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SCOTUS long ago decided the facts for the American people.
You, if you are interested, can research it, but your opinion is immaterial to anything of worth.
Neo-confederates are so disgustingly pathetic.No, he was not.
He was murdered by a crazy man.
Abraham Lincoln on trial
He was tried, convicted, and executed long ago. And rightly so.
Lincoln got what he deserved.
And history isn't on yours.I think the governments of the seceding states were considered to be in unlawful rebellion against the United States?
In other words, they were still part of the union, so the 13th and 14th Amendments are illegitimate.
Furthermore, where does the Constitution refer to secession as "unlawful rebellion?"
You can't win this argument because the truth isn't on your side.
What measures could Lincoln have taken as a private citizen, or even President-elect?Lincoln addressed the issue of the Corwin Amendment in March of 1861, in his inauguration. At that point, many states had already seceded.Fine, he didn't officially endorse it, but the intention of my post, that Lincoln was willing to compromise on the slavery issue to avoid sucession remains. It's implications are clear.
A little Timeline for you, from the SC Convention forward:
December 20, 1860: South Carolina convention passes ordinance of secession.
December 24, 1860: Mississippi Senator Jefferson Davis introduces a "compromise" proposal which would effectively make slavery a national institution.
December 26, 1860: Major Anderson moves Federal garrison in Charleston, SC, from Fort Moultrie to Fort Sumter.
January 3, 1861: Georgia seizes Fort Pulaski. <---NOTE: THEY SEIZED THE FORT BEFORE THEY SECEDED.
January 4, 1861: Alabama seizes U.S. arsenal at Mount Vernon. <---NOTE: THEY SEIZED THE FORT BEFORE THEY SECEDED.
January 5, 1861: Alabama seizes Forts Morgan and Gaines. <---NOTE: THEY SEIZED THE FORT BEFORE THEY SECEDED.
January 6, 1861: Florida seizes Apalachicola arsenal. <---NOTE: THEY SEIZED THE ARSENAL BEFORE THEY SECEDED.
January 7, 1861: Florida seizes Fort Marion. <---NOTE: THEY SEIZED THE FORT BEFORE THEY SECEDED.
January 8, 1861: Floridians try to seize Fort Barrancas but are chased off.
January 9, 1861: Mississippi secedes.
Star of the West fired on in Charleston Harbor <-- FIRING ON A SHIP - A CLEAR ACT OF WAR
THE STEAMSHIP "MARION." SEIZED BY THE STATE OF SOUTH CAROLINA TO BE CONVERTED INTO A MAN-OF-WAR.
January 10, 1861: Florida secedes.
Louisiana seizes U.S. arsenal at Baton Rouge, as well as Forts Jackson and St. Philip.
January 11, 1861: Alabama secedes.
Louisiana seizes U.S. Marine Hospital.
January 14, 1861: Louisiana seizes Fort Pike. <---NOTE: THEY SEIZED THE FORT BEFORE THEY SECEDED.
January 19, 1861: Georgia secedes.
January 26, 1861: Louisiana secedes.
January 28, 1861: Tennessee Resolutions in favor of Crittenden Compromise offered in Congress.
February 1, 1861: Texas secedes.
February 8, 1861: Provisional Constitution of the Confederacy adopted in Montgomery, AL.
Arkansas seizes U.S. Arsenal at Little Rock.
February 12, 1861: Arkansas seizes U.S. ordnance stores at Napoleon.
February 18, 1861: Jefferson Davis inaugurated as President of the Confederacy.
March 4, 1861: Abraham Lincoln inaugurated as 16th President of the United States.
March 21, 1861: "Cornerstone speech" delivered by Alexander Stephens. (This is where the Confederate V President lays it out clearly: Slavery is the Cornerstone of the Confederacy.)
April 12, 1861: Fort Sumter fired upon by Confederates.
THE WAR OFFICIALLY BEGINS.
Thanks again for providing some interesting trivia which btw, in no way refutes what I am saying. Let me give you a little clue, at his inauguration, it wasnt the first time he addressed attempts to compromise to avoid sucession.
See: Texas v White.Joining the union was contractual, with no statement of secession included.
There is no such thing as a contract that you aren't allowed to break, moron. Check the Supreme Court rulings on that subject if you don't believe it.
SCOTUS long ago decided the facts for the American people.
You, if you are interested, can research it, but your opinion is immaterial to anything of worth.
Comrade Starkey.
Thank you for admitting that there are NO FUCKING FACTS.
That the fascists simply took it upon themselves to arbitrarily to intervene in the economy because they determined that the Article III judiciary was irrelevant.
.
Neo-confederates are so disgustingly pathetic.No, he was not.
He was murdered by a crazy man.
Lincoln got what he deserved.
The only illegitimate arguments here are bripat's.
12 members of the legislature were arrested, not the entire or majority of the legislature.
The passage of the 13th and 14th and 15th Amendments were legitimate.
bripat is wandering in delusion again.
Where does the Constitution say that some states can be barred from voting on Constitutional Amendments?
You FAIL.
SCOTUS long ago decided the facts for the American people.
SCOTUS doesn't decide the facts, moron.
You, if you are interested, can research it, but your opinion is immaterial to anything of worth.
Yeah, right. The opinion of the American people is immaterial to how their government is run. Is that really what you're saying, Fakey?
Mississippi ratified the 13th Amendment in 1995.The only illegitimate arguments here are bripat's.
12 members of the legislature were arrested, not the entire or majority of the legislature.
The passage of the 13th and 14th and 15th Amendments were legitimate.
bripat is wandering in delusion again.
Where does the Constitution say that some states can be barred from voting on Constitutional Amendments?
You FAIL.
Those states were in rebellion against the union, and therefore had forfeited their rights to vote on any amendments.
Indicently, most of those states did ratify those amendments as a condition of rejoining the union. Of course, that was because all the dumb crackers who fought for the Confederates were barred from voting and freed slaved could vote at that point.
Whooops.
Side note:Of course, that was because all the dumb crackers who fought for the Confederates were barred from voting and freed slaved could vote at that point.
Whooops.
Mississippi ratified the 13th Amendment in 1995.Where does the Constitution say that some states can be barred from voting on Constitutional Amendments?
You FAIL.
Those states were in rebellion against the union, and therefore had forfeited their rights to vote on any amendments.
Indicently, most of those states did ratify those amendments as a condition of rejoining the union. Of course, that was because all the dumb crackers who fought for the Confederates were barred from voting and freed slaved could vote at that point.
Whooops.
Kentucky ratified the 14th in 2003.
I shit you not.
Ratification of Constitutional Amendments - The U.S. Constitution Online - USConstitution.net
I thought this a good time to start this thread, seeing that Hollywood is about to come out with a movie about Lincoln and all this talk about states wanting to secede. Also, Thanksgiving is upon us and Lincoln was the one who declared it a national holiday. For you see, Lincoln thought that creating a national holiday, that was only celebrated by the North, would help bring the nation together if we all celebrated it together.
Most of us have been spoon fed an image of Lincoln. For most of us, he stands out as one of America's greatest presidents, if not the best of the best. However, there are opposing view on this.
What Caused the Civil War Slavery States Rights Secession
President Licoln believed or thought that secession was illegal and strongly opposed it and obstructed the US Supreme Court convening and rendering a decision regarding whether or not any state had the right to secede. His opponent was none other than Cheif Justice Roger B. Taney who swore Lincoln into office. Tany ruled that Lilncoln's actions were illegal, criminal, and unconstitutional in his pursuit to prevent states from leaving the union.
Here are the charges.
1. Violation of the Constitution and his oath of office by invading and waging war against states that had legally and democratically withdrawn their consent from his government, inaugurating one of the cruelest wars in recent history.
2. Subverting the duly constituted governments of states that had not left the Union, thereby subverting their constitutional right to "republican form of government".
3. Raising troops without approval from Congress and expending funds without appropriation.
4. Suspending the writ of habeas Corpus and interfering with the press without due process, imprisoning thousands of citizens without charge or trial, and closing courts by military force where no hostilities were ocurring.
5. Corrupting the currency by manipulations and paper swindles unheard of in US history.
6. Fraud and corruption by appointees and contractors with his knowledge and connivance.
7. Continuing the war by raising ever larger bodies of troops by conscription and hiring of foreign merceneries and refusing to negotiate in good faith for an end to hostilities.
8. Confiscation of millions of dollars of civilian property by his agents in the South, esecially cotton, wihtout legal proceedings.
9. Waging war against women, children, civilians, and civilian property as the matter of policy, e.g. Sherman's March.
Funny how we were never taught this stuff in school, isn't it?
To begin the debate, I will debunk the notion that Licoln faught the war just to render slavery a thing of the past. After all, Licoln supported the Corwin Amendment to be added to the Constitution. It had passed Congress and it protected slavery in those states where it already existed. A few weeks before the war, Licoln went so far as to pen a letter to every governor in the South asking for their support in ratifying the Corwin Amendment as a means to avoid seccession. Licoln was obviously willing to allow slavery to continue, just to keep the union together. If so, why then did the South proceed in their plans to secede?
In short, was the Civil war really about slavery? It seems to me that the power and wealth that the South had to offer the northern states was enough to warrant a war that cost the union about 3% of it's population as dead, but why then was the South so determined to leave the union, especially in light of the fact that they apparently did not need to end slavery as a price for staying in the union?
As for today, the question is still being asked. Is it illegal to secede? If so, bring your best arugments to defend your position. More importantly, however, if it is illegal then should SCOTUS not be included on determing the Constitutionality of such an act?
And history isn't on yours.I think the governments of the seceding states were considered to be in unlawful rebellion against the United States?
In other words, they were still part of the union, so the 13th and 14th Amendments are illegitimate.
Furthermore, where does the Constitution refer to secession as "unlawful rebellion?"
You can't win this argument because the truth isn't on your side.
See: Texas v White.Joining the union was contractual, with no statement of secession included.
There is no such thing as a contract that you aren't allowed to break, moron. Check the Supreme Court rulings on that subject if you don't believe it.
You can get started with this:
"When, therefore, Texas became one of the United States, she entered into an indissoluble relation. All the obligations of perpetual union, and all the guaranties of republican government in the Union, attached at once to the State. The act which consummated her admission into the Union was something more than a compact; it was the incorporation of a new member into the political body.
And it was final.
The union between Texas and the other States was as complete, as perpetual, and as indissoluble as the union between the original States. There was no place for reconsideration or revocation, except through revolution or through consent of the States."
Texas-v-White, 74 U.S.
I thought this a good time to start this thread, seeing that Hollywood is about to come out with a movie about Lincoln and all this talk about states wanting to secede. Also, Thanksgiving is upon us and Lincoln was the one who declared it a national holiday. For you see, Lincoln thought that creating a national holiday, that was only celebrated by the North, would help bring the nation together if we all celebrated it together.
Most of us have been spoon fed an image of Lincoln. For most of us, he stands out as one of America's greatest presidents, if not the best of the best. However, there are opposing view on this.
What Caused the Civil War Slavery States Rights Secession
President Licoln believed or thought that secession was illegal and strongly opposed it and obstructed the US Supreme Court convening and rendering a decision regarding whether or not any state had the right to secede. His opponent was none other than Cheif Justice Roger B. Taney who swore Lincoln into office. Tany ruled that Lilncoln's actions were illegal, criminal, and unconstitutional in his pursuit to prevent states from leaving the union.
Here are the charges.
1. Violation of the Constitution and his oath of office by invading and waging war against states that had legally and democratically withdrawn their consent from his government, inaugurating one of the cruelest wars in recent history.
2. Subverting the duly constituted governments of states that had not left the Union, thereby subverting their constitutional right to "republican form of government".
3. Raising troops without approval from Congress and expending funds without appropriation.
4. Suspending the writ of habeas Corpus and interfering with the press without due process, imprisoning thousands of citizens without charge or trial, and closing courts by military force where no hostilities were ocurring.
5. Corrupting the currency by manipulations and paper swindles unheard of in US history.
6. Fraud and corruption by appointees and contractors with his knowledge and connivance.
7. Continuing the war by raising ever larger bodies of troops by conscription and hiring of foreign merceneries and refusing to negotiate in good faith for an end to hostilities.
8. Confiscation of millions of dollars of civilian property by his agents in the South, esecially cotton, wihtout legal proceedings.
9. Waging war against women, children, civilians, and civilian property as the matter of policy, e.g. Sherman's March.
Funny how we were never taught this stuff in school, isn't it?
To begin the debate, I will debunk the notion that Licoln faught the war just to render slavery a thing of the past. After all, Licoln supported the Corwin Amendment to be added to the Constitution. It had passed Congress and it protected slavery in those states where it already existed. A few weeks before the war, Licoln went so far as to pen a letter to every governor in the South asking for their support in ratifying the Corwin Amendment as a means to avoid seccession. Licoln was obviously willing to allow slavery to continue, just to keep the union together. If so, why then did the South proceed in their plans to secede?
In short, was the Civil war really about slavery? It seems to me that the power and wealth that the South had to offer the northern states was enough to warrant a war that cost the union about 3% of it's population as dead, but why then was the South so determined to leave the union, especially in light of the fact that they apparently did not need to end slavery as a price for staying in the union?
As for today, the question is still being asked. Is it illegal to secede? If so, bring your best arugments to defend your position. More importantly, however, if it is illegal then should SCOTUS not be included on determing the Constitutionality of such an act?
Where does the Constitution say that some states can be barred from voting on Constitutional Amendments?
You FAIL.
Those states were in rebellion against the union, and therefore had forfeited their rights to vote on any amendments.
Indicently, most of those states did ratify those amendments as a condition of rejoining the union. Of course, that was because all the dumb crackers who fought for the Confederates were barred from voting and freed slaved could vote at that point.
Whooops.
