Abortions: Should Women be Allowed to Choose?

[koshergrl]

Look, yet another completely irrelevant lie, meant to distract from the reality that progressives want to kill more babies.

 

[JoeB131]

Look, yet another completely irrelevant lie, meant to distract from the reality that progressives want to kill more babies.

Thinking someone should have a right doesn't mean they want more of it.

For instance, I think you should have a right to worship whatever imaginary sky man you want to.

But I don't want to really see more of that nonsense. Less would be better.

 

[Clementine]

Women should choose their own birth control and they can choose to have an abortion. Then they can choose how they want to pay for their choices. Do as you wish, but stay the hell out of my pocket.

 

[hoosier88]

Ho hum.

"Scott Lee Peterson (born October 24, 1972) is an American convicted of murdering his wife, Laci Peterson, and their unborn son in Modesto, California in 2002."

Scott Peterson - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Baby never drew a breath. Scotty was convicted of murdering him.

Yep, the public in general is fairly sentimental about a woman being murdered, along with her unborn fetus. The legislatures of several states have passed enhancements to murder, to include the death of a fetus as a separate chargeable offense. This also serves the State's purpose - its interest in having new citizens born.

Despite the apparent contradiction, murder is defined by the courts. Roe v. Wade established when the State can regulate abortion & when it cannot. You want the definitions changed, & that means a long long political fight to get legislation pushed through a majority of the state legislatures, & then appeal a series of cases up to the SC, in hopes of overturning or modifying Roe v. Wade. I hope you have the stomach for decades of struggle, with no guarantee that you'll carry the day.

You're perfectly entitled to work towards what you consider just. Just bear in mind the Kingdom may not come about in the World within anyone's lifetime.

 

[rdean]

Should women be allowed to choose what they do with their bodies? Absolutely.

And they have plenty of options to choose from. Birth control pills, condoms, abstinence and natural sex.

Those are all choices.

Pregnancy isn't a choice; it's the outcome of a decision that had a choice.

And abortions aren't about a woman's body; they're about another body, very much alive, forming within the woman's body. So a woman's "right-to-choose" should be about what the woman does with her body; not the body of an infant she chose to have.

And if we can all agree that every human being is born with the inherent right to live, then abortions are clear violations of this right. As the baby is never consulted with when abortions are decided.

Republicans always want to "allow" someone. They want to "allow" minorities. They want to "allow" gays.

Well, I want to "allow" them to have a black president.

 

[LittleNipper]

Should women be allowed to choose what they do with their bodies? Absolutely.

And they have plenty of options to choose from. Birth control pills, condoms, abstinence and natural sex.

Those are all choices.

Pregnancy isn't a choice; it's the outcome of a decision that had a choice.

And abortions aren't about a woman's body; they're about another body, very much alive, forming within the woman's body. So a woman's "right-to-choose" should be about what the woman does with her body; not the body of an infant she chose to have.

And if we can all agree that every human being is born with the inherent right to live, then abortions are clear violations of this right. As the baby is never consulted with when abortions are decided.

Yes. If you think the women of this country are going back to illegal abortions....you are sadly mistaken.

Maybe women might choose to go back to getting married to gentlemen first and then have sex. That way women will not be stuck with the choice of making an additional bad decision.

 

[LittleNipper]

Should women be allowed to choose what they do with their bodies? Absolutely.

And they have plenty of options to choose from. Birth control pills, condoms, abstinence and natural sex.

Those are all choices.

Pregnancy isn't a choice; it's the outcome of a decision that had a choice.

And abortions aren't about a woman's body; they're about another body, very much alive, forming within the woman's body. So a woman's "right-to-choose" should be about what the woman does with her body; not the body of an infant she chose to have.

And if we can all agree that every human being is born with the inherent right to live, then abortions are clear violations of this right. As the baby is never consulted with when abortions are decided.

Republicans always want to "allow" someone. They want to "allow" minorities. They want to "allow" gays.

Well, I want to "allow" them to have a black president.

And I want a black president that isn't a spend thrift and a Socialistic Humanist.

 

[LittleNipper]

Foster care has absolutely zip to do with abortion.
...

^ there you have it folks.

___ the children who are here now and need loving parents. Ze have to protect ze zygotes!

There is always adoption.

 

[Noomi]

Should women be allowed to choose what they do with their bodies? Absolutely.

And they have plenty of options to choose from. Birth control pills, condoms, abstinence and natural sex.

Those are all choices.

Pregnancy isn't a choice; it's the outcome of a decision that had a choice.

And abortions aren't about a woman's body; they're about another body, very much alive, forming within the woman's body. So a woman's "right-to-choose" should be about what the woman does with her body; not the body of an infant she chose to have.

And if we can all agree that every human being is born with the inherent right to live, then abortions are clear violations of this right. As the baby is never consulted with when abortions are decided.

Yes. If you think the women of this country are going back to illegal abortions....you are sadly mistaken.

Maybe women might choose to go back to getting married to gentlemen first and then have sex. That way women will not be stuck with the choice of making an additional bad decision.

Married women have abortions, too.

 

[Noomi]

Foster care has absolutely zip to do with abortion.
...

^ there you have it folks.

___ the children who are here now and need loving parents. Ze have to protect ze zygotes!

There is always adoption.

I agree. If lifers are going to force women to give birth, it is only fair that we force the lifers to adopt the babies. Seeing they care about children and all.

 

[JustSomeGuy]

Facts and figures on deaths and injuries before and after Roe v. Wade.

Before and After Roe

Never mind the source, you do realize what "facts and figures" mean, correct? Your link contains none. For example, take this line:

Approximately 50% of all maternal deaths resulted from illegal abortion during the first half of the 20th century.

Really? Because, you know, that's not what the CDC says.

Maternal mortality rates were highest in this century during 1900-1930 (2). Poor obstetric education and delivery practices were mainly responsible for the high numbers of maternal deaths, most of which were preventable (2). Obstetrics as a speciality was shunned by many physicians, and obstetric care was provided by poorly trained or untrained medical practitioners. Most births occurred at home with the assistance of midwives or general practitioners. Inappropriate and excessive surgical and obstetric interventions (e.g., induction of labor, use of forceps, episiotomy, and cesarean deliveries) were common and increased during the 1920s. Deliveries, including some surgical interventions, were performed without following the principles of asepsis. As a result, 40% of maternal deaths were caused by sepsis (half following delivery and half associated with illegally induced abortion) with the remaining deaths primarily attributed to hemorrhage and toxemia (2).

I'd be interested to know how NOW got half. At most, that works out to a fifth.

By the way, this is the probably the most pertinent statistic as it relates to deaths from illegal abortions.

As you can see, the number of deaths via illegal abortion were falling long before Roe v. Wade and were nowhere near the "thousands" pro-choicers throw out. In fact, as you can see, Roe v. Wade occurs at the tail end of the downward trend. But, hey. Who needs facts, right? Roe v. Wade made abortions safe! (<-sarcasm, for those who can't tell). As far as the line that "hundreds/thousands of women were maimed by illegal abortions" well, good luck with that citation (because it's untrue).

80% of Americans believe in a woman's right to choose, to one extent or another. Some believe in an unfettered right, others with limitations, but 80% think that abortion should be a choice for women, to one extent or another.

I'm going to call up Planned Parenthood, NOW, NARAL or the ACLU, tell them I believe that abortion should be illegal except in cases of rape and maternal health and that I'm pro-choice. I wonder how well that will turn out. On a serious note, to channel my inner Black woman (even though I'm a Black male), child please. This is the new pro-choice talking point because they don't want to admit that their view is in the minority. Pro-lifers as a whole would GLADLY limit abortions to cases of rape, incest, maternal health and fetal defects, all instances where majorities will say abortion is permissible; pro-choicers as a whole would NEVER limit abortions to just those reasons, even though they're the only instances in which majorities say abortion is permissible. Why the dishonesty?

The anti-abortion faction is a minority of the people of the United States. Yet these people who supposedly believe in individual freedom and personal responsibility, in fact are adament about it, would deny others those very things they claim for themselves. And then they claim they are doing it for reasons of moral superiority. Hubris!

Individual freedom ends when it infringes upon the life of another. Really. How hard is that to understand?

 

[JustSomeGuy]

I was responding to the people who claim that illegal abortions were killing/maiming people "left and right" prior to Roe v. Wade. It's a lie,

Given the amount of blood you'd need to wash of your hands, of course you have to tell yourself that.

http://www.cmaj.ca/content/158/4/528.full.pdf
---
He served his internship and obstetrics/gynecology
residency at Cook County Hospital in Chicago in the
mid-1960s. In those days a ward was dedicated exclu-
sively to septic complications of pregnancy. Each day 10
to 30 septic-abortion patients were admitted to the 40-
bed ward; stretchers often lined the halls. Each morning,
the 2 incoming interns mixed up 40 to 60 litres of IV
fluid containing tetracycline, oxytocin and ergometrine
to prepare for the day’s influx

There was a maternal death about once a month, usu-
ally from septic shock associated with hemorrhage. “I
will never forget a 17-year-old girl lying on a stretcher,
with 6 feet of small bowel protruding from her vagina.
She survived. I will never forget the jaundiced woman
with liver and kidney failure who was in endotoxic shock
and had a hematocrit of 4. We were unable to save her.”
---
JustSomeGuy, of course, will claim it's all a fabrication. How else can he sleep at night? He needs to somehow convince himself that the evil he clamors for really isn't all that evil.

Surprise, surprise! Someone didn't read what was posted. Color me surprised.

 

[wihosa]

In the real world people have to make tough decisions. When my wife became pregnant for the fifth time, even though she was on the pill, it's only 98% effective, we made the decision to abort the pregnancy. Here were our reasons. Our fourth was a very difficult pregnancy with the delivery coming breach. My business was still tenuous, income marginal. We had and still do have a very small house. We didn't have health insurance. We didn't get any public assistance and didn't want to have any. Would my wife survive another pregnancy? Could I raise five children alone?

As agnostics we weren't compelled by myth to have another child regardless of what it would mean for the rest of the children or ourselves.

The fact is, it (we never knew the gender) did not have a conscience, did not have awareness, could not feel. We have not suffered remorse. We carried on with the very hard work of raising our family and happily our fourth is now seventeen and the others have all moved out and are doing well on their own.

Call us what you want but we made the right decision for ourselves and those we had already committed to.

There are millions of women living in the real world who have to make very tough decisions. Rape and incest. Lack of financial ability. Lack of a partner or spouse. Damage or deformation of the fetus. Too young to become a parent. Risk to the mothers life. Millions of circumstances that nobody has a right sticking there nose into. Real life decisions about who should carry a pregnancy to term can only be made by the one who is pregnant.

 

[Esmeralda]

Now, you may argue about instances of rape where women really have no choice.

This is a very valid argument. Rapes are terribly unfortunate events, and in those cases the possibility of adoption exists. Although it must be a horrible experience for the mother, she may be the blessing a family that can't have children has been waiting for.

How do you think the child feels when it grows up and learns it is not only adopted but is the product of a rape? The problem with your perspective is that you really don't have the ability to emphathize with anyone. You only see your point of view. Walk a mile in a woman's shoes who has been raped, then tell her to carry and nurture the result of that rape for 9 months, to know that the man who raped you now resides inside of you for nearly a year. Walk in the shoes of a woman whose birth control failed, a woman who already has as many or more children than she can deal with and give each the optimum care, and then she has another one. Walk in the shoes of a woman who carries a child to term but can't keep it for various reasons, so she puts it up for adoption. Live the rest of her life wondering what happened to that child. Walk in the shoes of a teenager, as young as 14 or 15, who makes a mistake and gets pregnant. Who pays for that mistake? Not the boy, the girl does. Carrying the child to term and keeping it changes the rest of her life. Carrying it to term and giving it up for adoption changes the rest of her life. You are a man, you have no idea whatsoever the issues a woman faces. You have no right to dictate to women what their choices should be.

Walk a mile in someone else's shoes before you dictate to them how to live.

 

[Esmeralda]

In the real world people have to make tough decisions. When my wife became pregnant for the fifth time, even though she was on the pill, it's only 98% effective, we made the decision to abort the pregnancy. Here were our reasons. Our fourth was a very difficult pregnancy with the delivery coming breach. My business was still tenuous, income marginal. We had and still do have a very small house. We didn't have health insurance. We didn't get any public assistance and didn't want to have any. Would my wife survive another pregnancy? Could I raise five children alone?

As agnostics we weren't compelled by myth to have another child regardless of what it would mean for the rest of the children or ourselves.

The fact is, it (we never knew the gender) did not have a conscience, did not have awareness, could not feel. We have not suffered remorse. We carried on with the very hard work of raising our family and happily our fourth is now seventeen and the others have all moved out and are doing well on their own.

Call us what you want but we made the right decision for ourselves and those we had already committed to.

There are millions of women living in the real world who have to make very tough decisions. Rape and incest. Lack of financial ability. Lack of a partner or spouse. Damage or deformation of the fetus. Too young to become a parent. Risk to the mothers life. Millions of circumstances that nobody has a right sticking there nose into. Real life decisions about who should carry a pregnancy to term can only be made by the one who is pregnant.

Exactly

 

[Wicked Jester]

No, I don't.

So what is your point again?

Jesus, you are indeed as dense as you act.

1. You said abortion is murder

2. You want to make abortion the crime of murder

...what do you want to do with the women you convict of murder?

Charge those who perform the abortion with murder/s, and sentence them according to guidelines......If the mother dies during the abortion, charge them on two counts of murder.

Charge the mother with Accesory To Murder/s at the very least, and sentence them according to guidelines.

 

[Unkotare]

How do you think the child feels when it grows up and learns it is not only adopted but is the product of a rape? .

Do YOU think that child feels as if he or she would rather never have had the opportunity to LIVE? Are you insane, or just so completely callous and indifferent to the value of life that a child (or as you might term it, a "mistake") might just as well never live if he or she in any way inconveniences an adult or might some day find out that the circumstances of their birth were less than ideal?

 

[Wicked Jester]

^ there you have it folks.

___ the children who are here now and need loving parents. Ze have to protect ze zygotes!

There is always adoption.

I agree. If lifers are going to force women to give birth, it is only fair that we force the lifers to adopt the babies. Seeing they care about children and all.

Yeah, your demented ass showed just how much you care about children and all, when you emphatically stated you would have killed those conjoined twins referenced in that other thread, AFTER THEY WERE BORN ALIVE, because in your seriously twisted mind they were nothing more than "MONSTROCITIES,.....you fuckin' sick, twisted, demented, heartless ghoul.

Anybody wanting to see the face of the pro-choice movement, need look no further than Noomi the freaks avatars.....Anybody wanting to see the heart of the pro-choice movement, need only read the words of Noomi the freak.

Ghouls are ghouls, after all, and there is no difference from one to the other, whatsoever.

 

[JustSomeGuy]

Now, you may argue about instances of rape where women really have no choice.

This is a very valid argument. Rapes are terribly unfortunate events, and in those cases the possibility of adoption exists. Although it must be a horrible experience for the mother, she may be the blessing a family that can't have children has been waiting for.

How do you think the child feels when it grows up and learns it is not only adopted but is the product of a rape? The problem with your perspective is that you really don't have the ability to emphathize with anyone. You only see your point of view. Walk a mile in a woman's shoes who has been raped, then tell her to carry and nurture the result of that rape for 9 months, to know that the man who raped you now resides inside of you for nearly a year. Walk in the shoes of a woman whose birth control failed, a woman who already has as many or more children than she can deal with and give each the optimum care, and then she has another one. Walk in the shoes of a woman who carries a child to term but can't keep it for various reasons, so she puts it up for adoption. Live the rest of her life wondering what happened to that child. Walk in the shoes of a teenager, as young as 14 or 15, who makes a mistake and gets pregnant. Who pays for that mistake? Not the boy, the girl does. Carrying the child to term and keeping it changes the rest of her life. Carrying it to term and giving it up for adoption changes the rest of her life. You are a man, you have no idea whatsoever the issues a woman faces. You have no right to dictate to women what their choices should be.

Walk a mile in someone else's shoes before you dictate to them how to live.

I would like to play this game. Walk a mile in the shoes of the child who is aborted.

...Oh, wait. You couldn't. You'd be dead.

By the way, MEN. ARE. MORE. PERMISSIVE. OF. ABORTION. THAN. ARE. WOMEN.

If we're going to make this a male vs. female issue, then the above should be pointed out a million times over.

 

[koshergrl]

And the men who are most dedicated to abortion...porn addicts, human traffickers, deadbeat dads and abusers.

Abortion plays a big role in their exploitation of women and girls. PP is their best friend.