338,000

[2aguy]

Just a side question... are you just pretending this is a good idea or do you really think having 50 armed people in close proximity to other armed is going to stop someone from being killed by gunfire? Because...it hasn't worked in the history of warfare where firearms were involved.

You are a moron.....

Armed Citizens Are Successful 94% Of The Time At Active Shooter Events [FBI]

Of all the active shooter events there were 33 at which an armed citizen was present. Of those, Armed Citizens were successful at stopping the Active shooter 75.8% of the time (25 incidents) and were successful in reducing the loss of life in an additional 18.2% (6) of incidents. In only 2 of the 33 incidents (6.1%) was the Armed Citizen(s) not helpful in any way in stopping the active shooter or reducing the loss of life.

Thus the headline of our report that Armed Citizens Are Successful 94% Of The Time At Active Shooter Events.


In the 2 incidents at which the armed citizen “failed” to stop or slow the active shooter, one is the previously mentioned incident with hunters. The other is an incident in which the CCWer was shot in the back in a Las Vegas Walmart when he failed to identify that there were 2 Active Shooters involved in the attack. He neglected to identify the one that shot him in the back while he was trying to ambush the other perpetrator.

We also decided to look at the breakdown of events that took place in gun free zones and the relative death toll from events in gun free zones vs non-gun-free zones.

Of the 283 incidents in our data pool, we were unable to identify if the event took place in a gun-free zone in a large number (41%) of the events. Most of the events took place at a business, church, home, or other places at which as a rule of law it is not a gun free zone but potentially could have been declared one by the property owner. Without any information in the FBI study or any indication one way or the other from the news reports, we have indicated that event with a question mark.

If you look at all of the Active Shooter events (pie chart on the top) you see that for those which we have the information, almost twice as many took place in gun free zones than not; but realistically the vast majority of those for which we have no information (indicated as ?) are probably NOT gun free zones.

If you isolate just the events at which 8 or more people were killed the data paints a different picture (pie chart on the bottom). In these incidents, 77.8% took place in a gun-free zone suggesting that gun free zones lead to a higher death rate vs active shooter events in general

=====

One of the final metrics we thought was important to consider is the potential tendency for armed citizens to injure or kill innocent people in their attempt to “save the day.” A common point in political discussions is to point out the lack of training of most armed citizens and the decrease in safety inherent in their presence during violent encounters.

As you can see below, however, at the 33 incidents at which Armed Citizens were present, there were zero situations at which the Armed Citizen injured or killed an innocent person. It never happened.

 

[2aguy]

Really? Nobody ever died from gunshots in warfare?

It works everyday in Europe, Australia, Asia, Africa, etc....

You don't know what you are talking about.....

Europe...

France...

https://www.thenationalnews.com/world/europe/2022/01/10/french-election-focus-on-crime-puts-marseilles-ganglands-in-the-frame/

============
Police struggle to stop flood of firearms into UK


Police and border officials are struggling to stop a rising supply of illegal firearms being smuggled into Britain, a senior police chief has warned.

Chief constable Andy Cooke, the national police lead for serious and organised crime, said law enforcement had seen an increased supply of guns over the past year, and feared that it would continue in 2019

The Guardian has learned that the situation is so serious that the National Crime Agency has taken the rare step of using its legal powers to direct every single police force to step up the fight against illegal guns.

The NCA has used tasking powers to direct greater intelligence about firearms to be gathered by all 43 forces in England and Wales.

Another senior law enforcement official said that “new and clean” weapons were now being used in the majority of shootings, as opposed to guns once being so difficult to obtain that they would be “rented out” to be used in multiple crimes.

Cooke, the Merseyside chief constable, told the Guardian: “We in law enforcement expect the rise in new firearms to continue. We are doing all we can. We are not in a position to stop it anytime soon.

“Law enforcement is more joined up now than before, but the scale of the problem is such that despite a number of excellent firearms seizures, I expect the rise in supply to be a continuing issue.”

The increasing supply of guns belies problems with UK border security and innovations by organised crime gangs. Smugglers have increasingly found new ways and innovative routes to get guns past border defences.


Cooke said that the dynamics of the streets of British cities had changed and that criminals were more willing to use guns: “If they bring them in people will buy them. It’s a kudos thing for organised criminals.”

Simon Brough, head of firearms at the NCA, said: “The majority of guns being used are new, clean firearms ... which indicates a relatively fluid supply.”

He said shotguns were 40% of the total, with an increase in burglaries to try and steal them.

Handguns are the next biggest category, most often smuggled in from overseas, with ferry ports such as Dover being a popular entry point into the UK for organised crime groups:

“We’re doing a lot to fight back against it,” Brough said, adding that compared to other European countries, the availability in the UK was relatively lower.




==========


The fully automatic military rifle is the weapon of choice for French and Swedish criminals....

France....

Paris attacks highlight France's gun control problems

The arsenal of weapons deployed by the eight attackers who terrorised Paris on Friday night underlined France’s gun control problems and raised the spectre of further attacks.

The country has extremely strict weapons laws, but Europe’s open borders and growing trade in illegal weapons means assault rifles are relatively easy to come by on the black market.


===============

A police investigation is underway after two people were shot dead, and a third burnt alive on Saturday evening in the southern French city of Marseille. It's the fourth death linked to gun violence this week, a phenomenon which the Mayor Benoît Payan says is out of control.

"In Marseille, you can buy a Kalachnikov as easy as buying a pain au chocolat," he said.

"This has to stop, and the Interior Minister, who is aware of the problem, must make it a key objective."
----
"If people are being killed by Kalachnikov rifles, it's because they are too easily sold throughout the city."



Three dead in Marseille shootout: 'guns are too easy to buy' says mayor

Reports of 'heavy gunfire' on the streets of French city of Nimes | Daily Mail Online

Machine-gun shots have been heard on the streets of a French city this evening as it was claimed a 'shootout' took place between rival gangs.

Repeated 'heavy gunfire' bursts were let off in the city of Nimes in southern France after armed men were seen in the area.

Social media videos showed several people running through the street as shots rang out at around 8.30pm.

Initial reports suggested the shooting could have been linked to gangs operating in the area.

Residents in a suburb of Pissevin district in the city claimed gang members shot at a building occupied by a rival group.


Reports of gunfire in the district have been on the rise in recent months, according to local media

Sweden....

Crime gangs in Sweden: What's behind the rise in the use of explosives?

The frequent use of explosives is a relatively recent phenomenon, and criminologists told The Local that the blasts can be seen as part of an overall rise in violence and growing recklessness in these criminal networks.

Amir Rostami, a police superintendent turned sociologist with a focus on criminal gangs, told The Local that so-called 'street gangs' are showing an increased tendency towards violence, and that this violence was becoming more severe when it took place.

"If previously they maybe fired one shot or shot someone in the legs, today it's more about AK47s, using more bullets, hand grenades and explosions that we didn't see before. I'd say that's the biggest shift we see – they're more reckless, they don't seem to care about the consequences," Rostami said.

Fatal shootings linked to criminal gangs have increased from around four per year in the early 1990s to over 40 in 2018. And while the blasts that have taken place in Sweden have caused no fatalities so far this year, they could be seen as a sign that the gangs are unafraid of causing damage and potentially harming people.



No, Sweden, hand grenade attacks aren’t an ‘image’ problem

In 2018 there were 162 bombings reported to police, and 93 reported in the first five months of this year, 30 more than during the same period in 2018. The level of attacks is “extreme in a country that is not at war,” Crime Commissioner Gunnar Appelgren toldSVT last year.
-------
The use of hand grenades is a purely Swedish phenomenon too, with no other country in Europe reporting their use on such a level, a police manager told Swedish Radio in 2016, a year after attacks first spiked.

The grenades used almost exclusively originate in the former Yugoslavia, and are sold in Sweden for around $100 per piece. But while only three hand grenades were thrown in Kosovo between 2013 and 2014, more than 20 have been used in Sweden every year since 2015.

More broadly, homicide has risen in Sweden, with more than 300 shootings reported last year, causing 45 deaths. Though homicide rates had been in decline since 2002, they again began trending upwards in 2015, as did rapes and sexual assaults, which more than tripled in the last four years.

Of course, 2015 was also the year in which Sweden flung open its doors to more than 160,000 asylum seekers, more per capita than any other European country.
-------

IN DEPTH: What's behind the rise in gang violence across Sweden?

The weapon of choice for gangs are Kalashnikov automatic rifles. Imported from the Balkans, they are available for between 2,500 and 3,500 euros (around $2,800 to $3,950), although they become "more expensive in the event of an open conflict," according to Appelgren.
-------

Honour, debts, and prestige are serving as the pretext for an increasing number of deadly shootings that challenge the ideals of equality and social harmony on which modern Sweden was built.
-----

Last year more than 300 shootings resulted in 45 deaths and 135 injuries in Sweden.

While the overall homicide rate remains one of the lowest in the world, with one per 100,000 inhabitants according to police statistics, deadly shootings have been steadily rising and last year reached record levels. 2019 is also on track to create another unwanted record. In Stockholm the first six months of the year have seen as many killings as the whole of 2018.

 

[2aguy]

Really? Nobody ever died from gunshots in warfare?

It works everyday in Europe, Australia, Asia, Africa, etc....

Australia.....

It's a portrait of the average Australian who operates in the country's illegal firearms market, built from the findings of a 2022 Deakin University study.
In the study, criminology professor David Bright and his colleagues conducted 75 interviews with prisoners across 16 correctional facilities comprising drug traffickers, members of organised crime gangs and armed robbers.
The researchers were attempting to build a picture of the illegal gun trade in the Australian underworld.
They found buying an illegal gun in Australia could be as easy as a trip to the supermarket for those in the know.
Figures show a deep reservoir of illegal firearms exists for criminals to tap into, with police measures only able to recover tiny fractions each year.
----
Professor Bright said most of the interviewees came from backgrounds where criminal behaviour and access to guns were the norm.
----
"Some of the stories were shocking, I suppose, in the sense of the violence that some of these men had either experienced or had engaged in using guns," Professor Bright said.
"The other surprising thing was just how easily some of these men were able to access firearms."
---

The source of illegal firearms​

The Deakin University study identified the main ways illegal firearms were procured in Australia.
Very few criminals interviewed spoke of obtaining weapons through the internet or "dark web", with them instead preferring to rely on personal connections.
Guns are commonly obtained from friends and family, as well as from deals where a trusted party has vouched for the potential buyer.
One prisoner was given guns on the condition that he attacked certain people to earn them.
"I had to do two things to get the guns, but that was simple so I didn't really have to do much," they said.
"I just had to shoot at people … I didn't care … I was getting free guns out of it."
---
Police use firearms prohibition orders (FPOs) to ban people they believe are linked to organised crime from coming into contact with guns.
---
In 2019 — the year after FPOs were introduced — Victoria recorded a nine-year high in firearm assault deaths.
---
The latest figures from the Australian Criminal Intelligence Commission (ACIC) estimate there are at least 260,000 illegal firearms circulating in Australia.
In its report, it states the number of illegal firearms could be as high as 600,000 if estimation methods from the United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime were used.
---
It means the seizures represent just a fraction of a percentage of Australia's illegal firearms market. And for those convicted of serious gun-related crimes in SA and NSW, not much has changed.
The insular nature of the illegal firearms market has led to increased caution among criminals when trafficking and carrying firearms, but the ease of access remains the same.
"Honestly, the access is pretty easy. I could get access to a gun within an hour of walking out of jail … no problem at all," one prisoner said in the Deakin report.

Paper linked to in above article....

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/01639625.2022.2086838
As Melbourne and Sydney reel from inner-city shootings, researchers look to trace where the guns are coming from



==============
More on the 9/3/22 topic.....from above...

He said some of the interviewees spoke of illegal firearm suppliers having "huge caches" of guns, including pistols, shotguns and semi-automatic rifles.

Buying illegal guns 'surprisingly easy' for underworld figures, research finds
=======

1/6/22

The modus operandi of the hitmen contracted to take out Hamzy associates is to sneak up on the target - often in a public place - and pepper them with bullets.
---
OCTOBER 18, 2020 - Rafat Alameddine's former home is shot up in a drive-by shooting

OCTOBER 19, 2020 - Mejid Hamzy is shot dead in Condell Park

JANUARY 30, 2021 - Mustafa Naaman is shot dead in Hurstville in a suspected mistaken identity attack on Ibrahem Hamze

JANUARY 30, 2021 - Mejed Derbas is shot dead in Smithfield

FEBRUARY 15, 2021 - Bilal Hamze's mother Maha Hamze comes under gunfire again in another drive-by shooting at her home in Auburn

MARCH 12, 2021 - A home linked to the Alameddine family in Guildford is shot up

AUGUST 6, 2021 - Alameddine low-level associate Shady Kanj is shot in Chester Hill and found dead by police in Guildford

AUGUST 14, 2021 - Police foil alleged gangland hit on Ibrahim Hamze when they spot stolen Mercedes in North Sydney

OCTOBER 20, 2021 - Salim and Toufik Hamze are gunned down outside their home in Guildford

NOVEMBER 10, 2021 - Drive-by shooting at Guildford home of Alameddine associate. No-one is hurt

JANUARY 6, 2022 - Brother of Bassam Hamzy, Ghassan Amoun, is shot dead at 35 years of age in a brazen daylight execution as he sat in a BMW outside an apartment building in Western Sydney.

How cops made a chilling prediction before crime boss brother killed


New article 9/1/20

Gun violence grips Victoria as deadly shootings double

More than 14 hardened criminals are being found in possession of firearms each week as the state grapples with a rising gun culture that has led to twice as many Victorians shot dead in 2019.
------
Anti-gangs division Detective Superintendent Peter Brigham said illegal firearms were routinely unearthed at the homes of drug traffickers and in the possession of “gangster types” chasing image and status.
----
In September, a 35-year-old Docklands man was sentenced to at least eight years' jail for heroin trafficking. As part of his plea deal, the former Iraqi national led police to a cache of weapons wrapped in plastic and hidden in a Melbourne drain. They included an SKS assault rifle and grenades.
---
And while handguns were proving to be the gun of choice among young men, high powered military-grade firearms were in demand from the city’s outlaw motorcycle gangs
======

Gun city: Young, dumb and armed

The notion that a military-grade weapon could be in the hands of local criminals is shocking, but police have already seized at least five machine guns and assault rifles in the past 18 months. The AK-47 was not among them.

Only a fortnight ago, law enforcement authorities announced they were hunting another seven assault rifles recently smuggled into the country. Weapons from the shipment have been used in armed robberies and drive-by shootings.

These are just a handful of the thousands of illicit guns fuelling a wave of violent crime in the world’s most liveable city.

----

Despite Australia’s strict gun control regime, criminals are now better armed than at any time since then-Prime Minister John Howard introduced a nationwide firearm buyback scheme in response to the 1996 Port Arthur massacre.

Shootings have become almost a weekly occurrence, with more than 125 people, mostly young men, wounded in the past five year

-----------

While the body count was higher during Melbourne’s ‘Underbelly War’ (1999-2005), more people have been seriously maimed in the recent spate of shootings and reprisals.

Crimes associated with firearm possession have also more than doubled, driven by the easy availability of handguns, semi-automatic rifles, shotguns and, increasingly, machine guns, that are smuggled into the country or stolen from licensed owners.

-------------

These weapons have been used in dozens of recent drive-by shootings of homes and businesses, as well as targeted and random attacks in parks, shopping centres and roads.

“They’re young, dumb and armed,” said one former underworld associate, who survived a shooting attempt in the western suburbs several years ago.

“It used to be that if you were involved in something bad you might have to worry about [being shot]. Now people get shot over nothing - unprovoked.”

------------

Gun crime soars
In this series, Fairfax Media looks at Melbourne’s gun problem and the new breed of criminals behind the escalating violence.

The investigation has found:

• There have been at least 99 shootings in the past 20 months - more than one incident a week since January 2015
• Known criminals were caught with firearms 755 times last year, compared to 143 times in 2011
• The epicentre of the problem is a triangle between Coolaroo, Campbellfield and Glenroy in the north-west, with Cranbourne, Narre Warren and Dandenong in the south-east close behind
• Criminals are using gunshot wounds to the arms and legs as warnings to pay debts
• Assault rifles and handguns are being smuggled into Australia via shipments of electronics and metal parts

In response to the violence, it can be revealed the state government is planning to introduce new criminal offences for drive-by shootings, manufacturing of firearms with new technologies such as 3D printers, and more police powers to keep weapons out of the hands of known criminals.

============

The second part of the series....

Gun city: Gunslingers of the North West


========================
'Thousands' of illegal guns tipped to be handed over in firearms amnesty

Asked roughly how many he expected to be handed in, Mr Keenan said: "Look I certainly think the number will be in the thousands."

The Australian Crime Commission estimated in 2012 there were at least 250,000 illegal guns in Australia. But a Senate report noted last year it was impossible to estimate how many illicit weapons are out there.

And despite Australia's strict border controls, the smuggling of high-powered military-style firearms is also a growing problem.

 

[2aguy]

Really? Nobody ever died from gunshots in warfare?

It works everyday in Europe, Australia, Asia, Africa, etc....

Japan....

The Great Japanese Gang Wars

The season for pineapples (yakuza slang for hand grenades) may finally be over. Jake Adelstein and Nathalie-Kyoko Stucky on the bloody, seven-year battle between the Dojin-kai and the Seido-kai.

In Southern Japan, the brutal pineapple season may finally be over; pineapple is yakuza slang for “hand grenade”—one of the many weapons utilized in a seven-year gang war between the Dojin-kai (1,000 members) and the splinter group the Kyushu Seido-kei (500 members).
----
---
The Gangs That Couldn’t Shoot Straight

The Dojin-kai and the Seido-kai are Kyushu-based yakuza gangs, once part of the same faction founded in 1971 in Kurume, Fukuoka Prefecture, by Isoji Koga. When the second generation Dojin-kai boss Seijiro Matsuo retired in May 2006, there was a fight over succession, and the group split into two factions, sparking a bloody gang war—where escalation seemed a matter of course. It started with shootings and bombs being thrown, and before it ended, the two gangs were lobbing grenades and Molotov cocktails, shooting machine guns, and sometimes attacking their own men.
-----
In May, a 9-year-old child found a hand grenade in a rice field in Iizuka, Fukuoka Prefecture, and took it home, to the astonishment of his father, who handed it over to the local police. According to the police, there were no yakuza headquarters where the grenade was found.

The numbers of grenades used and seized in the war became so problematic that by April 2012, the Fukuoka Prefecture Police became the first in Japan to offer cash rewards to anyone who reported finding a hand grenade.

 

[2aguy]

Yet another lie from the dishonest right.

Individuals who engage in private intrastate transactions of firearms where those individuals are residents of the same state are not required to complete a 4473 and be subject to a NICS background check.

UBCs would address that deficiency placing no restrictions on the acquisition all types of firearms.

and you are a dishonest asshole.....

You didn't quote this part of that post...

If you are a private seller....meaning you are you are not a dealer, and merely selling one of your own private guns, you can sell that anywhere in the country....at a gun show, at the mall, at a park.......


Universal Background Checks would not address this because criminals use straw buyers, people who can pass any background check to buy their guns, or they simply steal them....

You idiots only push universal background checks because you know it would require universal gun registration......which is your real goal....

Universal background checks are merely the Trojan Horse for gun registration...


Hey...how about you address my idea......

A free phone app, where you punch in the buyers identification....and you have total access to the NICS and other background check information....it would be quick, free, and it would end any argument for gun registration and any argument for permanent records of sales........and anyone, anywhere could check out the i.d. of anyone buying a gun.......

How about that, you dishonest clod?

 

[candycorn]

And you move the goal post....

You didn't address the first point......allowing people to do background checks for gun sales on a free phone app......since that app would destroy any need for gun registration....since gun registration is the only reason you want universal background checks for gun sales......you don't want to talk about it....so you move on to an entirely different issue....

You dumb ass....

No fuck stain; the goalposts are right where they always were. This brain fart of some cell phone app is all your doing. I simply asked if it is going to check the other pertinent factors in whether or not some white supremacist blob-supporting fellow fuck-stain of yours should be able to buy a gun after posting a hate-fueled manifesto where he pretty much comes right out and says he's going to attack people.

The bastard said he was going to attack people....

Should that be factored into whether he should be able to buy a gun--his saying he is going to attack someone?

 

[2aguy]

No fuck stain; the goalposts are right where they always were. This brain fart of some cell phone app is all your doing. I simply asked if it is going to check the other pertinent factors in whether or not some white supremacist blob-supporting fellow fuck-stain of yours should be able to buy a gun after posting a hate-fueled manifesto where he pretty much comes right out and says he's going to attack people.

The bastard said he was going to attack people....

Should that be factored into whether he should be able to buy a gun--his saying he is going to attack someone?

The last 3 mass public shooters? You asshat?

2 Asian senior citizens

One black guy.....who was released over and over again by democrats ....

And the phone app would end all of your dreams of registering guns for confiscation.

 

[candycorn]

The last 3 mass public shooters? You asshat?

2 Asian senior citizens

One black guy.....who was released over and over again by democrats ....

And the phone app would end all of your dreams of registering guns for confiscation.

The white supremacist--a major ally of all Trump supporters--said he was going to attack someone in his manifesto.

Will your app look into the social media accounts of gun applicants?

If not..it's worthless.

 

[2aguy]

The white supremacist--a major ally of all Trump supporters--said he was going to attack someone in his manifesto.

Will your app look into the social media accounts of gun applicants?

If not..it's worthless.

I listed the last 3......no Trump supporters among them....and the "White Supremacist?" You need to tell us which one, because the ones you guys keep claiming turned out to be leftist, enviro nut jobs......

 

[2aguy]

The white supremacist--a major ally of all Trump supporters--said he was going to attack someone in his manifesto.

Will your app look into the social media accounts of gun applicants?

If not..it's worthless.

Moron....you said background checks needed to be done for gun purchases....my app does that.....now you move the goal posts because you don't want a free app that doesn't allow you to register guns and confiscate them....

 

[candycorn]

I listed the last 3......no Trump supporters among them....and the "White Supremacist?" You need to tell us which one, because the ones you guys keep claiming turned out to be leftist, enviro nut jobs......

Leftists are not white supremacists dick breath. He's one of your buddies.

 

[candycorn]

Moron....you said background checks needed to be done for gun purchases....my app does that.....now you move the goal posts because you don't want a free app that doesn't allow you to register guns and confiscate them....

I didn't move jack shit fuckwad.

We need to tighten background checks to include social media posts. Your app proposal is about was worthless as you are.

 

[2aguy]

Leftists are not white supremacists dick breath. He's one of your buddies.

Yes...they actually are....they want a big, central government.....they are not free market capitalists.......

And again...who is the shooter you are talking about......which shooting...cause the ones you likely are bringing up were leftist eco wackos, who murdered people because they damage the environment...

 

[2aguy]

I didn't move jack shit fuckwad.

We need to tighten background checks to include social media posts. Your app proposal is about was worthless as you are.

Yep....thanks for outing yourself as a fake...my app answers your question, it would be free, and would allow any private, non business gun seller to sell their guns with a background check, instantly, and without gun registration....

So you hate the idea because you need gun registration for gun confiscation, and universal background checks is your trojan horse for registration.

My free phone app defeats that.

 

[candycorn]

Yes...they actually are....they want a big, central government.....they are not free market capitalists.......

And again...who is the shooter you are talking about......which shooting...cause the ones you likely are bringing up were leftist eco wackos, who murdered people because they damage the environment...

The Buffalo mass murderer. I may need to be more specific. The one who killed mostly black people at the Tops Grocery Store.

 

[Blues Man]

And I showed you where they didn't...twice.

Its the gun show loophole. It needs to be closed.

There is a difference between a licensed dealer and a private citizen selling his property

 

[candycorn]

Yep....thanks for outing yourself as a fake...my app answers your question, it would be free, and would allow any private, non business gun seller to sell their guns with a background check, instantly, and without gun registration....

But it wouldn't check to see if the psychopath who is buying the arsenal has recently posted that he is going to attack someone.

So, again, it's worthless.

 

[Blues Man]

Ok Candy...be a grown up......

Let's discuss my idea...

A free phone app, where you can plug in the gun buyers information, and then it checks for convictions, warrants, restraining orders through state and federal background check data bases....

No record, no fee........anyone can do it at anytime...

You for or against?

Exactly the NICS system should be open to the public free of charge.

 

[Blues Man]

It comes out? It's been there since the first post where I mentioned school shootings.


Yeah... you think there are 3M shootouts a year--every year?

Nobody believes that. Not even you.

Here is the part where you now try to "reason" that a gun doesn't have to be used to prevent a crime--thus begging the question how do we know a crime was about to be committed let alone how do we know it was going to be a violent crime.

This is 100,000 people:
View attachment 758041

You think this many people were somehow saved from a violent crime last year (and every year before that) by a gun that was not used:
View attachment 758042

once again the gun control freaks deny the fact that a gun does not have to be fired and no one has to end up dead as a result from a defensive gun use.

 

[Blues Man]

Okay lets play our game.

What is a defensive gun use?

Here is the part where you swear that a gun can be used without using it....

Also please tell us how you know a crime that was prevented was going to be a "violent crime".


I will continue to exhibit reading skills as well as common sense. You should start however.

drawing a weapon is a threat of force and most time that threat of force is enough to stop crime.

THAT is a DGU as much as shooting in self defense is