skye
Diamond Member
- Oct 19, 2012
- 62,619
- 62,279
- 3,635
Navigation
Install the app
How to install the app on iOS
Follow along with the video below to see how to install our site as a web app on your home screen.
Note: This feature may not be available in some browsers.
More options
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
A question to liberals who say Obama didn't create the ISIS
- Thread starter Wyatt earp
- Start date
ScienceRocks
Democrat all the way!
- Banned
- #22
Want evidence?
A brief history of ISIS
Where did they come from?
----
The group originated as Jama'at al-Tawhid wal-Jihad in 1999, which pledged allegiance to al-Qaeda and participated in the Iraqi insurgency following the March 2003 invasion of Iraq by Western forces. Joining other Sunni insurgent groups to form the Mujahideen Shura Council, this group proclaimed the formation of the Islamic State of Iraq (ISI) in October 2006. In August 2011, following the outbreak of the Syrian Civil War, ISI, under the leadership of al-Baghdadi, delegated a mission into Syria, which under the name Jabhat an-Nuṣrah li-Ahli ash-Shām (or al-Nusra Front) established a large presence in Sunni-majority Al-Raqqah, Idlib, Deir ez-Zor, and Aleppo provinces. The merger of ISI with al-Nusra Front to form the "Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant" (ISIL), as announced in April 2013 by al-Baghdadi, was however rejected by al-Nusra leader al-Julani, and by al-Qaeda leader al-Zawahiri who subsequently cut all ties with ISIL, in February 2014.[4][55][56][57]
If this isn't enough evidence...Well, I don't know what to say.
A brief history of ISIS
Where did they come from?
ISIS was born out of the U.S. invasion of Iraq in 2003. When U.S. administrators, under Paul Bremer, decided to "de-Baathify" the Iraqi civil and military services, hundreds of thousands of Sunnis formerly loyal to Saddam Hussein were left without a job — and they were mad. Al Qaeda chose to capitalize on their anger and established al Qaeda in Iraq (AQI) to wage an insurgency against U.S. troops in Iraq (Saddam was secular, but his intelligence and military supporters were able to make common cause with the jihadis of al Qaeda).
It is important to note that this tiff between the two groups was global and concerned some "practical" things (like if al Qaeda should rule territory or kill Sunnis), as well as ego matters (like if Osama Bin Laden's lieutenants, who have been on the run since 2001, should be the ones calling the shots). The intra-jihadi battle was waged on the battlefields of Syria, Iraq, Somalia, and northwest Africa, as well as in jihadi forums on the darknet.
----
The group originated as Jama'at al-Tawhid wal-Jihad in 1999, which pledged allegiance to al-Qaeda and participated in the Iraqi insurgency following the March 2003 invasion of Iraq by Western forces. Joining other Sunni insurgent groups to form the Mujahideen Shura Council, this group proclaimed the formation of the Islamic State of Iraq (ISI) in October 2006. In August 2011, following the outbreak of the Syrian Civil War, ISI, under the leadership of al-Baghdadi, delegated a mission into Syria, which under the name Jabhat an-Nuṣrah li-Ahli ash-Shām (or al-Nusra Front) established a large presence in Sunni-majority Al-Raqqah, Idlib, Deir ez-Zor, and Aleppo provinces. The merger of ISI with al-Nusra Front to form the "Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant" (ISIL), as announced in April 2013 by al-Baghdadi, was however rejected by al-Nusra leader al-Julani, and by al-Qaeda leader al-Zawahiri who subsequently cut all ties with ISIL, in February 2014.[4][55][56][57]
If this isn't enough evidence...Well, I don't know what to say.
ScienceRocks
Democrat all the way!
- Banned
- #23
So it is a lie that the isis was around before Obama came to office? I have never seen any evidence for what you're saying. I look at news and wikipedia and they tell me that you're the liar.
You have nothing.
I don't give a fuck what he said. HE didn't start the goddamn thing. Period.
He may have fucked up training people he shouldn't of but the two things aint the same.
- Jan 19, 2010
- 70,709
- 66,308
- 3,605
Matthews avatar cracks me up too...Obama destroyed NASA. We can't even get into space let alone visit our own space station without Putin....
- Jan 19, 2010
- 70,709
- 66,308
- 3,605
LIAR!!!!!! or just stupid take your pick~I don't give a fuck what he said. HE didn't start the goddamn thing. Period.
He may have fucked up training people he shouldn't of but the two things aint the same.
NYcarbineer
Diamond Member
The republicans? nearly the whole government ended up voting to start that stupid war in Iraq....including senator Hillary Clinton. Do some homework!Well, it's probably got something to do with the Republicans getting us into a quagmire by invading Iraq in 2003, on completely ficticious claims that Saddam was a threat to our national security.
By the way Trump was against the Iraq war....
Trump was not against the war. Most Democrats voted against the war.
- Jan 19, 2010
- 70,709
- 66,308
- 3,605
Post of the day! Thanks!!!!!!!
- Jan 19, 2010
- 70,709
- 66,308
- 3,605
Where are you people getting this crap? over 30% of dems voted for the Iraq war then when the public started to favor the war they wanted to take another vote hahahahaha Trump never supported the war so you are wrong on that point. Hillary voted for it and gave a speech supporting the war.Trump was not against the war. Most Democrats voted against the war
ScienceRocks
Democrat all the way!
- Banned
- #29
Matthews avatar cracks me up too...Obama destroyed NASA. We can't even get into space let alone visit our own space station without Putin....
Give it another year or so and spacex, which Obama invested big time in will do it.
ScienceRocks
Democrat all the way!
- Banned
- #30
LIAR!!!!!! or just stupid take your pick~I don't give a fuck what he said. HE didn't start the goddamn thing. Period.
He may have fucked up training people he shouldn't of but the two things aint the same.
So you think Obama was in the middle east putting it all together in the early 2000's? Please check yourself into a mental institution. You need help.
I feel sorry for you.
occupied
Diamond Member
- Nov 8, 2011
- 36,705
- 17,199
- 1,590
Every president has played "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" sometimes it works, sometimes they betray us. I think the practice is too risky in the middle east but it has been our foreign intervention policy going back to WWII. We should probably quit meddling in shit but the warhawks insist we get neck deep in every war that breaks out where there is oil.LIAR!!!!!! or just stupid take your pick~I don't give a fuck what he said. HE didn't start the goddamn thing. Period.
He may have fucked up training people he shouldn't of but the two things aint the same.
- Jan 19, 2010
- 70,709
- 66,308
- 3,605
No but at best he froze due to political concerns and allowed them to grow and expand. He caused the death of many good Iraqi people...women and children that in large part supported our invasion were slaughtered and he had his generals and his staff cover it all up by telling the American people that Isis was JV and on the run. I have no respect for you and your misconceptions and you are not a good American.So you think Obama was in the middle east putting it all together in the early 2000's? Please check yourself into a mental institution. You need help.
Timmy
Gold Member
- Oct 2, 2015
- 22,432
- 2,836
- 290
No but at best he froze due to political concerns and allowed them to grow and expand. He caused the death of many good Iraqi people...women and children that in large part supported our invasion were slaughtered and he had his generals and his staff cover it all up by telling the American people that Isis was JV and on the run. I have no respect for you and your misconceptions and you are not a good American.So you think Obama was in the middle east putting it all together in the early 2000's? Please check yourself into a mental institution. You need help.
Lol ! Like u give a shit about the Iraqi people?
If we stayed , you know what that means? More dead troops and another bazillion dollars wasted .
bullwinkle
Gold Member
- Mar 4, 2013
- 5,446
- 761
- 245
Rambumctious, if it is important I will try to find a clip of Trump complaining about the war back in around '07 I think. There is no reason for you to believe me without documentation, so I'll see what I can find instead of going by memory.You are just wrong I'm sorry....you have been lied to or something.Yep, Trump was against the war before he was for it, like now as he complains about troop withdrawal. Bush was smart when he set 2014 for troop withdrawal..long after he was gone. Anybody with an IQ over moron knew the inevitable struggle for power would begin the minute we left. That's been known since 2004-5. That's why we said get out 'now' back then before all the death
Ridgerunner
'Ole Wise One'
2012 Pentagon report warned Obama was creating ISIS
Predicted current policies would lead to Islamic state in Syria
Donald Trump’s declaration this week at a campaign rally that President Obama and Hillary Clinton “founded” ISIS drew outrage from establishment media, and the Republican nominee now insists he was being sarcastic, but a Defense Intelligence Agency document declassified last year shows the Obama administration was warned in 2012 that if it continued its policies, a radical Islamic regime could form in Eastern Syria.
Writing in Chronicles magazine, Jim Jatras, a former U.S. diplomat and foreign policy adviser to the Senate GOP leadership, cited a DIA report in August 2012 that was declassified and released last year under a Freedom of Information Act request from Judicial Watch
Hillary Clinton was secretary of state at the time under President Obama.
The report said “there is the possibility of establishing a declared or undeclared Salafist principality in Eastern Syria, and this is exactly what the supporting powers to the opposition want, in order to isolate the Syrian regime.”
The “supporting powers” are identified as “the West, Gulf countries, and Turkey.”
Jatras, as Robert Spencer’s Jihad Watch blog reported, summarized the report saying that if the U.S. and its proxies kept aiding al-Qaida, the Muslim Brotherhood and other “rebel” groups fighting the Syrian regime of President Bashar al-Assad, a jihadist state would arise in the country.
Several months later, ISIS declared itself a state straddling the Syria-Iraq border.
Report ‘made no difference’
Jatras pointed out that Lt. Gen. Michael Flynn, currently a Trump adviser, took over as head of DIA a month before the report was issued.
“Whether it was his personal effort to caution the administration or simply the professional analysts in the DIA apparatus laying out the facts as they saw them, the 2012 report made no difference,” Jatras writes.
In an interview last year with Mehdi Hasan of Al Jazeera, Flynn said the formation of an ISIS state wasn’t a matter of the administration turning a “blind eye.” It was a “willful decision.”
Hasan: You are basically saying that even in government at the time you knew these groups were around, you saw this analysis, and you were arguing against it, but who wasn’t listening?
Flynn: I think the administration.
Hasan: So the administration turned a blind eye to your analysis?
Flynn: I don’t know that they turned a blind eye, I think it was a decision. I think it was a willful decision.
Hasan: A willful decision to support an insurgency that had Salafists, Al Qaeda and the Muslim Brotherhood?
Flynn: It was a willful decision to do what they’re doing.
Islamic state a ‘strategic opportunity’
In May 2015, Nafeez Ahmed, an investigative journalist and international security scholar, reported the DIA document provided “no indication of any decision to reverse the policy of support to the Syrian rebels.”
“On the contrary, the emergence of an al-Qaeda affiliated ‘Salafist Principality’ as a result is described as a strategic opportunity to isolate Assad.”
Ahmed noted that at the time, media reports focused on the report’s evidence that the Obama administration knew of arms supplies from a Libyan terrorist stronghold to rebels in Syria.
He wrote that the DIA document “confirms that the main component of the anti-Assad rebel forces by this time comprised Islamist insurgents affiliated to groups that would lead to the emergence of ISIS.”
“Despite this, these groups were to continue receiving support from Western militaries and their regional allies,” he wrote.
Ahmed said the Pentagon document explicitly forecasted the declaration of “an Islamic State through its union with other terrorist organizations in Iraq and Syria.”
Nevertheless, “Western countries, the Gulf states and Turkey are supporting these efforts” by Syrian “opposition forces” fighting to “control the eastern areas (Hasaka and Der Zor), adjacent to Western Iraqi provinces (Mosul and Anbar).”
Ahmed said that in response to his questions about the strategy, the British government “simply denied the Pentagon report’s startling revelations of deliberate Western sponsorship of violent extremists in Syria.”
A British Foreign Office spokesman told him:
AQ (Al-Qaida) and ISIL (ISIS) are proscribed terrorist organisations. The UK opposes all forms of terrorism. AQ, ISIL, and their affiliates pose a direct threat to the UK’s national security. We are part of a military and political coalition to defeat ISIL in Iraq and Syria, and are working with international partners to counter the threat from AQ and other terrorist groups in that region. In Syria we have always supported those moderate opposition groups who oppose the tyranny of Assad and the brutality of the extremists.
The DIA, Ahmed said, did not respond to his request for comment
Read more at 2012 Pentagon report warned Obama was creating ISIS
Predicted current policies would lead to Islamic state in Syria
Donald Trump’s declaration this week at a campaign rally that President Obama and Hillary Clinton “founded” ISIS drew outrage from establishment media, and the Republican nominee now insists he was being sarcastic, but a Defense Intelligence Agency document declassified last year shows the Obama administration was warned in 2012 that if it continued its policies, a radical Islamic regime could form in Eastern Syria.
Writing in Chronicles magazine, Jim Jatras, a former U.S. diplomat and foreign policy adviser to the Senate GOP leadership, cited a DIA report in August 2012 that was declassified and released last year under a Freedom of Information Act request from Judicial Watch
Hillary Clinton was secretary of state at the time under President Obama.
The report said “there is the possibility of establishing a declared or undeclared Salafist principality in Eastern Syria, and this is exactly what the supporting powers to the opposition want, in order to isolate the Syrian regime.”
The “supporting powers” are identified as “the West, Gulf countries, and Turkey.”
Jatras, as Robert Spencer’s Jihad Watch blog reported, summarized the report saying that if the U.S. and its proxies kept aiding al-Qaida, the Muslim Brotherhood and other “rebel” groups fighting the Syrian regime of President Bashar al-Assad, a jihadist state would arise in the country.
Several months later, ISIS declared itself a state straddling the Syria-Iraq border.
Report ‘made no difference’
Jatras pointed out that Lt. Gen. Michael Flynn, currently a Trump adviser, took over as head of DIA a month before the report was issued.
“Whether it was his personal effort to caution the administration or simply the professional analysts in the DIA apparatus laying out the facts as they saw them, the 2012 report made no difference,” Jatras writes.
In an interview last year with Mehdi Hasan of Al Jazeera, Flynn said the formation of an ISIS state wasn’t a matter of the administration turning a “blind eye.” It was a “willful decision.”
Hasan: You are basically saying that even in government at the time you knew these groups were around, you saw this analysis, and you were arguing against it, but who wasn’t listening?
Flynn: I think the administration.
Hasan: So the administration turned a blind eye to your analysis?
Flynn: I don’t know that they turned a blind eye, I think it was a decision. I think it was a willful decision.
Hasan: A willful decision to support an insurgency that had Salafists, Al Qaeda and the Muslim Brotherhood?
Flynn: It was a willful decision to do what they’re doing.
Islamic state a ‘strategic opportunity’
In May 2015, Nafeez Ahmed, an investigative journalist and international security scholar, reported the DIA document provided “no indication of any decision to reverse the policy of support to the Syrian rebels.”
“On the contrary, the emergence of an al-Qaeda affiliated ‘Salafist Principality’ as a result is described as a strategic opportunity to isolate Assad.”
Ahmed noted that at the time, media reports focused on the report’s evidence that the Obama administration knew of arms supplies from a Libyan terrorist stronghold to rebels in Syria.
He wrote that the DIA document “confirms that the main component of the anti-Assad rebel forces by this time comprised Islamist insurgents affiliated to groups that would lead to the emergence of ISIS.”
“Despite this, these groups were to continue receiving support from Western militaries and their regional allies,” he wrote.
Ahmed said the Pentagon document explicitly forecasted the declaration of “an Islamic State through its union with other terrorist organizations in Iraq and Syria.”
Nevertheless, “Western countries, the Gulf states and Turkey are supporting these efforts” by Syrian “opposition forces” fighting to “control the eastern areas (Hasaka and Der Zor), adjacent to Western Iraqi provinces (Mosul and Anbar).”
Ahmed said that in response to his questions about the strategy, the British government “simply denied the Pentagon report’s startling revelations of deliberate Western sponsorship of violent extremists in Syria.”
A British Foreign Office spokesman told him:
AQ (Al-Qaida) and ISIL (ISIS) are proscribed terrorist organisations. The UK opposes all forms of terrorism. AQ, ISIL, and their affiliates pose a direct threat to the UK’s national security. We are part of a military and political coalition to defeat ISIL in Iraq and Syria, and are working with international partners to counter the threat from AQ and other terrorist groups in that region. In Syria we have always supported those moderate opposition groups who oppose the tyranny of Assad and the brutality of the extremists.
The DIA, Ahmed said, did not respond to his request for comment
Read more at 2012 Pentagon report warned Obama was creating ISIS
JoeB131
Diamond Member
You leave out a few points..we were the occupying force, the Iraq government was our puppets..
THAT'S THE FUCKING PROBLEM, YOU DUMBASS!!! The Iraqi government WEREN'T our puppets, but a lot of Iraqis SAW them as quislings and collaborators. They insisted on the right to prosecute Americans who killed Iraqis. We said, No, we don't trust your ability to give our guys a fair trial.
You'd be the first guy on here screaming if an American soldier ended up in an Iraqi prison for shooting a civilian. You'd be screaming about Islam and hostages and that sort of shit.
Here's the thing. Americans wanted out of Iraq. No one wanted to waste more blood and treasure validating George W. Stupid's fuckup. Heck, even Trump has made hay pretending he was against the Iraq war at the time, and you STILL nominated him.
But Obama was supposed to continue the war you guys don't even support at this point?
Really.
PUT DOWN THE FUCKING BOTTLE!!!
JoeB131
Diamond Member
BULLSHIT! the democrat led congress begged to take another vote so the likes of Hillary could have a chance to get on the "right" side. She and the dems did what they always do, lick their finger and see which way the wind blows...
You mean they wanted Bush to justify why he was going ahead with an invasion after the UN said, 'Hey, the inspections are working, let's give it more time."
The real problem. Bush saw Saddam escaping the net, and Saddam tried to kill his Pa, and he just wasn't going to have that.
Fuck you, 5000 Americans and half a million Iraqis. Bush was going to have his war.
And you miserable Republican fucks are nominating a guy who pretends he was against it at the time.
Wilbur Right
Silver Member
- Nov 27, 2015
- 2,710
- 363
- 90
LIAR!!!!!! or just stupid take your pick~
Describes you to a tee. Though actually I think you are both a liar and stupid. Great combo. Carry on. I know you think you have important lies and Bullshit to share.
tinydancer
Diamond Member
The republicans? nearly the whole government ended up voting to start that stupid war in Iraq....including senator Hillary Clinton. Do some homework!
By the way Trump was against the Iraq war....
Actually, Hillary and teh Democrats voted for Bush to only use war if diplomacy failed. Bush didn't try diplomacy...
Oh, yeah, and Trump wasn't against the Iraq war until it was cool to be against the Iraq war.
Bullshit that Bush didn't try diplomacy. Absolute bullshit.
rightwinger
Award Winning USMB Paid Messageboard Poster
- Aug 4, 2009
- 285,830
- 160,043
- 2,615
I thought only people who are being "sarcastic" believe thatI just remembered something on another thread..
So why do we still have troops in the year 2016 in Afghanistan?
Why did obama have to declare the war over in Iraq and pull out all troops in Iraq , which created a power vacuum and gave rise to the ISIS in 2014?
Inquring minds want to know...
Similar threads
- Replies
- 66
- Views
- 635
- Replies
- 23
- Views
- 378
- Replies
- 114
- Views
- 1K
- Replies
- 22
- Views
- 419
Latest Discussions
- Replies
- 1
- Views
- 20
- Replies
- 315
- Views
- 2K
- Replies
- 47
- Views
- 294
- Replies
- 5
- Views
- 58
- Replies
- 28
- Views
- 398
Forum List
-
-
-
-
-
Political Satire 8558
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
ObamaCare 781
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
Member Usernotes 485
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-