50 years later: has government dependency helped or hurt blacks?

[Flopper]

Black culture is not dysfunctional. Are you referring to criminal culture? When people are treated like animals they tend to reflect that. Overt racism is telling me I cant have a job because i am Black. Covert racism is not hiring me because I am black but saying instead I'm not a good fit. Both have the same effect. Where did you come up with the notion that racism had to be overt in order to have an effect?

But in the 1950s and 1960s, black income (which were very low after WWII) started climbing much faster than the incomes of any other group. Mostly because they worked hard, provided good families, etc. And that was during a time when racism was everywhere, Jim Crow laws in nearly every state, etc.

And then, as that started to diminish in the 1970s (though it was still around of course), black incomes suddenly levelled off, still far lower than the incomes of other racial groups.

Why did black incomes stop climbing in the 1970s through today - a time of LESS racism than in the 1950s and 1960s when black incomes were rising so fast?

Income levels for whites, blacks, wealthy and poor grew rapidly from the end of WWII into the 70's.

 

[Little-Acorn]

Black culture is not dysfunctional. Are you referring to criminal culture? When people are treated like animals they tend to reflect that. Overt racism is telling me I cant have a job because i am Black. Covert racism is not hiring me because I am black but saying instead I'm not a good fit. Both have the same effect. Where did you come up with the notion that racism had to be overt in order to have an effect?

But in the 1950s and 1960s, black income (which were very low after WWII) started climbing much faster than the incomes of any other group. Mostly because they worked hard, provided good families, etc. And that was during a time when racism was everywhere, Jim Crow laws in nearly every state, etc.

And then, as that started to diminish in the 1970s (though it was still around of course), black incomes suddenly levelled off, still far lower than the incomes of other racial groups.

Why did black incomes stop climbing in the 1970s through today - a time of LESS racism than in the 1950s and 1960s when black incomes were rising so fast?

Income levels for whites, blacks, wealthy and poor grew rapidly from the end of WWII into the 70's.

Income of black people grew far faster than the other groups. But after the 1960s that trend suddenly stopped.

Why?

(see attached chart)

 

[The Rabbi]

But in the 1950s and 1960s, black income (which were very low after WWII) started climbing much faster than the incomes of any other group. Mostly because they worked hard, provided good families, etc. And that was during a time when racism was everywhere, Jim Crow laws in nearly every state, etc.

And then, as that started to diminish in the 1970s (though it was still around of course), black incomes suddenly levelled off, still far lower than the incomes of other racial groups.

Why did black incomes stop climbing in the 1970s through today - a time of LESS racism than in the 1950s and 1960s when black incomes were rising so fast?

Income levels for whites, blacks, wealthy and poor grew rapidly from the end of WWII into the 70's.

Income of black people grew far faster than the other groups. But after the 1960s that trend suddenly stopped.

Why?

(see attached chart)

It was obviously the growth of covert racism as overt racism became outlawed. Right, Assclownias?

No. The clear reason was that Johnson's Great Society programs kicked in, increasing single family parenthood and gov't dependency. Every notice that when gov't pumps money into something to help, it makes the situation worse?

 

[Asclepias]

I'm not sure what it is that you're even talking about when you refer to "Black culture". You'll have to explain what black culture it is you're referring to.

If you're trying to say that blacks living in our inner cities are NOT dysfunctional at the moment then I'd have to respectfully disagree with you. They are extremely dysfunctional and it's a problem that isn't going to be resolved by excusing what's going on with vapid speeches about "overt" and "covert" racism. Black teens aren't getting hired because of racism. They aren't getting hired because they don't have the job skills needed.

Rabbi used the term black culture. To me Black culture consists of values, traditions, music, literature etc that we value. Blacks in the inner city are made up of lots of people. To define all Blacks in the inner city as dysfunctional is an insult. If you can explain why schools in the inner city are woefully inadequate you may have your answer as to why they lag behind.

There is a black culture like you describe. It does not predominate in inner cities.
Here's Don Lemon describing it.

Thats not Black culture. Thats a sub culture. That is a result of people still battling with a slave mindset. This is brought about by an angry back lash at racism in America. What has fueled it even further is the white suburban kids buying gangsta rap up like hot cakes. When the rappers with positive messages were showcased no one outside of the Black population really consumed to that degree. Seems like white society is eager to hear Black rap talking about gang violence, killing cops, pimpin, demoralizing women and all the other things that validate their beliefs about Black culture.

 

[The Rabbi]

Rabbi used the term black culture. To me Black culture consists of values, traditions, music, literature etc that we value. Blacks in the inner city are made up of lots of people. To define all Blacks in the inner city as dysfunctional is an insult. If you can explain why schools in the inner city are woefully inadequate you may have your answer as to why they lag behind.

There is a black culture like you describe. It does not predominate in inner cities.
Here's Don Lemon describing it.

Thats not Black culture. Thats a sub culture. That is a result of people still battling with a slave mindset. This is brought about by an angry back lash at racism in America. What has fueled it even further is the white suburban kids buying gangsta rap up like hot cakes. When the rappers with positive messages were showcased no one outside of the Black population really consumed to that degree. Seems like white society is eager to hear Black rap talking about gang violence, killing cops, pimpin, demoralizing women and all the other things that validate their beliefs about Black culture.

That is black culture. Some of it anyway. It is certainly the destructive part and the part that accounts for all the dysfunctional outcomes we've agreed on.
Attributing it to "battling a slave mindset" sounds like anyone who doesnt agree with it is an Uncle Tom.

And why the hell are you blaming white suburban kids? They don't maek this crap. Yes, they buy the records( and they dont do that anymore either). But how many Youtube videos have you seen of white kids trying to be kool outlaw gangsta rappas vs black kids?

 

[Asclepias]

There is a black culture like you describe. It does not predominate in inner cities.
Here's Don Lemon describing it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cd7Np4paRqY

Thats not Black culture. Thats a sub culture. That is a result of people still battling with a slave mindset. This is brought about by an angry back lash at racism in America. What has fueled it even further is the white suburban kids buying gangsta rap up like hot cakes. When the rappers with positive messages were showcased no one outside of the Black population really consumed to that degree. Seems like white society is eager to hear Black rap talking about gang violence, killing cops, pimpin, demoralizing women and all the other things that validate their beliefs about Black culture.

That is black culture. Some of it anyway. It is certainly the destructive part and the part that accounts for all the dysfunctional outcomes we've agreed on.
Attributing it to "battling a slave mindset" sounds like anyone who doesnt agree with it is an Uncle Tom.

And why the hell are you blaming white suburban kids? They don't maek this crap. Yes, they buy the records( and they dont do that anymore either). But how many Youtube videos have you seen of white kids trying to be kool outlaw gangsta rappas vs black kids?

No its criminal culture that all races in the US have adopted to some degree. it affects Black youth the worst because they battling factors that produce a screwed up mindset on top of being brainwashed with this music. Any black person that says just stop is just as bad a white person that has no knowledge of whats going on. The why needs to be found to deal with any issue. Problem solving 101.

Where did you see me blame white kids? I said they provide a viable market for it. Thats a fact. Get rid of all racism and there will be no anger. No anger there will be no angry, destructive sub-cultures. Do your part and I will continue to work on my part.

 

[The Rabbi]

Thats not Black culture. Thats a sub culture. That is a result of people still battling with a slave mindset. This is brought about by an angry back lash at racism in America. What has fueled it even further is the white suburban kids buying gangsta rap up like hot cakes. When the rappers with positive messages were showcased no one outside of the Black population really consumed to that degree. Seems like white society is eager to hear Black rap talking about gang violence, killing cops, pimpin, demoralizing women and all the other things that validate their beliefs about Black culture.

That is black culture. Some of it anyway. It is certainly the destructive part and the part that accounts for all the dysfunctional outcomes we've agreed on.
Attributing it to "battling a slave mindset" sounds like anyone who doesnt agree with it is an Uncle Tom.

And why the hell are you blaming white suburban kids? They don't maek this crap. Yes, they buy the records( and they dont do that anymore either). But how many Youtube videos have you seen of white kids trying to be kool outlaw gangsta rappas vs black kids?

No its criminal culture that all races in the US have adopted to some degree. it affects Black youth the worst because they battling factors that produce a screwed up mindset on top of being brainwashed with this music. Any black person that says just stop is just as bad a white person that has no knowledge of whats going on. The why needs to be found to deal with any issue. Problem solving 101.

Where did you see me blame white kids? I said they provide a viable market for it. Thats a fact. Get rid of all racism and there will be no anger. No anger there will be no angry, destructive sub-cultures. Do your part and I will continue to work on my part.

What is the black community doing to get rid of its racism?

 

[Asclepias]

That is black culture. Some of it anyway. It is certainly the destructive part and the part that accounts for all the dysfunctional outcomes we've agreed on.
Attributing it to "battling a slave mindset" sounds like anyone who doesnt agree with it is an Uncle Tom.

And why the hell are you blaming white suburban kids? They don't maek this crap. Yes, they buy the records( and they dont do that anymore either). But how many Youtube videos have you seen of white kids trying to be kool outlaw gangsta rappas vs black kids?

No its criminal culture that all races in the US have adopted to some degree. it affects Black youth the worst because they battling factors that produce a screwed up mindset on top of being brainwashed with this music. Any black person that says just stop is just as bad a white person that has no knowledge of whats going on. The why needs to be found to deal with any issue. Problem solving 101.

Where did you see me blame white kids? I said they provide a viable market for it. Thats a fact. Get rid of all racism and there will be no anger. No anger there will be no angry, destructive sub-cultures. Do your part and I will continue to work on my part.

What is the black community doing to get rid of its racism?

The same thing the white community will do to get rid of its racism.

 

[Pheonixops]

Number and percentage of people receiving public assistance, by sex, race/ethnicity, and age group: Selected years, 1980 through 2009

2009: Americans on public assistance: 19,670,000

Percentages:

Percentage of Americans receiving public assistance in 2009: 6.5%

% White: 4.4%
% Black: 13.5%
Hispanic: 8.7%
Asian/Pacific Islanders: 5.9%
Native Americans/Eskimos: 16.1%

Males: 6.1%
Females: 6.8%

Great stats but the reality is more whites will be effected if we do away with welfare bottom line. You can percent it to death but thats the reality. Whites seem to be fixated on Black issues they too are suffering but somehow Blacks are the problem? What is the problem with the whites on welfare? They have fewer obstacles in their way. what is their issue? Another thing I noticed about the stats is that the 2 groups in the US that were raped the worst have the highest welfare percentage. You still think racism has nothing to do with it?

That's what I find to be the great "irony"; you have some self described "conservatives" who claim that they "don't see color" and "concentrate on the individual", yet they they tend to focus on "the Blacks". What happened to all of that "color blind", "concentrate on the individual" crap that they spout? Why wouldn't they just talk about the INDIVIDUALS who are on welfare and the INDIVIDUALS who have the other problems?

 

[Asclepias]

Number and percentage of people receiving public assistance, by sex, race/ethnicity, and age group: Selected years, 1980 through 2009

2009: Americans on public assistance: 19,670,000

Percentages:

Percentage of Americans receiving public assistance in 2009: 6.5%

% White: 4.4%
% Black: 13.5%
Hispanic: 8.7%
Asian/Pacific Islanders: 5.9%
Native Americans/Eskimos: 16.1%

Males: 6.1%
Females: 6.8%

Great stats but the reality is more whites will be effected if we do away with welfare bottom line. You can percent it to death but thats the reality. Whites seem to be fixated on Black issues they too are suffering but somehow Blacks are the problem? What is the problem with the whites on welfare? They have fewer obstacles in their way. what is their issue? Another thing I noticed about the stats is that the 2 groups in the US that were raped the worst have the highest welfare percentage. You still think racism has nothing to do with it?

That's what I find to be the great "irony"; you have some self described "conservatives" who claim that they "don't see color" and "concentrate on the individual", yet they they tend to focus on "the Blacks". What happened to all of that "color blind", "concentrate on the individual" crap that they spout? Why wouldn't they just talk about the INDIVIDUALS who are on welfare and the INDIVIDUALS who have the other problems?

Racism is big business in this country. Both parties use it to distract from what is really going on. Politicians point and say look at those people taking your jobs. People start stockpiling ammo for the race war.

 

[Pheonixops]

But in the 1950s and 1960s, black income (which were very low after WWII) started climbing much faster than the incomes of any other group. Mostly because they worked hard, provided good families, etc. And that was during a time when racism was everywhere, Jim Crow laws in nearly every state, etc.

And then, as that started to diminish in the 1970s (though it was still around of course), black incomes suddenly levelled off, still far lower than the incomes of other racial groups.

Why did black incomes stop climbing in the 1970s through today - a time of LESS racism than in the 1950s and 1960s when black incomes were rising so fast?

Income levels for whites, blacks, wealthy and poor grew rapidly from the end of WWII into the 70's.

Income of black people grew far faster than the other groups. But after the 1960s that trend suddenly stopped.

Why?

(see attached chart)

It looks like it leveled off but still was on an upward trend. I wonder if that huge jump in the 1960's had something to do with LBJ's initiatives?
"Johnson's tax cut measure triggered what one historian described as "the greatest prosperity of the postwar years." GNP increased by 7% in 1964, 8% in 1965, and 9% in 1966. The unemployment rate fell below 5%, and by 1966 the number of families with incomes of $7,000 a year or more had reached 55%, compared with 22% in 1950. In 1968, when John Kenneth Galbraith published a new edition of The Affluent Society, the average income of the American family stood at $8,000, double what it had been a decade earlier.[4]

Disposable personal income rose 15% in 1966 alone. Federal revenues increased dramatically from $94 billion in 1961 to $150 billion in 1967. As the Baby Boom generation aged, two and a half times more Americans would enter the labor force between 1965 and 1980 than had between 1950 and 1965."
Great Society - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Oldstyle]

Rabbi used the term black culture. To me Black culture consists of values, traditions, music, literature etc that we value. Blacks in the inner city are made up of lots of people. To define all Blacks in the inner city as dysfunctional is an insult. If you can explain why schools in the inner city are woefully inadequate you may have your answer as to why they lag behind.

There is a black culture like you describe. It does not predominate in inner cities.
Here's Don Lemon describing it.

Thats not Black culture. Thats a sub culture. That is a result of people still battling with a slave mindset. This is brought about by an angry back lash at racism in America. What has fueled it even further is the white suburban kids buying gangsta rap up like hot cakes. When the rappers with positive messages were showcased no one outside of the Black population really consumed to that degree. Seems like white society is eager to hear Black rap talking about gang violence, killing cops, pimpin, demoralizing women and all the other things that validate their beliefs about Black culture.

You continue to amuse. Now black on black crime in the inner city is the fault of white suburban kids buying gangsta rap and inner city blacks are only embracing the "thug" lifestyle because they think it sells? Do you REALLY believe the nonsense that you spout here?

It's a lot closer to the truth that suburban white kids imitate blacks from the inner city for the same reason kids from my generation imitated the punk cuture thirty years ago..they do it because they want to rebel against their parents. They can't grow their hair out or get tattoos because mom and dad have already been there and done that.

You might want to step back and ask what this generation is going to do with the rest of their lives as soon as "gangsta" becomes as lame as "punk". They've throw away the opportunity to get an education because, as Don Lemon pointed out, learning is a "white" thing and looked down upon by the modern urban black culture. The idiocy of that concept is staggering. "Learning" is the only way to get out of poverty. It's why generations of immigrants to this country worked two or even three jobs to send their kids to school so they would have a better life. Where is THAT in the black urban culture?

 

[kaz]

What is the black community doing to get rid of its racism?

The same thing the white community will do to get rid of its racism.

In the white community, we recognize there are racists, but we look down on them and mock them for their shallow stupidity. In the black community, they call them civil rights leaders. That's not the same at all.

 

[Asclepias]

There is a black culture like you describe. It does not predominate in inner cities.
Here's Don Lemon describing it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cd7Np4paRqY

Thats not Black culture. Thats a sub culture. That is a result of people still battling with a slave mindset. This is brought about by an angry back lash at racism in America. What has fueled it even further is the white suburban kids buying gangsta rap up like hot cakes. When the rappers with positive messages were showcased no one outside of the Black population really consumed to that degree. Seems like white society is eager to hear Black rap talking about gang violence, killing cops, pimpin, demoralizing women and all the other things that validate their beliefs about Black culture.

You continue to amuse. Now black on black crime in the inner city is the fault of white suburban kids buying gangsta rap and inner city blacks are only embracing the "thug" lifestyle because they think it sells? Do you REALLY believe the nonsense that you spout here?

It's a lot closer to the truth that suburban white kids imitate blacks from the inner city for the same reason kids from my generation imitated the punk cuture thirty years ago..they do it because they want to rebel against their parents. They can't grow their hair out or get tattoos because mom and dad have already been there and done that.

You might want to step back and ask what this generation is going to do with the rest of their lives as soon as "gangsta" becomes as lame as "punk". They've throw away the opportunity to get an education because, as Don Lemon pointed out, learning is a "white" thing and looked down upon by the modern urban black culture. The idiocy of that concept is staggering. "Learning" is the only way to get out of poverty. It's why generations of immigrants to this country worked two or even three jobs to send their kids to school so they would have a better life. Where is THAT in the black urban culture?

Evidently you missed the part where I said it was not the fault of white kids. I merely stated they provided a lucrative consumer base for it. Thats a fact. Don Lemon doesnt know what he is talking about. its not looked down as a "white thing" its looked down on as being stupid or square because everyone knows "you cant make no money working for someone else". What these kids have a problem with is being willing to wait for the results of hard work to end up with a better lifestyle.

 

[The Rabbi]

No its criminal culture that all races in the US have adopted to some degree. it affects Black youth the worst because they battling factors that produce a screwed up mindset on top of being brainwashed with this music. Any black person that says just stop is just as bad a white person that has no knowledge of whats going on. The why needs to be found to deal with any issue. Problem solving 101.

Where did you see me blame white kids? I said they provide a viable market for it. Thats a fact. Get rid of all racism and there will be no anger. No anger there will be no angry, destructive sub-cultures. Do your part and I will continue to work on my part.

What is the black community doing to get rid of its racism?

The same thing the white community will do to get rid of its racism.

What a cop out.
The white community has largely put racism behind it. It is socially unacceptable as well as legally prohibited.
The black community engages in the most outrageous racism against whites scot free.

The black community--the inner city one that is responsible for crime and low achievement--is in the situation they are because of anti-social failing mores and actions. This is the view of such noted racists as Bill Cosby. Blaming whitey and racism is a cop out of responsibility and simply wrong.

 

[kaz]

The black community engages in the most outrageous racism against whites scot free.

The black community--the inner city one that is responsible for crime and low achievement--is in the situation they are because of anti-social failing mores and actions. This is the view of such noted racists as Bill Cosby. Blaming whitey and racism is a cop out of responsibility and simply wrong.

The left actually fans the flames of black racism. It's pathetic.

That's what Obama could have done for his country on the 50th anniversary of the MLK speech that would have sealed a great legacy no matter how horrible a President he is. Imagine him coming out and saying the war is won. No, it's not perfect, but it's time to put this behind us, and that means blacks as well need to just start taking responsibility for their own lives and stop making excuses. I mean not only do we have a black President, but he's a complete mediocrity in his career, his grades and his intelligence.

I know he's have never done that. The left won't hear of it, and Obama is leading the pack just pushing hatred and bigotry forward. But wow, what if...

 

[Asclepias]

What is the black community doing to get rid of its racism?

The same thing the white community will do to get rid of its racism.

In the white community, we recognize there are racists, but we look down on them and mock them for their shallow stupidity. In the black community, they call them civil rights leaders. That's not the same at all.

You're badly misinformed. We shake our heads at people that are racists. We can empathize but we dont agree with them.

 

[kaz]

The same thing the white community will do to get rid of its racism.

In the white community, we recognize there are racists, but we look down on them and mock them for their shallow stupidity. In the black community, they call them civil rights leaders. That's not the same at all.

You're badly misinformed. We shake our heads at people that are racists. We can empathize but we dont agree with them.

So why are you so silent about Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson?

 

[Asclepias]

What is the black community doing to get rid of its racism?

The same thing the white community will do to get rid of its racism.

What a cop out.
The white community has largely put racism behind it. It is socially unacceptable as well as legally prohibited.
The black community engages in the most outrageous racism against whites scot free.

The black community--the inner city one that is responsible for crime and low achievement--is in the situation they are because of anti-social failing mores and actions. This is the view of such noted racists as Bill Cosby. Blaming whitey and racism is a cop out of responsibility and simply wrong.

I had to laugh at your second sentence. There are more racists on this board than i thought would ever be possible. Those are just the blatant ones that are KKK members. there are a lot of others on here I think are racist but don't realize it. I am going with the notion that these boards just attract the divisive type and holding out hope you are right. Racism is not illegal and I dont know where you got that from. Discrimination is illegal in certain situations. Can you tell me where the Black community gets a free pass for being racist? You seem to keep missing it. I dont blame white people for failures at all. I only blame the racist ones for putting up additional road blocks and then crying about the results. People give up when they dont have hope. A child born in the ghetto almost has to be super human in order to be successful. I'd love to see what whites would do if placed in the same situation for as long as Blacks have had to endure.

 

[Asclepias]

In the white community, we recognize there are racists, but we look down on them and mock them for their shallow stupidity. In the black community, they call them civil rights leaders. That's not the same at all.

You're badly misinformed. We shake our heads at people that are racists. We can empathize but we dont agree with them.

So why are you so silent about Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson?

What do you mean by silent?