WWIII . . . Let's Game Some Scenarios

[The Sage of Main Street]

Oh yea, totally. I don't begrudge the Russians a single thing. Everything they did to Germany when they advance into it was payback with interest.

I can't raise a pimple on sympathy's buttocks for The Germans. As far as I'm concerned, they got off easy.

However, with the exception of a very embarrassing defeat of Russia's Navy in 1905, The Russians didn't really have a beef with The Japanese.

In Russia, the Soviet Counter-Offensive Was Launched on December 7, 1941


The Soviets were seriously threatened by Japan before the military genius Marshal Zhukov crushed that thrust in Mongolia in September 1939. That's what made the Japanese concede that area and turn towards attacking the Philippines and Pearl Harbor.

The Cliff Notes history spewed by jurinalists that the Russian army east of Moscow was tied down because of fear of the Japanese is a typical war-reporting fantasy. Stalin held them back until the Germans had extended their supply lines to the breaking point because Stalin had faked a quick collapse of his entire western front. No academic is capable of seeing his obvious Draw Play, so take all their stupid analyses with a grain of salt.

 

[night_son]

Is it really?

The only time they've ever been used they undeniably saved more lives (both American and Japanese) than they took. They didn't leave Japan a nuclear wasteland. They didn't even manage to create a single kaiju.

The application of two, very small, nuclear weapons turned a fanatical military state into Capitalist pacifists practically over night.

As inventions go, there is a strong argument that nuclear weapons have done far more good than their reputation would imply.

Easy to say, from the lofty viewpoint of a world leader or a historian speaking in distant hindsight. However, would any one of the thousands of Japanese citizens vaporized by those two atomic weapons agree? What about parents who survived while their children were incinerated? Would those parents or other surviving family members of the dead agree with you? Would they celebrate the dropping of those bombs on their cities?

Always politicians and historians and history fanatics talk about how necessary it was, for the good of the omelet of civilization, to break a few thousand or million eggs. Not so good, however, when you or someone you love happens to be one of those eggs.

Interesting scenario.

What about Vietnam and Pakistan?

Do you really think China can defeat Australia in a few days? Will S Korea collapse so quickly?

Will China try to stay out of the war and just let Russia fight NATO?

Is it really?

Ike disagreed.

Countdown to Hiroshima, for July 30, 1945: Eisenhower Protests Use of A-Bomb Against Japan

July 30, 1945: Gen. Dwight D. Eisenhower, commander of U.S. troops in Europe, has visited President Truman in Germany, and would recall what happened in his memoir.

www.huffpost.com

Nuclear weapons may in the immediate future kill hundreds of millions so let’s hold off celebrating H-bombs.

My aim was to point out the potential for global outbreak of war on many unimagined fronts. Yes, Australia possesses a very small military, in comparison to China. I do believe South Korea would fall rather quickly, without direct materiel support from either Japan or the mainland US. Pakistan is a wild card. If the rest of the world goes to war, Pakistan could decide to get back at India, God forbid.

 

[fncceo]

However, would any one of the thousands of Japanese citizens vaporized by those two atomic weapons agree?

 

[FA_Q2]

Is it really?

The only time they've ever been used they undeniably saved more lives (both American and Japanese) than they took. They didn't leave Japan a nuclear wasteland. They didn't even manage to create a single kaiju.

The application of two, very small, nuclear weapons turned a fanatical military state into Capitalist pacifists practically over night.

As inventions go, there is a strong argument that nuclear weapons have done far more good than their reputation would imply.

It is rather odd how much focus is placed on those two bombs when they killed a fraction of the people and did a fraction of the damage that firebombing did.

Everyone forgets that for some reason.

 

[fncceo]

It is rather odd how much focus is placed on those two bombs when they killed a fraction of the people and did a fraction of the damage that firebombing did.

Everyone forgets that for some reason.

Emotional arguments are so much more fun than logical ones ... and you don't have to actually think about them.

 

[FA_Q2]

There is a widely held, bordering on universal, belief that once a nuclear weapon is used, the inevitable and unchangeable outcome will be a full-nuclear exchange.

There is, however, no historical fact or previous scenario on which to base this belief. Other than Hollywood movies and anti-nuclear propaganda, there has been little to no public discussion on precisely how a nuclear exchange would play out.

From a Cold-War high of over 70,000 nuclear warheads divided up amongst 8 different countries and two different political blocs. Today there are around 3,500 active nuclear weapons and approximately 10,000 in deep-storage (requiring significant preparation time) divided between 9 different countries and almost as many different political blocs.

If a nuclear weapons is used, by either The US, Russia, or another state, the belief that we have to get all our weapons launched before their weapons strike, is no longer valid -- if it really ever was. Neither side has the ability today of completely removing another country's retaliatory capability on a first strike. So, the incentive to shoot them or lose them no longer exists.

There are lots of links in the nuclear chains of command and there is every reason to believe that if a nuclear exchange ever did happen again, we would back down from the brink pretty quickly.

The smaller chance that a full strike would occur is counterbalanced by the possible massive damage they can do. It is feasible that they can practically end the human race.

Even if the chance that an exchange would happen is far below 1%, it still represents a massive risk considering the sizable consequences. At least global warming would no longer be an issue

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

Easy to say, from the lofty viewpoint of a world leader or a historian speaking in distant hindsight. However, would any one of the thousands of Japanese citizens vaporized by those two atomic weapons agree? What about parents who survived while their children were incinerated? Would those parents or other surviving family members of the dead agree with you? Would they celebrate the dropping of those bombs on their cities?

Always politicians and historians and history fanatics talk about how necessary it was, for the good of the omelet of civilization, to break a few thousand or million eggs. Not so good, however, when you or someone you love happens to be one of those eggs.

If Japan Had Won, Those Kids Would Have Grown Up to Enslave Our Kids When They Grew Up

Thanks for your GI-hating pity party opinion, Tokyo Rose.

 

[Thunderbird]

For Xi Jin Ping the smart move is to encourage Russian belligerence but stop short of a full alliance. Xi wants to bleed Russia and Ukraine and bog down NATO, but he doesn’t want to feel NATO’s wrath. Xi hopes the current war goes on forever and expands to include direct Russian-NATO contact. Let European/American civilization destroy itself in another fratricidal conflagration. Then the CCP can step forward and rule the planet.

The more traitorous elements of our ruling class are cheering him on!

 

[Thunderbird]

The CCP would love to see its rivals destroy each other. And Russia is a rival to the CCP despite their recent temporary friendliness. The CCP looks across its long disputed border with Russia and sees rich resources and few people.

One moment, please...

www.19fortyfive.com

 

[Mushroom]

The New Axis: Russia, China, Iran, North Korea, Mexico, Venezuela, various African and Middle Eastern nations

Wrong.

Mexico knows better than that. They even told Germany to go pound sand during WWI, they know if they tried to cross the US, we could destroy them with the National Guard form 2 states.

"Middle Eastern Nations? Try singular, Syria. The rest of the region are US allies, other than Palestine which you can simply ignore.

Venezuela? African nations? Ignore them also, they are of no real threat to the US or anybody but their neighbors.

North Korea? China? Same thing. They can threaten the US with nukes, just as Russia can. But none of those nations are a threat otherwise.

The biggest problem, is that you are for some reason completely ignoring the logistical capabilities of those nations. Yes, several can nuke the US or NATO. But other than that, they are of no real threat to any of them.

As far as I am concerned, this entire thread can simply be flushed.

 

[Silver Cat]

I'll go first.

Under unrelenting pressure from Western media and with non-stop pictures of murdered Ukrainian children spammed all over the net, and on the back of skyrocketing inflation at home, Biden cajoles the Congress to declare war on Russia. Both sides informally agree to keep the conflict conventional. World War three has begun. To be fair, Biden and NATO could alternatively decide to go for the no-fly zone over the Ukraine, forcing Putin to declare war on the US.

The Allies: the US, NATO, India, Australia, Japan, South Korea, the EU, various South American and African nations

The New Axis: Russia, China, Iran, North Korea, Mexico, Venezuela, various African and Middle Eastern nations

Front One: Europe

A given. Russia launches a mass invasion of Eastern Europe while simultaneously bombing major European capital cities. Meanwhile, in Eastern Europe NATO forward positions are overrun and driven back. The US mobilizes its major army divisions (which will take two months minimum to reach Europe) and rapid deploys the three Atlantic based Marine Expeditionary Units via the Mediterranean. Russian subs sink two of them. Several EU nations, such as Germany, France, Italy and Spain—with their capital cities in ruin—threaten to drop out of NATO if US main forces fail to reach Europe in a given period of time. Putin launches a second thrust across the Bering Sea to slow American main battle forces reaching Europe.

Front Two: The Pacific

China declares war on the US and NATO and immediately launches a two-pronged assault. Prong one: an invasion of Taiwan. Prong two: an invasion of Australia. While US forces are still in the deployment to Europe stage, China launches a third campaign moving full steam east across the Pacific capturing the Philippines, threatening Japan, and moving rapidly toward Hawaii, causing the US to split its forces between Europe and the newly opened and rapidly widening Pacific theatre.

Front Three: South Korea

North Korea declares war on both the United States and South Korea and invades the south, further slowing America's response to Europe and buying Putin even more time to gain footholds in Eastern Europe and beyond. The US must now attempt a rescue/reinforcement of its military forces stationed in South Korea, as Japan is busy dealing with Chinese forces threatening its homeland.

Front Four: Alaska/Canada

Russian forces drive deep into Alaska and split, with half driving southeast into Canada, and the other half pushing down through British Columbia, threatening the lower 48 United States. Putin knows this is a suicide mission, but he's counting on the operation further slowing America's main military forces from reaching Europe. Perhaps some Russian missile batteries make it far enough south to launch on US Western seaboard cities. Panic sweeps up and down the coast, from Washington State to California.

Front Five: Iran/Israel/Saudi Arabia

Iran declares war on Israel, Saudi Arabia and the United States and pushes north through Armenia and Georgia in an attempt to link up with Russian forces in the Ukraine. Iranian forces also drive southwest across the Persian Gulf, setting up a blockade of that vital waterway, sabotaging oil tankers as it goes, invades the UAE and then Saudi Arabia in an attempt to secure Saudi oil fields for the New Axis Powers. Simultaneously, Iran also fires missiles at Israel, who threatens to go nuclear.

Front Six: India/China

China opens up yet another front by invading India, who immediately threatens nuclear retaliation.

Front Seven: Australia/China

China takes Australia in a matter of days, all the while the Australians beg for US forces to come to their rescue.

Front Eight: The Atlantic

Hundreds of US ships begin to cross the Atlantic carrying the bulk of America's main battle tanks, IFVs, artillery pieces, ammo and other war materials all bound for Europe and the fight against Russia. Russian subs sink scores of them, forcing vital US Naval assets to escort these ship convoys and to also suffer losses to Russian subs.

WWIII: the halfway point:

Russia has driven deep into central Europe and has devastated several major European cities. If American main battle forces take much longer to reach the European theater, they won't have much of a foothold or safe port to land. Meanwhile, the Middle East is ablaze with Iran's war on Saudi Arabia and Israel, and the world economy is crashing with Iran's blockade of the Persian Gulf. South Korea has nearly fallen to the North, and tens of thousands of US soldiers are trapped in southern South Korea, their backs to the sea. Taiwan and Australia have fallen. Japan is on the brink of being overrun by Chinese landing forces. Alaska has fallen, Canada is on the brink and Russian forces are striking US West Coast cities with mobile missile batteries from British Columbia. The only question? Which side will be the first to resort to tactical nuclear missiles, the gateway to a full ICBM exchange?

According Russian doctrine it is obviously "large-scale war", and they definitely will use not only conventional+nuclear (as in a regional war) but "everything", including chemical and biological weapon.

 

[Thunderbird]

Wrong.

Mexico knows better than that. They even told Germany to go pound sand during WWI, they know if they tried to cross the US, we could destroy them with the National Guard form 2 states.

"Middle Eastern Nations? Try singular, Syria. The rest of the region are US allies, other than Palestine which you can simply ignore.

Venezuela? African nations? Ignore them also, they are of no real threat to the US or anybody but their neighbors.

North Korea? China? Same thing. They can threaten the US with nukes, just as Russia can. But none of those nations are a threat otherwise.

The biggest problem, is that you are for some reason completely ignoring the logistical capabilities of those nations. Yes, several can nuke the US or NATO. But other than that, they are of no real threat to any of them.

As far as I am concerned, this entire thread can simply be flushed.

China is no threat?

'We're going to lose fast': U.S. Air Force held a war game that started with a Chinese biological attack

Many foreign affairs and national security experts believe the global pandemic has accelerated trends that were already pushing the U.S. and China toward a potential confrontation.

news.yahoo.com

China's New Aircraft Carrier Killer Is World's Largest Air-Launched Missile - Naval News

H I Sutton sheds some light on China's latest aircraft carrier killer: The CH-AS-X-13 air-launched anti-ship ballistic missile (ASBM).

www.navalnews.com

 

[Mushroom]

China is no threat?

'We're going to lose fast': U.S. Air Force held a war game that started with a Chinese biological attack

Many foreign affairs and national security experts believe the global pandemic has accelerated trends that were already pushing the U.S. and China toward a potential confrontation.

news.yahoo.com

China's New Aircraft Carrier Killer Is World's Largest Air-Launched Missile - Naval News

H I Sutton sheds some light on China's latest aircraft carrier killer: The CH-AS-X-13 air-launched anti-ship ballistic missile (ASBM).

www.navalnews.com

Yes, China is no threat to the US, other than via nuclear weapons.

Tell me, in what way was the US "threatened" by that first exercise? Well, other than for some reason launching a massive biological warfare attack which in reality would have seen the US responding with nukes. What exactly does China have to attack the US with? Other than nukes, nothing.

And don't even get me started on the DF-21D. Been talking about that for over a decade now, an impossible weapon that has never been tested. Based on technology that does not exist. I am only surprised that China has not tried to say it requires vibranium and unobtanium in order to operate.

I discuss real world issues and threats, not silly fantasies. China is a threat, but only to their neighbors. To put it simply, they have no "legs". Their Navy is a joke, as is their logistics and ability to project force against anybody other than a neighbor.

 

[Circe]

I knew this was coming next, but I seriously thought that these bastards were going to do it in Asia.

Is that Soros guy not dead YET???

 

[Circe]

I maintain that Germany was on a long course of reconciliation but bashed themselves against some rocks along the way, an all too human tendency. I now find them as a nation/people intolerable and do not trust them at all.

To be specific, they became arrogant and prideful about how "healed" they were, took a look around and sniffed up about how hey! no one else was reconciling THEIR terrible past, like America, and look how evolved the wonderful Germans were. And the whole world better catch up with their super aware awareness of how their grandparents burned babies but are now so super evolved.

I'm not buying it and never bought it. Not sorry, Germany.

They are now arming up again: the plan is to spend the third most in the world for the military in Germany, according to The Economist this week.

We are going to be so, so sorry we woke that monster up ------ Germans will always be Germans. They started with the Sack of Rome and just kept on and on.

We have a really good reason for operating bases in Germany all these years after WWII. It's to keep the Germans down.

 

[Circe]

Even if the chance that an exchange would happen is far below 1%, it still represents a massive risk considering the sizable consequences. At least global warming would no longer be an issue

A real advantage to Nuclear Winter! Most of the people constantly whining about their imaginary Global Warming would be dead and so they'd finally, finally shut up.

 

[Circe]

It is rather odd how much focus is placed on those two bombs when they killed a fraction of the people and did a fraction of the damage that firebombing did.

Everyone forgets that for some reason.

Nukes are so much more interesting. And threaten us, not just people far away we don't know.

Missiles, artillery, bombs ---- been there, done that. The only glamour left is nukes.

Well, maybe bioweapons. Chemical weapons are pretty boring, I think. The blowback problem makes using either of those a problem. Nukes, however, damage only where they explode.

 

[Thunderbird]

Yes, China is no threat to the US, other than via nuclear weapons.

Tell me, in what way was the US "threatened" by that first exercise? Well, other than for some reason launching a massive biological warfare attack which in reality would have seen the US responding with nukes. What exactly does China have to attack the US with? Other than nukes, nothing.

And don't even get me started on the DF-21D. Been talking about that for over a decade now, an impossible weapon that has never been tested. Based on technology that does not exist. I am only surprised that China has not tried to say it requires vibranium and unobtanium in order to operate.

I discuss real world issues and threats, not silly fantasies. China is a threat, but only to their neighbors. To put it simply, they have no "legs". Their Navy is a joke, as is their logistics and ability to project force against anybody other than a neighbor.

 

[whitehall]

The unstated strategy during WW2 was to inflict casualties on innocent civilians until the maniacs surrendered. What do you think Heroshima/Nagasaki was about?

 

[Mushroom]

And what in the hell does any of that have to do with anything?

Yes, the DF-21 is a real missile, it has been in service for over 30 years now. I have no doubt they work.

But the fantasy that they can locate with a high degree of accuracy a single ship beyond the horizon, then launch a ballistic missile at it and have it hit a moving ship that is actually smaller than the CEP of said missile? That is plain silly. There is a reason why nobody else in the world has ever tried to do something like that, it is stupid. It would be like Ukraine firing an anti-tank missile straight up in the air, and somehow having it land on top of a specific tank 40 miles away on the other side of a forest and hills. With absolutely no idea exactly where it is prior to launching the missile. And only being able to guide it as it is falling. Somehow locating, targeting, and tracking the specific tank in the moments before it would hit the ground.

Yes, the missile works, not a big deal there, Germany was able to do that much back in WWII. But locate a carrier task force from over the horizon? With enough definition to identify the carrier itself? And have a ballistic missile that can somehow be "steered" onto the target that is only 75 meters across? Oh, with a CEP that is between 100-300 meters? For those that do not know, CEP is the equivalent of accuracy for a ballistic missile. And that means that 50% of missiles will hit within a 100-300 meter circle. On a target only 75 meters wide! With that kind of accuracy, even if everything works perfectly, maybe 1 in 4 would actually hit the target.

Oh, and there is this thing known as the AEGIS Combat System, that is damned good at hitting inbound ballistic missiles.

If you are going to try and debate military topics with me, you had better bring with you a lot more than just a few random pictures and a youtube video. Like, some actual facts, such as what I just gave. What you just posted has not a damned thing to do with anything I discussed. And only one is vaguely military, but it is complete BS.