A question for the anti-choice crowd.

[Czernobog]

Well, then. We're obviously done. I have not insulted you, called you names or felt the need to denigrate you. I have, in fact, congratulated you, and complimented you on the courage of your convictions, however fruitless they may be.

Since, either you believe me to be of such low intelligence, or you are incapable of discussion without insult, I see no reason to continue this engagement, do you?

Sent from my 5054N using Tapatalk

I haven't insulted you, called you names, or denigrated you.

Well, then, you believe me to be of such low intelligence ("idiot"), that I cannot see any value in continuing our discussion, can you?

I'm trying to educate you but some idiots are too stupid to learn. You're apparently one of them.

So, again, why do you continue to engage me?

I believe you're the one that said you were doing to ignore me. You've replied back 2, 3, 4 times. That was either a lie on your part or you really are stupid enough to not know what ignore means.
The better question is why do you continue to respond to someone you say you're going to ignore? A lie or stupidity on your part?

Hence my suggestion that you go back and read the edited comment. Nothing in the edited comment said anything about ignoring you. Apparently, you are such an idiot that you can't even scroll back up a screen to read an edit.

 

[Czernobog]

Well..... my parents are both extremely conservative... and I myself was adopted. And my parents founded a church, and they have always promoted adoption. Many in my parents conservative church adopted.

And that proves that only conservatives are willing to do that? I know many liberals that adopt, too, and are willing to help the poor besides supporting programs that do that.

Dave Thomas founder of Wendy's, was a massively conservative person, and he was adopted, and he of course started the Dave Thomas foundation for adoption.

Geez, now you've listed two people who have adopted and are conservatives....I guess in your mind that settles it, only conservatives adopt. Bwahahaha.

The Gift of Adoption Fund charity was stated by Christian fundamentalists. I would assume.... they were likely conservative. I don't meet many people described as fundamentalists, that are left-wing liberals.

Maybe because you aren't looking in the right places? Many of the so called fundamentalists that push archaic ideas and call themselves Republicans have taken Christianity to a new level....one they've created themselves, just like the Pharisees in Jesus' time. There are many true Christians that don't agree with the archaic rules Republicans are trying to push....and that doesn't make them any less Christian.

And, my point was that it wasn't just "conservatives" that were doing the adopting. Maybe if you had followed the whole conversation instead of just jumping in and offering your sophomoric responses (as if I had said that conservatives "never" adopt) you would have understood that.

Now as for proving all adopt is one group or another... good luck. I doubt there are any numbers either way.

Which, if you had read my previous comments you would have understood that I was trying to point that out. Instead, you named a few conservatives that have adopted. Logic is not your strong suit.

Liberals don't care about the poor. If you did to the level you claim, the rest of us wouldn't be forced to fund programs you support. You'd simply provide them what you think they deserve with your money. You do know you can do that without government involvement, don't you?

You seem to be confused. It is not a lack of concern for the poor. It is an equal concern that everyone in this nation who is able do their fair share.

Us liberals pay our taxes without complaint. Those taxes are used for things with which we agree, ideologically, as well as for things with which we do not. Still, we pay our fair share without complaint.

It is only you fake conservatives who constantly bitch, and whine like little children about having to pay your fair share, and have it used for things you don't like.

We, suck it up, buttercup. Pay your fucking taxes, and quit bitching.

Sent from my 5054N using Tapatalk

Yet you cry babies keep shedding tears that this guy or that guy isn't paying their fair share, which is it child? Are the people following the law paying their fair share or not?

Czernobog states that he believe EACH citizen has the responsibility of funding the government of the nation yet justified how it's OK that some don't. Which one is it? He won't answer.

Again, you seem to have a problem with reading comprehension. That, or you're a liar. How about you go back and read what I actually wrote.

 

[Rambunctious]

I have no more right to impose my personal moral views about abortion on someone else

wrong...if everyone that is in favor of reducing abortions would be outwardly honest maybe there would be less abortion. And that would be a good thing. It's killing there is no two ways about it. I realize there are times it may be necessary due to the health of the mother but abortion out of convenience is selfish and wrong.

 

[Czernobog]

I have no more right to impose my personal moral views about abortion on someone else

wrong...if everyone that is in favor of reducing abortions would be outwardly honest maybe there would be less abortion. And that would be a good thing. It's killing there is no two ways about it. I realize there are times it may be necessary due to the health of the mother but abortion out of convenience is selfish and wrong.

"...is selfish and wrong..." is a personal moral opinion. That is precisely what I am talking about. Whether I agree with you, or not - and, please note that I have not said if I do - no one has the right to dictate to others that they behave in accordance with one's personal moral opinions.

 

[OKTexas]

Well..... my parents are both extremely conservative... and I myself was adopted. And my parents founded a church, and they have always promoted adoption. Many in my parents conservative church adopted.

And that proves that only conservatives are willing to do that? I know many liberals that adopt, too, and are willing to help the poor besides supporting programs that do that.

Dave Thomas founder of Wendy's, was a massively conservative person, and he was adopted, and he of course started the Dave Thomas foundation for adoption.

Geez, now you've listed two people who have adopted and are conservatives....I guess in your mind that settles it, only conservatives adopt. Bwahahaha.

The Gift of Adoption Fund charity was stated by Christian fundamentalists. I would assume.... they were likely conservative. I don't meet many people described as fundamentalists, that are left-wing liberals.

Maybe because you aren't looking in the right places? Many of the so called fundamentalists that push archaic ideas and call themselves Republicans have taken Christianity to a new level....one they've created themselves, just like the Pharisees in Jesus' time. There are many true Christians that don't agree with the archaic rules Republicans are trying to push....and that doesn't make them any less Christian.

And, my point was that it wasn't just "conservatives" that were doing the adopting. Maybe if you had followed the whole conversation instead of just jumping in and offering your sophomoric responses (as if I had said that conservatives "never" adopt) you would have understood that.

Now as for proving all adopt is one group or another... good luck. I doubt there are any numbers either way.

Which, if you had read my previous comments you would have understood that I was trying to point that out. Instead, you named a few conservatives that have adopted. Logic is not your strong suit.

Liberals don't care about the poor. If you did to the level you claim, the rest of us wouldn't be forced to fund programs you support. You'd simply provide them what you think they deserve with your money. You do know you can do that without government involvement, don't you?

You seem to be confused. It is not a lack of concern for the poor. It is an equal concern that everyone in this nation who is able do their fair share.

Us liberals pay our taxes without complaint. Those taxes are used for things with which we agree, ideologically, as well as for things with which we do not. Still, we pay our fair share without complaint.

It is only you fake conservatives who constantly bitch, and whine like little children about having to pay your fair share, and have it used for things you don't like.

We, suck it up, buttercup. Pay your fucking taxes, and quit bitching.

Sent from my 5054N using Tapatalk

Yet you cry babies keep shedding tears that this guy or that guy isn't paying their fair share, which is it child? Are the people following the law paying their fair share or not?

Czernobog states that he believe EACH citizen has the responsibility of funding the government of the nation yet justified how it's OK that some don't. Which one is it? He won't answer.

I guess my question was too difficult for him also. He skipped right over it.

 

[OKTexas]

I have no more right to impose my personal moral views about abortion on someone else

wrong...if everyone that is in favor of reducing abortions would be outwardly honest maybe there would be less abortion. And that would be a good thing. It's killing there is no two ways about it. I realize there are times it may be necessary due to the health of the mother but abortion out of convenience is selfish and wrong.

"...is selfish and wrong..." is a personal moral opinion. That is precisely what I am talking about. Whether I agree with you, or not - and, please note that I have not said if I do - no one has the right to dictate to others that they behave in accordance with one's personal moral opinions.

Does that mean you don't think Christian businesses should be forced to provide services to gay events?

 

[Boss]

Pro-choice is precisely the right word, because, regardless of my personal opinion of abortion, I wholeheartedly believe that the decision to have an abortion, or not, should rest squarely, and only with the person whose life that will affect - the pregnant woman.

What about the unborn fetus? Seems an abortion procedure might effect their life. Since we can't really ascertain their opinion, we have to err on the side of nature and assume they want to live like most living organisms.

 

[Czernobog]

Where's your proof it's conservatives doing the adopting? You fail.

Well..... my parents are both extremely conservative... and I myself was adopted. And my parents founded a church, and they have always promoted adoption. Many in my parents conservative church adopted.

And that proves that only conservatives are willing to do that? I know many liberals that adopt, too, and are willing to help the poor besides supporting programs that do that.

Dave Thomas founder of Wendy's, was a massively conservative person, and he was adopted, and he of course started the Dave Thomas foundation for adoption.

Geez, now you've listed two people who have adopted and are conservatives....I guess in your mind that settles it, only conservatives adopt. Bwahahaha.

The Gift of Adoption Fund charity was stated by Christian fundamentalists. I would assume.... they were likely conservative. I don't meet many people described as fundamentalists, that are left-wing liberals.

Maybe because you aren't looking in the right places? Many of the so called fundamentalists that push archaic ideas and call themselves Republicans have taken Christianity to a new level....one they've created themselves, just like the Pharisees in Jesus' time. There are many true Christians that don't agree with the archaic rules Republicans are trying to push....and that doesn't make them any less Christian.

And, my point was that it wasn't just "conservatives" that were doing the adopting. Maybe if you had followed the whole conversation instead of just jumping in and offering your sophomoric responses (as if I had said that conservatives "never" adopt) you would have understood that.

Now as for proving all adopt is one group or another... good luck. I doubt there are any numbers either way.

Which, if you had read my previous comments you would have understood that I was trying to point that out. Instead, you named a few conservatives that have adopted. Logic is not your strong suit.

Liberals don't care about the poor. If you did to the level you claim, the rest of us wouldn't be forced to fund programs you support. You'd simply provide them what you think they deserve with your money. You do know you can do that without government involvement, don't you?

You seem to be confused. It is not a lack of concern for the poor. It is an equal concern that everyone in this nation who is able do their fair share.

Us liberals pay our taxes without complaint. Those taxes are used for things with which we agree, ideologically, as well as for things with which we do not. Still, we pay our fair share without complaint.

It is only you fake conservatives who constantly bitch, and whine like little children about having to pay your fair share, and have it used for things you don't like.

We, suck it up, buttercup. Pay your fucking taxes, and quit bitching.

Sent from my 5054N using Tapatalk

Yet you cry babies keep shedding tears that this guy or that guy isn't paying their fair share, which is it child? Are the people following the law paying their fair share or not?

No one is suggesting that you are not paying. Although, "fair share' would be a topic for an entirely different discussion. it's the whining like little school girls about "Oh! We don't want to pay for that!!!" to which we are referring. "Wah! Wah! my taxes are being used to feed poor people! Wah. Wah!"

How about you all shut the fuck up, pay your taxes, and quit bitching, like us ebul, heartless libruls?

 

[Czernobog]

I have no more right to impose my personal moral views about abortion on someone else

wrong...if everyone that is in favor of reducing abortions would be outwardly honest maybe there would be less abortion. And that would be a good thing. It's killing there is no two ways about it. I realize there are times it may be necessary due to the health of the mother but abortion out of convenience is selfish and wrong.

"...is selfish and wrong..." is a personal moral opinion. That is precisely what I am talking about. Whether I agree with you, or not - and, please note that I have not said if I do - no one has the right to dictate to others that they behave in accordance with one's personal moral opinions.

Does that mean you don't think Christian businesses should be forced to provide services to gay events?

Nice try. A business is not a person, I don't care what you fake conservatives want to claim. The owner of a business is entitled to believe, and act, in their private lives, any way they see fit. However, we established a long time ago that businesses do not get to discriminate based on personal prejudices. Now, how about we get back on topic, yes?

 

[Chuz Life]

Why don't any of you proabort leftards ever just admit that an abortion kills a child and denies to them the equal protections of our laws?

You could still support abortion and believe it or not, I and others might even respect you for being honest about it.

First of all, your "proabort leftard" attack belies your claim of ever being able to respect anyone who's views differ from yours. Second, we don't admit that, because we do not agree with the position.

1. I don't have any respect for any proabort leftards and I admit that much freely. That said, I would have MUCH MORE respect for a proabort leftard who has the backbone to admit that an abortion kills a child and denies them their rights than I do for anyone who can't or won't admit the same.

2. If you are genuinely so ignorant that you honestly believe that a child's life and existence doesn't begin until they live too long and develop too much to be denied anymore? You are too fucking far beyond reason for me to worry about reasoning with anyway.

 

[Czernobog]

Pro-choice is precisely the right word, because, regardless of my personal opinion of abortion, I wholeheartedly believe that the decision to have an abortion, or not, should rest squarely, and only with the person whose life that will affect - the pregnant woman.

What about the unborn fetus? Seems an abortion procedure might effect their life. Since we can't really ascertain their opinion, we have to err on the side of nature and assume they want to live like most living organisms.

Since you deleted the part that speaks directly to your question, I can only assume that you read my post in its entirety. Why don't you go back, and reread the part that you deleted, and I think you may find the answer to your question, even though you clearly won't like it, based on your choosing to delete it, and pretending that I hadn't already anticipated your rather sophomoric question, and had already answered it.

 

[OKTexas]

Well..... my parents are both extremely conservative... and I myself was adopted. And my parents founded a church, and they have always promoted adoption. Many in my parents conservative church adopted.

And that proves that only conservatives are willing to do that? I know many liberals that adopt, too, and are willing to help the poor besides supporting programs that do that.

Dave Thomas founder of Wendy's, was a massively conservative person, and he was adopted, and he of course started the Dave Thomas foundation for adoption.

Geez, now you've listed two people who have adopted and are conservatives....I guess in your mind that settles it, only conservatives adopt. Bwahahaha.

The Gift of Adoption Fund charity was stated by Christian fundamentalists. I would assume.... they were likely conservative. I don't meet many people described as fundamentalists, that are left-wing liberals.

Maybe because you aren't looking in the right places? Many of the so called fundamentalists that push archaic ideas and call themselves Republicans have taken Christianity to a new level....one they've created themselves, just like the Pharisees in Jesus' time. There are many true Christians that don't agree with the archaic rules Republicans are trying to push....and that doesn't make them any less Christian.

And, my point was that it wasn't just "conservatives" that were doing the adopting. Maybe if you had followed the whole conversation instead of just jumping in and offering your sophomoric responses (as if I had said that conservatives "never" adopt) you would have understood that.

Now as for proving all adopt is one group or another... good luck. I doubt there are any numbers either way.

Which, if you had read my previous comments you would have understood that I was trying to point that out. Instead, you named a few conservatives that have adopted. Logic is not your strong suit.

Liberals don't care about the poor. If you did to the level you claim, the rest of us wouldn't be forced to fund programs you support. You'd simply provide them what you think they deserve with your money. You do know you can do that without government involvement, don't you?

You seem to be confused. It is not a lack of concern for the poor. It is an equal concern that everyone in this nation who is able do their fair share.

Us liberals pay our taxes without complaint. Those taxes are used for things with which we agree, ideologically, as well as for things with which we do not. Still, we pay our fair share without complaint.

It is only you fake conservatives who constantly bitch, and whine like little children about having to pay your fair share, and have it used for things you don't like.

We, suck it up, buttercup. Pay your fucking taxes, and quit bitching.

Sent from my 5054N using Tapatalk

Yet you cry babies keep shedding tears that this guy or that guy isn't paying their fair share, which is it child? Are the people following the law paying their fair share or not?

No one is suggesting that you are not paying. Although, "fair share' would be a topic for an entirely different discussion. it's the whining like little school girls about "Oh! We don't want to pay for that!!!" to which we are referring. "Wah! Wah! my taxes are being used to feed poor people! Wah. Wah!"

How about you all shut the fuck up, pay your taxes, and quit bitching, like us ebul, heartless libruls?

Sure, just as soon as you folks reduce spending to only those areas provided for in the Constitution. Deal?

BTW you didn't answer my question.

 

[Czernobog]

Why don't any of you proabort leftards ever just admit that an abortion kills a child and denies to them the equal protections of our laws?

You could still support abortion and believe it or not, I and others might even respect you for being honest about it.

First of all, your "proabort leftard" attack belies your claim of ever being able to respect anyone who's views differ from yours. Second, we don't admit that, because we do not agree with the position.

1. I don't have any respect for any proabort leftards and I admit that much freely. That said, I would have MUCH MORE respect for a proabort leftard who has the backbone to admit that an abortion kills a child and denies them their rights than I do for anyone who can't or won't admit the same.

So, just how much respect is "much more" than zero? Wouldn't that still be zero? So, since you have already demonstrated that you are incapable of respect for anyone who disagrees with you, why should any of us give so much as a single fuck what you think of us?

That being the case, i saw no reason to bother responding to your second, irrelevant, point.

 

[Boss]

Testimony of Brenda Pratt Shafer, RN - eye witness to partial birth abortions

I could see the baby. I could see the heartbeat. And the doctor wanted me to stand right beside him, because he wanted me to see everything there was about partial-birth abortion. So I stood there. He went in, guided by ultrasound. He took a pair of forceps and went in and turned the baby because it wasn't in this position at the time. He found a foot and he pulled the baby's foot down through the birth canal, bringing it down and grabbed another foot, and literally started pulling the baby out, breech position, feet first. And he kept pulling it down, and I'm seeing this baby come pulled out of the mommy, his butt, his chest, and then, he delivered both these arms. And the lady's in stirrups, just like you have a baby or just like you're having an ob/gyn examination. And the baby, the only thing that was supporting the baby was the doctor was holding it in with his two fingers, holding the neck so the head was just inside the mommy.

And the baby was kicking his feet, hanging there, moving his little fingers and his little arms. I couldn't believe -- I don't know what I thought killed it in three days, but he was moving and I kept watching that baby move. And I kept thinking to myself, this isn't happening and I thought I was going to pass out. And I kept telling myself, I'm a professional, I can handle this, you know, this is right, this is supposed to be, and I supposed to handle this, I'm a nurse. He then took a pair of scissors and jammed them into the back of the baby's head. And the baby jerked out, like a startle reflex, like a baby does if you throw him up a little bit and he jumps. And then the baby was real rigid. The doctor then opened up the scissors to make a hole. He took a high powered suction machine with a catheter and stuck it in that hole and suctioned the baby's brains out. And the baby went completely limp.

And I have seen that in my mind a thousand or more times, of that baby, watching the life just drain out of it. And like I said before, I've seen babies die in my hands, I had people die in my hands. But it wasn't anything like seeing that vision of watching this abortion. And I almost threw up all over the floor. I was literally just breathing and saying, "Don't throw up, don't throw up, you're gonna be embarrassed if you do this." So I tried not to.He pulled the head out, he cut the umbilical cord and threw it in a pan, and delivered the placenta and threw it in the same pan, he covered it up and took it out.

Well, this mommy wanted to see her baby. And the doctor told us ahead of time, he said, "Try to discourage her from seeing the baby." He doesn't like that. But she had the right to see it. So they cleaned it up and we cleaned her up, and we walked her out of the operating room, and took her to a room and handed her the baby.

The mother held her dead baby in her arms...

...She held that baby in her arms and she screamed and prayed to God...to forgive her, and for that baby to forgive her, and she held it and rocked it, and told him that she loved him. And I looked in that baby's face, and he had the most angelic perfect face I've ever seen, and I just kept thinking, he's an angel now, he's in heaven. And I couldn't take it. In all the years I've been a nurse, [for the first time] I lost it. And I pardoned myself and excused myself and I ran to the bathroom and I cried and prayed.

 

[Czernobog]

And that proves that only conservatives are willing to do that? I know many liberals that adopt, too, and are willing to help the poor besides supporting programs that do that.

Geez, now you've listed two people who have adopted and are conservatives....I guess in your mind that settles it, only conservatives adopt. Bwahahaha.

Maybe because you aren't looking in the right places? Many of the so called fundamentalists that push archaic ideas and call themselves Republicans have taken Christianity to a new level....one they've created themselves, just like the Pharisees in Jesus' time. There are many true Christians that don't agree with the archaic rules Republicans are trying to push....and that doesn't make them any less Christian.

And, my point was that it wasn't just "conservatives" that were doing the adopting. Maybe if you had followed the whole conversation instead of just jumping in and offering your sophomoric responses (as if I had said that conservatives "never" adopt) you would have understood that.

Which, if you had read my previous comments you would have understood that I was trying to point that out. Instead, you named a few conservatives that have adopted. Logic is not your strong suit.

Liberals don't care about the poor. If you did to the level you claim, the rest of us wouldn't be forced to fund programs you support. You'd simply provide them what you think they deserve with your money. You do know you can do that without government involvement, don't you?

You seem to be confused. It is not a lack of concern for the poor. It is an equal concern that everyone in this nation who is able do their fair share.

Us liberals pay our taxes without complaint. Those taxes are used for things with which we agree, ideologically, as well as for things with which we do not. Still, we pay our fair share without complaint.

It is only you fake conservatives who constantly bitch, and whine like little children about having to pay your fair share, and have it used for things you don't like.

We, suck it up, buttercup. Pay your fucking taxes, and quit bitching.

Sent from my 5054N using Tapatalk

Yet you cry babies keep shedding tears that this guy or that guy isn't paying their fair share, which is it child? Are the people following the law paying their fair share or not?

No one is suggesting that you are not paying. Although, "fair share' would be a topic for an entirely different discussion. it's the whining like little school girls about "Oh! We don't want to pay for that!!!" to which we are referring. "Wah! Wah! my taxes are being used to feed poor people! Wah. Wah!"

How about you all shut the fuck up, pay your taxes, and quit bitching, like us ebul, heartless libruls?

Sure, just as soon as you folks reduce spending to only those areas provided for in the Constitution. Deal?

Like we have said, the only one's whining about how their taxes are spent are you fake conservatives. so, you don't get to use the "Why don't you pay for them" argument. Because we are paying for them. And we are doing so without being whiny little bitches about it.

By the way, only provided in the Constitution would also defund Homeland Security, the FBI, the Secret Service, and the CIA, among others. I guess you don't think the government should be able to protect itself from enemies foreign, and domestic, huh? Hell of a patriot you are...

Thank you for playing. Have a nice day. Do feel free to pick up your parting gifts on the way out.

 

[Czernobog]

Testimony of Brenda Pratt Shafer, RN - eye witness to partial birth abortions

I could see the baby. I could see the heartbeat. And the doctor wanted me to stand right beside him, because he wanted me to see everything there was about partial-birth abortion. So I stood there. He went in, guided by ultrasound. He took a pair of forceps and went in and turned the baby because it wasn't in this position at the time. He found a foot and he pulled the baby's foot down through the birth canal, bringing it down and grabbed another foot, and literally started pulling the baby out, breech position, feet first. And he kept pulling it down, and I'm seeing this baby come pulled out of the mommy, his butt, his chest, and then, he delivered both these arms. And the lady's in stirrups, just like you have a baby or just like you're having an ob/gyn examination. And the baby, the only thing that was supporting the baby was the doctor was holding it in with his two fingers, holding the neck so the head was just inside the mommy.

And the baby was kicking his feet, hanging there, moving his little fingers and his little arms. I couldn't believe -- I don't know what I thought killed it in three days, but he was moving and I kept watching that baby move. And I kept thinking to myself, this isn't happening and I thought I was going to pass out. And I kept telling myself, I'm a professional, I can handle this, you know, this is right, this is supposed to be, and I supposed to handle this, I'm a nurse. He then took a pair of scissors and jammed them into the back of the baby's head. And the baby jerked out, like a startle reflex, like a baby does if you throw him up a little bit and he jumps. And then the baby was real rigid. The doctor then opened up the scissors to make a hole. He took a high powered suction machine with a catheter and stuck it in that hole and suctioned the baby's brains out. And the baby went completely limp.

And I have seen that in my mind a thousand or more times, of that baby, watching the life just drain out of it. And like I said before, I've seen babies die in my hands, I had people die in my hands. But it wasn't anything like seeing that vision of watching this abortion. And I almost threw up all over the floor. I was literally just breathing and saying, "Don't throw up, don't throw up, you're gonna be embarrassed if you do this." So I tried not to.He pulled the head out, he cut the umbilical cord and threw it in a pan, and delivered the placenta and threw it in the same pan, he covered it up and took it out.

Well, this mommy wanted to see her baby. And the doctor told us ahead of time, he said, "Try to discourage her from seeing the baby." He doesn't like that. But she had the right to see it. So they cleaned it up and we cleaned her up, and we walked her out of the operating room, and took her to a room and handed her the baby.

The mother held her dead baby in her arms...

...She held that baby in her arms and she screamed and prayed to God...to forgive her, and for that baby to forgive her, and she held it and rocked it, and told him that she loved him. And I looked in that baby's face, and he had the most angelic perfect face I've ever seen, and I just kept thinking, he's an angel now, he's in heaven. And I couldn't take it. In all the years I've been a nurse, [for the first time] I lost it. And I pardoned myself and excused myself and I ran to the bathroom and I cried and prayed.

Oh! I agree with you completely. Which is why I fully support restricting late-term/partial birth abortions to health concerns. So, we're on the same page then? Late Term elective abortions are a "no-no", while what a pregnant woman does with a non-viable fetus is entirely her own business. See? If we can work together we can all find some common sense common ground.

 

[Czernobog]

And that proves that only conservatives are willing to do that? I know many liberals that adopt, too, and are willing to help the poor besides supporting programs that do that.

Geez, now you've listed two people who have adopted and are conservatives....I guess in your mind that settles it, only conservatives adopt. Bwahahaha.

Maybe because you aren't looking in the right places? Many of the so called fundamentalists that push archaic ideas and call themselves Republicans have taken Christianity to a new level....one they've created themselves, just like the Pharisees in Jesus' time. There are many true Christians that don't agree with the archaic rules Republicans are trying to push....and that doesn't make them any less Christian.

And, my point was that it wasn't just "conservatives" that were doing the adopting. Maybe if you had followed the whole conversation instead of just jumping in and offering your sophomoric responses (as if I had said that conservatives "never" adopt) you would have understood that.

Which, if you had read my previous comments you would have understood that I was trying to point that out. Instead, you named a few conservatives that have adopted. Logic is not your strong suit.

Liberals don't care about the poor. If you did to the level you claim, the rest of us wouldn't be forced to fund programs you support. You'd simply provide them what you think they deserve with your money. You do know you can do that without government involvement, don't you?

You seem to be confused. It is not a lack of concern for the poor. It is an equal concern that everyone in this nation who is able do their fair share.

Us liberals pay our taxes without complaint. Those taxes are used for things with which we agree, ideologically, as well as for things with which we do not. Still, we pay our fair share without complaint.

It is only you fake conservatives who constantly bitch, and whine like little children about having to pay your fair share, and have it used for things you don't like.

We, suck it up, buttercup. Pay your fucking taxes, and quit bitching.

Sent from my 5054N using Tapatalk

Yet you cry babies keep shedding tears that this guy or that guy isn't paying their fair share, which is it child? Are the people following the law paying their fair share or not?

No one is suggesting that you are not paying. Although, "fair share' would be a topic for an entirely different discussion. it's the whining like little school girls about "Oh! We don't want to pay for that!!!" to which we are referring. "Wah! Wah! my taxes are being used to feed poor people! Wah. Wah!"

How about you all shut the fuck up, pay your taxes, and quit bitching, like us ebul, heartless libruls?

BTW you didn't answer my question.

That's because your question is irrelevant, and implies an accusation that was never made. No one claimed anyone wasn't paying their fair share. We claimed that you fake conservatives were incapable of paying your fair share without whining like little bitches about it.

Why would I respond to a question that had no basis for being asked?

 

[Boss]

Pro-choice is precisely the right word, because, regardless of my personal opinion of abortion, I wholeheartedly believe that the decision to have an abortion, or not, should rest squarely, and only with the person whose life that will affect - the pregnant woman.

What about the unborn fetus? Seems an abortion procedure might effect their life. Since we can't really ascertain their opinion, we have to err on the side of nature and assume they want to live like most living organisms.

Since you deleted the part that speaks directly to your question, I can only assume that you read my post in its entirety. Why don't you go back, and reread the part that you deleted, and I think you may find the answer to your question, even though you clearly won't like it, based on your choosing to delete it, and pretending that I hadn't already anticipated your rather sophomoric question, and had already answered it.

I didn't "delete" anything, asswipe. I quoted the portion of your post that I addressed with a question. Instead of answering me, you want to pretend I didn't follow some kind of protocol. That seems to be par for the course in this thread with you.

All that is posted before the part I quoted is some silly nonsense about how you don't feel you have the right to impose your personal moral views on someone else... but we do that all the time... it's called LAWS.

 

[Czernobog]

Pro-choice is precisely the right word, because, regardless of my personal opinion of abortion, I wholeheartedly believe that the decision to have an abortion, or not, should rest squarely, and only with the person whose life that will affect - the pregnant woman.

What about the unborn fetus? Seems an abortion procedure might effect their life. Since we can't really ascertain their opinion, we have to err on the side of nature and assume they want to live like most living organisms.

Since you deleted the part that speaks directly to your question, I can only assume that you read my post in its entirety. Why don't you go back, and reread the part that you deleted, and I think you may find the answer to your question, even though you clearly won't like it, based on your choosing to delete it, and pretending that I hadn't already anticipated your rather sophomoric question, and had already answered it.

I didn't "delete" anything, asswipe. I quoted the portion of your post that I addressed with a question. Instead of answering me, you want to pretend I didn't follow some kind of protocol. That seems to be par for the course in this thread with you.

All that is posted before the part I quoted is some silly nonsense about how you don't feel you have the right to impose your personal moral views on someone else... but we do that all the time... it's called LAWS.

Lemme help you out by reposting the part of my post that you absolutely did delete, that answered your question:

I know...I know...you, and several others are going to leap in saying that it affects "the baby's life". Except there is no baby; there is only a fetus, which is, at best, a potential person. You'll forgive me if I am more concerned with the freedom of choice of an actual person than I am of a potential person.

I don't disagree that we do do this all the time - drug criminalization, prostitution, gambling. The list goes on, and on, where we try to impose our moral opinions on every citizen. Almost invariably, rather than eliminating the behaviour we consider "bad", all we accomplish is crimalizing the individual's right to self-determination. I have a problem with codifying moral opinion at the expense of individual liberty. It surprises, and saddens me that you fake conservatives don't.

 

[Boss]

Testimony of Brenda Pratt Shafer, RN - eye witness to partial birth abortions

I could see the baby. I could see the heartbeat. And the doctor wanted me to stand right beside him, because he wanted me to see everything there was about partial-birth abortion. So I stood there. He went in, guided by ultrasound. He took a pair of forceps and went in and turned the baby because it wasn't in this position at the time. He found a foot and he pulled the baby's foot down through the birth canal, bringing it down and grabbed another foot, and literally started pulling the baby out, breech position, feet first. And he kept pulling it down, and I'm seeing this baby come pulled out of the mommy, his butt, his chest, and then, he delivered both these arms. And the lady's in stirrups, just like you have a baby or just like you're having an ob/gyn examination. And the baby, the only thing that was supporting the baby was the doctor was holding it in with his two fingers, holding the neck so the head was just inside the mommy.

And the baby was kicking his feet, hanging there, moving his little fingers and his little arms. I couldn't believe -- I don't know what I thought killed it in three days, but he was moving and I kept watching that baby move. And I kept thinking to myself, this isn't happening and I thought I was going to pass out. And I kept telling myself, I'm a professional, I can handle this, you know, this is right, this is supposed to be, and I supposed to handle this, I'm a nurse. He then took a pair of scissors and jammed them into the back of the baby's head. And the baby jerked out, like a startle reflex, like a baby does if you throw him up a little bit and he jumps. And then the baby was real rigid. The doctor then opened up the scissors to make a hole. He took a high powered suction machine with a catheter and stuck it in that hole and suctioned the baby's brains out. And the baby went completely limp.

And I have seen that in my mind a thousand or more times, of that baby, watching the life just drain out of it. And like I said before, I've seen babies die in my hands, I had people die in my hands. But it wasn't anything like seeing that vision of watching this abortion. And I almost threw up all over the floor. I was literally just breathing and saying, "Don't throw up, don't throw up, you're gonna be embarrassed if you do this." So I tried not to.He pulled the head out, he cut the umbilical cord and threw it in a pan, and delivered the placenta and threw it in the same pan, he covered it up and took it out.

Well, this mommy wanted to see her baby. And the doctor told us ahead of time, he said, "Try to discourage her from seeing the baby." He doesn't like that. But she had the right to see it. So they cleaned it up and we cleaned her up, and we walked her out of the operating room, and took her to a room and handed her the baby.

The mother held her dead baby in her arms...

...She held that baby in her arms and she screamed and prayed to God...to forgive her, and for that baby to forgive her, and she held it and rocked it, and told him that she loved him. And I looked in that baby's face, and he had the most angelic perfect face I've ever seen, and I just kept thinking, he's an angel now, he's in heaven. And I couldn't take it. In all the years I've been a nurse, [for the first time] I lost it. And I pardoned myself and excused myself and I ran to the bathroom and I cried and prayed.

Oh! I agree with you completely. Which is why I fully support restricting late-term/partial birth abortions to health concerns. So, we're on the same page then? Late Term elective abortions are a "no-no", while what a pregnant woman does with a non-viable fetus is entirely her own business. See? If we can work together we can all find some common sense common ground.

We're only going to get on the same page whenever you admit that a embryo and fetus are human beings. As long as you want to ignore that fact of biology, we will not be on the same page. A "non-viable" fetus doesn't require an abortion. Only a viable fetus needs to be aborted.

There should never be abortion beyond the first trimester with the rare exception of a medical emergency where the woman's life is at risk. If a woman cannot handle this within the first trimester she has no business considering that option. Beyond that, any abortion in the first trimester should be administered after counseling and diligent consideration. The parameters of this should be set by state government and not federal and no federal funding should ever be allowed for abortions.