1,748 Days since the Declaration Of "MISSION ACCOMPLISHED"

[AllieBaba]

The consideration that the degree might be an online one was interesting...and caused me to think perhaps it's possible that a 12-year-old obtained one?

Calling someone a murderer can be a statement of fact...if it has been proven. Otherwise it is still an opinion. Unless, of course, you witnessed the murder.

So saying "OJ is a murderer" is simply an opinion, which may or may not be the truth.
I find myself concerned that the law has fallen into the hands of precocious, possibly unmonitored children who don't have a firm grasp on the difference between opinion and truth.

 

[Dr Grump]

What you're missing is the part where no one changed the definition of any word(s).

Yeah, you did. You have now decided that Kennedy is guilty of murder. Therefore you have changed the definition because his actions never met the definition...thanks for playing!

 

[Dr Grump]

The consideration that the degree might be an online one was interesting...and caused me to think perhaps it's possible that a 12-year-old obtained one?

Calling someone a murderer can be a statement of fact...if it has been proven. Otherwise it is still an opinion. Unless, of course, you witnessed the murder.

So saying "OJ is a murderer" is simply an opinion, which may or may not be the truth.
I find myself concerned that the law has fallen into the hands of precocious, possibly unmonitored children who don't have a firm grasp on the difference between opinion and truth.

Whether you like it or not OJ was not a murderer. Under the criminal justice system it has been proven a fact, under the civil one, not. The quirks of law.

I find it concerning that those who DON'T put their bona fides on the table feel right to criticise those who have.Care to tell us your education, or are you one of those hide-behind-the-keyboard types who can throw barbs but not take them?

 

[AllieBaba]

Oh now you've done it. Challenge her bonafides and stand by for a whopper of a tantrum. Though probably privately. And possibly not from her, but from Shogun....

 

[Dr Grump]

Oh now you've done it. Challenge her bonafides and stand by for a whopper of a tantrum. Though probably privately. And possibly not from her, but from Shogun....

Not at all. Nothing to do with a trantrum or even close. Just wondering why you think you have the right to call into question somebody's bonafides when you are unwilling to put yours on the line. Comes down to credibility. See, Jill is a lawyer - a very good one in fact - for all I know you may be some Superior Court Judge, in which case your opinion would carry some weight. Then again, your greatest achievement in life might be picking up trash on the highways and byways of rural America, which would then lend me pause for thought. You are not the first nor will you be the last to criticise her. She has never claimed to be a criminal lawyer, or even an expert on the subject. I have noted over the years though, that as soon as she makes a good point and gets under another debater's skin, her bonafides come into question. Typical tactic of somebody who 1) hates her political ideology 2) is redundant in their argument or lack thereof. I think you fall into both categories. Now fess up Allie - your occupation is:______________

 

[AllieBaba]

Well, I really misread your comment, but I'll respond to your obnoxious post, anyway.

I have put my bonafides on the table. I don't need to in every single monotonous thread where Jillian gets involved in which her devotees are running around behind her, praising her to the heavens above. If only I had a fan club which would save me the bother of actually having to lie, myself, about my "bonafides", and which could effectively hijack any conversation where I might be getting in a little over my head.

But I don't. There's just little old me. I don't need my bonafides recited to make a point.

And besides, the idea of a demonic 12-year-old attorney is favorable compared to the picture I usually have in my mind of people who sit on their bonafides.

 

[Dr Grump]

Well, I really misread your comment, but I'll respond to your obnoxious post, anyway.

I have put my bonafides on the table. I don't need to in every single monotonous thread where Jillian gets involved in which her devotees are running around behind her, praising her to the heavens above. If only I had a fan club which would save me the bother of actually having to lie, myself, about my "bonafides", and which could effectively hijack any conversation where I might be getting in a little over my head.

But I don't. There's just little old me. I don't need my bonafides recited to make a point.

And besides, the idea of a demonic 12-year-old attorney is favorable compared to the picture I usually have in my mind of people who sit on their bonafides.

Well mayhap you shouldn't start out obnoxious in the first place and then the likes of myself would not respond in kind.

Believe it or not I have not read every single post of yours, so I have no idea what you do for a living.

Jillian has no "devotees" at all. She has friends. I look out for my friends. You? If you don't want a thread to get "hijacked" or go off topic, stop making silly, asinine, personal statements. Take responsibility for your own actions instead of trying to fob them off on someone else.

Jillian never sits on her bonafides, just gets a reaction when somebody calls them into question. If you don't want the subject brought up, don't instigate it and then bitch about it. Simple really...

 

[RetiredGySgt]

if someone states that, they are wrong. Call them whay you like.

If they offer the opinion that they think he killed them, that is perfectly appropriate.

Ohh I see, so if i say Kennedy is a murderer I MUST add "in my opinion"... I will remember that ever time you leftwing morons make idiotic statements.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Cool. So now happy means sad, jump means walk and drive means flyi]. I love this new game where words no longer mean what they are defined in the dictionary!

Ask Maineman he is real good at twisting what words do and do not mean depending on what ever idiotic opinion he is supporting.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Ah, that's right you Yanks have different degrees of murder. We have manslaughter and murder. To be fair, under our definition of murder, there is a degree of recklessness that can be attached to the Mens Rea aspect - ie: you can't discharge a full loaded shotgun in somebody's face and claim it was not your intention to kill them when it is obvious to any reasonable person that doing such an action will lead to instant death. That aside can you give me the legal definition of Depraved and Indifference. IOW, did he reach those definitions to the degree you mentioned? I believe not. I think his reaction was typical of any body in that situation, and I doubt he felt indifferent about the demise of Mary-Jo, or that his actions were depraved. He is guilty of manslaughter at best.

He made a conscious decision to hide out until no longer drunk, to not inform anyone she was at the bottom of the body of water he drove her into and he made no effort until sober to tell anyone except his family what happened. THAT is intent.

It is NOT normal for people that kill others to simply go home and sleep off a drunk before telling the cops. Well I guess people that do not care about others lives might find that reasonable.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Whether you like it or not OJ was not a murderer. Under the criminal justice system it has been proven a fact, under the civil one, not. The quirks of law.

I find it concerning that those who DON'T put their bona fides on the table feel right to criticise those who have.Care to tell us your education, or are you one of those hide-behind-the-keyboard types who can throw barbs but not take them?

Jillian is a poor attorney or so biased by politics to be ineffective at some things. She has in the past made some of the most idiotic statements for certified lawyer to ever utter as to defy she has a degree, much less passed the bar. All to do with politics. She has a very poor understanding of the very document that gives her any power, the Constitution , as to make one wonder if her classes on the law were given in some Banana Republic. Or to make one wonder if Law even teaches the intent and purpose and powers of the Document.

 

[Dr Grump]

Jillian is a poor attorney or so biased by politics to be ineffective at some things. She has in the past made some of the most idiotic statements for certified lawyer to ever utter as to defy she has a degree, much less passed the bar. All to do with politics. She has a very poor understanding of the very document that gives her any power, the Constitution , as to make one wonder if her classes on the law were given in some Banana Republic. Or to make one wonder if Law even teaches the intent and purpose and powers of the Document.

And yet she has successfully practised her chosen career for the best part of 20 years..(shrug)..

what's that about biased again? Unlike, say, you?

 

[AllieBaba]

Well mayhap you shouldn't start out obnoxious in the first place and then the likes of myself would not respond in kind.

Believe it or not I have not read every single post of yours, so I have no idea what your do for a living.

Jillian has no "devotees" at all. She has friends. I look out for my friends. You? If you don't want a thread to get "hijacked" or go off topic, stop making silly, asinine, personal statements. Take responsibility for your own actions instead of trying to fob them off on someone else.

Jillian never sits on her bonafides, just gets a reaction when somebody calls them into question. If you don't want the subject brought up, don't instigate it and then bitch about it. Simple really...

Actually, I was responding, not instigating.

 

[AllieBaba]

And yet she has successfully practised her chosen career for the best part of 20 years..(shrug)..

what's that about biased again? Unlike, say, you?

Yes, well, says you.

Not that it matters. There are some very bad attorneys out there who claim success.

 

[Dr Grump]

Actually, I was responding, not instigating.

What you did was called an ad hominem...one of the lowest forms of debate. You were not responding to an ad hominem from her. The "12-year-old" comment was all your own, and instigated by you. Take that sentence and the last one out, and you indeed, were just responding.

 

[Alpha1]

Not at all. Nothing to do with a trantrum or even close. Just wondering why you think you have the right to call into question somebody's bonafides when you are unwilling to put yours on the line. Comes down to credibility. See, Jill is a lawyer - a very good one in fact - for all I know you may be some Superior Court Judge, in which case your opinion would carry some weight. Then again, your greatest achievement in life might be picking up trash on the highways and byways of rural America, which would then lend me pause for thought. You are not the first nor will you be the last to criticise her. She has never claimed to be a criminal lawyer, or even an expert on the subject. I have noted over the years though, that as soon as she makes a good point and gets under another debater's skin, her bonafides come into question. Typical tactic of somebody who 1) hates her political ideology 2) is redundant in their argument or lack thereof. I think you fall into both categories. Now fess up Allie - your occupation is:______________

See, Jill is a lawyer - a very good one in fact -
Now thats an opinion with no proof to back it up
-------------------------
jillian jillian is online now
1-20-09

And since its an opinion, I dont have to provide a shred of evidence to support it.
No. That isn't true. Opinions don't need evidence. You know, like it's my opinion that Bush is an incompetent moron.

Legally defined term: murder: "kill intentionally and with premeditation".

See how easy that is.

And if you can't see the difference, then it's *my* opinion that you're too stupid to find your butt with both hands.
=============================================================================

Ahhhh yes...its so easy....
But it seems our learned lawyer (and political hack), ignores murder in the second degree.... a legally defined term also...

Second-degree murder is ordinarily defined as 1) an intentional killing that is not premeditated or planned, nor committed in a reasonable "heat of passion" or (2) a killing caused by dangerous conduct and the offender's obvious lack of concern for human life. Second-degree murder may best be viewed as the middle ground between first-degree murder and voluntary manslaughter.
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Not very smart for a learned lawyer.....

And what do we know about Kennedy and Mary Jo....

1. they were at a party
2. there was drinking at the party,( it wouldn't take much of an investigation to ask if Kennedy had a few)....but there was no investigation really...
3. Kennedy drove off a bridge
4. Kennedy escaped from a submerged car..and poor Mary Jo did not...
5. Kennedy left the scene and went home...failed to report the accident for several hours (surely enough to sober up)
6. Mary Jo died as a result of the accident.....
7. Kennedy didn't even have a valid drivers license....

so as a juror,would you just ignore the facts....?

No, better to not even bring charges against Kennedy...because there is no freekin' way he is not guilty of second degree murder.....hes a hero in Mass. and Democrat, and no one will make a big deal if we all just forget about the whole thing....and thats what happened....

No Media uproar....
No investigation....
Cops just struck deaf and dumb
Nothing from the Guests at party to speak of
Even Mary Jo's parents so understanding(such loyal Democrats)...as if to say "Well, shit happens"....(that my biggest disappointment...)
----------------------
Under the influence
Leaves the scene of fatal accident
Fails to report said accident for several hours
No valid license
----------------------
If this were you or I,(or a Republican), you would kiss your ass good-by....you would be in a fuckin' cell for the forseeable future....

But Kenney....No investigation, no charges, no nothing.....I don't even think he got a citation for having no valid license....

So much for fair and equal treatment under the law.....


Try this if you give a rats ass......http://www.ytedk.com/chapter1.htm#alcohol.....

 

[Dr Grump]

Yes, well, says you.

Not that it matters. There are some very bad attorneys out there who claim success.

There are? Name them...

 

[Dr Grump]

See, Jill is a lawyer - a very good one in fact -
Now thats an opinion with no proof to back it up....

Care to point out how many crappy lawyers manage to practice for 20 years plus? You ever heard of Bruce Cutler? Gotti's lawyer? Morals of a sewer rat and a snakeoil salesman, but he got Gotti off three times. Great lawyer whether you like him or not. Same with Cochrane.

Notwithstanding that, I am not comparing Jillian to them, more your mindset. You don't like her politics, so you attack her personally. Weak, shallow and pathetic all rolled into one. Now, we all know that RetiredGunny is a failed soldier and engineer, so what's your occupation Alpha? Let's dissect it shall we....ditto Allie if she ever shows up again...

 

[Alpha1]

Don't ignore my post Grump......or your very good lawyer for that matter....

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Care to point out how many crappy lawyers manage to practice for 20 years plus? You ever heard of Bruce Cutler? Gotti's lawyer? Morals of a sewer rat and a snakeoil salesman, but he got Gotti off three times. Great lawyer whether you like him or not. Same with Cochrane.

Notwithstanding that, I am not comparing Jillian to them, more your mindset. You don't like her politics, so you attack her personally. Weak, shallow and pathetic all rolled into one. Now, we all know that RetiredGunny is a failed soldier and engineer, so what's your occupation Alpha? Let's dissect it shall we....ditto Allie if she ever shows up again...

Nice attempt to change the subject.