5th graders conspire to commit murder

[Unkotare]

We are a culture of death. It's rampant in our media, movies, everyday conversation, everything. It's glorified and dramatized in every evening's TV watching and in video games. We pave over forests, we run over roadkill, we spray crops with poison. We've got a guy in this forum category proclaiming the "most wonderful time of the year" is a gun show. We've got a dominant religion that impales a guy on a cross in helpless agony. And we've been at war in one place or another for my entire lifetime.

We're infatuated with death. It's inevitable that it would rub off on children. That's what culture does.

What an incredibly ignorant, empty, emotive pile of nonsense that was.

 

[wavingrl]

We are a culture of death. It's rampant in our media, movies, everyday conversation, everything. It's glorified and dramatized in every evening's TV watching and in video games. We pave over forests, we run over roadkill, we spray crops with poison. We've got a guy in this forum category proclaiming the "most wonderful time of the year" is a gun show. We've got a dominant religion that impales a guy on a cross in helpless agony. And we've been at war in one place or another for my entire lifetime.

We're infatuated with death. It's inevitable that it would rub off on children. That's what culture does.

Death is as natural a part of living as being born. Should we ignore it, or hide it?

Neither. We should respect it. And that means to quit working it into every metaphor, the mentality of dealing with every issue by overpowering it-slash-taking its life away. It means to quit marginalizing and trivializing it by slavishly incorporating it into every last TV and movie script and video game and comic book.

I agree with that.

I googled Fort Coville Elementary, Spokane, WA--from a very brief overview it seems to be a good school. It is a Virtual Academy--technology is its focus it would seem.

http://www.colsd.org/cms/lib6/WA010.../63/report cards/Fort Report Card 2011-12.pdf

Leaping to a conclusion--so these students are the sort who might follow in the footsteps of the Columbine shooters. That infuriates me and I have no sympathy for them.

They listed local attractions available to students for field trips. Some really fascinating places that could be of interest.

 

[Unkotare]

You can't muddle through a simple philosophical analysis?

It would be more accurate to call that ridiculous post a simpleton's clumsy attempt at philosophy.

 

[Pogo]

We are a culture of death. It's rampant in our media, movies, everyday conversation, everything. It's glorified and dramatized in every evening's TV watching and in video games. We pave over forests, we run over roadkill, we spray crops with poison. We've got a guy in this forum category proclaiming the "most wonderful time of the year" is a gun show. We've got a dominant religion that impales a guy on a cross in helpless agony. And we've been at war in one place or another for my entire lifetime.

We're infatuated with death. It's inevitable that it would rub off on children. That's what culture does.

What an incredibly ignorant, empty, emotive pile of nonsense that was.

Uncle Trollie can't get his head around a statement of simple spirituality any more than he can grok simple logic.
What a shocker that is. Stop the presses.

 

[AmyNation]

You only read what confirms your world view KG, and disreguard all facts that don't.

Excuse me, this is from the woman who repeatedly ignored the line in the Romeo and Juliet Law that said "sex between minors is technically illegal" and then went on to pipe, over and over, that the R&J law made it legal for kids to have sex.

What a dishonest, hypocritical twat you are.

No where in the Tennessee law did it say that. See, you only see what you want, which is why I stopped addressing you in that thread. So of course you have to bring that topic in to this one, which has nothing to do with gay kids.

 

[syrenn]

Two 5th grade boys, ages 10 and 11, charged in murder conspiracy - UPI.com

"We've been told that the boys had a plan to kill an ex-girlfriend ... and harm other students," Cashion said. "There was no list, but names were given to the police."

The world has gone to hell in a handbasket, what kind of 5th graders have "ex girlfriends"???? 10 and 11 years old, they're still CHILDREN.

and hopefully they spend the next 20 or so years of their lives in prison.

 

[wavingrl]

Two 5th grade boys, ages 10 and 11, charged in murder conspiracy - UPI.com

"We've been told that the boys had a plan to kill an ex-girlfriend ... and harm other students," Cashion said. "There was no list, but names were given to the police."

The world has gone to hell in a handbasket, what kind of 5th graders have "ex girlfriends"???? 10 and 11 years old, they're still CHILDREN.

and hopefully they spend the next 20 or so years of their lives in prison.

It would be interesting to know how this matter will be resolved.

More than likely they will be eligible for some sort of diversion program. From a quick glance at the school district --it is small and didn't list 'alternative' schools. I wouldn't think they would allow them to return to that school.

I can't think of a comparable local situation.

A 12 yr old killed her 2 yr old stepsister and she is awaiting trial in jail/juvenile detention and a psychiatric evaluation. She seemed to have 'snapped'--left alone with the 2 yr old and one or two other children, I believe. We have several alternative schools for high risk students here.

 

[Unkotare]

We are a culture of death. It's rampant in our media, movies, everyday conversation, everything. It's glorified and dramatized in every evening's TV watching and in video games. We pave over forests, we run over roadkill, we spray crops with poison. We've got a guy in this forum category proclaiming the "most wonderful time of the year" is a gun show. We've got a dominant religion that impales a guy on a cross in helpless agony. And we've been at war in one place or another for my entire lifetime.

We're infatuated with death. It's inevitable that it would rub off on children. That's what culture does.

What an incredibly ignorant, empty, emotive pile of nonsense that was.

Uncle Trollie can't get his head around a statement of simple spirituality any more than he can grok simple logic.
What a shocker that is. Stop the presses.

You've more than demonstrated your inability to handle either. That's why you continue to humiliate yourself with your misunderstanding of logic and play the clown with your laughably shallow and inept attempts at philosophizing.

 

[syrenn]

Two 5th grade boys, ages 10 and 11, charged in murder conspiracy - UPI.com

"We've been told that the boys had a plan to kill an ex-girlfriend ... and harm other students," Cashion said. "There was no list, but names were given to the police."

The world has gone to hell in a handbasket, what kind of 5th graders have "ex girlfriends"???? 10 and 11 years old, they're still CHILDREN.

and hopefully they spend the next 20 or so years of their lives in prison.

It would be interesting to know how this matter will be resolved.

More than likely they will be eligible for some sort of diversion program. From a quick glance at the school district --it is small and didn't list 'alternative' schools. I wouldn't think they would allow them to return to that school.

I can't think of a comparable local situation.

A 12 yr old killed her 2 yr old stepsister and she is awaiting trial in jail/juvenile detention and a psychiatric evaluation. She seemed to have 'snapped'--left alone with the 2 yr old and one or two other children, I believe. We have several alternative schools for high risk students here.

neither of them should ever be allowed back into any school, public or private. Best thing for them is prison and any schooling they can receive there.

 

[AmyNation]

Two 5th grade boys, ages 10 and 11, charged in murder conspiracy - UPI.com

"We've been told that the boys had a plan to kill an ex-girlfriend ... and harm other students," Cashion said. "There was no list, but names were given to the police."

The world has gone to hell in a handbasket, what kind of 5th graders have "ex girlfriends"???? 10 and 11 years old, they're still CHILDREN.

and hopefully they spend the next 20 or so years of their lives in prison.

They won't. Adults often don't get that long in these type of cases, let alone children.

 

[syrenn]

Two 5th grade boys, ages 10 and 11, charged in murder conspiracy - UPI.com

"We've been told that the boys had a plan to kill an ex-girlfriend ... and harm other students," Cashion said. "There was no list, but names were given to the police."

The world has gone to hell in a handbasket, what kind of 5th graders have "ex girlfriends"???? 10 and 11 years old, they're still CHILDREN.

and hopefully they spend the next 20 or so years of their lives in prison.

They won't. Adults often don't get that long in these type of cases, let alone children.

sad but true.... it still does not change what i would hope though. These are little criminals who will grow up to be large criminals. We should just lock them up now and be done with it.

 

[AmyNation]

Children are treated differently than adult offenders for a reason, not just because we feel bad that they are young. Their brains are not developed completely, especially not at the age of 10. They don't have the ability to full understand consequences. Also, children are much much easier to reform than adults. With the right treatment(and depending on what's wrong with them) they have a much higher rate of success then adult offenders.

 

[syrenn]

Children are treated differently than adult offenders for a reason, not just because we feel bad that they are young. Their brains are not developed completely, especially not at the age of 10. They don't have the ability to full understand consequences. Also, children are much much easier to reform than adults. With the right treatment(and depending on what's wrong with them) they have a much higher rate of success then adult offenders.

i know that amy.


And i really dont care. They pulled and adult crime and should be punished as adults.

 

[AmyNation]

Children are treated differently than adult offenders for a reason, not just because we feel bad that they are young. Their brains are not developed completely, especially not at the age of 10. They don't have the ability to full understand consequences. Also, children are much much easier to reform than adults. With the right treatment(and depending on what's wrong with them) they have a much higher rate of success then adult offenders.

i know that amy.


And i really dont care. They pulled and adult crime and should be punished as adults.

I know, I still felt the need to point it out

 

[koshergrl]

and hopefully they spend the next 20 or so years of their lives in prison.

They won't. Adults often don't get that long in these type of cases, let alone children.

sad but true.... it still does not change what i would hope though. These are little criminals who will grow up to be large criminals. We should just lock them up now and be done with it.

Sometimes you sound so much like...let me think...

 

[Oldguy]

I think I'll query my friends and acquaintances of about the same age and see if I'm way off base or not.

I'm going to resurrect this thread to report that I did, indeed, ask my friends of a certain age whether or not my remembrances were way off the mark. They weren't. In fact, they seem to be spot on.

Here's the responses I got:



"i remeber my school days as you desribe but i believe that the main ingredient that is missing from todays family are the values taught through the teachings we were rasised with ...GOD is missing in the hectic lives that have evolved --prices are so high that both parents try to work so they can give thier younguns a better life than what they had---opinion-- we did't have all the STUFF that has been invented so we didn't miss it..if you got a whopping in school u could bet on getting another at HOME ..i don't think it hurt our generation nor the ones that percieved ours....actually i believe it made us stronger." (Male-60's)



"The conditions you mentioned were ALL there when I went to school - Don't remember much about grade school happenings but definitely in junior high and high school." (Male-60's)



"First and final point-MEMORY IS PLASTIC-no one remembers the same thing the same way even twice-research (Scientific American Mag) has shown that every time we "remember" we edit that memory depending on our mood-that said, I was in govt schools all but the 1st and 2nd grades and I do remember guys had knives n there were fights but we were being taught by mostly prior military service people who expected discipline to b rigid and punishments to b levied on the military parent as well as the child. I was an Air Force brat and was taught that my behavior (as well as my mother's) would determine my father's advancement thru the ranks. We were pretty controlled in school as most of the kids were very aware of what their behavior could to to their parent." (Female-60's)



"I don't recall any guns being used or brandished at school. However, it
wasn't uncommon to see a rifle or a shotgun in a rifle rack in a pickup
truck. Having been in a few fights, most all of them, except one involved NO
weapons. The one that did involve a weapon had it taken away from him and
then was urged on to continue to fight me. I have never witnessed a teacher/
student fight because the teachers I had wouldn't take any shit. I've also
never seen a fight "encouraged" by ANY of my teachers. Generally, those
caught fighting got sent to the Principal's Office.

I do recall boys generally carrying knives. They were rarely, if ever used
in a fight. There were those few who carried an illegal switchblade.

I was never robbed. However, there were those inclined to bully. Fights &
threats, sure. The threats were more like, "I'm gonna kick your ass". I
don't know why kids are taking guns to school and killing other kids. I
could maybe grasp some of the teachers being threatened or killed. That's
pretty iffy, at best.

I DO recall my step-dad watching me get into a fight and he didn't step in.
He just let us duke it out. That kid & I went at each other for a few years.

As far as pregnant girls, I don't remember too many, if any at all. Most of
them dropped out of school for a while and then returned after having their
baby. I don't remember sex in the bathrooms, but there were plenty of cars
rocking & rolling. " (Male-50's)



"You hit the nail on the head on this one, yes we did have a lot of violence in all schools way back when. whenever someone got into a fight with another, we settled our differences and went on. No one pulled a gun or a knife on anyone way back when. We always had diciplene back then to, I think the worst part was being sent to the superindents office for some sort of disiplene,(heck can't spell it right,) I can'[t recall any fights between students and teachers. I do know a couple of male teachers had sex with some of the senior girls after school, and some of the guys would sneak off with thier girl friends during class and find a secluded spot. One time a teacher was banging this gal, and her boyfriend and another gal sneaked off and found them in a closet under the stairs. Talk about instant oops." (Male-60's)




"MY school's also had the ingrediants of a self-righteous,dissorderly manner. Things haven't changed all that much! I cut a boy's shirt with my pocket knife------------my younger sister was caught with several bottles of vodka in her locker." (Male-60's)



"Fights were pretty common, most male students had rifles and/or shotguns in racks on the rear window of their pickups.

Sex was where ever you could talk her into. Many students in Grade School brought some type of gun for show-and--tell.

When I was in high school, you had a designated smoking area for students, and before, after, between classes, and during lunch, drugs were available for purchase, from pot, ludes, white-crosses, coke, valium, por acid.

Many students brought alcohol to school or school functions. In Ninth Grade we had several students OD, and start dropping like flies at lunch, to be taken by ambulance to the hospital to have their stomached pumped.

We had a few students commit suicide by ODing or shooting themselves. Several died in auto accidents. We had married students, unwed mothers, and lots of pregnancy.

I am married to the Love of my Life, she is 4 years younger than me. We married 4 days after her 16th birthday in August of 1984, and my son was born in December of the same year. I'm not proud of the mistakes we made, but I would not undo them if I could.

I believe we were raised in a more violent time than the latest generation, you just didn't hear about all the other violence in the US, or the World. Tough love was expected, and even encouraged. If you we're caught doing something you shouldn't have been doing, the person that caught you would whip you, then you got it again when you got home, and everyone did and expected the same for their kids." (Male-50's)

 

[koshergrl]

I don't think it was more violent. I think violence was more likely to be condoned by the establishment...largely because it wasn't so common, so regulated, and because there was the understanding that people could, and would, regulate their own.

But crime was bad, because it was immoral..and it was immoral because the bible told us so.

These days nothing is *bad*...everything is *relative* and God, and the bible, and morality, are all frowned upon, and any references to them discourage. History has been revised so that there are no heroes, only villains...and the anti-hero (previous villains) are held up for worship.

We're taught to despise Columbus, because he dared to venture forth and conquer the New World, bringing pestilence and (horrors) disease to the Indians....

We are taught that promiscuity is acceptable, even admirable, and marriage is a mere slip of paper that is nothing special.

We're taught that children are a curse, disposable, and men are completely unnecessary to the family unit.

Criminals are glorified in modern music and on the silver screen, and women who eschew worldliness, who devote themselves to their churches and their families, are objects of ridicule..while women who get abortions and men who live openly homosexual lives are acclaimed.

The result? Increased crime, a reduction in education and intelligence, the general degradation of man.....

 

[wavingrl]

I found another article on the WA conspiracy kids.

When they were taken into custody they showed no remorse. Their conversation included remarks like--'When I find out who told I am going to kill them when I get out of jail.'

They said the 'ex girlfriend' had been mean --and they admitted they really wanted to kill her. One kid stole the gun from his grandfather I think.

I can only assume that prior to this there had been other disciplinary issues. A teenager or younger killed members of his family somewhere in Michigan, Minnesota--that area a year or so ago. I think it was disclosed that his father was abusive---at any rate lack of a stable and wholesome family life was a major factor.

I enjoy reading posts from members of my high school on Facebook. They care about their families, friends and others. So maybe that sort of tradition is also being perpetuated.

 

[koshergrl]

Kids are really nothing more than strong, smart animals...if they have no guidance. I'm not sure a 10 year old has the capability to feel remorse for something they haven't actually done....I think remorse is an adult emotion.

 

[tjvh]

Two 5th grade boys, ages 10 and 11, charged in murder conspiracy - UPI.com

"We've been told that the boys had a plan to kill an ex-girlfriend ... and harm other students," Cashion said. "There was no list, but names were given to the police."

The world has gone to hell in a handbasket, what kind of 5th graders have "ex girlfriends"???? 10 and 11 years old, they're still CHILDREN.

This is what happens when the State raises children instead of their parents. I'm sure these children have been in that babysitting program called Head Start since they were barely able to walk, all well their single mommies banged the cash registers for twelve hours a day at Wal-Mart.