"A free thinker is Satan's slave"

[logical4u]

Not humanly possible. You have to have 2 communities with equal resources to be able to compare, that's impossible.


But if you have to believe a christian community is superior to every other type of community, have at it .

No, there's evidence and it's conclusive. Christian society is more likely to support education, liberty, and justice.

More so than a Buddhist society? More than a Hindu society? More than a Jewish society?

What makes Christians so much better than Buddhists, Hindus or Jews?

Jews are persecuted by many other faiths, but have still managed to do great things, compare their accomplishments to the muslims that want to destroy them. Christianity is very close to Hebrew beliefs.

As for the other two: are you suggesting we adopt a caste system (the Hindus use it)? Are you suggesting we turn a blind eye to slavery and pedophilia (Buddhists do)?
Keep in mind that I AM NOT claiming Christians are perfect. I am stating the obvious: people that try to follow Christian (Judeo) morals tend to have better communities, states and countries than those that do not.

Another question: if Hindus and Buddhists have countries that are so good, why are a whole bunch of them trying to become Americans?

 

[logical4u]

As I pointed out above, during the Middle Ages Muslim societies were more likely to promote education, liberty and justice than Christian ones. In modern times, Christian societies have pulled ahead of Muslim ones in these areas, as they have become LESS Christian, while Muslim societies, which have remained more devout, have fallen behind.

There's a lesson there for those willing to heed it.

You are right, "Christian communities" did pull ahead. In modern times, I beg to differ. Those that are using a "common purse" (read Proverbs), what you would call socialism/communism/liberalism/progressivism/statism are on the brink of collapse. They have rejected the Lord's ways and have turned to man for security (listened to a black preacher talking about how the hebrews, Joseph's family turned to the Egyptians for security, instead of the Lord. After a few trips, they were Egypt's slaves... if you are interested in a comparable lesson). Funny though, those that reject the Lord, keep making the same mistakes, again, and again, and again.

 

[Youwerecreated]

More so than a Buddhist society? More than a Hindu society? More than a Jewish society?

What makes Christians so much better than Buddhists, Hindus or Jews?

Because who they worship.

And, who would that be exactly, You Were Excreted?

Yahweh,Jesus,Hashem,Jehovah.

You were hatched.

 

[Montrovant]

No, there's evidence and it's conclusive. Christian society is more likely to support education, liberty, and justice.

Again, there is no even comparison. Not humanly possible to make one. You're comparing communities with different aspects to them to other communities.

Money and resources are the most important factors imo. You make anyone desperate enough and they'll kill and steal to feed their family.

This is my point: the "atheists", the "homosexuals" (or any other group that regularly slams Christians) will not start a community of their own. Why do you think that is? There are places where towns are for sale. There are large tracts of land where a group could start their own community (gated or otherwise). Why don't they? Why do they choose to live in family oriented communities (usually largely Christian)? Why do they then feel insulted when a neighbor invites them to "fellowship"? They chose to live in a place where the beliefs of the majority of the people are Christian?

How many of those same people would choose to live in a "muslim community" and then mock and ridicule the muslim faith?

Your point is why don't atheists or homosexuals or whatever other groups you don't like here start communities of their own? Why should they? Just because someone shares a lack of belief, or sexual orientation, doesn't mean you want to live around them. This is obviously true of Christians as well. Why don't they buy a town or start a community? Perhaps most are either happy enough where they are, or not part of any large groups that could do such a thing, etc. You make it out as though atheists generally segregate themselves from the rest of the population, or homosexuals do, or the other groups you consider Christian bashers. I think that's a misrepresentation of reality. While certainly atheist and homosexual groups do exist, I question whether the majority of people who fit those categories are part of said groups, and I question whether they consider isolating themselves from people outside those groups a good thing.

As far as people from these groups you dislike living in largely Christian areas, aren't MOST parts of the country largely Christian? If somewhere from 70-80% of Americans self-identify as Christian (I've seen multiple polls that put the number somewhere in that area), wouldn't it, in fact, be hard to find places that are not made up of mostly Christians? So, the idea that these Christian bashers are specifically going to Christian neighborhoods seems ridiculous.

There are probably few people who would argue that there are admirable traits to Christianity. It may even be that Christians are better able to get along in a society than any others. It is a very difficult hypothesis to prove, if it isn't impossible to do so. There are simply too many variables involved in what makes a good nation, even a good community.

 

[Dr.Drock]

I'm making the comparison, so it's humanly possible, as I'm a human.

And it's true. Christian communities are the breeding ground of liberty, scholarship, and justice.

Atheist communities aren't.

Because they oppress those things.

Well I'm sad, but not surprised to see your bigotry is still alive and well. But yes you can make as many false comparisons as you like.

Any community can be oppressive, and every version of religion and non-religion has had oppressive communities throughout history.

Anti-intellectual oppressive types always attach negative names to facts they don't like.

You don't like the fact that Christian communities historically foster scholarship, liberty, and freedom, so you label that observation as "bigotry".

It's just another example of progressives using propaganda to shut down intellectual discussion.

All bigots can justify their bigotry, normally usually broad generic reasoning, your posts are a good example.

 

[Dr.Drock]

How exactly is it bigotry to propose an experiment? And how is he or anyone else saying that a certain person is superior to anyone else?

The scriptures invite us to experiment on the Word. That is the only way we can know for ourselves whether the Word is good and leads to life or not.

You learn whether prayer is a correct principle by praying. You learn whether being kind is a correct principle by being kind. You learn whether tithing is a correct principle by paying tithes and offerings. You learn whether the scriptures are true through studying and applying their principles.

I can guarantee that anyone who has the faith to experiment on the Word will find out by the power of the Spirit, whether Life is in the Word or not.

Quite obviously, he's implying christians live more wholesome lives than everyone else solely because of their religion. He's implying you're more likely to be a criminal if you aren't a christian, you're less likely to be prosperous and the community is less likely to have nice stuff in it.

There was already a thread made about less religious countries and how happy the people in the countries are, what could be more important than people being happy?

Logical4u is a loud, proud and outspoken bigot and has shown it in multiple posts on this thread. If I said a christian community was going to have a higher crime rate because it was christian (which i'd never stoop to), you'd call me a bigot and appropriately so.

Another coward on the experiment? What's the matter, don't think your "groups" can pull it off?

Lol you're doing a good job. Challenge me to do an impossible experiment, then call me a coward for not pulling off the impossible experiment. You're covered on all grounds!

 

[Uncensored2008]

I wonder where an agnostic falls on the chart.....

The agnostic falls on the chart only when drinking too much. AND it's better than falling on the stairs...

 

[koshergrl]

Well I'm sad, but not surprised to see your bigotry is still alive and well. But yes you can make as many false comparisons as you like.

Any community can be oppressive, and every version of religion and non-religion has had oppressive communities throughout history.

Anti-intellectual oppressive types always attach negative names to facts they don't like.

You don't like the fact that Christian communities historically foster scholarship, liberty, and freedom, so you label that observation as "bigotry".

It's just another example of progressives using propaganda to shut down intellectual discussion.

All bigots can justify their bigotry, normally usually broad generic reasoning, your posts are a good example.

Another trademark of nazi propaganda....accuse those who oppose you of the tactics you employ.

That's why the Nazis called the Jews killers and criminals, and insisted that they had to die in order to promote life elsewhere.

Of course, they started by shutting down their freedoms...

 

[Dr.Drock]

Anti-intellectual oppressive types always attach negative names to facts they don't like.

You don't like the fact that Christian communities historically foster scholarship, liberty, and freedom, so you label that observation as "bigotry".

It's just another example of progressives using propaganda to shut down intellectual discussion.

All bigots can justify their bigotry, normally usually broad generic reasoning, your posts are a good example.

Another trademark of nazi propaganda....accuse those who oppose you of the tactics you employ.

That's why the Nazis called the Jews killers and criminals, and insisted that they had to die in order to promote life elsewhere.

Of course, they started by shutting down their freedoms...

Lol my favorite tactic of yours, when you compare anyone who disagrees with you to nazis or Hitler. In this case you're comparing Nazis to atheists and still pretending you aren't a bigot.

Like I've said to you dozens of other times, please never change your posting style. You truly are my favorite poster on this board.

No one else brings the entertainment like you do.

 

[koshergrl]

No, I don't compare everyone who disagrees with me to nazis.

I compare progressive, eugenics-driven nutbags who seek a shut down of our protected liberties to Nazis. When you target a religious group and seek to prevent them from participating in politics or other professions and propose they not be allowed to openly adhere to their religion, then I compare you to a Nazi because hey, that's what Nazis did.

 

[Dr.Drock]

No, I don't compare everyone who disagrees with me to nazis.

I compare progressive, eugenics-driven nutbags who seek a shut down of our protected liberties to Nazis. When you target a religious group and seek to prevent them from participating in politics or other professions and propose they not be allowed to openly adhere to their religion, then I compare you to a Nazi because hey, that's what Nazis did.

Just the type of wild exaggerating I would expect from any good victim, trying to portray her reasons for being a bigot are because she's a victim by those who she holds a bigotry against.

You've perfectly rationalized your bigotry, I commend you for it. You really think you have rational reasons to be a bigot. You also still think you aren't judgemental, what a mind yours would be to study .

 

[ThinkCritically]

I think it would be good to go back and look at the original post.

That's a billboard making the rounds, allegedly put up by various churches. I can't verify that it isn't a hoax and it may be. But whether or not any churches have actually displayed that billboard, that IS the thinking of many conservative Christians. I've seen it expressed by certain posters here.

Dragon is making a point that any reasonable christian would agree with, many christians do not think freely. But lack of freethinking is not a monopoly held by christians. Correlation does not prove causation. If you are an ignorant christian who can't think for yourself is it christianity's fault? NO. It is the fault of the person for not being a freethinker.

In fact, I think we can take it a bit further: traditional Christianity and freedom in general are enemies. Freedom is a value that's antithetical to traditional Christianity. Not to the teachings of Jesus, mind -- but to traditional Christian teaching.

You make an excellent point here, by pointing out the differences between Jesus and the fallible nature of the church and christians. Many christians do not fully understand how radical Jesus was. He was persecuted by the church for crying out loud, for not following their dogma.

To a traditional Christian, there is a very, very narrow range of thought, feeling, and action that are permissible. To think freely is to be a heretic or an unbeliever. To feel freely is to lust, to desire, almost certainly to be an adulterer or fornicator in one's imagination, and in some cases to be a homosexual; it's to be angry at times, to long for what traditional morality says should not be yours, to envy and resent.

God (or for the atheists, Nature) most certainly created us to be free and to think freely. But freethinking is a neutral term. I could think freely about helping out at the local food bank, or I could think freely about killing somebody. Therefore, I do not see why a christian would believe that the neutral act of thinking freely would qualify someone as a heretic.

Freedom means nothing if it is not freedom to sin. Traditional Christianity is opposed to sin. Therefore, traditional Christianity is opposed to freedom.

It is raining outside means it is cloudy. It is cloudy outside. Therefore, it must be raining.

One final note...Freedom means nothing if it is not freedom to sin or not sin.

 

[koshergrl]

No, I don't compare everyone who disagrees with me to nazis.

I compare progressive, eugenics-driven nutbags who seek a shut down of our protected liberties to Nazis. When you target a religious group and seek to prevent them from participating in politics or other professions and propose they not be allowed to openly adhere to their religion, then I compare you to a Nazi because hey, that's what Nazis did.

Just the type of wild exaggerating I would expect from any good victim, trying to portray her reasons for being a bigot are because she's a victim by those who she holds a bigotry against.

You've perfectly rationalized your bigotry, I commend you for it. You really think you have rational reasons to be a bigot. You also still think you aren't judgemental, what a mind yours would be to study .

No exaggeration.
Nazis used the same playbook as all progressive eugenecist anti-Christian freaks.

The only diff is that you focus your hatred on Christians, rather than Jews. Though Nazis also had a problem with Catholics....

Though truth be told, you probably hate Jews as well.

 

[koshergrl]

I think it would be good to go back and look at the original post.

That's a billboard making the rounds, allegedly put up by various churches. I can't verify that it isn't a hoax and it may be. But whether or not any churches have actually displayed that billboard, that IS the thinking of many conservative Christians. I've seen it expressed by certain posters here.

Dragon is making a point that any reasonable christian would agree with, many christians do not think freely. But lack of freethinking is not a monopoly held by christians. Correlation does not prove causation. If you are an ignorant christian who can't think for yourself is it christianity's fault? NO. It is the fault of the person for not being a freethinker.

In fact, I think we can take it a bit further: traditional Christianity and freedom in general are enemies. Freedom is a value that's antithetical to traditional Christianity. Not to the teachings of Jesus, mind -- but to traditional Christian teaching.

You make an excellent point here, by pointing out the differences between Jesus and the fallible nature of the church and christians. Many christians do not fully understand how radical Jesus was. He was persecuted by the church for crying out loud, for not following their dogma.

To a traditional Christian, there is a very, very narrow range of thought, feeling, and action that are permissible. To think freely is to be a heretic or an unbeliever. To feel freely is to lust, to desire, almost certainly to be an adulterer or fornicator in one's imagination, and in some cases to be a homosexual; it's to be angry at times, to long for what traditional morality says should not be yours, to envy and resent.

God (or for the atheists, Nature) most certainly created us to be free and to think freely. But freethinking is a neutral term. I could think freely about helping out at the local food bank, or I could think freely about killing somebody. Therefore, I do not see why a christian would believe that the neutral act of thinking freely would qualify someone as a heretic.

Freedom means nothing if it is not freedom to sin. Traditional Christianity is opposed to sin. Therefore, traditional Christianity is opposed to freedom.

It is raining outside means it is cloudy. It is cloudy outside. Therefore, it must be raining.

One final note...Freedom means nothing if it is not freedom to sin or not sin.

Jesus wasn't radical at all. He fulfilled the law. The pharisees didn't believe he was the Messiah. It wasn't about him being radical, it was about them not recognizing him. He was a rabbi...a teacher, and he was recognized as such by the church. They had him killed because they resented the fact that he took THEM to task, and because his existence and fulfillment of the law challenged their authority. It wasn't because he acted radically. Radicalism implies departure from the law...which he never did.

 

[ThinkCritically]

I think it would be good to go back and look at the original post.

That's a billboard making the rounds, allegedly put up by various churches. I can't verify that it isn't a hoax and it may be. But whether or not any churches have actually displayed that billboard, that IS the thinking of many conservative Christians. I've seen it expressed by certain posters here.

Dragon is making a point that any reasonable christian would agree with, many christians do not think freely. But lack of freethinking is not a monopoly held by christians. Correlation does not prove causation. If you are an ignorant christian who can't think for yourself is it christianity's fault? NO. It is the fault of the person for not being a freethinker.



You make an excellent point here, by pointing out the differences between Jesus and the fallible nature of the church and christians. Many christians do not fully understand how radical Jesus was. He was persecuted by the church for crying out loud, for not following their dogma.


God (or for the atheists, Nature) most certainly created us to be free and to think freely. But freethinking is a neutral term. I could think freely about helping out at the local food bank, or I could think freely about killing somebody. Therefore, I do not see why a christian would believe that the neutral act of thinking freely would qualify someone as a heretic.

Freedom means nothing if it is not freedom to sin. Traditional Christianity is opposed to sin. Therefore, traditional Christianity is opposed to freedom.

It is raining outside means it is cloudy. It is cloudy outside. Therefore, it must be raining.

One final note...Freedom means nothing if it is not freedom to sin or not sin.

Jesus wasn't radical at all. He fulfilled the law. The pharisees didn't believe he was the Messiah. It wasn't about him being radical, it was about them not recognizing him. He was a rabbi...a teacher, and he was recognized as such by the church. They had him killed because they resented the fact that he took THEM to task, and because his existence and fulfillment of the law challenged their authority. It wasn't because he acted radically. Radicalism implies departure from the law...which he never did.

au contraire...He broke the sabbath.

 

[Dr.Drock]

No, I don't compare everyone who disagrees with me to nazis.

I compare progressive, eugenics-driven nutbags who seek a shut down of our protected liberties to Nazis. When you target a religious group and seek to prevent them from participating in politics or other professions and propose they not be allowed to openly adhere to their religion, then I compare you to a Nazi because hey, that's what Nazis did.

Just the type of wild exaggerating I would expect from any good victim, trying to portray her reasons for being a bigot are because she's a victim by those who she holds a bigotry against.

You've perfectly rationalized your bigotry, I commend you for it. You really think you have rational reasons to be a bigot. You also still think you aren't judgemental, what a mind yours would be to study .

No exaggeration.
Nazis used the same playbook as all progressive eugenecist anti-Christian freaks.

The only diff is that you focus your hatred on Christians, rather than Jews. Though Nazis also had a problem with Catholics....

Though truth be told, you probably hate Jews as well.

The moment you find anything i've said that shows hate towards christians is the moment a unicorn horn will grow out of forehead.

Comparing atheists to Nazis is being anti-atheist, which you proudly are, now take your best shot at finding me saying something even in the same ballpark as your bigotted remarks.

Should be entertaining!

 

[ThinkCritically]

My whole argument might be summed up as this....There are old testament christians (the ones that dragon calls traditional or fundamentalist, whatever you want to call it, I think we all know what it is), and there are new testament christians, who follow the new way that was established by Jesus (grace). The Old testament is there as a historical reference to give context to the coming of Jesus, but Jesus broke the sabbath, so that we could get over our dogmatic ways.

 

[ABikerSailor]

My whole argument might be summed up as this....There are old testament christians (the ones that dragon calls traditional or fundamentalist, whatever you want to call it, I think we all know what it is), and there are new testament christians, who follow the new way that was established by Jesus (grace). The Old testament is there as a historical reference to give context to the coming of Jesus, but Jesus broke the sabbath, so that we could get over our dogmatic ways.

Ummmm...........hate to tell you, but the first 5 books of the Bible are what the Jews referred to as the Torah, and the rest of the OT is simply a history of the Jewish people.

Your "OT Christians" would actually be Jews.

 

[koshergrl]

Just the type of wild exaggerating I would expect from any good victim, trying to portray her reasons for being a bigot are because she's a victim by those who she holds a bigotry against.

You've perfectly rationalized your bigotry, I commend you for it. You really think you have rational reasons to be a bigot. You also still think you aren't judgemental, what a mind yours would be to study .

No exaggeration.
Nazis used the same playbook as all progressive eugenecist anti-Christian freaks.

The only diff is that you focus your hatred on Christians, rather than Jews. Though Nazis also had a problem with Catholics....

Though truth be told, you probably hate Jews as well.

The moment you find anything i've said that shows hate towards christians is the moment a unicorn horn will grow out of forehead.

Comparing atheists to Nazis is being anti-atheist, which you proudly are, now take your best shot at finding me saying something even in the same ballpark as your bigotted remarks.

Should be entertaining!

No, wrong again, as you always are.

I compare you to Nazis because you follow the same playbook. It's not because you're atheist. It's because you want to shut down freedom of religion, specifically Christianity, and because you promote eugenic practices..and because you use the same methods as the Nazis did.

 

[Dr.Drock]

No exaggeration.
Nazis used the same playbook as all progressive eugenecist anti-Christian freaks.

The only diff is that you focus your hatred on Christians, rather than Jews. Though Nazis also had a problem with Catholics....

Though truth be told, you probably hate Jews as well.

The moment you find anything i've said that shows hate towards christians is the moment a unicorn horn will grow out of forehead.

Comparing atheists to Nazis is being anti-atheist, which you proudly are, now take your best shot at finding me saying something even in the same ballpark as your bigotted remarks.

Should be entertaining!

No, wrong again, as you always are.

I compare you to Nazis because you follow the same playbook. It's not because you're atheist. It's because you want to shut down freedom of religion, specifically Christianity, and because you promote eugenic practices..and because you use the same methods as the Nazis did.

Btw it's also adorable that you call me an anti-semite while you sit there and downplay the terrible things Nazis did on a daily basis. I know you desperately want to get under my skin with all your middle school insults, but rest assured it very much entertains me that a seemingly grown adult would stoop to such tactics on a daily basis, so plz keep it up .

I'll repeat again for you. I don't care if every building on private land is a church, if at every corner one of you pseudo-fundies is screaming Bible verses at the top of his or her lungs, by all means, have at it. The only politician I vote for is probably an even bigger fundamentalist than you pretend to be.