YES, America CERTAINLY WAS FOUNDED as a CHRISTIAN NATION...

[Hollie]

The Constitution does not mention "God" or "Jehovah" or "Jesus" or "Messiah" or "Christ" at all. Religious test oaths are forever banned, though.

Hey Strawboy, it does mention Christ in Article VII in the date. And why not add capital LORD to your list above?? Oh yeah, cause then you'd be

WRONG!

Why not add Zeus. Either way, you are wrong. You just have this need to force your gods into the constitution when the FF's clearly did want that.

 

[Hollie]

Yo, idiot, that would have been at the same time they denied they were dogs and cats.

... or denied they were christian.

I sense your frustration. The answer you gave was reflexive and emotional. In that way it was not an answer at all, but an attempt to dismiss a legitimate question with ridicule rather than reason.

You obviously have a need to demand a standard of proof from others that you want to be excused from. I used your own standard of argumentation which now causes you to hurl childish insults.

How sad for you.

Only in your twisted dreams Hawly. You love to twist logic around and try to appear smart, thinking no one will notice. The reason your argument so very utterly stupid and ignorant is, the question of whether or not they are Jewish has never been raised. Jefferson, Franklin and Paine were not regularly seen attending Jewish synagogues or wearing Yamakah's, or lighting candles for Hanakah. You argument is an EPIC FAIL.

JakeStankey is claiming that even though they attended Christian churches and referenced Christian writings, that they weren't Christian. Logical4U, like me, sees the overwhelming evidence is that they behaved like Christians and engaged in Christian activities like going to church. Therefore, there would be no logical reason for them, as they exited the Christian church, to loudly proclaim, I am not a Muslim. But there would be a reason, if they truly were Deists, to clarify to those that saw them engaging in behaviors that would indicate they were, in fact, Christians, like quoting the NEW TESTAMENT of the Bible and praying, that one should not automatically assume because they walk like a duck and talk like a duck, that they could in fact, just be pretending to be a duck.

Franklin quoted the New Testament of the Bible, and not just the New Testament, he quoted Christ!!!! Muslims, Jews, Hindu's, and Buddhists don't recognize the New Testament as a sacred writing. Here is definitive proof Franklin was a Christian...

http://www.loc.gov/exhibits/religion/vc006642.jpg

"I have lived, sir, a long time, and, the longer I live, the more convincing proofs I see of this truth--that God governs in the affairs of men [This is not a Deist viewpoint]. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without his notice, is it probable that an empire can rise without his aid?

Jesus speaking in Matthew 10:

8 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

29 Are not two sparrows sold for a farthing? and one of them shall not fall on the ground without your Father.

30 But the very hairs of your head are all numbered.

31 Fear ye not therefore, ye are of more value than many sparrows.

32 Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven.

This is really not the forum for proselytizing.

 

[Hollie]

I have no need to provide that, you have chosen to prove you are an idiot, instead!

Show me a single reference to god in the constitution.

I'm sorry I have to say this. But you are just plain stupid. This has been done repeatedly even though you continue to deny it because you are insane.

It's really simple even for simpletons, show me where god is mentioned in the constitution.

I think it's insane to insisit that the constitution contains something it does not.

So show us where god is mentioned.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Yes, you bare false witness against me because you can't stand that you are easily refuted here.

However, I agree with you that you are nothing like the Christians of the first century or during the Founders day.

I am

The conservative Christian right makes some basic mistakes. Among them are: that they are anything like the Christians of the first century; that the Founders and their generation are anything like them today.

The basic heresy of the Christian evangelicals and fundamentalists of our day is their mistaken beliefs that they represent the will of the Christian God and that they reflect the will of the Founders.

The reflect neither.

false witness, again Jakey? Where did I ever say that "I" represented the will of the Lord? Where did I ever say that "I" reflected the will of the Founders? Where did "I" ever say that I was anything like the Christians of the first century or the Founders?

 

[JakeStarkey]

Still acting the communist, still denying the undeniable. No question exists that Washington refused to take communion. End of that story.

You, sir, are a liar and a deceiver. This is no link to a reliable website substantiating your claim Washington refused communion in any of your previous posts. Not the type of honor I would expect from a retired member of our armed forces. And it is quite weird you haven't denied that you are really Rugged Touch. This evasive technique wreaks of her modus operandi.

You don't get to call yet one more time for evidence that is posted above. Not going to happen.

Instead of being lazy and saying "above" somewhere. Why not give post numbers since no one remembers it and can't find them anywhere? It would add much more to your severely lacking credibility.

 

[JakeStarkey]

All of the points are proven. You merely deny because you can't do anything about them.

If your opinion counts as proof, then you can make these claims. However, when you get ready to come back to reality, you have proved nothing.

One, we have proven that Jefferson, Franklin, Allan, and Paine were not Christians.

Two, we have proven that the country was generally a nation of Christians then and now.

Three, we have proven that the FFs, deists and Christians, created a secular government.

Four, we have proven that logical4u is poorly educated on the subject.

Five, we have proven that UR is simply ignorant and mean-spirited about the subject.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Geez, what a whiner.

No discredited you being a cop. Your behavior here discredits your earlier behavior as a cop. You discredit yourself.

Even more predictable is your total and complete lack of grasp on English grammar. Just to let you know the word 'AND' is a conjunction, so the first thought should be read in the context of the second thought. Here is the quote, and then I will explain it to you in common English.



And now for the English you missed: "Someone else [that is, another poster, i.e. Craker pot, not Starkey] brought up the fact I was a cop AND discredited my service." I didn't say "someone else brought up the fact I was a cop originally.". The point was you brought it up AND you AND Stankey discredited it. Here are the post, in chronologically order [do I need to explain what that means, Crackerpot?]

Here's a clue, Officer Barbrady: Post 562 was before all that.

Why do I wasted my time here when folks can't even communicate in common English???

At least you're entertaining.

Omigosh you still don't get it, do you!!! Did you read what I just posted above? I cut and pasted a post from another website that said I was a retired cop FIRST. So the notion I was a cop came from me ORIGINALLY. You are missing the intent of the sentence above. You brought it up again AND discredited my service. Let me say it again slower. You are not taking the statement in the context of being used with the conjunction 'AND'. You are making an inference that isn't there, that I was claiming you brought it up first. I never claimed you brought up I was a cop originally!!!!! Still trying to figure out why I wasted my time with folks on a 3rd grade reading level.

 

[JakeStarkey]

You completely missed the point . . . again.

I can't even come close to the twisting and jumping being done by those trying to prove that this is not a Christian nation!

However, the question still stands: Which dating system prevalent in the 18th century would a person have to use if he did not want to refer to the Lord?

The question DOESN't still stand. I answered your question right here...

It's called the Gregorian calendar for your info and everyone in the 18th century would have used it.

Go back and read what I said so you can jump around and act all giddy that you have proven something. But the reality is you totally missed the original argument so this point, while true, is completely irrelevant.

 

[JakeStarkey]

You are simply ignorant. Go to lds.org and educated yourself. The come back and apologize for your pretentiousness. Of course they accept the Savior.

All of the conservative Christian denominations require a profession of faith.

This is not a requirement to become a Christian. I stated before, Mormons consider themselves Christians, and they DO NOT accept Jesus as their savior. Your argument, no matter how many times you repeat it, is based on a fallacious premise. Nice try, though.

Actually, . . . we have lots that he was not a Christian.

You have none that he accepted Jesus as his savior.

Got it. You have no evidence that states Jefferson was an atheist or a deist from Jefferson.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Yup, true. My family businesses do quite well, and, yes, I was in the military for 12 years.

I am a solid Republican who can research, write, and think critically.

Riiiiight. And you are a wealthy businessman too. And a soldier as well.

 

[JakeStarkey]

This was given above. Go look for it. Credible evidence.

Whereas, you have none.

You are acting like a communist again, claiming I bare false witness when in fact you are the one doing that.

You gave a list of FF that you claim were not Christian. When asked for evidence where these FF declared this about themselves, you could not deliver. In fact, we are STILL waiting for that evidence.

And don't forget the evidence that Washington refused communion. I've been waiting on that too even though Stankey keeps lying and saying he has provided evidence. I seriously think he doesn't know what he is posting and he is getting confused on what you and I have posted.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Got it. You have nothing. There is not a single reference to God in the Constitution. Next.

It's true. There is not a single reference to god in the constitution.

Speaking of frustation, Hawly does this on purpose. This is about the point even a peaceful man would grab her by the back of the neck and press her face against the glass case over Article VII of the Constitution in the National Archives. Hawly, with her nose pressed firmly over the date reference to Christ, would merely close her eyes and repeat it over and over again, "There is no reference to God in the Constitution. There is no reference to God in the Constitution".

Arguing with Hollie is an exercise in absolute futility. She would continue to deny gravity, even as she was falling from a building to her death. I can just hear her, "It's true. Gravity isn't real."

Hawly, the space below is where you now resort to ad hominem attacks as usual.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Show me where it says "Christ". Because that is a legal attestation on all documents. Your silly reasoning why have us think that all folks are Christian because they attested to documents inm that way.

The Constitution does not mention "God" or "Jehovah" or "Jesus" or "Messiah" or "Christ" at all. Religious test oaths are forever banned, though.

Hey Strawboy, it does mention Christ in Article VII in the date. And why not add capital LORD to your list above?? Oh yeah, cause then you'd be

WRONG!

 

[JakeStarkey]

No one cares what you are. You are still a right wing heretic.

The conservative Christian right makes some basic mistakes. Among them are: that they are anything like the Christians of the first century; that the Founders and their generation are anything like them today.

The basic heresy of the Christian evangelicals and fundamentalists of our day is their mistaken beliefs that they represent the will of the Christian God and that they reflect the will of the Founders.

The reflect neither.

Oh poor Stankey. Once again you ASSume things which aren't true and prejudicially stereotype people. I am not an evangelical or a fundamentalist. I go to a non-denominational seeker church. I follow the Bible, not the book of Mormon like you.

 

[JakeStarkey]

No, you haven't.

I have no need to provide that, you have chosen to prove you are an idiot, instead!

Show me a single reference to god in the constitution.

I'm sorry I have to say this. But you are just plain stupid. This has been done repeatedly even though you continue to deny it because you are insane.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Hollie kicked your ass on this. Your reasoning is fallacious, and she demonstrated it. I understand your frustration.

Yo, idiot, that would have been at the same time they denied they were dogs and cats.

... or denied they were christian.

I sense your frustration. The answer you gave was reflexive and emotional. In that way it was not an answer at all, but an attempt to dismiss a legitimate question with ridicule rather than reason.

You obviously have a need to demand a standard of proof from others that you want to be excused from. I used your own standard of argumentation which now causes you to hurl childish insults.

How sad for you.

Only in your twisted dreams Hawly. You love to twist logic around and try to appear smart, thinking no one will notice. The reason your argument so very utterly stupid and ignorant is, the question of whether or not they are Jewish has never been raised. Jefferson, Franklin and Paine were not regularly seen attending Jewish synagogues or wearing Yamakah's, or lighting candles for Hanakah. You argument is an EPIC FAIL.

JakeStankey is claiming that even though they attended Christian churches and referenced Christian writings, that they weren't Christian. Logical4U, like me, sees the overwhelming evidence is that they behaved like Christians and engaged in Christian activities like going to church. Therefore, there would be no logical reason for them, as they exited the Christian church, to loudly proclaim, I am not a Muslim. But there would be a reason, if they truly were Deists, to clarify to those that saw them engaging in behaviors that would indicate they were, in fact, Christians, like quoting the NEW TESTAMENT of the Bible and praying, that one should not automatically assume because they walk like a duck and talk like a duck, that they could in fact, just be pretending to be a duck.

Franklin quoted the New Testament of the Bible, and not just the New Testament, he quoted Christ!!!! Muslims, Jews, Hindu's, and Buddhists don't recognize the New Testament as a sacred writing. Here is definitive proof Franklin was a Christian...

http://www.loc.gov/exhibits/religion/vc006642.jpg

"I have lived, sir, a long time, and, the longer I live, the more convincing proofs I see of this truth--that God governs in the affairs of men [This is not a Deist viewpoint]. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without his notice, is it probable that an empire can rise without his aid?

Jesus speaking in Matthew 10:

8 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

29 Are not two sparrows sold for a farthing? and one of them shall not fall on the ground without your Father.

30 But the very hairs of your head are all numbered.

31 Fear ye not therefore, ye are of more value than many sparrows.

32 Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Show us where Franklin, Jefferson, Paine, and Allan professed themselves unto the Savior.

... or denied they were christian.

I sense your frustration. The answer you gave was reflexive and emotional. In that way it was not an answer at all, but an attempt to dismiss a legitimate question with ridicule rather than reason.

You obviously have a need to demand a standard of proof from others that you want to be excused from. I used your own standard of argumentation which now causes you to hurl childish insults.

How sad for you.

Only in your twisted dreams Hawly. You love to twist logic around and try to appear smart, thinking no one will notice. The reason your argument so very utterly stupid and ignorant is, the question of whether or not they are Jewish has never been raised. Jefferson, Franklin and Paine were not regularly seen attending Jewish synagogues or wearing Yamakah's, or lighting candles for Hanakah. You argument is an EPIC FAIL.

JakeStankey is claiming that even though they attended Christian churches and referenced Christian writings, that they weren't Christian. Logical4U, like me, sees the overwhelming evidence is that they behaved like Christians and engaged in Christian activities like going to church. Therefore, there would be no logical reason for them, as they exited the Christian church, to loudly proclaim, I am not a Muslim. But there would be a reason, if they truly were Deists, to clarify to those that saw them engaging in behaviors that would indicate they were, in fact, Christians, like quoting the NEW TESTAMENT of the Bible and praying, that one should not automatically assume because they walk like a duck and talk like a duck, that they could in fact, just be pretending to be a duck.

Franklin quoted the New Testament of the Bible, and not just the New Testament, he quoted Christ!!!! Muslims, Jews, Hindu's, and Buddhists don't recognize the New Testament as a sacred writing. Here is definitive proof Franklin was a Christian...

http://www.loc.gov/exhibits/religion/vc006642.jpg

"I have lived, sir, a long time, and, the longer I live, the more convincing proofs I see of this truth--that God governs in the affairs of men [This is not a Deist viewpoint]. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without his notice, is it probable that an empire can rise without his aid?

Jesus speaking in Matthew 10:

8 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

29 Are not two sparrows sold for a farthing? and one of them shall not fall on the ground without your Father.

30 But the very hairs of your head are all numbered.

31 Fear ye not therefore, ye are of more value than many sparrows.

32 Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven.

This is really not the forum for proselytizing.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Not the point really, and SCOTUS disagrees with you.

Commentary from the Library of Congress Section on Religion and the Federal Government...

That religion was not otherwise addressed in the Constitution did not make it an "irreligious" document any more than the Articles of Confederation was an "irreligious" document. The Constitution dealt with the church precisely as the Articles had, thereby maintaining, at the national level, the religious status quo. In neither document did the people yield any explicit power to act in the field of religion. But the absence of expressed powers did not prevent either the Continental-Confederation Congress or the Congress under the Constitution from sponsoring a program to support general, nonsectarian religion.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Fallacious arguing and you fail.

It's true. There is not a single reference to god in the constitution.

Speaking of frustation, Hawly does this on purpose. This is about the point even a peaceful man would grab her by the back of the neck and press her face against the glass case over Article VII of the Constitution in the National Archives. Hawly, with her nose pressed firmly over the date reference to Christ, would merely close her eyes and repeat it over and over again, "There is no reference to God in the Constitution. There is no reference to God in the Constitution".

Arguing with Hollie is an exercise in absolute futility. She would continue to deny gravity, even as she was falling from a building to her death. I can just hear her, "It's true. Gravity isn't real."

Hawly, the space below is where you now resort to ad hominem attacks as usual.

 

[UltimateReality]

... or denied they were christian.

I sense your frustration. The answer you gave was reflexive and emotional. In that way it was not an answer at all, but an attempt to dismiss a legitimate question with ridicule rather than reason.

You obviously have a need to demand a standard of proof from others that you want to be excused from. I used your own standard of argumentation which now causes you to hurl childish insults.

How sad for you.

Only in your twisted dreams Hawly. You love to twist logic around and try to appear smart, thinking no one will notice. The reason your argument so very utterly stupid and ignorant is, the question of whether or not they are Jewish has never been raised. Jefferson, Franklin and Paine were not regularly seen attending Jewish synagogues or wearing Yamakah's, or lighting candles for Hanakah. You argument is an EPIC FAIL.

JakeStankey is claiming that even though they attended Christian churches and referenced Christian writings, that they weren't Christian. Logical4U, like me, sees the overwhelming evidence is that they behaved like Christians and engaged in Christian activities like going to church. Therefore, there would be no logical reason for them, as they exited the Christian church, to loudly proclaim, I am not a Muslim. But there would be a reason, if they truly were Deists, to clarify to those that saw them engaging in behaviors that would indicate they were, in fact, Christians, like quoting the NEW TESTAMENT of the Bible and praying, that one should not automatically assume because they walk like a duck and talk like a duck, that they could in fact, just be pretending to be a duck.

Franklin quoted the New Testament of the Bible, and not just the New Testament, he quoted Christ!!!! Muslims, Jews, Hindu's, and Buddhists don't recognize the New Testament as a sacred writing. Here is definitive proof Franklin was a Christian...

http://www.loc.gov/exhibits/religion/vc006642.jpg

"I have lived, sir, a long time, and, the longer I live, the more convincing proofs I see of this truth--that God governs in the affairs of men [This is not a Deist viewpoint]. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without his notice, is it probable that an empire can rise without his aid?

Jesus speaking in Matthew 10:

8 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

29 Are not two sparrows sold for a farthing? and one of them shall not fall on the ground without your Father.

30 But the very hairs of your head are all numbered.

31 Fear ye not therefore, ye are of more value than many sparrows.

32 Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven.

This is really not the forum for proselytizing.

That was proof, not proselytizing. But while were are at it, you can go ahead stop proselytizing your materialist religion.