A lot of Atheist and agnostics just don't get it

[diver52]

There is nothing wrong with accepting knowledge on the authority of others as long as some effort is made to test the knowledge being shared.

I don’t really see you testing your beliefs. I see you confirming your biases.

This conversation began with me simply stating that the title of the thread was true for me. I really just didn't get it. I was asked why and I explained myself. Since then, there seems to be some importance in showing me the error of my ways. You all could have just said "ok" to my statement and that would have been the end of it. Now it is my fault because I am allowing my biases to prevent me from seeing that you are right.

Here's the thing, Ding. You have never asked me what my beliefs are. You have only been concerned with your own so we have only talked about your own.

And my involvement started with your comment that God can’t be good.

Is that your belief?

.

And my involvement started with your comment that God can’t be good.

howabout defending the christian religion's history of persecution and victimization of the innocent - your false 4th century political document disguised as a religion.

instead of hiding behind the skirt of the Almighty. and pathological liars.

Religion does not persecute. People do that. Persecution happens because people aren't particularly nice. It was going on before Christianity and it will continue to go on after Christianity.

.

Religion does not persecute. People do that. Persecution happens because people aren't particularly nice. It was going on before Christianity and it will continue to go on after Christianity.

think again on the first ... your reactionary rhetoric is nothing new.

the difference being christians are conducting themselves surreptitiously by portraying themselves as representing the events of the 1st century and the religion of antiquity they in fact abandoned to write a revisionist accounting as a political persuasion disguised as a religion, the 4th century christian bible ...

Nonetheless, people do the persecuting and it is not restricted to Christians by any stretch.

 

[BreezeWood]

This conversation began with me simply stating that the title of the thread was true for me. I really just didn't get it. I was asked why and I explained myself. Since then, there seems to be some importance in showing me the error of my ways. You all could have just said "ok" to my statement and that would have been the end of it. Now it is my fault because I am allowing my biases to prevent me from seeing that you are right.

Here's the thing, Ding. You have never asked me what my beliefs are. You have only been concerned with your own so we have only talked about your own.

And my involvement started with your comment that God can’t be good.

Is that your belief?

.

And my involvement started with your comment that God can’t be good.

howabout defending the christian religion's history of persecution and victimization of the innocent - your false 4th century political document disguised as a religion.

instead of hiding behind the skirt of the Almighty. and pathological liars.

Religion does not persecute. People do that. Persecution happens because people aren't particularly nice. It was going on before Christianity and it will continue to go on after Christianity.

.

Religion does not persecute. People do that. Persecution happens because people aren't particularly nice. It was going on before Christianity and it will continue to go on after Christianity.

think again on the first ... your reactionary rhetoric is nothing new.

the difference being christians are conducting themselves surreptitiously by portraying themselves as representing the events of the 1st century and the religion of antiquity they in fact abandoned to write a revisionist accounting as a political persuasion disguised as a religion, the 4th century christian bible ...

You mean representing themselves as sinners? Yep. Guilty as charged.

.

You mean representing themselves as sinners? Yep. Guilty as charged.

you have that in a nut shell -

absolutely, that is a 4th century adaptation with out accreditation ... as not being the subject matter of the 1st century events.

 

[BreezeWood]

This conversation began with me simply stating that the title of the thread was true for me. I really just didn't get it. I was asked why and I explained myself. Since then, there seems to be some importance in showing me the error of my ways. You all could have just said "ok" to my statement and that would have been the end of it. Now it is my fault because I am allowing my biases to prevent me from seeing that you are right.

Here's the thing, Ding. You have never asked me what my beliefs are. You have only been concerned with your own so we have only talked about your own.

And my involvement started with your comment that God can’t be good.

Is that your belief?

.

And my involvement started with your comment that God can’t be good.

howabout defending the christian religion's history of persecution and victimization of the innocent - your false 4th century political document disguised as a religion.

instead of hiding behind the skirt of the Almighty. and pathological liars.

Religion does not persecute. People do that. Persecution happens because people aren't particularly nice. It was going on before Christianity and it will continue to go on after Christianity.

.

Religion does not persecute. People do that. Persecution happens because people aren't particularly nice. It was going on before Christianity and it will continue to go on after Christianity.

think again on the first ... your reactionary rhetoric is nothing new.

the difference being christians are conducting themselves surreptitiously by portraying themselves as representing the events of the 1st century and the religion of antiquity they in fact abandoned to write a revisionist accounting as a political persuasion disguised as a religion, the 4th century christian bible ...

Nonetheless, people do the persecuting and it is not restricted to Christians by any stretch.

.

Nonetheless, people do the persecuting and it is not restricted to Christians by any stretch.

what's your point sherlock ... all three desert religions have abandoned the religion of antiquity - and are the same pathological "people" - is that better for you. uninterrupted through history to the present day.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Nonetheless, people do the persecuting and it is not restricted to Christians by any stretch.

It certainly isn't. But one would be derelict not to point out that they can find the instructions on the "correct" way to do it in their holy texts.

 

[diver52]

Nonetheless, people do the persecuting and it is not restricted to Christians by any stretch.

It certainly isn't. But one would be derelict not to point out that they can find the instructions on the "correct" way to do it in their holy texts.

Of course they can. But that does not make them unique. It's just people doing what people do.

 

[diver52]

And my involvement started with your comment that God can’t be good.

Is that your belief?

.

And my involvement started with your comment that God can’t be good.

howabout defending the christian religion's history of persecution and victimization of the innocent - your false 4th century political document disguised as a religion.

instead of hiding behind the skirt of the Almighty. and pathological liars.

Religion does not persecute. People do that. Persecution happens because people aren't particularly nice. It was going on before Christianity and it will continue to go on after Christianity.

.

Religion does not persecute. People do that. Persecution happens because people aren't particularly nice. It was going on before Christianity and it will continue to go on after Christianity.

think again on the first ... your reactionary rhetoric is nothing new.

the difference being christians are conducting themselves surreptitiously by portraying themselves as representing the events of the 1st century and the religion of antiquity they in fact abandoned to write a revisionist accounting as a political persuasion disguised as a religion, the 4th century christian bible ...

Nonetheless, people do the persecuting and it is not restricted to Christians by any stretch.

.

Nonetheless, people do the persecuting and it is not restricted to Christians by any stretch.

what's your point sherlock ... all three desert religions have abandoned the religion of antiquity - and are the same pathological "people" - is that better for you. uninterrupted through history to the present day.

And the communists of Russian and China killed millions of their own people. Buddhists have engaged in genocide. I think you would be hard pressed to point to any group of people that haven't engaged in violence, repression and general mayhem. It isn't religion that causes it. It's people.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

But that does not make them unique.

Right, it makes their religions unique. They aren't going to find that in a harry potter book,or in a Stephen hawking book. And, even if they did, these books don't carrythe 'divine authority' of their religious texts.

At some point we have to be honest with ourselves and include religions and faith, in general, in these discussions.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

And the communists of Russian and China killed millions of their own people.

Both of which were VERY religious socities. Religion is not just found in iron aged,plagiarized rags. It is also found in modern cults of personality. North Korea might be the most religious country on earth. They worship the gods that are the Kim family.

 

[diver52]

And the communists of Russian and China killed millions of their own people.

Both of which were VERY religious socities. Religion is not just found in iron aged,plagiarized rags. It is also found in modern cults of personality. North Korea might be the most religious country on earth. They worship the gods that are the Kim family.

Every society is religious. In all of recorded history there has never been a human society which did not have two things - religion and government. It is part of how we interact. So again, nothing unique. Just people being people.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

And the communists of Russian and China killed millions of their own people.

Both of which were VERY religious socities. Religion is not just found in iron aged,plagiarized rags. It is also found in modern cults of personality. North Korea might be the most religious country on earth. They worship the gods that are the Kim family.

Every society is religious. In all of recorded history there has never been a human society which did not have two things - religion and government. It is part of how we interact. So again, nothing unique. Just people being people.

Of course, that is rubbish. This is no longer the dark ages. People being able to draw a literal instruction to commit evil from a book granted divine authority is not just "people being people".

Religion was our first and worst attempt at morality and ethics. And now it is time to put away the stone tools of our ancestors. And "christians being christian s" means something much different in 2019 america than it did in 1400 Europe. Did the bible change? Nope. Society changed. Culture changed. It was refomred by better, secular ideas that are far superior to iron aged piles of crap that we call holy texts.

 

[diver52]

But that does not make them unique.

Right, it makes their religions unique. They aren't going to find that in a harry potter book,or in a Stephen hawking book. And, even if they did, these books don't carrythe 'divine authority' of their religious texts.

At some point we have to be honest with ourselves and include religions and faith, in general, in these discussions.

Include away. But to be honest we also have to include a realistic look at our species rather than look for external things on which to blame our issues.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

But to be honest we also have to include a realistic look at our species

Oh, absolutely. First, we have an innate tendency to believe utter,magical nonsense. Second,our hard wired empathy only takes us so far.

Would you take care of which ideas to which your young child is exposed? Of course you would. Because that child does not jave the tools to discern reason from magical hooha, as an adult should. To ensure that more adults do, we ahould be giving wveryone a scientifoc education and teaching basic logic at a very young age. As it is now, one has to make it to collegiate level Discrete Mathematics, or philosophy, or computer programming to get this.

 

[diver52]

And the communists of Russian and China killed millions of their own people.

Both of which were VERY religious socities. Religion is not just found in iron aged,plagiarized rags. It is also found in modern cults of personality. North Korea might be the most religious country on earth. They worship the gods that are the Kim family.

Every society is religious. In all of recorded history there has never been a human society which did not have two things - religion and government. It is part of how we interact. So again, nothing unique. Just people being people.

Of course, that is rubbish. This is no longer the dark ages. People being able to draw a literal instruction to commit evil from a book granted divine authority is not just "people being people".

Religion was our first and worst attempt at morality and ethics. And now it is time to put away the stone tools of our ancestors. And "christians being christian s" means something much different in 2019 america than it did in 1400 Europe. Did the bible change? Nope. Society changed. Culture changed. It was refomred by better, secular ideas that are far superior to iron aged piles of crap that we call holy texts.

Nothing has changed except the technology to make us more effective killers. Religion has never been an attempt at morality or ethics. It is a social construct which provides a non-mortal support for government.

 

[diver52]

But to be honest we also have to include a realistic look at our species

Oh, absolutely. First, we have an innate tendency to believe utter,magical nonsense. Second,our hard wired empathy only takes us so far.

Would you take care of which ideas to which your young child is exposed? Of course you would. Because that child does not jave the tools to discern reason from magical hooha, as an adult should. To ensure that more adults do, we ahould be giving wveryone a scientifoc education and teaching basic logic at a very young age. As it is now, one has to make it to collegiate level Discrete Mathematics, or philosophy, or computer programming to get this.

What we have is the ability to think beyond the moment. We can visualize the tiger behind the rock so we are prepared for the tiger behind the rock. We are also experimenters. We want to understand our environment because that is how we keep it from killing us. What we do not understand, we tend to make up. That is our nature.

Why people think we are hardwired for empathy is beyond me. Any look at our history should toss that idea out the window. We protect our progeny, as any animal does. But anyone outside that is fair game and we can get very inventive on how to cause harm.

So you would never tell your young kid that Santa Claus was coming? Or read them a Dr. Seuss book? You wouldn't let them read Harry Potter - which is crammed with magic? Childhood is a non-stop barrage of magical stories told to them by their parents. And then we graduate them into the magic of politics. Liberals/Conservatives are bad. Only this political system works. It's all magical bullshit because human beings can't stand the idea that they don't actually know something.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Nothing has changed except the technology to make us more effective killers.

Utter nonsense. Scientific enlightenment,for instance, has brought us the tools to form better morals and ethics. Bad ideas like slavery are displaced by better ideas, thanks to secular reform due to ideas like classical liberalism.

 

[Meriweather]

I have already said there are individuals, just not as a society. For example, what do you think Jesus' position might be as to our nuclear arsenal and all that it implies?

What political position did Jesus take in his own day? That's right, he did not have one. His focus was entirely on how the individual could improve the relationships s/he had with his/her fellowman and with God. He did not urge a single person to take up a political position. He simply asked everyone to focus on bringing the kingdom of God into his/her own life, because that is what is within everyone's reach.

 

[Meriweather]

Not cynical at all. Just recognition of human nature.

Perhaps. But then people who recognize human nature should also be able to recognize when people overcome that nature.

 

[Meriweather]

That is why God isn't relevant. If love does not come from within you, you do not have it.

Which organ should that love come from? The liver, the gall bladder, the lungs? Aren't they all nourished by physical means?

Love comes from the inner spirit, and it is God who is Spirit who nourishes our spirits.

 

[Meriweather]

It seems even people who agree there is a God can't agree on what that even means. There lies the problem with trying to point to things around us and just calling it proof. We can't even say what it is it is proof of.

The same can be said of love.

 

[ding]

And my involvement started with your comment that God can’t be good.

Is that your belief?

.

And my involvement started with your comment that God can’t be good.

howabout defending the christian religion's history of persecution and victimization of the innocent - your false 4th century political document disguised as a religion.

instead of hiding behind the skirt of the Almighty. and pathological liars.

Religion does not persecute. People do that. Persecution happens because people aren't particularly nice. It was going on before Christianity and it will continue to go on after Christianity.

.

Religion does not persecute. People do that. Persecution happens because people aren't particularly nice. It was going on before Christianity and it will continue to go on after Christianity.

think again on the first ... your reactionary rhetoric is nothing new.

the difference being christians are conducting themselves surreptitiously by portraying themselves as representing the events of the 1st century and the religion of antiquity they in fact abandoned to write a revisionist accounting as a political persuasion disguised as a religion, the 4th century christian bible ...

You mean representing themselves as sinners? Yep. Guilty as charged.

.

You mean representing themselves as sinners? Yep. Guilty as charged.

you have that in a nut shell -

absolutely, that is a 4th century adaptation with out accreditation ... as not being the subject matter of the 1st century events.

Beats pointing fingers at others unjustly.

As near as I can tell, you are the one persecuting others. Not me.