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[High_Gravity]

Sky Dancer a homosexual doesn't have to do physical acts in public to get in trouble, most gays killed in Iraq and Iran never did anything in public.

 

[logical4u]

Islam does not promote totalitarian rule. Dictators use religion to control the people. They exploit sectarian differences to divide the people.

Human rights cannot happen with totalitarian rule. The religion of Islam is varied. It is NOT the problem you think it is.

THEOCRACY IS.

Islam's current Goal is an Islamic World under the Rule of Sharia Law. That is Fact. It is also Theocracy and Totalitarian in Nature. Hence the need for Reform in Islam. Hence, the sole purpose of this Thread.

The sole purpose of this thread is anti-islamic propaganda, which I oppose. You don't seem to know the difference between Islam as it expressed in Islamic Middle Eastern theocracies and Islam as it practiced in non-totalitarian or theocratic regimes.

You are paranoid. Sharia Law will never be the rule of law in America.

It's the same with Christianity. There is a tiny minority of Dominionists who seek world Christian domination. They cite the Bible as justification.

There is a minority of crazy Muslim terrorists who want to blow us up. The religion of Islam is not to blame.

"It's the same with Christianity. There is a tiny minority of Dominionists who seek world Christian domination. They cite the Bible as justification."

Where are the millions of Christians that are committing terrorists acts in the name of Christianity? Where are the countries that are run by Christian fanatics that oppress their population?

Sky Dancer, I believe your hatred of Christians is worse than any that accused of "hating" muslims. If you are going to continue making these bigoted claims, please provide the links.

 

[Sky Dancer]

Who said we need to take over other countries? just because you invade a country it does not mean the people will adopt your views, look at Iraq, homosexuals are hunted and killed in the streets there for sport.

Some Americans get enormous pleasure out of the fact that homosexuals are hunted and killed.

An American Christian church supported the death penalty for gays in Africa.

Why aren't we concerned about that?

Most Americans are not supportive of the treatment of Gays in Uganda, but thats a different subject. You really can't compare the treatment of homosexuals in the US to that of Muslim countries though, thats reaching.

Reaching? I'm reaching out to Americans. We need to start here. We need to condemn Christian churches that lend support to the death penalty for homosexuals cause in Uganda.

Do moderate and liberal Christians have a voice in America? Yes they do.

Do moderate and liberal Muslims have a voice in their totalitarian countries? NO.

 

[Ropey]

Sky Dancer a homosexual doesn't have to do physical acts in public to get in trouble, most gays killed in Iraq and Iran never did anything in public.

But if they show affection in public I put forward that they will be more quickly attended to and dealt with.

Very quickly I would say, for the basij will be on them quicker than white on rice.

 

[logical4u]

You are grossly misinformed. Do you even know what the Cordoba Initiative is???

You keep bringing up the Cordoba Initiative as if it is something bad or terrorist related?

This is from the Cordoba Initiative web site:

Our Mission

Solving some of the most intractable conflicts in the world today requires innovative strategies for cross-cultural engagement. Cordoba Initiative tackles this mandate with forethought, expertise and the ability to leverage contacts in influential positions within the Muslim World and the West. Thinking outside the box about international and intercultural conflict resolution also means thinking introspectively about each side's place within its own historical narrative with a view to devising internally oriented solutions.

Why Cordoba Initiative?

The programs at Cordoba Initiative (CI) are designed to cultivate multi-cultural and multi-faith understanding across minds and borders. In the ten years since our founding, the necessity to strengthen the bridge between Islam and the West continues to prevail. Cordoba Initiative seeks to actively promote engagement through a myriad of programs, by reinforcing similarities and addressing differences.

What does Cordoba Initiative Do?

Advising policy makers and thought leaders on urgent Muslim-West issues
Bringing new perspectives to familiar debates
Providing expert knowledge of Islamic Law and other technical subjects for use in the public square

Action

Building a network of young Muslim leaders to lead the drive for change in future generations
Responding to Muslim-West crises
Advocating for human rights, including higher standards for the treatment of women

Outcomes

Raising the bar of Islamic governance in Muslim-majority countries
Changing perceptions of the other in both the Muslim World and the West
Fostering cooperation between governments, civil society organizations, media, academics and business leaders in the Muslim World and the West

About CI | Cordoba

So by example these reforms have taken place in what ME countries? Where are the rights of non-muslims respected in these countries? You understand, we would like to see islam lead the way.

 

[High_Gravity]

Some Americans get enormous pleasure out of the fact that homosexuals are hunted and killed.

An American Christian church supported the death penalty for gays in Africa.

Why aren't we concerned about that?

Most Americans are not supportive of the treatment of Gays in Uganda, but thats a different subject. You really can't compare the treatment of homosexuals in the US to that of Muslim countries though, thats reaching.

Reaching? I'm reaching out to Americans. We need to start here. We need to condemn Christian churches that lend support to the death penalty for homosexuals cause in Uganda.

Do moderate and liberal Christians have a voice in America? Yes they do.

Do moderate and liberal Muslims have a voice in their totalitarian countries? NO.

I agree with you about the Christian Churchs that support the death penalty for homosexuals but I don't think Radical Muslims and Radical Christians are the same thing, I don't see Radical Christians indoctrinating new generations of Radical Christians and Madrassas and sending them to wage jihad in other countries, I don't see Radical Christians brainwashing their youth to become suicide bombers, I don't see Radical Christians trying to overthrow governments to make them more Christians. I see Radical Muslims doing all of this on a daily basis.

 

[Sky Dancer]

Islam's current Goal is an Islamic World under the Rule of Sharia Law. That is Fact. It is also Theocracy and Totalitarian in Nature. Hence the need for Reform in Islam. Hence, the sole purpose of this Thread.

The sole purpose of this thread is anti-islamic propaganda, which I oppose. You don't seem to know the difference between Islam as it expressed in Islamic Middle Eastern theocracies and Islam as it practiced in non-totalitarian or theocratic regimes.

You are paranoid. Sharia Law will never be the rule of law in America.

It's the same with Christianity. There is a tiny minority of Dominionists who seek world Christian domination. They cite the Bible as justification.

There is a minority of crazy Muslim terrorists who want to blow us up. The religion of Islam is not to blame.

"It's the same with Christianity. There is a tiny minority of Dominionists who seek world Christian domination. They cite the Bible as justification."

Where are the millions of Christians that are committing terrorists acts in the name of Christianity? Where are the countries that are run by Christian fanatics that oppress their population?

Sky Dancer, I believe your hatred of Christians is worse than any that accused of "hating" muslims. If you are going to continue making these bigoted claims, please provide the links.

There aren't millions of Islamic extremists committing terrorist acts any more than there are millions of Christians committing terrorist acts.

There are Dominionists in America. They want to make the US a Christian theocracy. You can ignore that if you wish.

If you are going to call me a hater and a bigot our posting days are over. See ya.

 

[High_Gravity]

The sole purpose of this thread is anti-islamic propaganda, which I oppose. You don't seem to know the difference between Islam as it expressed in Islamic Middle Eastern theocracies and Islam as it practiced in non-totalitarian or theocratic regimes.

You are paranoid. Sharia Law will never be the rule of law in America.

It's the same with Christianity. There is a tiny minority of Dominionists who seek world Christian domination. They cite the Bible as justification.

There is a minority of crazy Muslim terrorists who want to blow us up. The religion of Islam is not to blame.

"It's the same with Christianity. There is a tiny minority of Dominionists who seek world Christian domination. They cite the Bible as justification."

Where are the millions of Christians that are committing terrorists acts in the name of Christianity? Where are the countries that are run by Christian fanatics that oppress their population?

Sky Dancer, I believe your hatred of Christians is worse than any that accused of "hating" muslims. If you are going to continue making these bigoted claims, please provide the links.

There aren't millions of Islamic extremists committing terrorist acts any more than there are millions of Christians committing terrorist acts.

There are Dominionists in America. They want to make the US a Christian theocracy. You can ignore that if you wish.

If you are going to call me a hater and a bigot our posting days are over. I don't take abuse.

Most Americans are Christian but don't want to live under a religious government, Muslims however, supposedly want to live under an Islamic state. Even Sunni man and Kalam say they want this.

 

[logical4u]

By exposing Shariah for what it is, forces muslims to acknowledge there might be a better way (of government),

You'll find it difficult to 'expose' something as long as you lack a basic understanding of its nature.

Bs demonstrated by riots all over the ME.

None of the systems of governance used presently in the Middle East are Shari'i. The causes and nature of the ongoing protests and revolutions also seem to elude you.

Are the countries' leaders muslim?

 

[High_Gravity]

Sky Dancer a homosexual doesn't have to do physical acts in public to get in trouble, most gays killed in Iraq and Iran never did anything in public.

But if they show affection in public I put forward that they will be more quickly attended to and dealt with.

Very quickly I would say, for the basij will be on them quicker than white on rice.

It doesn't even have to be Iran, even our "allies" Egypt and Kuwait throw their homosexuals in the jail quicker than you could say Bobs your Uncle.

 

[Sky Dancer]

Most Americans are not supportive of the treatment of Gays in Uganda, but thats a different subject. You really can't compare the treatment of homosexuals in the US to that of Muslim countries though, thats reaching.

Reaching? I'm reaching out to Americans. We need to start here. We need to condemn Christian churches that lend support to the death penalty for homosexuals cause in Uganda.

Do moderate and liberal Christians have a voice in America? Yes they do.

Do moderate and liberal Muslims have a voice in their totalitarian countries? NO.

I agree with you about the Christian Churchs that support the death penalty for homosexuals but I don't think Radical Muslims and Radical Christians are the same thing, I don't see Radical Christians indoctrinating new generations of Radical Christians and Madrassas and sending them to wage jihad in other countries, I don't see Radical Christians brainwashing their youth to become suicide bombers, I don't see Radical Christians trying to overthrow governments to make them more Christians. I see Radical Muslims doing all of this on a daily basis.

You're right. Radical Christians in our country are not violent. They are in Northern Ireland, however.

Terrorists are misusing Islamic religious rhetoric and brainwashing their youth to become suicide bombers.

That is NOT a function of the cause as being Islam.

The cause of terrorism is narrow minded extremism, lack of feeling other methods will work and hatred.

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

Sufis are rejected as heretics by many Muslims as well.

Sufi are pretty muslim in some ways

Al-Ghazali, a Sufi orthodox Muslim, and follower of the Shafi’i school of Islamic jurisprudence, wrote this about jihad war and the treatment of the vanquished non-Muslim dhimmi peoples, in the Wadjiz: [4]

[O]ne must go on jihad (i.e., warlike razzias or raids) at least once a year…one may use a catapult against them [non-Muslims] when they are in a fortress, even if among them are women and children. One may set fire to them and/or drown them…If a person of the Ahl al-Kitab [People of The Book – primarily Jews and Christians] is enslaved, his marriage is [automatically] revoked…One may cut down their trees…One must destroy their useless books. Jihadists may take as booty whatever they decide…they may steal as much food as they need…


[T]he dhimmi is obliged not to mention Allah or His Apostle…Jews, Christians, and Majians must pay the jizya [poll tax on non-Muslims]…on offering up the jizya, the dhimmi must hang his head while the official takes hold of his beard and hits [thedhimmi] on the protruberant bone beneath his ear [i.e., the mandible]…

They are not permitted to ostentatiously display their wine or church bells…their houses may not be higher than the Muslim’s, no matter how low that is. The dhimmi may not ride an elegant horse or mule; he may ride a donkey only if the saddle [-work] is of wood. He may not walk on the good part of the road. They [the dhimmis] have to wear [an identifying] patch [on their clothing], even women, and even in the [public] baths…[dhimmis] must hold their tongue….

Where did you get this stuff from? Please show your source. Link.

Sufi Jihad?
By Andrew G. Bostom
\American Thinker: Sufi Jihad?
Al-Ghazali - New World Encyclopedia
The Legacy of Jihad [Andrew G. Bostom] - Excerpts
The Legacy of Jihad: Islamic Holy ... - Google Books

 

[Sky Dancer]

Sky Dancer a homosexual doesn't have to do physical acts in public to get in trouble, most gays killed in Iraq and Iran never did anything in public.

But if they show affection in public I put forward that they will be more quickly attended to and dealt with.

Very quickly I would say, for the basij will be on them quicker than white on rice.

It doesn't even have to be Iran, even our "allies" Egypt and Kuwait throw their homosexuals in the jail quicker than you could say Bobs your Uncle.

Did you know Ropey wants me to go to Iran?

 

[High_Gravity]

But if they show affection in public I put forward that they will be more quickly attended to and dealt with.

Very quickly I would say, for the basij will be on them quicker than white on rice.

It doesn't even have to be Iran, even our "allies" Egypt and Kuwait throw their homosexuals in the jail quicker than you could say Bobs your Uncle.

Did you know Ropey wants me to go to Iran?

I think hes just using Iran as an example, I wouldn't even wish my worst enemy to go to Iran, its a shame because I love Iranian cuisine and their women are banging!

 

[Sky Dancer]

Sufi are pretty muslim in some ways

Al-Ghazali, a Sufi orthodox Muslim, and follower of the Shafi’i school of Islamic jurisprudence, wrote this about jihad war and the treatment of the vanquished non-Muslim dhimmi peoples, in the Wadjiz: [4]

[O]ne must go on jihad (i.e., warlike razzias or raids) at least once a year…one may use a catapult against them [non-Muslims] when they are in a fortress, even if among them are women and children. One may set fire to them and/or drown them…If a person of the Ahl al-Kitab [People of The Book – primarily Jews and Christians] is enslaved, his marriage is [automatically] revoked…One may cut down their trees…One must destroy their useless books. Jihadists may take as booty whatever they decide…they may steal as much food as they need…


[T]he dhimmi is obliged not to mention Allah or His Apostle…Jews, Christians, and Majians must pay the jizya [poll tax on non-Muslims]…on offering up the jizya, the dhimmi must hang his head while the official takes hold of his beard and hits [thedhimmi] on the protruberant bone beneath his ear [i.e., the mandible]…

They are not permitted to ostentatiously display their wine or church bells…their houses may not be higher than the Muslim’s, no matter how low that is. The dhimmi may not ride an elegant horse or mule; he may ride a donkey only if the saddle [-work] is of wood. He may not walk on the good part of the road. They [the dhimmis] have to wear [an identifying] patch [on their clothing], even women, and even in the [public] baths…[dhimmis] must hold their tongue….

Where did you get this stuff from? Please show your source. Link.

Sufi Jihad?
By Andrew G. Bostom
\American Thinker: Sufi Jihad?
Al-Ghazali - New World Encyclopedia
The Legacy of Jihad [Andrew G. Bostom] - Excerpts
The Legacy of Jihad: Islamic Holy ... - Google Books

I don't suppose you've ever read any Sufi poets or know any Sufi's personally. You've cited the same book multiple times.

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

Terrorists are misusing Islamic religious rhetoric and brainwashing their youth to become suicide bombers.

That is NOT a function of the cause as being Islam.

.

Where did you get this stuff from? Please show your source. Link.

 

[High_Gravity]

Reaching? I'm reaching out to Americans. We need to start here. We need to condemn Christian churches that lend support to the death penalty for homosexuals cause in Uganda.

Do moderate and liberal Christians have a voice in America? Yes they do.

Do moderate and liberal Muslims have a voice in their totalitarian countries? NO.

I agree with you about the Christian Churchs that support the death penalty for homosexuals but I don't think Radical Muslims and Radical Christians are the same thing, I don't see Radical Christians indoctrinating new generations of Radical Christians and Madrassas and sending them to wage jihad in other countries, I don't see Radical Christians brainwashing their youth to become suicide bombers, I don't see Radical Christians trying to overthrow governments to make them more Christians. I see Radical Muslims doing all of this on a daily basis.

You're right. Radical Christians in our country are not violent. They are in Northern Ireland, however.

Terrorists are misusing Islamic religious rhetoric and brainwashing their youth to become suicide bombers.

That is NOT a function of the cause as being Islam.

The cause of terrorism is narrow minded extremism, lack of feeling other methods will work and hatred.

The terrorists in Northern Ireland have for the most part kept their attacks in the UK, I don't recall them attacking the US, Russia or Germany for example. Islamic terrorists for the most part just want to kill everyone, even other Muslims.

 

[Sky Dancer]

It doesn't even have to be Iran, even our "allies" Egypt and Kuwait throw their homosexuals in the jail quicker than you could say Bobs your Uncle.

Did you know Ropey wants me to go to Iran?

I think hes just using Iran as an example, I wouldn't even wish my worst enemy to go to Iran, its a shame because I love Iranian cuisine and their women are banging!

No. He wants me to go there so I can experience his definition of physical submission instead of my version of spiritual surrender.

 

[logical4u]

You didn't see the post where I said that Sunni Man's solution to Jews was disgusting. I don't agree with his view about Judaism, not do I agree with his views regarding homosexuality either.

That doesn't mean I hate him or I think his views have anything to do with his religion. He's intolerant, but it's not his religion that makes him so.

I do not hate Jews, and I resent you telling me I do. As for hating homsosexuals, I am a lesbian. Stop making assumptions.

You are the one making assumptions. If facts are laid on the table and they are ugly, covering them with a pretty cloth of deceit does not make them go away. When the reporter was raped (by muslims) in Egypt, it really troubled you. We are trying to figure out how to openly discuss the "facts" and how to improve our own "infidel" relationship with muslims (since they are such a huge portion of the population). If we walk into any country in the world that is run by islam (and we are not muslim or male), we are in danger. That is not racist, it is not predjudice, it is fact. As a conservative, I would like to see the freedoms offered in this country exported to other countries. I would like to see peaceful societies co-exist. If we are unwilling to "mention" problems, the problems will only get worse. By exposing Shariah for what it is, forces muslims to acknowledge there might be a better way (of government), as demonstrated by riots all over the ME. You claim to be knowledgeable with suffis(?sp). You have claimed they are peaceful. Do you know if they use Shariah? Do you know if women are given equal rights? Help us, don't stop the dialog.

What assumptions do you think I am making? The OP link is anti-islamic propaganda. It condemns the entire religion.

If you were to travel in Malaysia you would as a westerner have no problem even though that is a Muslim majority culture. I would not be afraid to travel in Malaysia.

I completely salute the Egyptian people for throwing Mubarak out and I hope the Libyans do the same to Qadaffi.

I've never heard of Sufi's using Shariah Law, but I am not an expert on Sufism or Shariah Law. Like you, I've only heard of Shariah Law as it is practiced horribly in some Islamic theocracies.

I've known Sufis and was very close to one, who mentored me in counseling back in the mid-eighties. The Sufi who mentored me was a woman. I am a great fan of Sufi poets, and find their spiritual message completely compatible with Buddhism.

Mention all the problems you have with Shariah Law. I have plenty myself. But don't tell me all of Islam is violent and that the Islamic religion is INHERENTLY violent.

I traveled in Muslim areas and did not fear for my safety. I was unnerved however, by not seeing any women out in public unless they were accompanied by men and wearing veils.

Article: US warns of possible terrorist attacks in Malaysia ...
Free article about 'US warns of possible terrorist attacks in Malaysia.' at AccessMyLibrary.com. Search information that libraries trust!

www.accessmylibrary.com/coms2/summary_0286-23276145_ITMTerrorist attacks in Bali by 3 Malaysia suicide bombers from Al ...
Weblog | Articles | Satire | Links | About | Contact. Militant Islam Monitor > Articles > Terrorist attacks in Bali by 3 ...

Militant Islam Monitor Advice for Malaysia - Australian Department of Foreign ...

We advise you to exercise caution and monitor developments that might affect your safety in Malaysia because of the risk of terrorist attack. In planning your activities ...

Travel Advice for MalaysiaMalaysia - Australian Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade says US terrorist attack warning on Sabah "misleading"
KUALA LUMPUR - Malaysia has urged the United States to review a travel advisory that warned terrorists are targeting Borneo tourist destinations, describing it as ...

Malaysia says US terrorist attack warning on Sabah misleading - Channel NewsAsia regroup in southern Thailand
In fact, Washington had in May issued a warning of possible terrorist attacks emanating from Sabah, Malaysia, and ...

www.atimes.com/atimes/Southeast_Asia/EH19Ae05.htmlU.S. warns of possible terrorist attack in Malaysia Truly Asia
0 posts · By Cole
"It is the responsibility of Islam to embrace the liberties required for citizens of a modern state, and not the other way around." Family Security Matters

thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2008/11/27/nation/20081127152958&sec=nationTerrorism Arrives In Malaysia
Jan 12, 2010 · A recent spate of church attacks forces the nation to examine ... fiction, Velvet and Cinder Blocks, details a planned attack on a Christian landmark in Malaysia.

www.forbes.com/2010/01/12/terrorism-malaysia-church-attack-opinions-contributors...

You think Malaysia is safe? Do you think that you (alone) would be safe anywhere a predominant muslim population was?

I am not saying that all muslims are evil and violent. I am saying that there are too many muslims that are... evil and violent. How do we change that? How do we reach people that think they are listening to a prophet that died fourteen hundred years ago that told them to force conversion, kill or treat as second class citizen those that do not believe as they do.

Instead of preaching how full of love you are for all (except Christians), why don't you help us figure out how to make it better?

 

[Kalam]

By exposing Shariah for what it is, forces muslims to acknowledge there might be a better way (of government),

You'll find it difficult to 'expose' something as long as you lack a basic understanding of its nature.

Bs demonstrated by riots all over the ME.

None of the systems of governance used presently in the Middle East are Shari'i. The causes and nature of the ongoing protests and revolutions also seem to elude you.

Are the countries' leaders muslim?

In terms of professed belief or in terms of practice?