2016 Arctic sea ice thread

[elektra]

Damn, you are one ignorant little fool, Elektra. No, all the scientists did not fight against Plate Tectonics. In fact, once the evidence was presented, the paradigm was accepted with a surprising rapidity. Alfred Wegener first proposed Continental Drift in 1912, but could not supply a mechanism for the movement of the continents. As early as 1596, there was spectulation concerning the movement of continents. With the mapping of the magnetic stripes on the Juan de Fuca ridge, and the seismic profile of the subduction zones, suddenly we could see what was happening.

Now it so happens that the absorption spectra of the GHGs, combined with the temperature records from the ice cores and other proxies, gives us a very good historical record of the relationship between the GHGs and atmospheric temperature. So it is simply a matter of known physics and observation, and we are seeing exactly what the scientists have been predicting.

Watch how Old Crock fails to grasp things as easy as PIE (P=IE power formula).

First I spoke of Plate Tectonics, not Continental Drift. How much of a conversation do you wish to have on this subject, Old Crock? Ignorance? I have 5 books I can reference, all rolled up into one, The Annals of the Former World by John McPhee. As you can see just about anything you find with Google, I can respond with the details which in your ignorance you have not the knowledge to do an adequate Google search upon.

So, I will paraphrase, and take a pic, and site my reference. I really do not care if you link or source, I can easily reply.

Alfred Wegener first proposed Continental Drift in 1912, but could not supply a mechanism for the movement of the continents

Historically, it was the 16th century that Continental Drift was proposed, or maybe earlier, either way, Flemish geographer Abraham Ortelius, in the third edition of his Thesarus Geographicus (Antwerp, 1596) postulated that the American continents were, "torn away from Europe and Africa". by earthquakes and other events.

Jump to 1838, Scottish philospher Thomas Dick, of County Angus, published his Celestial Scenery, in which he explained how different land masses or continents fit neatly together to form one continent, and proposed how they may of been torn apart.

But, on Wegener, and the acceptance of, Old Crock, you are completely wrong.

 

[elektra]

Wow, so it seems, the Hypothesis of Continental Drift was considered a joke for 50 years? Not as Old Crock stated;

In fact, once the evidence was presented, the paradigm was accepted with a surprising rapidity.

 

[Old Rocks]

Arctic Sea Ice Dwindles to New Record Winter Low
Scientific American-Mar 29, 2016
Every winter, the Arctic Ocean's sea ice cover reaches a peak and then declines with the onset of spring. That peak, recorded this year on ...

The article in the link reports records go back 37 years. That is hardly enough data to suggest we are in a longterm global warming trend. Less than 100 years ago most scientist believed the continents were static. Now they all agree and subscribe to plate tectonics. This global warming theory is very young, meteorology and climatology is very complicated. Anthropogenic global climate change won't even be a topic of discussion in 20 years.

We have records, from ice cores, that go back 800,000 years. We have other proxies that go back further than that. We also have the absorption spectra of the greenhouse gases. There is more than enough data to show that as long as we keep adding GHGs to the atmosphere, the warming will increase.

CO2, the biggest control knob, Richard Alley, youtube - Yahoo Search Results Yahoo Search Results

The greenhouse gas effect is widely accepted, the problem is nobody has produced a reliable model. Therefore making predictions on cause and effect has yet been speculation. Warming alarmist have damaged their brand by making absurd predictions (see Al Gore) which have not occurred. Throw in money and politics, and VIOLA, reasonable people question the "science". Remove money, politics and emotion to get untainted science.

Well, Buck, first of all, Al Gore is not a scientist, he is a journalist by training. And the scientists have done a pretty good job of predicting what the effects of AGW were going to be.

Pubs.GISS: Hansen et al. 1981: Climate impact of increasing atmospheric carbon dioxide

Hansen et al. 1981
Hansen, J., D. Johnson, A. Lacis, S. Lebedeff, P. Lee, D. Rind, and G. Russell, 1981: Climate impact of increasing atmospheric carbon dioxide. Science, 213, 957-966, doi:10.1126/science.213.4511.957.

The global temperature rose 0.2°C between the middle 1960s and 1980, yielding a warming of 0.4°C in the past century. This temperature increase is consistent with the calculated effect due to measured increases of atmospheric carbon dioxide. Variations of volcanic aerosols and possibly solar luminosity appear to be primary causes of observed fluctuations about the mean trend of increasing temperature. It is shown that the anthropogenic carbon dioxide warming should emerge from the noise level of natural climate variability by the end of the century, and there is a high probability of warming in the 1980s. Potential effects on climate in the 21st century include the creation of drought-prone regions in North America and central Asia as part of a shifting of climatic zones, erosion of the West Antarctic ice sheet with a consequent worldwide rise in sea level, and opening of the fabled Northwest Passage.

The prediction was really for the end of the 21st century, but the Northwest Passage opened for the first time in 2007. We are seeing the start of the breakup of the West Antarctic Ice Shelf right now.

If you really want to know what the scientists present as a evidence for AGW, here is a site from the American Institute of Physics.

The Carbon Dioxide Greenhouse Effect

 

[frigidweirdo]

Jelly Sandwhich? That still leaves the Antarctic which is growing

But speaking of the Arctic, which varies greatly all throughout history, here is nice study on ice thickness, which goes on to explain, there is not a lot of information available.
Ice thickness in the Northwest Passage - Haas - 2015 - Geophysical Research Letters - Wiley Online Library

The Antarctic is doing the same thing. Yes, it's "growing", it's growing in the sense that there's less ice there too.

There might not be details of how many times polar bears fart in the Arctic, however, like I said, what you've said (and which you seem to have decided to not talk about in this post) is not actually true.

You're making claims which are not based on logic.

You're saying that because the Arctic ice is spread over a larger space, that this somehow means that global warming isn't happening.

Would you like to change your view now?

Nope, its getting thicker, I posted the story and the link, I can go back and get it.

I still can't figure out how ice melts under 29 degrees F.

Why do you think there is ice melting under 29 degrees F?

cause you all keep saying it. you have no evidence that the arctic has been warmer. The average temp is 27 degree F. So?

No evidence the arctic is warmer?

Sea ice area is lower, hotter temperatures, lower sea ice.

Oh, NASA sees temperatures rising.

The UAH sees them rising.

And some more

 

[elektra]

Well, the problem is some people just act like science should be easy enough for them to understand, and if they can't understand it, they reject it.

Of course there are those who are arrogant and think they are smart enough to understand complex hypothesis, or even more complex theories, simply because they go outside on a warm day and arrogantly think that confirms their understanding.

Nice observation of yours, although a bit shallow.

 

[TyroneSlothrop]

YEAR IN THE RED
I think most climate scientists are surprised at the speed that it’s happening,” she said. “But at the same time, with emissions peaking again last year... everything was pointing to an increased temperature. It’s the amount by which the records are being broken, not the fact that the record’s being broken, that’s really striking.

 

[TyroneSlothrop]

Well, the problem is some people just act like science should be easy enough for them to understand, and if they can't understand it, they reject it.

Of course there are those who are arrogant and think they are smart enough to understand complex hypothesis, or even more complex theories, simply because they go outside on a warm day and arrogantly think that confirms their understanding.

Nice observation of yours, although a bit shallow.

That is why we have NOAA NASA and Meteorological bureaus...they all agree on AGW

 

[elektra]

YEAR IN THE RED
I think most climate scientists are surprised at the speed that it’s happening,” she said. “But at the same time, with emissions peaking again last year... everything was pointing to an increased temperature. It’s the amount by which the records are being broken, not the fact that the record’s being broken, that’s really striking.

Coloring is for fools and the ignorant.

 

[elektra]

That is why we have NOAA NASA and Meteorological bureaus...they all agree on AGW

What they state publicly is not proven to be what they know and agree on.

 

[TyroneSlothrop]

That is why we have NOAA NASA and Meteorological bureaus...they all agree on AGW

What they state publicly is not proven to be what they know and agree on.

Says you who are to me a NOBODY...

 

[TyroneSlothrop]

YEAR IN THE RED
I think most climate scientists are surprised at the speed that it’s happening,” she said. “But at the same time, with emissions peaking again last year... everything was pointing to an increased temperature. It’s the amount by which the records are being broken, not the fact that the record’s being broken, that’s really striking.

Coloring is for fools and the ignorant.

Rejecting science to repeat Political dogma is MORONIC

 

[Old Rocks]

Wow, so it seems, the Hypothesis of Continental Drift was considered a joke for 50 years? Not as Old Crock stated;

In fact, once the evidence was presented, the paradigm was accepted with a surprising rapidity.

My, you have a talent for reading things into other peoples posts that simply are not there. I read my first college level geology book in 1956. It was about 20 years old at the time. And the author's did not consider Wegener's hypothesis a joke. In fact it made considerable mention of the evidence of the matching coastlines, and the matching geology and animals. However, it also stated there was no known mechanism that could propel fragile continental rock though oceanic basalt.

When the evidence from the magnetic stripes on the Juan de Fuca ridge was obtained, and the seismic profile of the subduction zones was discovered, the correlation was obvious to almost everybody. And the theory of Plate Tectonics was quite quickly accepted by most of the community of geologists, here and in other nations. Simple fact. By 1970, they were examining the ophiolites in places like Canyon Mountain near John Day, Oregon, to understand the obduction processes. By the '70's, Plate Tectonics was the accepted paradigm for the evolution.

 

[elektra]

Says you who are to me a NOBODY...

Yet you display you stupidity, brilliantly, if I am in fact a NOBODY, why do you take the time to address so many of my posts, and then upon failing to have a response that is part of the subject, you resort to attacking me personally?

Obviously I am somebody who posts logic that you can not argue or debate, otherwise you would never respond to my posts.

Nobody, is somebody you do not even acknowledge, not someone you attempt to discredit.

 

[elektra]

Rejecting science to repeat Political dogma is MORONIC

Yet, I did not reject science, I pointed out how a colored picture is for the fools and ignorant, it was pretty, did you use crayolas or did you copy it from a google search?

 

[TyroneSlothrop]

NOAA Information

Yet, I did not reject science, I pointed out how a colored picture is for the fools and ignorant, it was pretty, did you use crayolas or did you copy it from a google search?

Nothing personal but you got an ego on you that is totally unwarranted by you
Has anyone told you that you are an asshole ....? you snide ignorant piece of shit you just do not like what NOAA has to say BitchRejecting science to repeat Political dogma is MORONIC

 

[Old Rocks]

Rejecting science to repeat Political dogma is MORONIC

Yet, I did not reject science, I pointed out how a colored picture is for the fools and ignorant, it was pretty, did you use crayolas or did you copy it from a google search?

LOL

 

[TyroneSlothrop]

Look here is some more Information "with colors" even if that insane asshole Science rejecting Bea Otch don't like it ..fuck that

 

[TyroneSlothrop]

Rejecting science to repeat Political dogma is MORONIC

Yet, I did not reject science, I pointed out how a colored picture is for the fools and ignorant, it was pretty, did you use crayolas or did you copy it from a google search?

Hey Fuck face did you go to the link and read the INFORMATION in TEXT..Go F Yourself Idiot
here is an example
We are breaking records by 3 to 4 tenths of degree C, whereas even the largest El Niños... only boost global temperatures by 1 to 2 tenths of a degree C,” Michael Mann, a climate scientist and director of Pennsylvania State University’s Earth System Science Center, told The Huffington Post in an email. “Even neglecting the possibility that climate change itself is leading to more monster El Niños... El Niño cannot explain the majority of this record warmth. Climate change is clearly playing a key role in the record warmth.”
We Just Completed A Full Year Of Record-Hot Months

 

[elektra]

Wow, so it seems, the Hypothesis of Continental Drift was considered a joke for 50 years? Not as Old Crock stated;

In fact, once the evidence was presented, the paradigm was accepted with a surprising rapidity.

My, you have a talent for reading things into other peoples posts that simply are not there. I read my first college level geology book in 1956. It was about 20 years old at the time. And the author's did not consider Wegener's hypothesis a joke. In fact it made considerable mention of the evidence of the matching coastlines, and the matching geology and animals. However, it also stated there was no known mechanism that could propel fragile continental rock though oceanic basalt.

When the evidence from the magnetic stripes on the Juan de Fuca ridge was obtained, and the seismic profile of the subduction zones was discovered, the correlation was obvious to almost everybody. And the theory of Plate Tectonics was quite quickly accepted by most of the community of geologists, here and in other nations. Simple fact. By 1970, they were examining the ophiolites in places like Canyon Mountain near John Day, Oregon, to understand the obduction processes. By the '70's, Plate Tectonics was the accepted paradigm for the evolution.

In my defense, you were a bit vague, and left much out, and what I quoted, is from Kenneth Deffeyes, hardly a person you could disagree with Old Crock. It took decades for the Scientists to come around. Now if you want to state explictedly when the evidence was presented and how long it got accepted, fine, but my original assertion that it took decades for Scientists to agree that Plate Tectonics was indeed the leading theory that explains Continental drift, stands.

Scientists certainly take decades to be convinced.

Kenneth S. Deffeyes - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[TyroneSlothrop]

Rejecting science to repeat Political dogma is MORONIC

Yet, I did not reject science, I pointed out how a colored picture is for the fools and ignorant, it was pretty, did you use crayolas or did you copy it from a google search?

LOL

Incredible I put up a link with all kinds of Information and all this creepy snide Individual has to say is that it has a "Colored picture " and therefore its for "fools and ignorant" followed by rather pathetic snark fail...Are these fuckers on Drugs or something ?