About TheReligionofPeace.com

[High_Gravity]

You are grossly misinformed. Do you even know what the Cordoba Initiative is???

You keep bringing up the Cordoba Initiative as if it is something bad or terrorist related?

This is from the Cordoba Initiative web site:

Our Mission

Solving some of the most intractable conflicts in the world today requires innovative strategies for cross-cultural engagement. Cordoba Initiative tackles this mandate with forethought, expertise and the ability to leverage contacts in influential positions within the Muslim World and the West. Thinking outside the box about international and intercultural conflict resolution also means thinking introspectively about each side's place within its own historical narrative with a view to devising internally oriented solutions.

Why Cordoba Initiative?

The programs at Cordoba Initiative (CI) are designed to cultivate multi-cultural and multi-faith understanding across minds and borders. In the ten years since our founding, the necessity to strengthen the bridge between Islam and the West continues to prevail. Cordoba Initiative seeks to actively promote engagement through a myriad of programs, by reinforcing similarities and addressing differences.

What does Cordoba Initiative Do?

Advising policy makers and thought leaders on urgent Muslim-West issues
Bringing new perspectives to familiar debates
Providing expert knowledge of Islamic Law and other technical subjects for use in the public square

Action

Building a network of young Muslim leaders to lead the drive for change in future generations
Responding to Muslim-West crises
Advocating for human rights, including higher standards for the treatment of women

Outcomes

Raising the bar of Islamic governance in Muslim-majority countries
Changing perceptions of the other in both the Muslim World and the West
Fostering cooperation between governments, civil society organizations, media, academics and business leaders in the Muslim World and the West

About CI | Cordoba

Are you Sharia Compliant? What are your view's on bringing Sharia Law to the US Sunni??? What are the Views of the Cordoba Initiative on bringing Sharia Law here??? We bot know the answer to both those questions. Humor me, and rather than evade the questions, answer them. Tell Sky Dancer your true intent. Tell the World. Sharia is in need of Reform Sunni. It violates Human Rights. That is my only issue with you or Islam.

Shariah is out dated and not realistic for these times, I am in awe that Muslims want to live under it.

 

[Kalam]

We've discussed before Kalam. Substantive? You attack, I defend. I attack you defend.

That's all we have had. Quid pro Quo. You need to start something truly substantive with me for I see no give in you. And not one thread of substantive discussion here with the result being you then move to attack 'down there' in the den of iniquity.

You have seen give in me, and you have seen that I am more than willing to fight fire with fire. I have seen "NO" substantive offers from you.

Israel must be ended you say. Too bad you say. Too bad that Israel chose to build in the Muslim world.

Then you move to the Chechen conflict and want understanding from me? Sorry, you have been clear. So I hope I have as well.

Your approach to this baffles me. I'm not asking for an expression of solidarity with the causes I support or even for you to "understand" the motives that underlie them; I'm asking you to state certain historical facts so that we can build our discussion on a foundation of universally acknowledged truth.

This is not a discussion of Israel.

But I am still willing. You have seen me stand for Islam here. You have seen me strongly and clearly state that I do not see Islam as evil. That no book written to fight evil can truly be evil, but the interpretations can be higher degrees of evil.

Yes, you have done this. And you've also made statements that belie your expressions of approval. I'm left to wonder how someone could really believe that 'God' inspired a religion that you claim is devoted to the worship of a false deity when your book acknowledges that this would violate the very first (or second, depending on your preference) commandment He supposedly delivered to Moses (AS).

I never really feel the need to point out that I acknowledge our worship of the same and only One, or that belief in my religion involves acknowledging the basic legitimacy of yours. I realize that you know these things.

What have I received from you Kalam, and from Sunni Man? I can post both of your responses regarding me and Israel. Even so, I have always been civil with you. Even when you called me "filth" and other names.

In response to what I felt was an insult to innocent victims of brutality, yes. And I believe I apologized.

Uncivility is not limited to simple name-calling.

No Kalam. I believe that the ball is in your park, not mine.

Then I'll pose my question again -- why did Russia invade Chechnya in 1994?

 

[High_Gravity]

Then I'll pose my question again -- why did Russia invade Chechnya in 1994?

First Chechen War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[logical4u]

Bullshit. This thread is a complete condemnation of Muslims all over the world.

No it isn't. It's about acknowledging that there are a number of Muslims who seek to impose their religion on others - through force. And that's true.... because Muslims themselves say so.

It's about stirring up emnity toward Muslims. Specifically, it's about baiting Sunni Man and Kalam, so far the only Muslim posters I know of here. I checked out the website in the OP. It's very clever. Says it doesn't promote violence toward Muslims, and then proceeds to do nothing but bash Islam.

Otherwise, if this thread were a non-Islam bash it would be a thread discussing specific events in the world, not claiming the entire religion is dangerous. It's a general Muslim bash, as usual. An attempt to condemn the religion of Islam and all who practice it.

Let me draw an analogy for you. We've had a few murderers of abortion doctors who cited their religion as justification for their crimes. It's as if you are asking ALL CHRISTIANS to be responsible for those who misuse their teachings to hurt others.

How are regular Christians supposed to recognize and stop the terrorists in their midst?

It is a lot different Sky Dancer. Christians do not run the government or even claim to have the authority to do so. Muslims do. Personally, I would absolutely love to see muslims seperate the spiritual religion (going towards truth) from the government control of Sharia. Islam refuses to seperate them. Because of this there is no way that islam will ever be peaceful (unless living under someone else's rules). In the ME, there are people rioting, are they rioting against the spiritual side of their religion? No, they are rioting against their muslim rulers that use islam to control the population to the point of stagnation.
I have invited those that support islam to demonstrate where it works. Most will not even try. Kalam gave it a valiant effort, but in the end, proved nothing.
Islam, the spiritual side may be a great and good thing, but until it can be seperated from Sharia, an evil path for any society where men are encouraged to treat women as animals (and then breed them), along with hundreds of other atrocities; islam needs to be denounced for what it is: a path to corruption and barbarism.

 

[Kalam]

Predatory?

Islam: Making a True Difference in the World - One Body at a Time

More prolefeed. Not interested. How many civilian deaths have the two most recent invasions caused?

We are All in need of Reform Kalam. The West see's it, and has been on the path for a very long time. You are still in Denial. That is a very big distinction. We promote Human Rights, you Promote Totalitarian Rule, where the one with the biggest stick makes the Rules. We promote Establishment and Justice, determined by the Consent of the Governed, you promote Fear in the Governed and the Establishment of Arbitrary Dictate.

I'm always amused when the custodians of Guantanamo Bay and Abu Ghraib preach about "human rights." How long ago was it that the common Western understanding of that term didn't involve affording those rights to certain people solely on the basis of their pigmentation? Promoting human rights doesn't amount to much when your own flagrant disregard for them regularly draws international condemnation. Nearly every major power throughout history has been an agent of oppression and the United States is no exception in spite of any good qualities we might ascribe to it. Establishment... justice... consent of the governed... I'm having difficulty remembering when the people of Iraq and Afghanistan consented to your invasions and puppet governance.

Your characterizations of what I support and what I believe make it clear that you have no understanding of either.

 

[logical4u]

Check out the link in the OP. The whole purpose of that website is to discredit the RELIGION of Islam, not the actions of misguided adherents.

1.5 billion strangers is a whole lot of people in the world to hate.

And the misguided adherents? Define them please. Show some of the non misquided Muslim countries please.

That link is fine. It opens up the discussion. I know, the one you don't want to have.

Some past posts of Sunni Man. I note that you did not respond to them and they are all over this forum.

I posted this answer to you long ago. The answer is to accept them and leave them alone. The same answer for the Jews it would seem.

Both are objects of your hate.

Even if you protest you have no hate. Your world would have excised the Jews and Homosexuals (and I bet others too) and remove them from human inclusion.

That's hate at a high level. Even if you do not see it.

You didn't see the post where I said that Sunni Man's solution to Jews was disgusting. I don't agree with his view about Judaism, not do I agree with his views regarding homosexuality either.

That doesn't mean I hate him or I think his views have anything to do with his religion. He's intolerant, but it's not his religion that makes him so.

I do not hate Jews, and I resent you telling me I do. As for hating homsosexuals, I am a lesbian. Stop making assumptions.

You are the one making assumptions. If facts are laid on the table and they are ugly, covering them with a pretty cloth of deceit does not make them go away. When the reporter was raped (by muslims) in Egypt, it really troubled you. We are trying to figure out how to openly discuss the "facts" and how to improve our own "infidel" relationship with muslims (since they are such a huge portion of the population). If we walk into any country in the world that is run by islam (and we are not muslim or male), we are in danger. That is not racist, it is not predjudice, it is fact. As a conservative, I would like to see the freedoms offered in this country exported to other countries. I would like to see peaceful societies co-exist. If we are unwilling to "mention" problems, the problems will only get worse. By exposing Shariah for what it is, forces muslims to acknowledge there might be a better way (of government), as demonstrated by riots all over the ME. You claim to be knowledgeable with suffis(?sp). You have claimed they are peaceful. Do you know if they use Shariah? Do you know if women are given equal rights? Help us, don't stop the dialog.

 

[Sky Dancer]

How about Islam as it is practiced in Malaysia? It's not a theocracy there.

 

[logical4u]

If you look in the bible you will find violent language. In the past, that language has been used to justify violence. That doesn't mean the religion of Judaism or Christianity is violent because of these passages.

Are there people in the world today committing violent acts and using their religion to justify that? Yes. That's wrong.

I do not support violence, no matter whose religion appears to justify it.

Why aren't you talking to Muslims if you want to understand their scriptures?

I decide as a Buddhist, that the monks in Sri Lanka are misguided. There is NO justification for violence in the Buddha's teachings and I challenge anyone to study Kangyur and Tangyur and see if violence can be found.

Those monks engaged in violence in Sri Lanka are committing grave misdeeds and accumulating negative karma.

What does peace mean to me? It's means coexistence. Acceptance of differences.

You are completely wrong if you intend to start a war of Islam vs everyone else. Genocide in any form is abomination.

Where was the world when the Chinese committed genocide in Tibet?

I'll accept Muslims... I only have an issue with those Muslims that seek to impose their faith on others. They can forget that shit. Ain't gonna happen.

I have a problem with ANY faith seeking to impose itself on others. Muslims are not alone in that. Historically, other religions have practiced violent conversion.

In 777 , Charlemagne, a devout Christian, after conquering the Saxon rebels, gave them a choice between baptism and execution. When they refused to convert, he had 4500 of them beheaded in one morning.

How about comparing the numbers killed by each religion in this century Sky Dancer? Or does the truth bother you too much? If you want you can take it a century at a time. You can even compare the numbers killed by islam in the seven hundreds, not that you would do that, you might have to face "truth".

How does bashing those that want to expose truth, help? How does defending an entire religios group (including those that kill and maim for pleasure) seperate those that are crimminal? There is no one here that belives every muslim is evil. We want to figure out how to stop the violence and abuse.

 

[logical4u]

Of course, these are my views Ropey. Last time I looked I was free to express them.

You are also expressing your views, that the entire religion of Islam should be condemned because some lunatics misinterpret scripture.

In my view, you're wrong.

But I get the message. I'll stop posting my views on this thread.

If 30,000,000 people are misinterpreting scripture, shouldn't that be cause for alarm? Thirty million people are 2% of the muslim population. If "just" 2% are getting it wrong, there is a reason to try and correct the information/faith/religion/government of Shariah.

 

[Kalam]

By exposing Shariah for what it is, forces muslims to acknowledge there might be a better way (of government),

You'll find it difficult to 'expose' something as long as you lack a basic understanding of its nature.

Bs demonstrated by riots all over the ME.

None of the systems of governance used presently in the Middle East are Shari'i. The causes and nature of the ongoing protests and revolutions also seem to elude you.

 

[Intense]

Predatory?

Islam: Making a True Difference in the World - One Body at a Time

More prolefeed. Not interested. How many civilian deaths have the two most recent invasions caused?

We are All in need of Reform Kalam. The West see's it, and has been on the path for a very long time. You are still in Denial. That is a very big distinction. We promote Human Rights, you Promote Totalitarian Rule, where the one with the biggest stick makes the Rules. We promote Establishment and Justice, determined by the Consent of the Governed, you promote Fear in the Governed and the Establishment of Arbitrary Dictate.

I'm always amused when the custodians of Guantanamo Bay and Abu Ghraib preach about "human rights." How long ago was it that the common Western understanding of that term didn't involve affording those rights to certain people solely on the basis of their pigmentation? Promoting human rights doesn't amount to much when your own flagrant disregard for them regularly draws international condemnation. Nearly every major power throughout history has been an agent of oppression and the United States is no exception in spite of any good qualities we might ascribe to it. Establishment... justice... consent of the governed... I'm having difficulty remembering when the people of Iraq and Afghanistan consented to your invasions and puppet governance.

Your characterizations of what I support and what I believe make it clear that you have no understanding of either.

I think Guantanamo Bay a few steps ahead of a bullet in the head on the battle field, don't you? Human Right's issues are addressed in our Prisons Kalam, every day, which is as it should be. We are not making excuses for wrong doing, how about you? We Reform constantly. How about you? We Champion Individual Liberty, valuing All Life, how about You? What are you Championing? Your own Interpretation of what God is, and you are imposing it on others, rather than conforming with Conscience as your guide. What if you are wrong in what you think God is?

 

[Sky Dancer]

And the misguided adherents? Define them please. Show some of the non misquided Muslim countries please.

That link is fine. It opens up the discussion. I know, the one you don't want to have.

Some past posts of Sunni Man. I note that you did not respond to them and they are all over this forum.








That's hate at a high level. Even if you do not see it.

You didn't see the post where I said that Sunni Man's solution to Jews was disgusting. I don't agree with his view about Judaism, not do I agree with his views regarding homosexuality either.

That doesn't mean I hate him or I think his views have anything to do with his religion. He's intolerant, but it's not his religion that makes him so.

I do not hate Jews, and I resent you telling me I do. As for hating homsosexuals, I am a lesbian. Stop making assumptions.

You are the one making assumptions. If facts are laid on the table and they are ugly, covering them with a pretty cloth of deceit does not make them go away. When the reporter was raped (by muslims) in Egypt, it really troubled you. We are trying to figure out how to openly discuss the "facts" and how to improve our own "infidel" relationship with muslims (since they are such a huge portion of the population). If we walk into any country in the world that is run by islam (and we are not muslim or male), we are in danger. That is not racist, it is not predjudice, it is fact. As a conservative, I would like to see the freedoms offered in this country exported to other countries. I would like to see peaceful societies co-exist. If we are unwilling to "mention" problems, the problems will only get worse. By exposing Shariah for what it is, forces muslims to acknowledge there might be a better way (of government), as demonstrated by riots all over the ME. You claim to be knowledgeable with suffis(?sp). You have claimed they are peaceful. Do you know if they use Shariah? Do you know if women are given equal rights? Help us, don't stop the dialog.

What assumptions do you think I am making? The OP link is anti-islamic propaganda. It condemns the entire religion.

If you were to travel in Malaysia you would as a westerner have no problem even though that is a Muslim majority culture. I would not be afraid to travel in Malaysia.

I completely salute the Egyptian people for throwing Mubarak out and I hope the Libyans do the same to Qadaffi.

I've never heard of Sufi's using Shariah Law, but I am not an expert on Sufism or Shariah Law. Like you, I've only heard of Shariah Law as it is practiced horribly in some Islamic theocracies.

I've known Sufis and was very close to one, who mentored me in counseling back in the mid-eighties. The Sufi who mentored me was a woman. I am a great fan of Sufi poets, and find their spiritual message completely compatible with Buddhism.

Mention all the problems you have with Shariah Law. I have plenty myself. But don't tell me all of Islam is violent and that the Islamic religion is INHERENTLY violent.

I traveled in Muslim areas and did not fear for my safety. I was unnerved however, by not seeing any women out in public unless they were accompanied by men and wearing veils.

 

[High_Gravity]

How about Islam as it is practiced in Malaysia? It's not a theocracy there.

Doesn't have to be a theocracy to be corrupt.

Human rights in Malaysia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Kalam]

I think Guantanamo Bay a few steps ahead of a bullet in the head on the battle field, don't you?

I'm not sure if that matters since that doesn't seem to be an approach that either of us favors.

Human Right's issues are addressed in our Prisons Kalam, every day, which is as it should be. We are not making excuses for wrong doing, how about you? We Reform constantly. How about you? We Champion Individual Liberty, valuing All Life, how about You? What are you Championing?

As I said, advocacy counts for nothing if your actions aren't consistent with the principles you're advocating.

Your own Interpretation of what God is, and you are imposing it on others, rather than conforming with Conscience as your guide. What if you are wrong in what you think God is?

Who exactly is having my ideas imposed on them? What of the U.S. government's imposition of its interpretation of "freedom" on others?

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

How about Islam as it is practiced in Malaysia? It's not a theocracy there.

How closely do you want to look @ Islam in Malaysia?
From a great distance Im sure.

 

[High_Gravity]

You didn't see the post where I said that Sunni Man's solution to Jews was disgusting. I don't agree with his view about Judaism, not do I agree with his views regarding homosexuality either.

That doesn't mean I hate him or I think his views have anything to do with his religion. He's intolerant, but it's not his religion that makes him so.

I do not hate Jews, and I resent you telling me I do. As for hating homsosexuals, I am a lesbian. Stop making assumptions.

You are the one making assumptions. If facts are laid on the table and they are ugly, covering them with a pretty cloth of deceit does not make them go away. When the reporter was raped (by muslims) in Egypt, it really troubled you. We are trying to figure out how to openly discuss the "facts" and how to improve our own "infidel" relationship with muslims (since they are such a huge portion of the population). If we walk into any country in the world that is run by islam (and we are not muslim or male), we are in danger. That is not racist, it is not predjudice, it is fact. As a conservative, I would like to see the freedoms offered in this country exported to other countries. I would like to see peaceful societies co-exist. If we are unwilling to "mention" problems, the problems will only get worse. By exposing Shariah for what it is, forces muslims to acknowledge there might be a better way (of government), as demonstrated by riots all over the ME. You claim to be knowledgeable with suffis(?sp). You have claimed they are peaceful. Do you know if they use Shariah? Do you know if women are given equal rights? Help us, don't stop the dialog.

What assumptions do you think I am making? The OP link is anti-islamic propaganda. It condemns the entire religion.

If you were to travel in Malaysia you would as a westerner have no problem even though that is a Muslim majority culture. I would not be afraid to travel in Malaysia.
I completely salute the Egyptian people for throwing Mubarak out and I hope the Libyans do the same to Qadaffi.

I've never heard of Sufi's using Shariah Law, but I am not an expert on Sufism or Shariah Law. Like you, I've only heard of Shariah Law as it is practiced horribly in some Islamic theocracies.

I've known Sufis and was very close to one, who mentored me in counseling back in the mid-eighties. The Sufi who mentored me was a woman. I am a great fan of Sufi poets, and find their spiritual message completely compatible with Buddhism.

Mention all the problems you have with Shariah Law. I have plenty myself. But don't tell me all of Islam is violent and that the Islamic religion is INHERENTLY violent.

I traveled in Muslim areas and did not fear for my safety. I was unnerved however, by not seeing any women out in public unless they were accompanied by men and wearing veils.

You might want to look into this, homosexuality is illegal in Malaysia.

Malaysia once had very strict laws regarding homosexual conduct -- in 1998 the Deputy Prime Minister was removed from power on sodomy charges -- but the attitude regarding sex has shifted as democracy has taken hold. Strictly speaking, homosexual acts are still illegal and punishable by caning and imprisonment for men and imprisonment for women. In practice, however, Malaysia is home to a vibrant gay scene, and even when raids on gay businesses do occur, locals are very rarely targeted. Public acts of sex are still very much illegal, however, and are punishable by caning or imprisonment.

Malaysian Laws for Travelers | Travel Tips - USATODAY.com

 

[High_Gravity]

Sufis are rejected as heretics by many Muslims as well.

 

[High_Gravity]

Specific information on arrests, convictions or charges against lesbians, gays, and/or bisexuals in Malaysia could not be found among the sources consulted by the Research Directorate. However, The Independent reported that in 2003, gay men in Malaysia had been subjected to judicially sanctioned flogging (25 Apr. 2003). A researcher who conducted a study on Muslim homosexuals in Thailand found that the objects of his study, despite mistreatment, fared better than homosexuals in Malaysia (The Nation 19 June 2003). In the words of the researcher, "'n Malaysia, many [homosexuals] are arrested and forced to go through a rehabilitation camp to make them "male" again ... .One Thai-Muslim gay man said he was once hit by a police baton while travelling in Malaysia" (ibid.).

UNHCR | Refworld | Malaysia:

 

[logical4u]

Fine. We're done.

We are not done. You are an Idiot. You have no idea what you are arguing for and against in the same breath. You mis-characterize and argue for pages on your mis-characterization, accusing and pointing fingers, at the same time acknowledging the Threat of World Wide Imposed Sharia Law, when that is tyhe whole point of the Thread.

My problem is not with the Words one uses when they Pray, which is none of my nor your concern Jack Ass. I use that word because I have earned that right, considering the crap you have filled this Thread with. My problem is the Forced imposition of Sharia Law imposed on any unsuspecting body, through Terror, deceit, force of will, in the name of Any God. WTFU. What other Modern Religion do you define as Totalitarian??? The problem with Islam is not that it exists, but that it Must change and learn to respect the Rights of All Human Beings. It was because the diversion from the topic on another Thread that this Thread was started in the first place.

If you expect me to respond to your posts you'll have to leave out the words 'idiot and jack ass'. Unless you're willing to be civil, we are done.

I don't take abuse, even from moderators.

Is that a quote from Sigourney Weaver in Working Woman?

 

[Sky Dancer]

I'll accept Muslims... I only have an issue with those Muslims that seek to impose their faith on others. They can forget that shit. Ain't gonna happen.

I have a problem with ANY faith seeking to impose itself on others. Muslims are not alone in that. Historically, other religions have practiced violent conversion.

In 777 , Charlemagne, a devout Christian, after conquering the Saxon rebels, gave them a choice between baptism and execution. When they refused to convert, he had 4500 of them beheaded in one morning.

How about comparing the numbers killed by each religion in this century Sky Dancer? Or does the truth bother you too much? If you want you can take it a century at a time. You can even compare the numbers killed by islam in the seven hundreds, not that you would do that, you might have to face "truth".

How does bashing those that want to expose truth, help? How does defending an entire religios group (including those that kill and maim for pleasure) seperate those that are crimminal? There is no one here that belives every muslim is evil. We want to figure out how to stop the violence and abuse.

If you want to figure out how to stop the violence in the Middle East that's one thing. Consider all the causes and conditions NOT JUST religion. Consider tribalism. Consider theocracy itself. Consider totalitarian regimes. Don't condemn THE ENTIRE RELIGION.

I am bashing no one. I simply offer an alternative view.

If you want Muslims to take responsibility for their governments then support their efforts to be free. Salute the Egyptians and the Libyans for throwing out dictators. Don't ignore the fact that Muslims are not the only ones who have historically converted by force. Don't ignore that religious violence occurs in the world with other religions than Islam.

Stop trying to make me out as some kind of supporter of violence and abuse because I have known peaceful Muslims and love Sufism. I'm trying to offer some balance to the usual Muslim hate that goes on in these threads.

The climate in our own country is hateful toward Muslims. Why is it you have no concerns about that? Muslim Americans are not committing the violence and abuse that so concern you.

Maybe we ought stay out of the Middle East and not impose western culture on them.