A question for the anti-choice crowd.

[Chuz Life]

Are you a proponent for letting women choose what to do with their own bodies?

Yes, or no?

YES!

Now, do you think there should be legal consequences for the CHOICES that people make when they CHOOSE to violate the rights of a CHILD?

Yes or no?

YES!

A fetus is not a chjild, no matter how many ways you want to insist that it is.

So the dictionaries, fetal homicide laws and other definitions that say the word "child" can and does include a "human fetus" are what? WRONG?

Yes or No?

Also, I'll ask you again: "Are you a proponent for keeping elective abortions legal?" Yes or No?

Apparently you do, since you just agreed that a woman has the right to do what she will with her own body.

I fully support anyone's right to make choices. Just as much as YOU do.

Try as you may to skew it. . . the point where we differ is not about whether or not people have the right to make choices. It's about whether or not we have the right to violate the rights of OTHERS with the choices we are free to make.

To maintain YOUR views, you have to reject the current legal and other definitions which do in fact recognize a child in the womb AS a "child" and as "a human being."

It seems that DENIAL is your drug of CHOICE.

[/QUOTE]
Bump.

 

[Boss]

Except that's not how vouchers work. The government doesn't give you one cent. That's why it's a voucher, not a tax refund. All you get is a piece of paper to give to your "school of choice", letting them know that, when they remit, the government will pay whatever percentage of their tuition the voucher is good for. In other words, the government doesn't pay you, they pay the school, just as if it were a public school getting federal funds.

Sorry, vouchers for religious schools is using the government to fund religious institutions - a direct violation of the first amendment.

Vouchers are used so the money can only be spent on a specific thing. And the government isn't paying anyone anything... it's my money. It's not the government funding a religious institution. It is me using my money to pay a religious institution for their services. You're just flat wrong as usual.

Either you don't understand how the voucher system works, or you are flat out lying about your understanding. I don't know which.

Who provides the vouchers?

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Where does the money come from?

 

[Boss]

Either you don't understand how the voucher system works, or you are flat out lying about your understanding. I don't know which.

I completely understand how vouchers work. You apparently don't understand how the world works.

 

[Czernobog]

Except that's not how vouchers work. The government doesn't give you one cent. That's why it's a voucher, not a tax refund. All you get is a piece of paper to give to your "school of choice", letting them know that, when they remit, the government will pay whatever percentage of their tuition the voucher is good for. In other words, the government doesn't pay you, they pay the school, just as if it were a public school getting federal funds.

Sorry, vouchers for religious schools is using the government to fund religious institutions - a direct violation of the first amendment.

Vouchers are used so the money can only be spent on a specific thing. And the government isn't paying anyone anything... it's my money. It's not the government funding a religious institution. It is me using my money to pay a religious institution for their services. You're just flat wrong as usual.

Either you don't understand how the voucher system works, or you are flat out lying about your understanding. I don't know which.

Who provides the vouchers?

Sent from my 5054N using Tapatalk

Where does the money come from?

The education budget. Which is a government department.

 

[Czernobog]

Either you don't understand how the voucher system works, or you are flat out lying about your understanding. I don't know which.

I completely understand how vouchers work. You apparently don't understand how the world works.

Of course I do. You want to contend that because the budget is funded by taxes, that it is still "your money". Except it's not. It stopped being your money, when you paid it to the government. Kinda like when you buy a stereo, then the company you bought it from, uses its assets to buy its employees insurance. Since you provided some of the money for that insurance, through your purchase, is it you buying the insurance? No. Because that money wasn't yours anymore.

 

[Boss]

Except that's not how vouchers work. The government doesn't give you one cent. That's why it's a voucher, not a tax refund. All you get is a piece of paper to give to your "school of choice", letting them know that, when they remit, the government will pay whatever percentage of their tuition the voucher is good for. In other words, the government doesn't pay you, they pay the school, just as if it were a public school getting federal funds.

Sorry, vouchers for religious schools is using the government to fund religious institutions - a direct violation of the first amendment.

Vouchers are used so the money can only be spent on a specific thing. And the government isn't paying anyone anything... it's my money. It's not the government funding a religious institution. It is me using my money to pay a religious institution for their services. You're just flat wrong as usual.

Either you don't understand how the voucher system works, or you are flat out lying about your understanding. I don't know which.

Who provides the vouchers?

Sent from my 5054N using Tapatalk

Where does the money come from?

The education budget. Which is a government department.

Where does their money come from?

 

[Boss]

Of course I do. You want to contend that because the budget is funded by taxes, that it is still "your money". Except it's not. It stopped being your money, when you paid it to the government. Kinda like when you buy a stereo, then the company you bought it from, uses its assets to buy its employees insurance. Since you provided some of the money for that insurance, through your purchase, is it you buying the insurance? No. Because that money wasn't yours anymore.

So... it stops being my money when I pay it to the government but when the government pays it back to me in the form of a voucher, it's still the government's money?

You're not making any rational sense.

 

[Czernobog]

Of course I do. You want to contend that because the budget is funded by taxes, that it is still "your money". Except it's not. It stopped being your money, when you paid it to the government. Kinda like when you buy a stereo, then the company you bought it from, uses its assets to buy its employees insurance. Since you provided some of the money for that insurance, through your purchase, is it you buying the insurance? No. Because that money wasn't yours anymore.

So... it stops being my money when I pay it to the government but when the government pays it back to me in the form of a voucher, it's still the government's money?

You're not making any rational sense.

They don't pay it to you. A voucher isn't money. It is a promise to pay, given, not to you, but to the education institution you hand the voucher to. Can you use that voucher for anything you want? No. Because it is not a blank check. It is not money. It is a government subsidy of education. The money stopped being yours when you gave it to the government. The government chooses to use some of their money to subsidize private education. But it is still their money. Which means they have the right, and authority to put any restrictions on those subsidies that they want - including insisting that their money not be used to fund religious institutions, like the First Amendment prohibits.

 

[Czernobog]

Except that's not how vouchers work. The government doesn't give you one cent. That's why it's a voucher, not a tax refund. All you get is a piece of paper to give to your "school of choice", letting them know that, when they remit, the government will pay whatever percentage of their tuition the voucher is good for. In other words, the government doesn't pay you, they pay the school, just as if it were a public school getting federal funds.

Sorry, vouchers for religious schools is using the government to fund religious institutions - a direct violation of the first amendment.

Vouchers are used so the money can only be spent on a specific thing. And the government isn't paying anyone anything... it's my money. It's not the government funding a religious institution. It is me using my money to pay a religious institution for their services. You're just flat wrong as usual.

Either you don't understand how the voucher system works, or you are flat out lying about your understanding. I don't know which.

Who provides the vouchers?

Sent from my 5054N using Tapatalk

Where does the money come from?

The education budget. Which is a government department.

Where does their money come from?

Me. The money is mine. I pay taxes just as much as you do, so, by your logic I have just as much claim to that money as you do.

 

[Boss]

Kinda like when you buy a stereo...

No, it's nothing at all like when you buy a stereo.

It's kind of like, if you work and turn your paycheck over to me and I give you a little back to buy food but tell you that you can only buy pizza because that's the only food I like.... It's called "authoritarian tyranny." --No thanks!

 

[Czernobog]

Kinda like when you buy a stereo...

No, it's nothing at all like when you buy a stereo.

It's kind of like, if you work and turn your paycheck over to me and I give you a little back to buy food but tell you that you can only buy pizza because that's the only food I like.... It's called "authoritarian tyranny." --No thanks!

No, it's not. It's like you work, and hand over your paycheck to me, and I promise to pay the grocery store for your groceries. You never get to see that money again - the grocery store does. And when I tell you I will not pay for beer, I am perfectly within my rights. That money stopped being yours when you handed it over to me.

 

[Boss]

They don't pay it to you. A voucher isn't money. It is a promise to pay, given, not to you, but to the education institution you hand the voucher to. Can you use that voucher for anything you want? No. Because it is not a blank check. It is not money. It is a government subsidy of education. The money stopped being yours when you gave it to the government. The government chooses to use some of their money to subsidize private education. But it is still their money. Which means they have the right, and authority to put any restrictions on those subsidies that they want - including insisting that their money not be used to fund religious institutions, like the First Amendment prohibits.

I understand what a voucher is, dipshit.

The money is not going to fund religious institutions. It's paying for a service rendered. It's still my money and my education it's paying for... has nothing to do with the government funding anything. It doesn't violate the First, that's your boneheaded and stupid opinion. Go stick your head in the oven.

 

[Boss]

That money stopped being yours when you handed it over to me.

Then I should KEEP my money and tell you to go fuck a duck.

 

[Slade3200]

Great post OP. Did you ever get a good answer? You articulated the great hypocrisy of the pro-lifers that scream murder. I read the first 10 pages and saw a lot of dodging and weaving then skipped here to the end.

 

[Czernobog]

That money stopped being yours when you handed it over to me.

Then I should KEEP my money and tell you to go fuck a duck.

You do that. Tell the government to "Go fuck a duck, I ain't paying no stinkin taxes!"

Lemme know how that works out for ya.

Sent from my 5054N using Tapatalk

 

[Czernobog]

Great post OP. Did you ever get a good answer? You articulated the great hypocrisy of the pro-lifers that scream murder. I read the first 10 pages and saw a lot of dodging and weaving then skipped here to the end.

Actually, a surprising number said the woman should suffer the same punishment as the doctor.

Now, when it came to when they would start expecting their chosen political candidates to begin to espouse that opinion, in the real world? Well...that's when the real dodging came.

Sent from my 5054N using Tapatalk

 

[Czernobog]

They don't pay it to you. A voucher isn't money. It is a promise to pay, given, not to you, but to the education institution you hand the voucher to. Can you use that voucher for anything you want? No. Because it is not a blank check. It is not money. It is a government subsidy of education. The money stopped being yours when you gave it to the government. The government chooses to use some of their money to subsidize private education. But it is still their money. Which means they have the right, and authority to put any restrictions on those subsidies that they want - including insisting that their money not be used to fund religious institutions, like the First Amendment prohibits.

I understand what a voucher is, dipshit.

The money is not going to fund religious institutions. It's paying for a service rendered. It's still my money and my education it's paying for... has nothing to do with the government funding anything. It doesn't violate the First, that's your boneheaded and stupid opinion. Go stick your head in the oven.

Yeah I notice when I answered your question about where the money came from, you kinda skipped over that, as it rather destroyed your sophomoric argument.

Sent from my 5054N using Tapatalk

 

[Uncensored2008]

[
No, it's not. It's like you work, and hand over your paycheck to me, and I promise to pay the grocery store for your groceries. You never get to see that money again - the grocery store does. And when I tell you I will not pay for beer, I am perfectly within my rights. That money stopped being yours when you handed it over to me.

I thought you ran away crying after I kicked your ass yesterday?

 

[Boss]

You do that. Tell the government to "Go fuck a duck, I ain't paying no stinkin taxes!"

Lemme know how that works out for ya.

But that's the government and the government is the people... not YOU. See... when I give the government my money, it's still my money because I am the government.

Not everyone who has a child in school pays taxes, so myself and others have decided to contribute so that those children can be educated too. Cash can be used for anything, so in order to ensure the money is used to educate the children, it is given in the form of a voucher. So it shouldn't matter what KIND of school as long as it meets the educational standards we've all agreed upon. That should be left to the individual.

And before you say it, I don't have any problem with a Muslim using their voucher to send their kid to a Muslim school, as long as the Muslim school is accredited and meets academic standards. It's their business, not mine.

 

[Boss]

Yeah I notice when I answered your question about where the money came from...

You didn't answer my question. You said it comes from "the education budget" but I asked you where they get their money from? You see... the money comes from the taxpayer, not the government. So it's the taxpayer's money, not the government's. You also erroneously claimed the money is funding something... it's not, it's paying for something. There is a service provided of which the provider is paid for. That's different than funding something.