A question for those that support Obamacare?

[oreo]

While some of you liberals are just fine with Obamacare--did you ever consider this.

Let's go with computers. Let's say you as an individual have your preference to what type of computer you use--processor--speed, etc. Let's say there are millions of people that really don't want a computer--but you like your's and really don't want a new one--and or don't really have the money to buy a new one.

So Obama and democrats decide to write another bill and pass it.

1. MANDATES that everyone in the United States needs to go out and buy a computer. They say that those that already have computers can keep them if they like. There will be no change with people who already have computers--you can keep them--and your liked hardware and software if you choose.

2. A few years later--you find out that you can't keep your "liked" computer--because it doesn't meet the new computer mandates that Obama and democrats signed into law. Instead of your MAC or IBM--you are now required to purchase some off-brand you don't want. This new off brand doesn't meet your expectations as far as to what a good computer should be--and there are lots of new gear on it that you don't want nor need, yet you are required to get it--otherwise you're under the threat of the IRS penalizing you if you don't.

This is exactly what Obamacare is. Everyone, regardless of age, regardless if you have had your kids and want no more, regardless if your married or single, regardless if your male or female are required to be covered--and pay for (pre-natal-maternity-drug and alcohol abuse.) There are no exceptions and there are no choices in coverage. The only choices you have are the price of the policy and how much of a deductible and co-pay you want.

So honestly what would you do, if we were talking computers here, instead of health care?

 

[Grandma]

I voted "this is a stupid poll."

"Obamacare" is not in itself an insurance policy. Health insurance policies vary by states. In my state we can keep the (very nice) policy that we've had all along.

Given a choice I'd rather see universal health care.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

The OP demonstrates the fact that the right is completely clueless as to the issues concerning the ACA.

And confirms the fact that conservative opposition to the ACA is purely partisan, having nothing to do with the merits of the Act whatsoever.

 

[emilynghiem]

The OP demonstrates the fact that the right is completely clueless as to the issues concerning the ACA.

And confirms the fact that conservative opposition to the ACA is purely partisan, having nothing to do with the merits of the Act whatsoever.

yes and no.

the purest arguments ive seen are constitutional

1. it is not for federal govt to regulate or mandate health care, especially
compelling business terms between private individuals and companies

but if ppl consent to authorize govt to set up such a system
this still requires a constitutional amendment

ppl who believe in govt interest to push health care
skip this step and just assume it can be derived from the constitution
so this is equally an imposition of political belief not shared by all,
much less voted on to amend the rules first

when this stretch of govt duty wouldnt get past the court, then ACA was changed to a tax
which also doesnt follow constitutional procedure; and when the law needed tweaking
the President changed it arbitrarily without going thru CONGRESS
again outside CONSTITUTIONAL PROCESS

all that is unconstitutional

2. if it is a tax, it must represent the peoples consent

but since it includes terms in the contract that ppl oppose due to
constitutional or religious beliefs
it violates either first fourteenth or tenth amendments
and some argue fifth and thirteenth amendments

there must be due process before depriving ppl of liberty
or ppl must be convicted of a crime if they are punished
with a fine or forced to pay with their labor

wanting free choice to pay for health care is not a crime
so why are ppl being penalized or compelled to give up liberty

3. if ppl dont agree on, respect or include constitutional beliefs as valid objections,
thats also a violation of first and fourteenth amendment protections

it seems the main reason this hasnt been addressed or corrected
is that no ones constitutional authority has been respected.

everyone who has objected has been dismissed due to
lack of respect or credibility in that person.

the arguments are sound and exist on their own merits.

but by the nature of proponents not respecting constitutional
laws to begin with, they dont recognize constitutional violations
as valid, so by their own political bias, they deny these objections as unfounded!

some ppl think it is willful ignorance and intellectual dishonesty, and that is why ppl are blaming party agenda.

i dont think this blind rejection is intentional, but ppl really do believe they are right and the opposition is wrong.
i think it exposes the real issue is between political beliefs that are equally valid in their own context
but by their nature do not believe the opposing political stance is real or valid. the exclusion is mutual.

it is strange to see ppl i trusted to be objective,
especially those who oppose religious fundamentalists
and rightwing for pushing their way as the "only way" and the law "for everyone."

but now they are doing the same thing from the left
and cannot see past their biases to recognize
they are playing the role of blindsided fundamentalists now.

their roles are in reverse

can we call a truce yet. do we get the point of the game
or do we need to keep playing this out any further?

the shoe is on the other foot
the pot is calling the kettle back
don't we get it already!!! ok ok enough

 

[Mojo2]

I voted "this is a stupid poll."

"Obamacare" is not in itself an insurance policy. Health insurance policies vary by states. In my state we can keep the (very nice) policy that we've had all along.

Given a choice I'd rather see universal health care.

At the cost of your freedom?

I think not.

But then again, neither do you.

 

[Mojo2]

The OP demonstrates the fact that the right is completely clueless as to the issues concerning the ACA.

And confirms the fact that conservative opposition to the ACA is purely partisan, having nothing to do with the merits of the Act whatsoever.

God dammit man. How many times are you going to repeat this bullshit after being shown the truth???

Show your colors:

Are you an idiot?

Are you hell bent on helping to enslave America?

Both.

 

[dblack]

I voted "this is a stupid poll."

Yet it accurately reflects what ACA imposes on us.

Given a choice I'd rather see universal health care.

Given a choice, I'd rather have Zooey Deschanel. So what?

 

[chikenwing]

The OP demonstrates the fact that the right is completely clueless as to the issues concerning the ACA.

And confirms the fact that conservative opposition to the ACA is purely partisan, having nothing to do with the merits of the Act whatsoever.

So your just like the Dean-o matic,stuck on an endless loop of nonsense. The opposition has been clearly laid out time and time again,the only partisan aspect is the other party opposes it for rational and real world reasons.

The only partisan hack is yourself. You make hugely generalized statement like this

The OP demonstrates the fact that the right is completely clueless as to the issues concerning the ACA.

With nothing backing up your hip shot,I can picture you with your fingers in your ears.

 

[dblack]

The OP demonstrates the fact that the right is completely clueless as to the issues concerning the ACA.

And confirms the fact that conservative opposition to the ACA is purely partisan, having nothing to do with the merits of the Act whatsoever.

Heh... you keep saying that opposition is 'purely partisan', which is laffable. Status quo Republicans would rather keep quiet about ACA because they can't (convincingly) deny it was originally a Republican plan. They only reason they are fighting it is because of the obvious frustration of voters. The politics of ACA may be partisan, they always are, but the anger its provoked is all too real.

 

[rightwinger]

Access to healthcare is a universal right
Operating without a safety net is no longer an option

 

[dblack]

Access to healthcare is a universal right
Operating without a safety net is no longer an option

Health care isn't a right, it's service.

ACA isn't universal health care, and neither one is a safety net.

 

[Camp]

Access to healthcare is a universal right
Operating without a safety net is no longer an option

Health care isn't a right, it's service.

ACA isn't universal health care, and neither one is a safety net.

Depends on if you believe stuff in the Declaration of Independence refers to rights or not.
'Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness' seems pretty self explanatory'.

 

[dblack]

Access to healthcare is a universal right
Operating without a safety net is no longer an option

Health care isn't a right, it's service.

ACA isn't universal health care, and neither one is a safety net.

Depends on if you believe stuff in the Declaration of Independence refers to rights or not.
'Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness' seems pretty self explanatory'.

Agreed.

 

[rightwinger]

Access to healthcare is a universal right
Operating without a safety net is no longer an option

Health care isn't a right, it's service.

ACA isn't universal health care, and neither one is a safety net.

If done right, Obamacare would be universal healthcare

As is, it is the best available means to provide affordable coverage to the masses. However, it does little to contain costs and eventually we will migrate to universal healthcare

 

[rightwinger]

Access to healthcare is a universal right
Operating without a safety net is no longer an option

Health care isn't a right, it's service.

ACA isn't universal health care, and neither one is a safety net.

Depends on if you believe stuff in the Declaration of Independence refers to rights or not.
'Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness' seems pretty self explanatory'.

I think that if a society has the ability to save your life, it should do so. Healthcare should not be based on your ability to pay

 

[DriftingSand]

Health care isn't a right, it's service.

ACA isn't universal health care, and neither one is a safety net.

Depends on if you believe stuff in the Declaration of Independence refers to rights or not.
'Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness' seems pretty self explanatory'.

I think that if a society has the ability to save your life, it should do so. Healthcare should not be based on your ability to pay

Then why don't you send me all of your money. I know some folks who could use some help. I have a feeling you WON'T send me any money. Perhaps because you need it for your own needs. Just guessing.

 

[DriftingSand]

While some of you liberals are just fine with Obamacare--did you ever consider this.

Let's go with computers. Let's say you as an individual have your preference to what type of computer you use--processor--speed, etc. Let's say there are millions of people that really don't want a computer--but you like your's and really don't want a new one--and or don't really have the money to buy a new one.

So Obama and democrats decide to write another bill and pass it.

1. MANDATES that everyone in the United States needs to go out and buy a computer. They say that those that already have computers can keep them if they like. There will be no change with people who already have computers--you can keep them--and your liked hardware and software if you choose.

2. A few years later--you find out that you can't keep your "liked" computer--because it doesn't meet the new computer mandates that Obama and democrats signed into law. Instead of your MAC or IBM--you are now required to purchase some off-brand you don't want. This new off brand doesn't meet your expectations as far as to what a good computer should be--and there are lots of new gear on it that you don't want nor need, yet you are required to get it--otherwise you're under the threat of the IRS penalizing you if you don't.

This is exactly what Obamacare is. Everyone, regardless of age, regardless if you have had your kids and want no more, regardless if your married or single, regardless if your male or female are required to be covered--and pay for (pre-natal-maternity-drug and alcohol abuse.) There are no exceptions and there are no choices in coverage. The only choices you have are the price of the policy and how much of a deductible and co-pay you want.

So honestly what would you do, if we were talking computers here, instead of health care?

Choice 3: Keep the "liked" computer and DON'T pay a penalty.

 

[Ava]

I agree with this poster who posted a comment 12 hours ago, to a Yahoo article.

http://news.yahoo.com/obamacare-web...adline-enroll-coverage-122359229--sector.html

Commenter 2 hours ago

No amount of propaganda from the White House can change the fact that Obamacare is a disaster. It was supposed to enroll massive numbers of the uninsured yet only a very small proportion of them have enrolled.Most of those who did enroll have either had previously existing policies or had their policies canceled because those policies did not meet the new federal standards required by the Obamacare law.Surprise surprise most of those who did enroll are now facing higher deductibles and higher insurance premiums.

Obamacare was supposedly going to lower health care costs. It did not.It is estimated that only about 2 million of the original 40 million uninsured signed up. So now we have spent billions of taxpayer dollars to create a system that has had and will not have made any significant impact on the number of those who were supposed to have been helped.We also have major scandals involving individuals and corporations that were paid billlions to create federal and state web sites that did not work. Notice liberal blue state Maryland that spent 150 million on an enrollment web site that failed miserably.
Who got all those monies for doing nothing. Were they friends of the Obama administration who simply took advantage of the federal give away? Yes indeed. Are these governments going to prosecute in order to recover these funds from those who got rich at the government trough?The likes of liberal Maryland Governor O'Malley have no answer to those questions. The bottom line is that Obamacare was and is a dynamic failure yet this White House continues to call it a success by constantly repeating that they did succeed. It is an endless stream of lies that can be compared to the tactics of the Communists of the old Soviet Union. The people have been made victims of this new Orwellian government.

 

[rightwinger]

Depends on if you believe stuff in the Declaration of Independence refers to rights or not.
'Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness' seems pretty self explanatory'.

I think that if a society has the ability to save your life, it should do so. Healthcare should not be based on your ability to pay

Then why don't you send me all of your money. I know some folks who could use some help. I have a feeling you WON'T send me any money. Perhaps because you need it for your own needs. Just guessing.

Is that the best you could come up with?

Explain to the nice people how your "let em die" strategy works

 

[Camp]

I agree with this poster who posted a comment 12 hours ago, to a Yahoo article.

http://news.yahoo.com/obamacare-web...adline-enroll-coverage-122359229--sector.html

Commenter 2 hours ago

No amount of propaganda from the White House can change the fact that Obamacare is a disaster. It was supposed to enroll massive numbers of the uninsured yet only a very small proportion of them have enrolled.Most of those who did enroll have either had previously existing policies or had their policies canceled because those policies did not meet the new federal standards required by the Obamacare law.Surprise surprise most of those who did enroll are now facing higher deductibles and higher insurance premiums.

Obamacare was supposedly going to lower health care costs. It did not.It is estimated that only about 2 million of the original 40 million uninsured signed up. So now we have spent billions of taxpayer dollars to create a system that has had and will not have made any significant impact on the number of those who were supposed to have been helped.We also have major scandals involving individuals and corporations that were paid billlions to create federal and state web sites that did not work. Notice liberal blue state Maryland that spent 150 million on an enrollment web site that failed miserably.
Who got all those monies for doing nothing. Were they friends of the Obama administration who simply took advantage of the federal give away? Yes indeed. Are these governments going to prosecute in order to recover these funds from those who got rich at the government trough?The likes of liberal Maryland Governor O'Malley have no answer to those questions. The bottom line is that Obamacare was and is a dynamic failure yet this White House continues to call it a success by constantly repeating that they did succeed. It is an endless stream of lies that can be compared to the tactics of the Communists of the old Soviet Union. The people have been made victims of this new Orwellian government.

Total crap misinformation. The link provided has nothing to do with the above comment. No facts, no links, no reality. Just old debunked fraudulent talking points from extreme rw radio. Basicly, lots of lies rolled into a rant. Guidence for the stupid and easy to scam.