80-year-old Palestinian man remembers destroyed village of his youth

[Billo_Really]

And, let's not forget the five Egyptian Christians killed at a wedding.

Attacks on Christians by Islamic militants rise in Egypt - CBS News There is video of this news story.

(CBS News) CAIRO - A top leader of the Muslim Brotherhood was arrested Wednesday by the military government. It's part of the crackdown on the Brotherhood, which advocates a strict Islamic government. Essam El-Erian went into hiding when the military ousted President Mohammed Morsi. Since then, Islamic militants have stepped up attacks on Christians.

While this may be a new story, it is often repeated in the Middle East.
​

Here's another one who can't seem to comment on the OP!

 

[Billo_Really]

And of course there are thousands of Jerusalemites who were force out of their homes at gunpoint, by the Jordanian Army - simply because they were Jews. They remember how life was before they were besieged and shelled and given an hour to get out.......

Then there are the hundreds of thousands of people from all over the ME who were ordered out of their homes and off their land by various Arab League governments - stripped of their citizenship, all they owned stolen from them, before they were dumped at the border. And this was done ONLY because those people were Jews.

Yet the OP has never once acknowledged that any of this was done - that these people were targeted for this ethnic cleansing because they were Jews.

3 hijackers in a row, trying to change the subject of the OP.

 

[Billo_Really]

The " Christian" never had any comment about Muslims killing Christians. " Jesus" forgot to teach her that

Now we have 4 in a row, trying to change the subject of the OP.

 

[Billo_Really]

Jesus didn't have to contend with Muslims. They weren't spawned yet.

And now for the repeat hijack attempts.

 

[Billo_Really]

The OP

And one lunatic who can't seem to say anything at all.

 

[Billo_Really]

Around 800,000 Palestinians were expelled from their homes inside Israel during the 1948 conflict that led to the creation of the State of Israel, and today their descendants number around five million, spread across the world.

How cruel that the Arab armies forced so many of arab beggars and squatters to flee so that the hoped-for Jew genocide could get underway.

On the other hand, and speaking of genocide, the huge increase in numbers of Pal-arabs directly contradicts the screeching coming from Sherri with her continued conspiracy theory promotion of some claimed "genocide" of the Pal-arabs.

There must be some explanation she can cut and paste from Maan News Agency, AKA, The Conspiracy Network.

Hey, Hollie gets the prize for being the first one to stay on topic. But that's all she did. Her argument consists of total bullshit and one ad hominem.

 

[Billo_Really]

HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS of people were displaced in the time period to which
baby murdering isa-respecting sow refers------but the isa-respecting sow ---has
decided that only a very few were important. Of course it is a great tragedy that
so many of the displaced persons have been uses as PAWNS by their fellow
isa -respecting pigs and dogs for the past 80 and more years HUNDREDS
of millions far more lucky were embraced by their own-------and now live
like human beings

Here we have the 5th poster trying to hijack the thread into a different subject.

 

[Billo_Really]

I remember my grandmama used to dream about the ranch her father used to own when she was a child. it had open fields where they raised their food, and a great valley to run into as a small girl.

She remembered vividly how the arab teens came, burned down her house, set the fields on fire, and forced their family away. She remembered each scent, each flower, each stone.

I don't recall her obsessing over coming back. Her house was destroyed. So is this man's village.

Time to move on.

That's what I say to you and your so-called ancestral home.

I think it's time you Zionists moved on as well.

 

[Billo_Really]

Indeed.

The Jews managed to hold onto their dream for 1,878 years; from the Sack of Jerusalem by Titus in 70 AD, to the establishment of the State of Israel in 1948.

That dream is not yet fully realized but they're getting there... their goal is nearly achieved.

As soon as they complete their Final Solution.

 

[Billo_Really]

80 year old people generally remember things theywished would be. Pictures from 80 years ago normally show a bunch of ragged urchins in front of a hovel in the midst of a collection of hovels, grassless yards with stray goats and yapping mongrels. Paradise lost.

More like paradise stolen.

 

[Billo_Really]

Incorrect.

Sand holds that most of the Jews of today are the descendants of peoples unrelated to the original Hebrew tribes, whom converted to Judaism both prior-to and after the Sack of Jerusalem in 70 AD.

There is much to commend his perspective and he may very well be correct that many of the Jews of our modern age are not genetic descendants of the members of the original Hebrew tribes.

But the Sack of Jerusalem of 70 AD by Titus is real.

The dream of Judaism (both the exiles of the Israel-Judah Diaspora and their pre- and post-Diaspora Convert-Descendants) - collectively - has, indeed, been focused upon a return to Jerusalem and to the lands formerly comprising the Kingdoms of Israel and Judea, as documented repeatedly in their prayers and dogma and literature over the centuries.

I did not say that all Jews today are generic descendants of the Twelve Tribes.

I said that the Jews (both genetic and spiritual inheritors of the Twelve Tribes) have held their Dream together for 1878 years.

My observation is entirely accurate and true.

Then how come there is no evidence of the diaspora?

Furthermore, Sands logic is pretty solid. Back in that time, there was no physical means available to move a population that size, that distance, over the desert. The logistics to cover a feat like that, didn't exist.

 

[Hossfly]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ktWKNxq7Wk&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Shlomo Sand, Israel has no rights in the land, another Zionist lie debunked.

I am willing to bet that Frau Sherri would never reference Menashe Harel, an award winning Jewish historian who also is a professor at an Israeli university. Perhaps Frau Sherri can read some of Professor Harel's scholarly books and then call him up in Israel and tell him he is a Zionist liar.
Amazon.com: Menashe Harel: Books

 

[Hossfly]

Why, Frau Sherri, no doubt there are 80-year olds who survived the war in Europe and remember the towns that they and their ancestors lived in for thousands of years. However, these people are not obsessing over it but have gone on with their lives. Of course, there are probably millions of Hindus who remember the towns they had to leave when their land was carved off to make the country of Pakistan. Don't you think that all those Christians from Syria who have become refugees will remember their little towns in years to come; however, I think they will have the fortitude to eventually make new lives for themselves elsewhere.

That has nothing to do with the OP!

You always have to hijack the thread into a different subject, don't you?

That is one of Loinboy's favorite shticks even when my post is apropos. There have been millions and millions of people displaced for ages, and somehow they seem to have gotten on with their lives, which of course Loinboy completely ignores since it has nothing to do with the Jews. Meanwhile, Loinboy, since you are on the Middle East forum, can you tell us what is going on in the rest of the Middle East countries or don't you care? You have been so silent that one would think that you are just obsessed with what is happening in only one tiny area of the Middle East when the Middle East is actually so huge and innocent people are being killed all the time in the name of a religion.

 

[Hossfly]

And of course there are thousands of Jerusalemites who were force out of their homes at gunpoint, by the Jordanian Army - simply because they were Jews. They remember how life was before they were besieged and shelled and given an hour to get out.......

Then there are the hundreds of thousands of people from all over the ME who were ordered out of their homes and off their land by various Arab League governments - stripped of their citizenship, all they owned stolen from them, before they were dumped at the border. And this was done ONLY because those people were Jews.

Yet the OP has never once acknowledged that any of this was done - that these people were targeted for this ethnic cleansing because they were Jews.

3 hijackers in a row, trying to change the subject of the OP.

Why don't you stop spamming the thread, boy.

 

[Billo_Really]

Why don't you stop spamming the thread, boy.

Why don't you stay on topic, junior?

 

[Kondor3]

Indeed.

The Jews managed to hold onto their dream for 1,878 years; from the Sack of Jerusalem by Titus in 70 AD, to the establishment of the State of Israel in 1948.

That dream is not yet fully realized but they're getting there... their goal is nearly achieved.

As soon as they complete their Final Solution.

No, any 'Final Solution' (in an implied Nazi-like context) is a purely Palestinian ideal.

We need look no further than the former Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, Haj Amin al-Husseini (1897-1974), or his hero-worshipper, Yassir Arafat, or the Palestinian militias with their Nazi salutes, and their decades-old sworn pledges to drive the Jews into the Med, in order to find true Nazi connections...

If the Israelis get nasty, all they'll do is Evict the Palestinians and Expel them, pushing them across the borders with Jordan and Lebanon, but they'll still be alive...

If the Palestinians get the chance to get nasty, they'll slit Jewish throats until there are none left...

Even within the domain of Nasty, the Israelis come-up smelling like roses and Humanists compared to their Adversaries...

 

[Kondor3]

"...Then how come there is no evidence of the diaspora?..."

First, the world has to deal with Holocaust Denial, and now Diaspora Denial?

I don't think so.

We can start with the writings of Josephus and toss-in goodies like the Arch of Titus and then start branching outwards from there.

In actuality, though, if you want to play with Diaspora Denial, in the face of 1900 years of acceptance of the accounts of Josephus, you're gonna have to go it alone on that one.

"...Furthermore, Sands logic is pretty solid. Back in that time, there was no physical means available to move a population that size, that distance, over the desert. The logistics to cover a feat like that, didn't exist."

My own No. 54 on this thread ( http://www.usmessageboard.com/middle-east-general/322339-80-year-old-palestinian-man-remembers-destroyed-village-of-his-youth-4.html#post8098371 ) describes a centuries-long battering of the Jews of the region in order to describe a Disapora which spanned such a timeframe.

But very large segments of the population were, indeed, subjugated and enslaved and transported at various times, and this was accomplished over the infrastructure and logistics capabilities of Antiquity.

Even merely within a Jewish-Hebrew-Israelite context we can look to the well-documented (by both sides) Babylonian Captivity in which much of the Hebrew population of the region was forcibly relocated to Babylonian territory (modern-day Iraq).

As to your support for Sands' logic pertaining to infrastructure and logistics, in denying any large-scale Disapora Event at the time of the Sack of Jerusalem (70 AD) and subsequent wars and rebellions between the two parties in the 70 years following the Sack of Jerusalem...

Behold a map of the Roman Empire in the year 70 AD; the year of the Sack of Jerusalem by Titus, and notice that Rome controlled the entire Mediterranean Basin and all travel within that basin-area at the time...

Now, behold a map of the Roman Road System (their equivalent of our Interstate System), many of whose roads may still be seen today in part, and some of whose sections are actually still in use, 1300+ years after the Fall of the Western Empire, with special notice of the Roman Road leading north towards modern-day Turkey and southwest towards Egypt and East towards Babylonia and Persia once you reached the vicinity of modern-day Turkey...

...roads on which Scores and Hundreds of Thousands of Roman Legionaries and Auxiliaries traveled extensively every year; from one end of the Empire to another; including all of the staging and logistics required to support such large-scale People-Mover Systems.

Heck, the Romans even had their own 'stagecoach' routes and services...

Now, behold a map of the Roman Trade Routes operated by the Empire at a point in time when the Mediterranean was a Roman Lake (50 BC - 250 AD); with special attention to the heavily-traveled Shipping Routes between nearby Alexandria and Rome and between nearby Tyre and Rome...

...and consider that the Roman Merchant Marine kept Rome and other large-scale Italian cities alive by transshipping unbelievably vast quantities of Egyptian Grain from a country very nearby to Israel, all the way to Rome, every year, on a regular, ongoing, daily basis.

Not to mention the vast amounts of wheat and other grain shipped to Rome by the Province of North Africa (Libya, Tunisia, etc.), which utilized a combination of Roman-owned and local-owned shipping assets to sustain this huge delivery mechanism and its intended beneficiaries.

Never mind the auxiliary merchant fleets operated by the subjected Egyptians and Tunisians and Roman Carthaginians and Phoenicians and Greeks and Cilicians and the like who all hired-out to the Romans on a regular or overflow or special-occasions basis, and who could be re-tasked and cheaply rented for transporting large numbers of highly profitable slave-stock, quickly.

With all of that massive megatransport between the African coast and Rome and other parts of Italy already in-place and fully operational during the reign of Augustus, never mind 60-70 years later, at the time of the Sack of Jerusalem.

And, of course, never mind the very real likelihood that, in addition to transporting thousands of conquered and displaced and captured Jews to Rome and its environs over these very excellent, well-supported Roman Roads and Trade Routes and Shipping... that a great many of those enslaved were shipped to much-closer regions (Egypt, Syria, Phoenicia, Cappadocia, Tunisia, Libya, Cyprus, Persia, Galatia, etc.) and sold at those destinations rather than being Road-marched or Transshipped all the way to Rome.

The Romans are admired for their Engineering and Terraforming and Hydraulics and Transport Systems and Logistics as much - more, perhaps - than for their Military Prowress; it's part of their 'rep' and their legacy. We 'moderns' arrogantly think ourselves so superior, but the Old Timers of bygone eras oftentimes were on a par with or even ahead of us in various disciplines or areas of effort, once one adjusts for differences in technology and knowledge-bases.

Sands makes some very good points and serves-up some very good conclusions.

The infrastructure / logistics argument, however, is not one of his Shining Moments...

 

[Hossfly]

Why don't you stop spamming the thread, boy.

Why don't you stay on topic, junior?

Why don't you ever show us that you are also cognizant of what is happening in other places in the Middle East since you are on a Middle East forum. Are you that obsessed with Israel because of the Jews, and therefore close your eyes to what is happening elsewhere, even when Catholics like you are being murdered because of their religion?

 

[Beachboy]

And of course there are thousands of Jerusalemites who were force out of their homes at gunpoint, by the Jordanian Army - simply because they were Jews. They remember how life was before they were besieged and shelled and given an hour to get out.......

Then there are the hundreds of thousands of people from all over the ME who were ordered out of their homes and off their land by various Arab League governments - stripped of their citizenship, all they owned stolen from them, before they were dumped at the border. And this was done ONLY because those people were Jews.

Yet the OP has never once acknowledged that any of this was done - that these people were targeted for this ethnic cleansing because they were Jews.

3 hijackers in a row, trying to change the subject of the OP.

Why don't you stop spamming the thread, boy.

If Muslims gave up spamming, they would have nothing to post. They don't even know what a fact/link is.

​

 

[Billo_Really]

First, the world has to deal with Holocaust Denial, and now Diaspora Denial?

I don't think so.

We can start with the writings of Josephus and toss-in goodies like the Arch of Titus and then start branching outwards from there.

In actuality, though, if you want to play with Diaspora Denial, in the face of 1900 years of acceptance of the accounts of Josephus, you're gonna have to go it alone on that one.

"...Furthermore, Sands logic is pretty solid. Back in that time, there was no physical means available to move a population that size, that distance, over the desert. The logistics to cover a feat like that, didn't exist."

My own No. 54 on this thread ( http://www.usmessageboard.com/middle-east-general/322339-80-year-old-palestinian-man-remembers-destroyed-village-of-his-youth-4.html#post8098371 ) describes a centuries-long battering of the Jews of the region in order to describe a Disapora which spanned such a timeframe.

But very large segments of the population were, indeed, subjugated and enslaved and transported at various times, and this was accomplished over the infrastructure and logistics capabilities of Antiquity.

Even merely within a Jewish-Hebrew-Israelite context we can look to the well-documented (by both sides) Babylonian Captivity in which much of the Hebrew population of the region was forcibly relocated to Babylonian territory (modern-day Iraq).

As to your support for Sands' logic pertaining to infrastructure and logistics, in denying any large-scale Disapora Event at the time of the Sack of Jerusalem (70 AD) and subsequent wars and rebellions between the two parties in the 70 years following the Sack of Jerusalem...

Behold a map of the Roman Empire in the year 70 AD; the year of the Sack of Jerusalem by Titus, and notice that Rome controlled the entire Mediterranean Basin and all travel within that basin-area at the time...

Now, behold a map of the Roman Road System (their equivalent of our Interstate System), many of whose roads may still be seen today in part, and some of whose sections are actually still in use, 1300+ years after the Fall of the Western Empire, with special notice of the Roman Road leading north towards modern-day Turkey and southwest towards Egypt and East towards Babylonia and Persia once you reached the vicinity of modern-day Turkey...

...roads on which Scores and Hundreds of Thousands of Roman Legionaries and Auxiliaries traveled extensively every year; from one end of the Empire to another; including all of the staging and logistics required to support such large-scale People-Mover Systems.

Heck, the Romans even had their own 'stagecoach' routes and services...

Now, behold a map of the Roman Trade Routes operated by the Empire at a point in time when the Mediterranean was a Roman Lake (50 BC - 250 AD); with special attention to the heavily-traveled Shipping Routes between nearby Alexandria and Rome and between nearby Tyre and Rome...

...and consider that the Roman Merchant Marine kept Rome and other large-scale Italian cities alive by transshipping unbelievably vast quantities of Egyptian Grain from a country very nearby to Israel, all the way to Rome, every year, on a regular, ongoing, daily basis.

Not to mention the vast amounts of wheat and other grain shipped to Rome by the Province of North Africa (Libya, Tunisia, etc.), which utilized a combination of Roman-owned and local-owned shipping assets to sustain this huge delivery mechanism and its intended beneficiaries.

Never mind the auxiliary merchant fleets operated by the subjected Egyptians and Tunisians and Roman Carthaginians and Phoenicians and Greeks and Cilicians and the like who all hired-out to the Romans on a regular or overflow or special-occasions basis, and who could be re-tasked and cheaply rented for transporting large numbers of highly profitable slave-stock, quickly.

With all of that massive megatransport between the African coast and Rome and other parts of Italy already in-place and fully operational during the reign of Augustus, never mind 60-70 years later, at the time of the Sack of Jerusalem.

And, of course, never mind the very real likelihood that, in addition to transporting thousands of conquered and displaced and captured Jews to Rome and its environs over these very excellent, well-supported Roman Roads and Trade Routes and Shipping... that a great many of those enslaved were shipped to much-closer regions (Egypt, Syria, Phoenicia, Cappadocia, Tunisia, Libya, Cyprus, Persia, Galatia, etc.) and sold at those destinations rather than being Road-marched or Transshipped all the way to Rome.

The Romans are admired for their Engineering and Terraforming and Hydraulics and Transport Systems and Logistics as much - more, perhaps - than for their Military Prowress; it's part of their 'rep' and their legacy. We 'moderns' arrogantly think ourselves so superior, but the Old Timers of bygone eras oftentimes were on a par with or even ahead of us in various disciplines or areas of effort, once one adjusts for differences in technology and knowledge-bases.

Sands makes some very good points and serves-up some very good conclusions.

The infrastructure / logistics argument, however, is not one of his Shining Moments...

All you have is references in the Bible. That's it!

Although the Book of Genesis and Book of Exodus describe a period of Hebrew servitude in ancient Egypt, more than a century of archaeological research has discovered nothing which could support its narrative elements— the four centuries sojourn in Egypt, the escape of well over a million Israelites from the Delta, or the three months journey through the wilderness to Sinai.

The Egyptian records themselves have no mention of anything recorded in Exodus, the wilderness of the southern Sinai peninsula shows no traces of a mass-migration such as Exodus describes, and virtually all the place-names mentioned, including Goshen (the area within Egypt where the Israelites supposedly lived), the store-cities of Pithom and Rameses, the site of the crossing of the Red Sea (or, more commonly among modern Biblical scholars, the Sea of Reeds), and even Mt Sinai itself, have resisted identification. Scholars who hold the Exodus to represent historical truth concede that the most the evidence can suggest is plausibility.

No scientific evidence whatsoever.

In fact, the Palestinian's are the actual decendants of the Israelites.