100,000 people shot in the US per year! Good guy saving lives?

[KissMy]

It's not even the same thing. Polls asking 100,000 people if they like Trump / America, etc is shown in percentages of YES vs NO like 33% vs 66%. At least 10% on each side LIE canceling most of the liars out, creating a ~3% error margin.

Can you name me one poll that ever polled anywhere near 100,000 people?

Poll people who had a gun pulled on them & most will say it was unjustified. Nearly every prisoner claim they are innocent. Just like nearly everyone who pulls a gun says it was justified.

If it's not justified, then it's a criminal offense and should be reported. As my earlier post showed, CCW holders are the most law abiding citizens in this country. Why would any law abiding citizen pull a gun on anybody other than self-defense?

There are only two reasons to use a gun: to attack somebody or to defend yourself or others.

A large percent of CCW holders on this message board say they lie to pollsters. Less than 1% ever actually pulled a gun on someone in self defense. So very few could have actually pulled a gun on someone in self defense & said they did not.

In my 52 year life I have personally witnessed ~10 people other than police or suicides, pull a gun on someone and none were justified self defense.

Hmmm, well I'm older than you and never personally seen a person pull a gun on anybody, and hell, I live in the eastern suburbs of Cleveland.

But if you want documented cases of CCW holders defending themselves, Google is loaded with them. These stories are barely locally reported yet alone national, so you don't know about them. Over here, they report the crime, but only one or two sentences within the story of the victim using a gun to stop the attack. After we passed the law, yes, it was big news when it happened. But now it happens so often it's barely worth reporting.

People have this imaginary concept that if we made guns illegal in this country, the criminal would just give his up. Unfortunately, that's fantasy land. The criminal will never give up his illegal firearm.

I live work & play in St. Louis where there are 20 times more shootings than where you live. I have also been a bouncer more exposed to them than you & traveled the city doing tech service for most companies.. I CCW & have over 50 times more real live gun experience than you have. Actually you have zero experience & are clueless.

 

[Crixus]

100,000 people are shot in the USA every year!

How many were shot by a good guy with a gun saving lives?

The only good guys / hero's are the the people saving more & more lives of gunshot victims thereby reducing the murder rate. Gee I wonder why medical cost keep rising?

I’ll beat your stat with falls from ladders and junk food. Neither of which are regulated by the government. I’ll still your numbers with crime stats on flat head screw drugs vets and hammers, murder and assault rates with those two non guns far outweigh crimes committed with guns.

 

[KissMy]

100,000 people are shot in the USA every year!

How many were shot by a good guy with a gun saving lives?

The only good guys / hero's are the the people saving more & more lives of gunshot victims thereby reducing the murder rate. Gee I wonder why medical cost keep rising?

I’ll beat your stat with falls from ladders and junk food. Neither of which are regulated by the government. I’ll still your numbers with crime stats on flat head screw drugs vets and hammers, murder and assault rates with those two non guns far outweigh crimes committed with guns.

Do you see me claiming screwdrivers, ladders & junk food lower crime? Neither do guns! Forcing police to arrest violent criminals & preventing violent people from getting guns lowers crime. But instead police write tickets for profit & leave criminals alone. That way they get voters to pay more for policing.

Trump filled jails with undocumented workers, so we have no more room for violent criminals. So now that we have no room in jails, St. Louis Mayor Lyda Krewson crime solutions "We can't arrest our way out of this situation. We can't incarcerate our way out of this situation. We are increasing funding for recreation and job programs." She told citizens to bring in guns, in exchange, receive grocery store gift certificates. St. Louis has the most police per person, yet they don't catch criminals. So now we have the most crime per person.

 

[Crixus]

100,000 people are shot in the USA every year!

How many were shot by a good guy with a gun saving lives?

The only good guys / hero's are the the people saving more & more lives of gunshot victims thereby reducing the murder rate. Gee I wonder why medical cost keep rising?

I’ll beat your stat with falls from ladders and junk food. Neither of which are regulated by the government. I’ll still your numbers with crime stats on flat head screw drugs vets and hammers, murder and assault rates with those two non guns far outweigh crimes committed with guns.

Do you see me claiming screwdrivers, ladders & junk food lower crime? Neither do guns! Forcing police to arrest violent criminals & preventing violent people from getting guns lowers crime. But instead police write tickets for profit & leave criminals alone. That way they get voters to pay more for policing.

Trump filled jails with undocumented workers, so we have no more room for violent criminals. So now that we have no room in jails, St. Louis Mayor Lyda Krewson crime solutions "We can't arrest our way out of this situation. We can't incarcerate our way out of this situation. We are increasing funding for recreation and job programs." She told citizens to bring in guns, in exchange, receive grocery store gift certificates. St. Louis has the most police per person, yet they don't catch criminals. So now we have the most crime per person.

Yet they are used to commit crimes all the time. By your logic we would be more safe without them.

 

[2aguy]

100,000 people are shot in the USA every year!

How many were shot by a good guy with a gun saving lives?

The only good guys / hero's are the the people saving more & more lives of gunshot victims thereby reducing the murder rate. Gee I wonder why medical cost keep rising?

I’ll beat your stat with falls from ladders and junk food. Neither of which are regulated by the government. I’ll still your numbers with crime stats on flat head screw drugs vets and hammers, murder and assault rates with those two non guns far outweigh crimes committed with guns.

Do you see me claiming screwdrivers, ladders & junk food lower crime? Neither do guns! Forcing police to arrest violent criminals & preventing violent people from getting guns lowers crime. But instead police write tickets for profit & leave criminals alone. That way they get voters to pay more for policing.

Trump filled jails with undocumented workers, so we have no more room for violent criminals. So now that we have no room in jails, St. Louis Mayor Lyda Krewson crime solutions "We can't arrest our way out of this situation. We can't incarcerate our way out of this situation. We are increasing funding for recreation and job programs." She told citizens to bring in guns, in exchange, receive grocery store gift certificates. St. Louis has the most police per person, yet they don't catch criminals. So now we have the most crime per person.

And yet...we have this.....

We went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 16.3 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2017...guess what happened...
-- gun murder down 49%

--gun crime down 75%

--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.

 

[2aguy]

100,000 people are shot in the USA every year!

How many were shot by a good guy with a gun saving lives?

The only good guys / hero's are the the people saving more & more lives of gunshot victims thereby reducing the murder rate. Gee I wonder why medical cost keep rising?

I’ll beat your stat with falls from ladders and junk food. Neither of which are regulated by the government. I’ll still your numbers with crime stats on flat head screw drugs vets and hammers, murder and assault rates with those two non guns far outweigh crimes committed with guns.

Do you see me claiming screwdrivers, ladders & junk food lower crime? Neither do guns! Forcing police to arrest violent criminals & preventing violent people from getting guns lowers crime. But instead police write tickets for profit & leave criminals alone. That way they get voters to pay more for policing.

Trump filled jails with undocumented workers, so we have no more room for violent criminals. So now that we have no room in jails, St. Louis Mayor Lyda Krewson crime solutions "We can't arrest our way out of this situation. We can't incarcerate our way out of this situation. We are increasing funding for recreation and job programs." She told citizens to bring in guns, in exchange, receive grocery store gift certificates. St. Louis has the most police per person, yet they don't catch criminals. So now we have the most crime per person.

And we have this....

http://crimeresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/Bartley-Cohen-Economic-Inquiry-1998.pdf


The Effect of Concealed Weapons Laws: An Extreme Bound Analysis by William Alan Bartley and Mark A Cohen, published in Economic Inquiry, April 1998 (Copy available here)

.....we find strong support for the hypothesis that the right-to-carry laws are associated with a decrease in the trend in violent crime rates.....

Paper........CCW does not increase police deaths...

http://crimeresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/Mustard-JLE-Polic-Deaths-Gun-Control.pdf

This paper uses state-level data from 1984–96 to examine how right-to-carry laws and waiting periods affect the felonious deaths of police. Some people oppose concealed weapons carry laws because they believe these laws jeopardize law enforcement officials, who risk their lives to protect the citizenry. This paper strongly rejects this contention. States that allowed law-abiding citizens to carry concealed weapons had a slightly higher likelihood of having a felonious police death and slightly higher police death rates prior to the law. After enactment of the right-to-carry laws, states exhibit a reduced likelihood of having a felonious police death rate and slightly lower rates of police deaths. States that implement waiting periods have slightly lower felonious police death rates both before and after the law. Allowing law-abiding citizens to carry concealed weapons does not endanger the lives of officers and may help reduce their risk of being killed

========

http://johnrlott.tripod.com/tideman.pdf


Does the Right to Carry Concealed Handguns Deter Countable Crimes? Only a Count Analysis Can Say By FLORENZ PLASSMANN AND T. NICOLAUS TIDEMAN, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

However, for all three crime categories the levels in years 2 and 3 after adoption of a right-to-carry law are significantly below the levels in the years before the adoption of the law, which suggests that there is generally a deterrent effect and that it takes about 1 year for this effect to emerge.

=======

http://www.journals.uchicago.edu/doi/abs/10.1086/323313

Testing for the Effects of Concealed Weapons Laws: Specification Errors and Robustness*




Carlisle E. Moody
College of William and Mary
Overall, right‐to‐carry concealed weapons laws tend to reduce violent crime. The effect on property crime is more uncertain. I find evidence that these laws also reduce burglary.
====
http://crimeresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/Helland-Tabarrok-Placebo-Laws.pdf
Using Placebo Laws to Test “More Guns, Less Crime”∗ Eric Helland and Alexander Tabarrok

We also find, however, that the cross equation restrictions implied by the Lott-Mustard theory are supported.
-----
Surprisingly, therefore, we conclude that there is considerable support for the hypothesis that shall-issue laws cause criminals to substitute away from crimes against persons and towards crimes against property.
===========
http://johnrlott.tripod.com/Maltz.pdf


Right-to-Carry Concealed Weapon Laws and Homicide in Large U.S. Counties: The Effect on Weapon Types, Victim Characteristics, and Victim-Offender Relationships By DAVID E. OLSON AND MICHAEL D. MALTZ, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

Our results indicated that the direction of effect of the shall-issue law on total SHR homicide rates was similar to that obtained by Lott and Mustard, although the magnitude of the effect was somewhat smaller and was statistically significant at the 7 percent level. In our analysis, which included only counties with a 1977 population of 100,000 or more, laws allowing for concealed weapons were associated with a 6.52 percent reduction in total homicides (Table 2). By comparison, Lott and Mustard found the concealed weapon dummy variable to be associated with a 7.65 percent reduction in total homicides across all counties and a 9 percent reduction in homicides when only large counties (populations of 100,000 or more) were included.43

===============

This one shows the benefits, in the billions of CCW laws...

http://johnrlott.tripod.com/Plassmann_Whitley.pdf

COMMENTS Confirming ìMore Guns, Less Crimeî Florenz Plassmann* & John Whitley**

CONCLUSION Analyzing county-level data for the entire United States from 1977 to 2000, we find annual reductions in murder rates between 1.5% and 2.3% for each additional year that a right-to-carry law is in effect. For the first five years that such a law is in effect, the total benefit from reduced crimes usually ranges between about $2 and $3 billion per year. The results are very similar to earlier estimates using county-level data from 1977 to 1996. We appreciate the continuing effort that Ayres and Donohue have made in discussing the impact of right-to-carry laws on crime rates. Yet we believe that both the new evidence provided by them as well as our new results show consistently that right-to-carry laws reduce crime and save lives. Unfortunately, a few simple mistakes lead Ayres and Donohue to incorrectly claim that crime rates significantly increase after right-to-carry laws are initially adopted and to misinterpret the significance of their own estimates that examined the year-to-year impact of the law.

=============

http://crimeresearch.org/wp-content...An-Exercise-in-Replication.proof_.revised.pdf

~ The Impact of Right-to-Carry Laws on Crime: An Exercise in Replication1

Carlisle E. Moody College of William and Mary - Department of Economics, Virginia 23187, U.S.A. E-mail: [email protected] Thomas B. Marvell Justec Research, Virginia 23185, U.S.A. Paul R. Zimmerman U.S. Federal Trade Commission - Bureau of Economics, Washington, D.C., U.S.A. Fasil Alemante College of William and Mary, Virginia 23187, U.S.A.


Abstract: In an article published in 2011, Aneja, Donohue and Zhang found that shall-issue or right-to-carry (RTC) concealed weapons laws have no effect on any crime except for a positive effect on assault. This paper reports a replication of their basic findings and some corresponding robustness checks, which reveal a serious omitted variable problem. Once corrected for omitted variables, the most robust result, confirmed using both county and state data, is that RTC laws significantly reduce murder. There is no robust, consistent evidence that RTC laws have any significant effect on other violent crimes, including assault. There is some weak evidence that RTC laws increase robbery and assault while decreasing rape. Given that the victim costs of murder and rape are much higher than the costs of robbery and assault, the evidence shows that RTC laws are socially beneficial.

=======

States with lower guns = higher murder....and assault weapon ban pointless..

http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/13504851.2013.854294

An examination of the effects of concealed weapons laws and assault weapons bans on state-level murder rates
Mark Gius

Abstract
The purpose of the present study is to determine the effects of state-level assault weapons bans and concealed weapons laws on state-level murder rates. Using data for the period 1980 to 2009 and controlling for state and year fixed effects, the results of the present study suggest that states with restrictions on the carrying of concealed weapons had higher gun-related murder rates than other states. It was also found that assault weapons bans did not significantly affect murder rates at the state level. These results suggest that restrictive concealed weapons laws may cause an increase in gun-related murders at the state level. The results of this study are consistent with some prior research in this area, most notably Lott and Mustard (1997).





Taking apart ayre and donahue one....




“The Debate on Shall-Issue Laws” by Carlisle e. Moody and Thomas B. Marvell, published in Econ Journal Watch, volume 5, number 3, September 2008 It is also available here..


Summary and Conclusion Many articles have been published finding that shall-issue laws reduce crime. Only one article, by Ayres and Donohue who employ a model that combines a dummy variable with a post-law trend, claims to find that shall-issue laws increase crime.
However, the only way that they can produce the result that shall-issue laws increase crime is to confine the span of analysis to five years. We show, using their own estimates, that if they had extended their analysis by one more year, they would have concluded that these laws reduce crime.

Since most states with shallissue laws have had these laws on the books for more than five years, and the law will presumably remain on the books for some time, the only relevant analysis extends beyond five years. We extend their analysis by adding three more years of data, control for the effects of crack cocaine, control for dynamic effects, and correct the standard errors for clustering. We find that there is an initial increase in crime due to passage of the shall-issue law that is dwarfed over time by the decrease in crime associated with the post-law trend. These results are very similar to those of Ayres and Donohue, properly interpreted.

The modified Ayres and Donohue model finds that shall-issue laws significantly reduce murder and burglary across all the adopting states.

These laws appear to significantly increase assault, and have no net effect on rape, robbery, larceny, or auto theft. However, in the long run only the trend coefficients matter. We estimate a net benefit of $450 million per year as a result of the passage of these laws.

We also estimate that, up through 2000, there was a cumulative overall net benefit of these laws of $28 billion since their passage. We think that there is credible statistical evidence that these laws lower the costs of crime.

But at the very least, the present study should neutralize any “more guns, more crime” thinking based on Ayres and Donohue’s work in the Stanford Law Review

 

[KissMy]

Funny how St Louis allows CCW without permit & crime is soaring! Gun's don't reduce crime!

 

[2aguy]

Funny how St Louis allows CCW without permit & crime is soaring! Gun's don't reduce crime!

Again....St. Louis has had democrat mayors since 1949....that is the problem....

Mayor of St. Louis - Wikipedia

These are the policies that allow repeat gun offenders to murder.....it isn't law abiding gun owners who are shooting each other dipshit...


Rise in Murders Has St. Louis Debating Why

Jennifer M. Joyce, the city’s circuit attorney, or prosecutor, an elected position, complains that in St. Louis, the illegal possession of a gun is too often “a crime without a consequence,” making it difficult to stop confrontation from turning lethal.

At the same time, deeper social roots of violence such as addiction and unemployment continue unchecked.

And city officials also cite what they call a “Ferguson effect,” an increase in crime last year as police officers were diverted to control protests after a white officer shot and killed Michael Brown, an unarmed black teenager in the nearby suburb on Aug. 9.

-----------

Now, an overstretched department is forced to pick one neighborhood at a time to flood with officers. Last month, Chief Dotson even asked the state highway patrol if it could lend a dozen men to help watch downtown streets; the agency declined.
----
When the police discover a gun in a car with several passengers, including some with felony records, but no one admits to owning the gun, criminal charges are often impossible, Mr. Rosenfeld said.

In addition, according to a 2014 study by Mr. Rosenfeld and his colleagues, a majority of those who are convicted of illegally possessing a gun but not caught using it in a crime receive probation rather than jail time. Gun laws and enforcement are stiffer in many other cities.

 

[KissMy]

2 weeks ago my neighbor lost his sisters entire family, because crazies are armed. His brother in law was depressed since 2010.

 

[Geaux4it]

100,000 people are shot in the USA every year!

How many were shot by a good guy with a gun saving lives?

The only good guys / hero's are the the people saving more & more lives of gunshot victims thereby reducing the murder rate. Gee I wonder why medical cost keep rising?

((((YAWN)))))

Hangnails give me more pause

-Geaux

 

[Geaux4it]

NO ONE is calling for the banning of ALL guns....our country is too invested in the macho image......BUT, sane folks SHOULD call for the banning of military-style, assault weapons with extensive ammo clips whose ONLY purpose is to kill as many people as possible in the shortest number of minutes.....

All that you gun nuts are doing is FACILITATING murderous wackos' jobs for them.

Wrong. Only lemmings like you believe that. And I actually think you don't even believe it instead you're trolling

-Geaux

 

[bripat9643]

Better check your numbers, unless you rely on Facebook for your news.

The first is data for deaths by guns, which is included in an annual report about deaths of all types during calendar year 2009. The numbers for gun deaths is broken down into several categories:

Suicide: 18,735 deaths
Homicide: 11,493 deaths
Unintentional: 554 deaths
Legal interventions: 333 deaths
Undetermined: 232 deaths

Total: 31,347 deaths

The second data set tracks non-fatal injuries by guns. According to the CDC, there were 73,505 non-fatal firearm injuries in 2010. (We will ignore an additional 13,851 non-fatal injuries from BB or pellet guns.)

How accurate is the Facebook post?

If you add together the gun deaths and the non-fatal gun injuries, you get 104,852 people shot in a year. That’s very close to the 1000,000 the Facebook post said.

Suicides don't count because those people wanted to get shot. So then the issue breaks down to why were the rest of the people shot. Most of the murders were the result of gang violence. The same problably goes for the non fatal injuries. Then there are hunting accidents, which probably constitute a big percentage of the total. There are also a lot that are the result of crime. Either the perp was shot by the police or the perp shot one or more victims. I haven't found any statistics on this, so it's dififcult to draw any conclusions.

 

[bripat9643]

NO ONE is calling for the banning of ALL guns....our country is too invested in the macho image......BUT, sane folks SHOULD call for the banning of military-style, assault weapons with extensive ammo clips whose ONLY purpose is to kill as many people as possible in the shortest number of minutes.....

All that you gun nuts are doing is FACILITATING murderous wackos' jobs for them.

Actually, yes they are, turd. Plenty of Dems have called for repealing the 2nd Amendment.

 

[Wry Catcher]

100,000 people are shot in the USA every year!

How many were shot by a good guy with a gun saving lives?

The only good guys / hero's are the the people saving more & more lives of gunshot victims thereby reducing the murder rate. Gee I wonder why medical cost keep rising?

((((YAWN)))))

Hangnails give me more pause

-Geaux

A ;typical response ^^^ from a sociopath!

 

[miketx]

NO ONE is calling for the banning of ALL guns....our country is too invested in the macho image......BUT, sane folks SHOULD call for the banning of military-style, assault weapons with extensive ammo clips whose ONLY purpose is to kill as many people as possible in the shortest number of minutes.....

All that you gun nuts are doing is FACILITATING murderous wackos' jobs for them.

Yes they are. Dem scum want to ban all guns. It's old news.

 

[deanrd]

Better check your numbers, unless you rely on Facebook for your news.

Do 100,000 people get shot every year in U.S.? Facebook post says yes

 

[SSGT Bags]

S

Better check your numbers, unless you rely on Facebook for your news.

Do 100,000 people get shot every year in U.S.? Facebook post says yes

So, you don't think we should deduct suicides?

 

[BasicHumanUnit]

100,000 people are shot in the USA every year!
How many were shot by a good guy with a gun saving lives?
The only good guys / hero's are the the people saving more & more lives of gunshot victims thereby reducing the murder rate. Gee I wonder why medical cost keep rising?

500,000 people are shot and KILLED in China and North Korea every year.
And that's just for disagreeing.

Apparently the OP wishes a LOT more Americans would die every year.

Gee, I wonder why more DICTATORS are rising across the globe?

 

[KissMy]

Better check your numbers, unless you rely on Facebook for your news.

The first is data for deaths by guns, which is included in an annual report about deaths of all types during calendar year 2009. The numbers for gun deaths is broken down into several categories:

Suicide: 18,735 deaths
Homicide: 11,493 deaths
Unintentional: 554 deaths
Legal interventions: 333 deaths
Undetermined: 232 deaths

Total: 31,347 deaths

The second data set tracks non-fatal injuries by guns. According to the CDC, there were 73,505 non-fatal firearm injuries in 2010. (We will ignore an additional 13,851 non-fatal injuries from BB or pellet guns.)

How accurate is the Facebook post?

If you add together the gun deaths and the non-fatal gun injuries, you get 104,852 people shot in a year. That’s very close to the 1000,000 the Facebook post said.

Suicides don't count because those people wanted to get shot. So then the issue breaks down to why were the rest of the people shot. Most of the murders were the result of gang violence. The same problably goes for the non fatal injuries. Then there are hunting accidents, which probably constitute a big percentage of the total. There are also a lot that are the result of crime. Either the perp was shot by the police or the perp shot one or more victims. I haven't found any statistics on this, so it's dififcult to draw any conclusions.

In 2009 legal interventions (shooting a criminal) = 333 deaths out of the 100,000 good citizens shot. Yea that is so worth it! Why not keep guns away from crazies? Or not sell any more reliable guns with quick change magazines WMD's? That way if a crazy gets a gun he can't endlessly reload shooting 600 people in less than 10 minutes?

 

[KissMy]

Chicago is the center of gun violence and has very strict Gun Laws. So what's causing this Lib Democrat run city's high murder rate? What exactly is the mayor doing to stem the flow of murders?

Total bullshit. Chicago don't rank in the top 15 violent homicide crime cities. St. Louis is the worst & they have the least restrictive gun laws in the country & the highest number of police per resident of any city except DC. The problem are the cops who only police for profit by ignoring destitute violent thieves & heavily ticketing home owners & people driving vehicles.

The police costing more than the criminals.

Hey....dipshit....the mayors of St. Louis have been exclusively democrats since 1953......

Mayor of St. Louis - Wikipedia

You idiots keep claiming guns lower crime / keep US safer, now when the facts prove that wrong you switched to blaming democrats & mayors! LOL!!! Those democrat mayors are not stripping the criminals of their 2nd amendment rights like the republicans force them to do.