"A free thinker is Satan's slave"

[logical4u]

Your point is why don't atheists or homosexuals or whatever other groups you don't like here start communities of their own? Why should they? Just because someone shares a lack of belief, or sexual orientation, doesn't mean you want to live around them. This is obviously true of Christians as well. Why don't they buy a town or start a community? Perhaps most are either happy enough where they are, or not part of any large groups that could do such a thing, etc. You make it out as though atheists generally segregate themselves from the rest of the population, or homosexuals do, or the other groups you consider Christian bashers. I think that's a misrepresentation of reality. While certainly atheist and homosexual groups do exist, I question whether the majority of people who fit those categories are part of said groups, and I question whether they consider isolating themselves from people outside those groups a good thing.

As far as people from these groups you dislike living in largely Christian areas, aren't MOST parts of the country largely Christian? If somewhere from 70-80% of Americans self-identify as Christian (I've seen multiple polls that put the number somewhere in that area), wouldn't it, in fact, be hard to find places that are not made up of mostly Christians? So, the idea that these Christian bashers are specifically going to Christian neighborhoods seems ridiculous.

There are probably few people who would argue that there are admirable traits to Christianity. It may even be that Christians are better able to get along in a society than any others. It is a very difficult hypothesis to prove, if it isn't impossible to do so. There are simply too many variables involved in what makes a good nation, even a good community.

I was responding to a person claiming that Christians were too pushy for them. They seem to think the Christians should just be quiet and accept that other people should make their decisions for them. I was pointing out that if these other ways were soooo great, why didn't they start a community on their own.

It figures that instead of trying to understand the point (that these people find Christians necessary to their way of life), you want to tell me how I feel about them. Please, stay focused: if the Christian way of life is sooo offensive to people that do not agree with those beliefs, settle in a place where Christians are not the largest part of the population.

Your last paragraph demonstrated that somewhere down inside that you (like most people that bash and mock Christians?) understand that there are a huge amount of benefits to be gained from living in a Christian community. I was hoping that those that want Christians to be silent would see that on their own. Maybe, it will help that you pointed it out to us.

I gave you reasons why groups of non-Christians might not start more communities. Do you think buying a town or starting a community of all like-minded people is a simple thing to do?

I didn't tell you how you feel about anyone. As far as Christians being necessary to anyone's way of life, that is true inasmuch as the US is a large majority Christian, and I don't think you have been talking to any of our foreign-located posters here. If you think those who are offended should settle in a place Christians aren't the majority, fine, but understand that those places are going to be few and far between in a country with as many Christians as we have in the US.

I didn't say or imply anything about benefits of Christian communities. What I said was that there are admirable traits in Christianity. I could say the same of just about any religion, probably. That doesn't mean a community made up of people that follow a particular religion is necessarily better than any other. This is especially true considering the many varied denominations of Christianity; you could have multiple Christian communities that are run differently based on the form of the religion the people there follow.

The important point to understand is that the success or safety or enjoyability of a community is based on many things. To assume that a Christian community is going to be better than a non-Christian community, without taking the many other factors into account, is foolish.

Yep, got get them qualifiers in place. Can't look around and see that this country, founded on Christian beliefs (mixed with some republic modeled gov't), has prospered beyond any civilization to date. It was not until the mid 1900s that people started deserting the Lord in droves. The Christians were the ones that worked hard, formed communities, built churches, schools, hospitals, and staffed them.
The johnny come latelies show up and try to tell us that "Christianity" was only a small factor (you guys are so willfully blind). What do you think bound the country together? Why would people that had so many different goals work together state that the gov't would not form a state religion and that people had a right to worship as they saw fit? And now, if Christians are open about their opinions, the lefties try to silence them, maybe the lefties don't want to be reminded how far they are walking away from the Lord?

 

[Montrovant]

I was responding to a person claiming that Christians were too pushy for them. They seem to think the Christians should just be quiet and accept that other people should make their decisions for them. I was pointing out that if these other ways were soooo great, why didn't they start a community on their own.

It figures that instead of trying to understand the point (that these people find Christians necessary to their way of life), you want to tell me how I feel about them. Please, stay focused: if the Christian way of life is sooo offensive to people that do not agree with those beliefs, settle in a place where Christians are not the largest part of the population.

Your last paragraph demonstrated that somewhere down inside that you (like most people that bash and mock Christians?) understand that there are a huge amount of benefits to be gained from living in a Christian community. I was hoping that those that want Christians to be silent would see that on their own. Maybe, it will help that you pointed it out to us.

I gave you reasons why groups of non-Christians might not start more communities. Do you think buying a town or starting a community of all like-minded people is a simple thing to do?

I didn't tell you how you feel about anyone. As far as Christians being necessary to anyone's way of life, that is true inasmuch as the US is a large majority Christian, and I don't think you have been talking to any of our foreign-located posters here. If you think those who are offended should settle in a place Christians aren't the majority, fine, but understand that those places are going to be few and far between in a country with as many Christians as we have in the US.

I didn't say or imply anything about benefits of Christian communities. What I said was that there are admirable traits in Christianity. I could say the same of just about any religion, probably. That doesn't mean a community made up of people that follow a particular religion is necessarily better than any other. This is especially true considering the many varied denominations of Christianity; you could have multiple Christian communities that are run differently based on the form of the religion the people there follow.

The important point to understand is that the success or safety or enjoyability of a community is based on many things. To assume that a Christian community is going to be better than a non-Christian community, without taking the many other factors into account, is foolish.

Yep, got get them qualifiers in place. Can't look around and see that this country, founded on Christian beliefs (mixed with some republic modeled gov't), has prospered beyond any civilization to date. It was not until the mid 1900s that people started deserting the Lord in droves. The Christians were the ones that worked hard, formed communities, built churches, schools, hospitals, and staffed them.
The johnny come latelies show up and try to tell us that "Christianity" was only a small factor (you guys are so willfully blind). What do you think bound the country together? Why would people that had so many different goals work together state that the gov't would not form a state religion and that people had a right to worship as they saw fit? And now, if Christians are open about their opinions, the lefties try to silence them, maybe the lefties don't want to be reminded how far they are walking away from the Lord?

WTF are you talking about? When did this become about the founding of the country?

Whether this country has prospered beyond any civilization to date is open to argument. There have been nations that lasted longer, covered more area, etc. in the past. While this is my personal favorite, it could easily be argued that many of the great empires were more prosperous.

Also, it seems you are saying that non-Christians in this country's past did not work hard, form communities, build churches, schools, hospitals, and staff them. That's right, the history of this country is one of Christians working hard and everyone else doing nothing!

The more I talk with you, the more you seem to be saying that Christians are good and everyone else is bad. If that is the way you look at the world, there's really no point talking to you.

 

[koshergrl]

I was responding to a person claiming that Christians were too pushy for them. They seem to think the Christians should just be quiet and accept that other people should make their decisions for them. I was pointing out that if these other ways were soooo great, why didn't they start a community on their own.

It figures that instead of trying to understand the point (that these people find Christians necessary to their way of life), you want to tell me how I feel about them. Please, stay focused: if the Christian way of life is sooo offensive to people that do not agree with those beliefs, settle in a place where Christians are not the largest part of the population.

Your last paragraph demonstrated that somewhere down inside that you (like most people that bash and mock Christians?) understand that there are a huge amount of benefits to be gained from living in a Christian community. I was hoping that those that want Christians to be silent would see that on their own. Maybe, it will help that you pointed it out to us.

I gave you reasons why groups of non-Christians might not start more communities. Do you think buying a town or starting a community of all like-minded people is a simple thing to do?

I didn't tell you how you feel about anyone. As far as Christians being necessary to anyone's way of life, that is true inasmuch as the US is a large majority Christian, and I don't think you have been talking to any of our foreign-located posters here. If you think those who are offended should settle in a place Christians aren't the majority, fine, but understand that those places are going to be few and far between in a country with as many Christians as we have in the US.

I didn't say or imply anything about benefits of Christian communities. What I said was that there are admirable traits in Christianity. I could say the same of just about any religion, probably. That doesn't mean a community made up of people that follow a particular religion is necessarily better than any other. This is especially true considering the many varied denominations of Christianity; you could have multiple Christian communities that are run differently based on the form of the religion the people there follow.

The important point to understand is that the success or safety or enjoyability of a community is based on many things. To assume that a Christian community is going to be better than a non-Christian community, without taking the many other factors into account, is foolish.

Yep, got get them qualifiers in place. Can't look around and see that this country, founded on Christian beliefs (mixed with some republic modeled gov't), has prospered beyond any civilization to date. It was not until the mid 1900s that people started deserting the Lord in droves. The Christians were the ones that worked hard, formed communities, built churches, schools, hospitals, and staffed them.
The johnny come latelies show up and try to tell us that "Christianity" was only a small factor (you guys are so willfully blind). What do you think bound the country together? Why would people that had so many different goals work together state that the gov't would not form a state religion and that people had a right to worship as they saw fit? And now, if Christians are open about their opinions, the lefties try to silence them, maybe the lefties don't want to be reminded how far they are walking away from the Lord?

 

[koshergrl]

I gave you reasons why groups of non-Christians might not start more communities. Do you think buying a town or starting a community of all like-minded people is a simple thing to do?

I didn't tell you how you feel about anyone. As far as Christians being necessary to anyone's way of life, that is true inasmuch as the US is a large majority Christian, and I don't think you have been talking to any of our foreign-located posters here. If you think those who are offended should settle in a place Christians aren't the majority, fine, but understand that those places are going to be few and far between in a country with as many Christians as we have in the US.

I didn't say or imply anything about benefits of Christian communities. What I said was that there are admirable traits in Christianity. I could say the same of just about any religion, probably. That doesn't mean a community made up of people that follow a particular religion is necessarily better than any other. This is especially true considering the many varied denominations of Christianity; you could have multiple Christian communities that are run differently based on the form of the religion the people there follow.

The important point to understand is that the success or safety or enjoyability of a community is based on many things. To assume that a Christian community is going to be better than a non-Christian community, without taking the many other factors into account, is foolish.

Yep, got get them qualifiers in place. Can't look around and see that this country, founded on Christian beliefs (mixed with some republic modeled gov't), has prospered beyond any civilization to date. It was not until the mid 1900s that people started deserting the Lord in droves. The Christians were the ones that worked hard, formed communities, built churches, schools, hospitals, and staffed them.
The johnny come latelies show up and try to tell us that "Christianity" was only a small factor (you guys are so willfully blind). What do you think bound the country together? Why would people that had so many different goals work together state that the gov't would not form a state religion and that people had a right to worship as they saw fit? And now, if Christians are open about their opinions, the lefties try to silence them, maybe the lefties don't want to be reminded how far they are walking away from the Lord?

WTF are you talking about? When did this become about the founding of the country?

Whether this country has prospered beyond any civilization to date is open to argument. There have been nations that lasted longer, covered more area, etc. in the past. While this is my personal favorite, it could easily be argued that many of the great empires were more prosperous.

Also, it seems you are saying that non-Christians in this country's past did not work hard, form communities, build churches, schools, hospitals, and staff them. That's right, the history of this country is one of Christians working hard and everyone else doing nothing!

The more I talk with you, the more you seem to be saying that Christians are good and everyone else is bad. If that is the way you look at the world, there's really no point talking to you.

Then you aren't listening past your own bigoted filters. The conversation he's referencing is specifically about Christian vs. non Christian society.

 

[Montrovant]

Yep, got get them qualifiers in place. Can't look around and see that this country, founded on Christian beliefs (mixed with some republic modeled gov't), has prospered beyond any civilization to date. It was not until the mid 1900s that people started deserting the Lord in droves. The Christians were the ones that worked hard, formed communities, built churches, schools, hospitals, and staffed them.
The johnny come latelies show up and try to tell us that "Christianity" was only a small factor (you guys are so willfully blind). What do you think bound the country together? Why would people that had so many different goals work together state that the gov't would not form a state religion and that people had a right to worship as they saw fit? And now, if Christians are open about their opinions, the lefties try to silence them, maybe the lefties don't want to be reminded how far they are walking away from the Lord?

WTF are you talking about? When did this become about the founding of the country?

Whether this country has prospered beyond any civilization to date is open to argument. There have been nations that lasted longer, covered more area, etc. in the past. While this is my personal favorite, it could easily be argued that many of the great empires were more prosperous.

Also, it seems you are saying that non-Christians in this country's past did not work hard, form communities, build churches, schools, hospitals, and staff them. That's right, the history of this country is one of Christians working hard and everyone else doing nothing!

The more I talk with you, the more you seem to be saying that Christians are good and everyone else is bad. If that is the way you look at the world, there's really no point talking to you.

Then you aren't listening past your own bigoted filters. The conversation he's referencing is specifically about Christian vs. non Christian society.

Which has what, exactly, to do with my post? I've already been discussing with logical4u why non-Christians might not often form their own communities, the difficulties in attributing the success of a community or nation to the religious belief of it's members, etc. Which part of my post do you consider to be wrong because of my bigotry, or to not take into account logical4u having a conversation about Christian vs non-Christian society?

 

[nitroz]

You tell people "God loves you...we are all imperfect, but we can all be saved in spite of our imperfections and attain heaven.." but they hear "We are better than you".

That's the devil at work, pure and simple.

Hey, Lets play a game.

The game is to let the bible be the referee on who is right on topics that we disagree with. sound fun?

If you win, you will get positive rep.

 

[koshergrl]

I have little faith in those sorts of games. In my experience, people lie about the words in front of their faces, and stick to the lie.

 

[koshergrl]

For example, montrovant pretending that logical's statement has nothing to do with the discussion.

I can't do much with the subject if people can't see the truth when it's naked in front of them.

 

[ThinkCritically]

You tell people "God loves you...we are all imperfect, but we can all be saved in spite of our imperfections and attain heaven.." but they hear "We are better than you".

That's the devil at work, pure and simple.

Hey, Lets play a game.

The game is to let the bible be the referee on who is right on topics that we disagree with. sound fun?

If you win, you will get positive rep.

I should be way ahead on this one then

 

[Widdekind]

(i want a Christian perspective, on the following questions)

First, i understand, that in 1095 AD, acting in the Name of "God in heaven", Pope Urban II called for a "Crusade" against the Middle East, calling the Turks an "execrable" & "accursed" race; and that, ultimately, the "Crusades" have motivated Middle Easterners, e.g. Turks, ever since, to wage Jihad against Europe, e.g. to conquer Constantinople.

Second, i understand, that c.30 AD, Jesus, the "Messiah" of "God in heaven", Ordered Christians to Evangelize all humans on earth (Matthew 24:14); and that European Christian "Missionaries" obeyed that Order, Evangelizing the Americas, Asia, & Africa, during the 16th-19th centuries AD; and that, ultimately, those "Missions" have motivated non-whites, world-wide, to Hate whites, for "shoving the Gospel down their throats".

Has obeying "God in heaven", influenced "race relations", betweens whites & non-whites, on earth ?

 

[koshergrl]

Sigh.

See, there's no argument with people who cling to false premises.

 

[Artevelde]

(i want a Christian perspective, on the following questions)

First, i understand, that in 1095 AD, acting in the Name of "God in heaven", Pope Urban II called for a "Crusade" against the Middle East, calling the Turks an "execrable" & "accursed" race; and that, ultimately, the "Crusades" have motivated Middle Easterners, e.g. Turks, ever since, to wage Jihad against Europe, e.g. to conquer Constantinople.

Second, i understand, that c.30 AD, Jesus, the "Messiah" of "God in heaven", Ordered Christians to Evangelize all humans on earth (Matthew 24:14); and that European Christian "Missionaries" obeyed that Order, Evangelizing the Americas, Asia, & Africa, during the 16th-19th centuries AD; and that, ultimately, those "Missions" have motivated non-whites, world-wide, to Hate whites, for "shoving the Gospel down their throats".

Has obeying "God in heaven", influenced "race relations", betweens whites & non-whites, on earth ?

Well, clearly, you have u!nderstood very little or nothing.

The crusades were a response to muslim jihad against Christians, not the other way round.

And missionaries have been so succesful in spreading the gospel that a very large percentage of christians nowadays are what you call "non-whites".

 

[nitroz]

aw

 

[Dr.Drock]

Another coward on the experiment? What's the matter, don't think your "groups" can pull it off?

Lol you're doing a good job. Challenge me to do an impossible experiment, then call me a coward for not pulling off the impossible experiment. You're covered on all grounds!

No, it is not an impossible experiment. You could advertise to start a "non-Christian" (or what ever group you wanted to use) neighborhood or subdivision. You could put up signs asking Christians not to share their beliefs there or solicit. You could do monuments with sayings that you believe. Have a common area, and welcome the neighborhood to spend time together. See how it works out, will it grow and expand, or will people sell out and move?

Yep perfectly possible, now if you could let me borrow a few million dollars to get this off the ground, I'd appreciate it.

You know it's impossible, just walk off with your invisible winner's crown and be happy with it.

 

[koshergrl]

We do have examples of long standing atheist communities to compare to.

Russia, Revolutionary France, China, Camodia under Khmer Rouge, Cuba.

Wonderful examples of enlightened atheism.

"
State atheism is the official "promotion of atheism" by a government, sometimes combined with active suppression of religious freedom and practice.[1] In contrast, a secular state purports to be officially neutral in matters of religion, supporting neither religion nor irreligion.[2] Atheism is either the lack of belief in a deity or the belief that none exist,[3] and forms a binary pair with theism,[4] which is the belief that at least one deity exists.[5][6] Atheists have offered various rationales for not believing in any deity, but there is no one ideology or set of behaviors to which all atheists adhere.[7] Furthermore, atheism figures in to certain religious and spiritual belief systems, such as Jainism, Buddhism, Hinduism, and Neopagan movements[8] such as Wicca.[9]
State atheism may refer to a government's anti-clericalism, which opposes religious institutional power and influence, real or alleged, in all aspects of public and political life, including the involvement of religion in the everyday life of the citizen.[10] State promotion of atheism as a public norm was first practised during a brief period in Revolutionary France. Since then, such a policy was repeated only in Revolutionary Mexico and some communist states. The Soviet Union had a long history of state atheism,[11] in which social success largely required individuals to profess atheism, stay away from churches and even vandalize them; this attitude was especially militant during the middle Stalinist era from 1929-1939.[12][13][14] The Soviet Union attempted to suppress religion over wide areas of its influence, including places such as central Asia.[15] The Socialist People's Republic of Albania under Enver Hoxha went so far as to officially ban the practice of every religion.[16"

State atheism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Dr.Drock]

We do have examples of long standing atheist communities to compare to.

Russia, Revolutionary France, China, Camodia under Khmer Rouge, Cuba.

Wonderful examples of enlightened atheism.

"
State atheism is the official "promotion of atheism" by a government, sometimes combined with active suppression of religious freedom and practice.[1] In contrast, a secular state purports to be officially neutral in matters of religion, supporting neither religion nor irreligion.[2] Atheism is either the lack of belief in a deity or the belief that none exist,[3] and forms a binary pair with theism,[4] which is the belief that at least one deity exists.[5][6] Atheists have offered various rationales for not believing in any deity, but there is no one ideology or set of behaviors to which all atheists adhere.[7] Furthermore, atheism figures in to certain religious and spiritual belief systems, such as Jainism, Buddhism, Hinduism, and Neopagan movements[8] such as Wicca.[9]
State atheism may refer to a government's anti-clericalism, which opposes religious institutional power and influence, real or alleged, in all aspects of public and political life, including the involvement of religion in the everyday life of the citizen.[10] State promotion of atheism as a public norm was first practised during a brief period in Revolutionary France. Since then, such a policy was repeated only in Revolutionary Mexico and some communist states. The Soviet Union had a long history of state atheism,[11] in which social success largely required individuals to profess atheism, stay away from churches and even vandalize them; this attitude was especially militant during the middle Stalinist era from 1929-1939.[12][13][14] The Soviet Union attempted to suppress religion over wide areas of its influence, including places such as central Asia.[15] The Socialist People's Republic of Albania under Enver Hoxha went so far as to officially ban the practice of every religion.[16"

State atheism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

and I could provide a list of the horrors done by christianity-endorsed gov'ts and we'd end up at the same conclusion I already said, that every version of religion or lack of religion has committed atrocities. So we'll avoid going through this pointless exercise again. If that makes you feel like you won, by all means grab a sheet of paper from your printer, tear it up and throw the confetti into the air.

The last thing I want are my religious views endorsed by gov't, it's too bad you don't share that view.

 

[koshergrl]

No, you couldn't.

And we aren't just talking about horrors, though those are damning enough. We're also talking about the fostering of scholarship, liberty, freedom.

I think it's fairly obvious that atheists in this thread lie when they say there is no way to compare atheist community with religious/christian community, that there are no examples of atheist communities to draw information from.

Of course there are, and they put the lie to you. Atheist communities seemingly without exception are oppressive, brutal, murderous and tyrannical.

 

[Dr.Drock]

No, you couldn't.

And we aren't just talking about horrors, though those are damning enough. We're also talking about the fostering of scholarship, liberty, freedom.

I think it's fairly obvious that atheists in this thread lie when they say there is no way to compare atheist community with religious/christian community, that there are no examples of atheist communities to draw information from.

Of course there are, and they put the lie to you. Atheist communities seemingly without exception are oppressive, brutal, murderous and tyrannical.

Let the hate flow. It's just what Jesus wants you to do.

 

[koshergrl]

It's hateful to point out that you're lying when you claim we have no examples of atheist community to compare Christian community to?

Or are you referencing the hatred the atheist community has for those of faith, as well as a definite antipathy towards scholarship and truth?

 

[Dr.Drock]

It's hateful to point out that you're lying when you claim we have no examples of atheist community to compare Christian community to?

Or are you referencing the hatred the atheist community has for those of faith, as well as a definite antipathy towards scholarship and truth?

It's impossible to compare communities because there are no communities with the same measureables. I could pick and choose a terrible christian community from the past and compare it to Denmark of today, and use that selective information to promote how atheist communities are better. But that'd be stupid, as it's not an even comparison because no even comparison exists. You can keep pretending their is, being the science denier you are, I don't expect rational thought to be of much importance to you.

Obvously your bigotry is vitally important to you, let the hate flow. Don't let me stand in your way .