Abortions: Should Women be Allowed to Choose?

[koshergrl]

Oh, so you maintain it's okay to kill babies because they probably won't be nice people.

Got it.

 

[Cowman]

So sad...and a perfect example of the age of ignorance we are all suffering under...

We aren't going to run out of human fetuses. We are going to run out of those other things.

The problem in the world tody is, too many fetuses actually turn into people, and the world can't support them all.

WRONG! The problem is not too many humans. Leftists and eugenists have been promoting this lie, which you accept, for decades. They claimed it over 100 years ago when the total human population was less than 1 billion. Now we are at 7 billion. Why do you accept lies as truth?

Today the population in much of the world is not growing, but declining. Apparently you are not aware of this.

Please. Please back that up with ONE SINGLE FACT.

The earth's population is growing, and at a rapid rate.

Look at global birth/death ratios and you'll see that the ratio is in favor of population growth still, and far into the near future. This is not counting global catastrophies that may happen at some random time in the future.

 

[Katzndogz]

Oh, so you maintain it's okay to kill babies because they probably won't be nice people.

Got it.

Bad people like Tim Tebow and Justin Beiber. Got it.

 

[koshergrl]

Oh, ok. So we should kill poor peoples' babies cuz there are too many.

Someone else did that and was villified forever...who was it?

Oh yeah...PHAROAH....then HITLER.

 

[Expat]

Why is there an assumption that women with unintended pregnancies didn't use birth control? Why is it she chose pregnancy or she was raped? Men and women have sex and no birth control is 100%. A woman can use birth control her entire fertile life and not have a single unintended pregnancy. And some will slip through the cracks either by failure to use properly or failure of the birth control.


I would like to see fear of poverty taken out of the equation when women are making this decision. Not women choosing abortion because they aren't interested in adoption and aren't willing to bring a child up in poverty. I'd rather help support them finish their education/training and be able to support themselves and a child above poverty levels.

Living in Canada right now, there aren't any limitations. Abortion is covered by UHC and at all trimesters. But Canada has less late term abortions than the US. Women can do terminate at anytime, for no fee and there are private clinics paid by UHC as well hospitals performing them. But abortion rates are lower per capita and late term abortion numbers are lower per capita. What single parent friendly options are available to women making this decision in the US?

 

[Expat]

Please. Please back that up with ONE SINGLE FACT.

The earth's population is growing, and at a rapid rate.

She may be getting confused with birth rates falling in a lot of countries. Earth's population is still rising, meanwhile, Canada, UK, Germany, Italy, Japan etc... have birth rates below replacement levels.

United States comes ranking 121 here: https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2127rank.html at 2.06 children per woman. UK 1.09/woman. Netherlands 1.78/woman. etc....

Western nations are watching our birth rates decline and our populations age. The issue shouldn't be ignored. However, I hardly think the best response is to take abortion off the table.

 

[JoeB131]

[

WRONG! The problem is not too many humans. Leftists and eugenists have been promoting this lie, which you accept, for decades. They claimed it over 100 years ago when the total human population was less than 1 billion. Now we are at 7 billion. Why do you accept lies as truth?

Today the population in much of the world is not growing, but declining. Apparently you are not aware of this.

It's not declining in total... The icecaps are melting, the rain forests are vanishing, and the only reason we aren't in a bigger mess is most of the world's 7 Billion people don't live like Americans. If they did, we'd need 3 planets to support them all.

 

[JoeB131]

Oh, ok. So we should kill poor peoples' babies cuz there are too many.

Someone else did that and was villified forever...who was it?

Oh yeah...PHAROAH....then HITLER.

Pharoah never killed anyone. That's a myth. There is no evidence the Hebrews ever lived in Egypt.

Also, the purpose in that myth was to get one baby.

Hitler's plan wasn't based on poverty, it was based on race... so that doesn't count, either. Nice use of the Godwins, though. You go with that.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Oh, ok. So we should kill poor peoples' babies cuz there are too many.

Someone else did that and was villified forever...who was it?

Oh yeah...PHAROAH....then HITLER.

Oh, brother...

 

[TemplarKormac]

[

So, how is asking a rhetorical question a violation of the rules? Sensitive much? What is there to get offended about? But can you really sit there and threaten me when I have done nothing wrong? If you don't like the questions, don't take up questionable positions.

Keep making cracks about people's families. My guess is you won't be here long. Did you even BOTHER to read the rules before you got here?

And then you said the US was #2 in the world in Abortions, as if we were still the worst no matter who won the top spot. Secondly you said we were forcing abortions? Okay now you have me confused. I thought you were pro-choice? Um... okay...

No, the only thing that has you confused is tht you are quite possibly slightly retarded.

Frankly, I wouldn't care how many abortions we have, but if you guys care about this so much, why do the other ADVANCED DEMOCRACIES have lower rates? If your goal is "less" abortions, how do you get there? This is your goal, not mine. My goal is to humiliate and anger religious nutbags at every turn. Legal abortion does that, which more than satisfies me.

So which one are you, pro choice or anti both ways? Your positions are extremely confusing.

I don't even think you know what you believe in at the moment.

No, I know exactly what I believe.

I believe that all you right wing nutbags who keep voting for Repukes to get abortion banned are voting against your own economic interests. And to be fair, I did this FOR YEARS. Good catholic upbringing, I got the whole Fetus Picture Propaganda tour.

But at the end of the day, guess what, they don't want to ban abortion, they want to keep you angry so you keep voting against your own interests.

So while that wonderful middle class that let my parents have five kids comfortably vanishes, you guys have all this misdirected anger. You actually are doing this to yourselves.

If I otherwise demean your family, then yes, I would be. But it was a simple question you refused to answer. If you cannot handle it, please, stop acting like you are the forum police. I know what my interests are, thanks. I have never voted against any of them in my life.

You lost the moment you decided to dodge my question. Go ahead and report me if you like, but I have broken no rule. But the question still remains:

If your parents had your attitude about abortion, could you honestly say you would be sitting there right now? This isn't a joke, a quip or a wisecrack, it a question. If you cannot answer it, it shows how closed minded people like you are. Spare me your self righteous indignation Joe.

You'd rather a woman kill her late term baby rather than take on the consequences of having it in the first place. You attitude turns my stomach.

 

[TemplarKormac]

Oh, ok. So we should kill poor peoples' babies cuz there are too many.

Someone else did that and was villified forever...who was it?

Oh yeah...PHAROAH....then HITLER.

Pharoah never killed anyone. That's a myth. There is no evidence the Hebrews ever lived in Egypt.

Also, the purpose in that myth was to get one baby.

Hitler's plan wasn't based on poverty, it was based on race... so that doesn't count, either. Nice use of the Godwins, though. You go with that.

http://www.jewishjournal.com/passover/article/passover_proof_lies_in_egyptian_hieroglyphs_20100324

 

[JoeB131]

[

If I otherwise demean your family, then yes, I would be. But it was a simple question you refused to answer. If you cannot handle it, please, stop acting like you are the forum police. I know what my interests are, thanks. I have never voted against any of them in my life.

You lost the moment you decided to dodge my question. Go ahead and report me if you like, but I have broken no rule. But the question still remains:

Who says I haven't.... Like I said, I doubt you'll be here that long, so I'll enjoy mocking you while you are.

If your parents had your attitude about abortion, could you honestly say you would be sitting there right now? This isn't a joke, a quip or a wisecrack, it a question. If you cannot answer it, it shows how closed minded people like you are. Spare me your self righteous indignation Joe

.

Actually, I have no doubt I'd be here, because I was the first born boy in my family and my dad wanted a boy to carry the family name. (All the family who had lived in Germany had been killed in the war.)

My attitude about abortion doesn't reflect what my policy view is. If I fathered a child, I'd take responsiblity for it. But I also know- and here's the part you don't get - it really isn't MY decision to make.

You'd rather a woman kill her late term baby rather than take on the consequences of having it in the first place. You attitude turns my stomach.

I'd have rather seen these women 1) Get proper sex education to not get pregnant to start with or failing that 2) get a government paid for abortion in the first tirmester.

But since we don't do those things thanks to Retarded Christians being taken seriously, we have poor women scraping up enough money to have abortions in the fifth or sixth month, when the baby still isn't really viable without radical medical intervention.

Gosnell's the result of your policy attitudes, not mine.

 

[JustSomeGuy]

We aren't going to run out of human fetuses. We are going to run out of those other things.

The problem in the world tody is, too many fetuses actually turn into people, and the world can't support them all.

WRONG! The problem is not too many humans. Leftists and eugenists have been promoting this lie, which you accept, for decades. They claimed it over 100 years ago when the total human population was less than 1 billion. Now we are at 7 billion. Why do you accept lies as truth?

Today the population in much of the world is not growing, but declining. Apparently you are not aware of this.

Please. Please back that up with ONE SINGLE FACT.

The earth's population is growing, and at a rapid rate.

Look at global birth/death ratios and you'll see that the ratio is in favor of population growth still, and far into the near future. This is not counting global catastrophies that may happen at some random time in the future.

You can't even read your own graph. Only under the high estimate does the population grow at a rapid rate. Under all other estimates, the growth rate is slower than what it is currently.

 

[TemplarKormac]

[

If I otherwise demean your family, then yes, I would be. But it was a simple question you refused to answer. If you cannot handle it, please, stop acting like you are the forum police. I know what my interests are, thanks. I have never voted against any of them in my life.

You lost the moment you decided to dodge my question. Go ahead and report me if you like, but I have broken no rule. But the question still remains:

Who says I haven't.... Like I said, I doubt you'll be here that long, so I'll enjoy mocking you while you are.

If your parents had your attitude about abortion, could you honestly say you would be sitting there right now? This isn't a joke, a quip or a wisecrack, it a question. If you cannot answer it, it shows how closed minded people like you are. Spare me your self righteous indignation Joe

.

Actually, I have no doubt I'd be here, because I was the first born boy in my family and my dad wanted a boy to carry the family name. (All the family who had lived in Germany had been killed in the war.)

My attitude about abortion doesn't reflect what my policy view is. If I fathered a child, I'd take responsiblity for it. But I also know- and here's the part you don't get - it really isn't MY decision to make.

Obviously you acknowledge your father had a choice, as if somehow he could control what gender you were born as. Your abortion arguments have many holes and flaws in them, especially this one. As a man you have one half of the genetic material that goes into making that child. To say it isn't your choice is like saying the child has no choice in whether it lives or dies. That is utterly barbaric, and you know it. By the way, I left the last political forum I was in after being a member for a couple of years. I'll be here, a thorn in your side as your perceive me to be.

 

[JoeB131]

Oh, ok. So we should kill poor peoples' babies cuz there are too many.

Someone else did that and was villified forever...who was it?

Oh yeah...PHAROAH....then HITLER.

Pharoah never killed anyone. That's a myth. There is no evidence the Hebrews ever lived in Egypt.

Also, the purpose in that myth was to get one baby.

Hitler's plan wasn't based on poverty, it was based on race... so that doesn't count, either. Nice use of the Godwins, though. You go with that.

http://www.jewishjournal.com/passover/article/passover_proof_lies_in_egyptian_hieroglyphs_20100324

Religious propaganda doesn't count as proof.

Here's the real test. The Bible mentions "Pharoah". but we never know which PHaroah that is.

Now, there are pharoahs later in the bible who can be clearly identified.

Not the important one. Oh, a few have suspected Rameses II, but that's just because Rameses was played by Yul Brenner and got a condom named after him.

William Denver, an archaeologist normally associated with the more conservative end of Syro-Palestinian archaeology, has labeled the question of the historicity of Exodus “dead.” Israeli archaeologist Ze'ev Herzog provides the current consensus view on the historicity of the Exodus: “The Israelites never were in Egypt. They never came from abroad. This whole chain is broken. It is not a historical one. It is a later legendary reconstruction—made in the seventh century [BCE]—of a history that never happened.”[4]

Evidence for the Exodus - RationalWiki

 

[JoeB131]

Obviously you acknowledge your father had a choice, as if somehow he could control what gender you were born as. Your abortion arguments have many holes and flaws in them, especially this one. As a man you have one half of the genetic material that goes into making that child. To say it isn't your choice is like saying the child has no choice in whether it lives or dies. That is utterly barbaric, and you know it. By the way, I left the last political forum I was in after being a member for a couple of years. I'll be here, as thorn in your side as your perceive me to be,

Naw, seen your type come and go... on many boards.

As a man, I have NO real say. It's not inside my body. That's really the practical end of the disussion. Unless I'm going to chain her to the radiator or something. (Not that I would want to give any of you Religious nutbags any ideas.) And that was the case really throughout history. Babies only happened if the woman wanted them to happen.

Otherwise they found ways to make it not happen.

 

[Expat]

If your parents had your attitude about abortion, could you honestly say you would be sitting there right now? This isn't a joke, a quip or a wisecrack, it a question. If you cannot answer it, it shows how closed minded people like you are. Spare me your self righteous indignation Joe

.

What difference does it make what a person's parents view on abortion is? My mother has had an abortion and holy shit, I actually survived her uterus. Do you imagine women that have abortions are out there looking for opportunities to get pregnant just so they can abort unborn baybee's? Does Elvis talk to you?

 

[Expat]

Naw, seen your type come and go... on many boards.

As a man, I have NO real say. It's not inside my body. That's really the practical end of the disussion. Unless I'm going to chain her to the radiator or something. (Not that I would want to give any of you Religious nutbags any ideas.) And that was the case really throughout history. Babies only happened if the woman wanted them to happen.

Otherwise they found ways to make it not happen.

Actually, they had septic abortion wards for all the DIYer's that went wrong.

History of Abortion, Orlando Womens Center, Orlando, Florida.

Isn't it wonderful women don't die from so many mysterious "women problems" that no one talks about anymore? Sepsis, yeah lets ban abortions and bring those expensive wards back. We want healthcare costs to spiral ever further out of control. Gives pro-lifers hard-ons just thinking about wayward women going septic. Appropriate punishment, no?

 

[TemplarKormac]

If your parents had your attitude about abortion, could you honestly say you would be sitting there right now? This isn't a joke, a quip or a wisecrack, it a question. If you cannot answer it, it shows how closed minded people like you are. Spare me your self righteous indignation Joe

.

What difference does it make what a person's parents view on abortion is? My mother has had an abortion and holy shit, I actually survived her uterus. Do you imagine women that have abortions are out there looking for opportunities to get pregnant just so they can abort unborn baybee's? Does Elvis talk to you?

I gave you some rep as a housewarming gift.

Welcome to the boards newcomer. What does it mean to me? I'll tell you. It defies logic to sit there and say "I advocate a woman's right to choose" when one right means the end of a human life, and the other spares her the indignity of it all; the indignity of being seen weighed down by the chains of responsibility. Another thing is the irony that those who are claiming to support abortion are themselves already brought into this world. Hey, that means you too! And no, Elvis does not speak to me, the truth does.

Don't expect me to be so nice next time, because if you continue your logical fallacies, the gloves come off.

Once again, welcome to USMB. Please enjoy your stay.

 

[TemplarKormac]

Obviously you acknowledge your father had a choice, as if somehow he could control what gender you were born as. Your abortion arguments have many holes and flaws in them, especially this one. As a man you have one half of the genetic material that goes into making that child. To say it isn't your choice is like saying the child has no choice in whether it lives or dies. That is utterly barbaric, and you know it. By the way, I left the last political forum I was in after being a member for a couple of years. I'll be here, as thorn in your side as your perceive me to be,

Naw, seen your type come and go... on many boards.

As a man, I have NO real say. It's not inside my body. That's really the practical end of the disussion. Unless I'm going to chain her to the radiator or something. (Not that I would want to give any of you Religious nutbags any ideas.) And that was the case really throughout history. Babies only happened if the woman wanted them to happen.

Otherwise they found ways to make it not happen.

My type? I think you're scared of me Joe. You do have a choice, your ejaculate helped spawn the growth a new life. You obviously do not know your role as a man if you surrender your choices to the one side of a relationship. You are willing to abdicate all of your power just so your woman could end the budding life of a perfectly good human being.

The fact that you cannot refrain from namecalling says a lot about you. Me, my faith and my statements scare you. I honestly hope you are scared of me, for I am not going anywhere. Enjoy!