Abraham? Really?

[Indeependent]

He had a concubine. Actually two if you count hagar. Although some scholars have said they were the same person.
He married his sister
He was subordinate to his sister wife
Made an illegitimate child and kicked him out
Lied to his son that he was going to kill him
He was obviously mentally ill. With some incest and sins in there.
My point is, how did this crazy person become the patriarch of Judaism, Christianity and Islam?
Apparently, despite all of these moral flaws and repugnant behavior, he was still chosen by god for loyalty. This "moral" God was able to look past all of his sins because he was willing to kill his child? WTF
And people say atheists have no morals? Lol

I like you; I really do.
You haven't a clue in this regard.
Stop reading atheist sites for Bible facts.

I dont read that horseshit. All that stuff is in the bible, is it not?

Uh...no.

ummm ok?

All good with me.

 

[Indeependent]

He had a concubine. Actually two if you count hagar. Although some scholars have said they were the same person.
He married his sister
He was subordinate to his sister wife
Made an illegitimate child and kicked him out
Lied to his son that he was going to kill him
He was obviously mentally ill. With some incest and sins in there.
My point is, how did this crazy person become the patriarch of Judaism, Christianity and Islam?
Apparently, despite all of these moral flaws and repugnant behavior, he was still chosen by god for loyalty. This "moral" God was able to look past all of his sins because he was willing to kill his child? WTF
And people say atheists have no morals? Lol

Actually it was his half sister. He was allowed to have a concubine in those days. In fact his wife Sarah suggested it so the can have a baby. G-D told him to kill his son as a test.

Aside from this I'm sure he did make mistakes. All humans make mistakes.

How was he subordinate to his sister's wife?

No lol. I meant his wife that was his sister. She told him to get rid of her and his illigitimate son and thats what he did.

Uh...no.

Then take it up with Genesis...

I've been studying Genesis for about 35 years.

 

[TNHarley]

Next someone will tell me there was no desert in Beersheba lol

 

[Indeependent]

Next someone will tell me there was no desert in Beersheba lol

Show me the verses.

 

[TNHarley]

He had a concubine. Actually two if you count hagar. Although some scholars have said they were the same person.
He married his sister
He was subordinate to his sister wife
Made an illegitimate child and kicked him out
Lied to his son that he was going to kill him
He was obviously mentally ill. With some incest and sins in there.
My point is, how did this crazy person become the patriarch of Judaism, Christianity and Islam?
Apparently, despite all of these moral flaws and repugnant behavior, he was still chosen by god for loyalty. This "moral" God was able to look past all of his sins because he was willing to kill his child? WTF
And people say atheists have no morals? Lol

Actually it was his half sister. He was allowed to have a concubine in those days. In fact his wife Sarah suggested it so the can have a baby. G-D told him to kill his son as a test.

Aside from this I'm sure he did make mistakes. All humans make mistakes.

How was he subordinate to his sister's wife?

No lol. I meant his wife that was his sister. She told him to get rid of her and his illigitimate son and thats what he did.

Uh...no.

Then take it up with Genesis...

I've been studying Genesis for about 35 years.

genesis 21 8-12 or 13 doesnt ring a bell?

 

[Indeependent]

Actually it was his half sister. He was allowed to have a concubine in those days. In fact his wife Sarah suggested it so the can have a baby. G-D told him to kill his son as a test.

Aside from this I'm sure he did make mistakes. All humans make mistakes.

How was he subordinate to his sister's wife?

No lol. I meant his wife that was his sister. She told him to get rid of her and his illigitimate son and thats what he did.

Uh...no.

Then take it up with Genesis...

I've been studying Genesis for about 35 years.

genesis 21 8-12 or 13 doesnt ring a bell?

Why not start from 21:1?

 

[featherlite]

He had a concubine. Actually two if you count hagar. Although some scholars have said they were the same person.
He married his sister
He was subordinate to his sister wife
Made an illegitimate child and kicked him out
Lied to his son that he was going to kill him
He was obviously mentally ill. With some incest and sins in there.
My point is, how did this crazy person become the patriarch of Judaism, Christianity and Islam?
Apparently, despite all of these moral flaws and repugnant behavior, he was still chosen by god for loyalty. This "moral" God was able to look past all of his sins because he was willing to kill his child? WTF
And people say atheists have no morals? Lol

You really twisted this into a pretzel.
Abraham for the most part led a very faithful life. He was also human & began not trusting Gods promises. Thats when he took control and went with Hagar. He doubted Gods promises.
Everything about that story shows Gods grace.

How did i twist it? Thats what happened! There is no twisting. Thats just MY opinion. Sorry if me thinking incest and sex outside of marriage isnt "faithful"..

You have a right to your opinion. =)
My point was you honed in on his mistakes ( and ya they were biggies) but ignored the rest of his life and how those mistakes turned around for each of them.

 

[TNHarley]

No lol. I meant his wife that was his sister. She told him to get rid of her and his illigitimate son and thats what he did.

Uh...no.

Then take it up with Genesis...

I've been studying Genesis for about 35 years.

genesis 21 8-12 or 13 doesnt ring a bell?

Why not start from 21:1?

Because it isnt relevant to this

 

[TNHarley]

He had a concubine. Actually two if you count hagar. Although some scholars have said they were the same person.
He married his sister
He was subordinate to his sister wife
Made an illegitimate child and kicked him out
Lied to his son that he was going to kill him
He was obviously mentally ill. With some incest and sins in there.
My point is, how did this crazy person become the patriarch of Judaism, Christianity and Islam?
Apparently, despite all of these moral flaws and repugnant behavior, he was still chosen by god for loyalty. This "moral" God was able to look past all of his sins because he was willing to kill his child? WTF
And people say atheists have no morals? Lol

You really twisted this into a pretzel.
Abraham for the most part led a very faithful life. He was also human & began not trusting Gods promises. Thats when he took control and went with Hagar. He doubted Gods promises.
Everything about that story shows Gods grace.

How did i twist it? Thats what happened! There is no twisting. Thats just MY opinion. Sorry if me thinking incest and sex outside of marriage isnt "faithful"..

You have a right to your opinion. =)
My point was you honed in on his mistakes ( and ya they were biggies) but ignored the rest of his life and how those mistakes turned around for each of them.

Why wouldnt i? That was the point. Even bad people do good things.

 

[Weatherman2020]

He had a concubine. Actually two if you count hagar. Although some scholars have said they were the same person.
He married his sister
He was subordinate to his sister wife
Made an illegitimate child and kicked him out
Lied to his son that he was going to kill him
He was obviously mentally ill. With some incest and sins in there.
My point is, how did this crazy person become the patriarch of Judaism, Christianity and Islam?
Apparently, despite all of these moral flaws and repugnant behavior, he was still chosen by god for loyalty. This "moral" God was able to look past all of his sins because he was willing to kill his child? WTF
And people say atheists have no morals? Lol

Actually it was his half sister. He was allowed to have a concubine in those days. In fact his wife Sarah suggested it so the can have a baby. G-D told him to kill his son as a test.

Aside from this I'm sure he did make mistakes. All humans make mistakes.

How was he subordinate to his sister's wife?

No lol. I meant his wife that was his sister. She told him to get rid of her and his illigitimate son and thats what he did.

Uh...no.

Then take it up with Genesis...

You have to answer one question. Did the events occur?

If you believe they didn't, why create such a story?

First thing every good detective looks for is motive.

 

[TNHarley]

He had a concubine. Actually two if you count hagar. Although some scholars have said they were the same person.
He married his sister
He was subordinate to his sister wife
Made an illegitimate child and kicked him out
Lied to his son that he was going to kill him
He was obviously mentally ill. With some incest and sins in there.
My point is, how did this crazy person become the patriarch of Judaism, Christianity and Islam?
Apparently, despite all of these moral flaws and repugnant behavior, he was still chosen by god for loyalty. This "moral" God was able to look past all of his sins because he was willing to kill his child? WTF
And people say atheists have no morals? Lol

Actually it was his half sister. He was allowed to have a concubine in those days. In fact his wife Sarah suggested it so the can have a baby. G-D told him to kill his son as a test.

Aside from this I'm sure he did make mistakes. All humans make mistakes.

How was he subordinate to his sister's wife?

No lol. I meant his wife that was his sister. She told him to get rid of her and his illigitimate son and thats what he did.

Uh...no.

Then take it up with Genesis...

You have to answer one question. Did the events occur?

If you believe they didn't, why create such a story?

First thing every good detective looks for is motive.

Hell idk. No one does... But im not going to pick and choose what parts of the bible to play along with because there are only some i want to believe in.

 

[featherlite]

He had a concubine. Actually two if you count hagar. Although some scholars have said they were the same person.
He married his sister
He was subordinate to his sister wife
Made an illegitimate child and kicked him out
Lied to his son that he was going to kill him
He was obviously mentally ill. With some incest and sins in there.
My point is, how did this crazy person become the patriarch of Judaism, Christianity and Islam?
Apparently, despite all of these moral flaws and repugnant behavior, he was still chosen by god for loyalty. This "moral" God was able to look past all of his sins because he was willing to kill his child? WTF
And people say atheists have no morals? Lol

You really twisted this into a pretzel.
Abraham for the most part led a very faithful life. He was also human & began not trusting Gods promises. Thats when he took control and went with Hagar. He doubted Gods promises.
Everything about that story shows Gods grace.

How did i twist it? Thats what happened! There is no twisting. Thats just MY opinion. Sorry if me thinking incest and sex outside of marriage isnt "faithful"..

You have a right to your opinion. =)
My point was you honed in on his mistakes ( and ya they were biggies) but ignored the rest of his life and how those mistakes turned around for each of them.

Why wouldnt i? That was the point. Even bad people do good things.

Putting your faith and trust in God can turn a situation around in incredible ways. Its not fate or happenstance.
He can turn it around in ways we couldn't and wouldn't have planned.

 

[Weatherman2020]

Actually it was his half sister. He was allowed to have a concubine in those days. In fact his wife Sarah suggested it so the can have a baby. G-D told him to kill his son as a test.

Aside from this I'm sure he did make mistakes. All humans make mistakes.

How was he subordinate to his sister's wife?

No lol. I meant his wife that was his sister. She told him to get rid of her and his illigitimate son and thats what he did.

Uh...no.

Then take it up with Genesis...

You have to answer one question. Did the events occur?

If you believe they didn't, why create such a story?

First thing every good detective looks for is motive.

Hell idk. No one does... But im not going to pick and choose what parts of the bible to play along with because there are only some i want to believe in.

Agnostic is derived from the word ignorant. That's not a put down, and I was there once. But face it, it's the ultimate issue in life so it needed an answer so I did a lot of homework to get to a yes/no answer. Hinduism, Islam, Judaism, Mormonism, you name it.

In my opinion the religious texts of any religion are 100% accurate or they are totally wrong, you can't pick and choose.

Bottom line is everyone from Adam to John has flaws detailed for us to see and acts by people that are just plain evil and misguided. Abraham is not a solitary figure of a roller coaster lifestyle. So what I'm saying is do your homework and get an answer. Apologetics websites are good at answering questions and clarifying things that don't initially make sense. Personally I like this one.

carm |

 

[TNHarley]

No lol. I meant his wife that was his sister. She told him to get rid of her and his illigitimate son and thats what he did.

Uh...no.

Then take it up with Genesis...

You have to answer one question. Did the events occur?

If you believe they didn't, why create such a story?

First thing every good detective looks for is motive.

Hell idk. No one does... But im not going to pick and choose what parts of the bible to play along with because there are only some i want to believe in.

Agnostic is derived from the word ignorant. That's not a put down, and I was there once. But face it, it's the ultimate issue in life so it needed an answer so I did a lot of homework to get to a yes/no answer. Hinduism, Islam, Judaism, Mormonism, you name it.

In my opinion the religious texts of any religion are 100% accurate or they are totally wrong, you can't pick and choose.

Bottom line is everyone from Adam to John has flaws detailed for us to see and acts by people that are just plain evil and misguided. Abraham is not a solitary figure of a roller coaster lifestyle. So what I'm saying is do your homework and get an answer. Apologetics websites are good at answering questions and clarifying things that don't initially make sense. Personally I like this one.

carm |

Well lol..
I just cant get on board with man made religion man.. I have tried. But i question shit too much. I am skeptical as hell.
I dont necessarily doubt a supreme being. I think if something was as smart and powerful to create all this, why would he want complete servitude or you get punished? I wouldnt think something like that would want worship. I find many inconsistencies in man made religion. Well, mostly the Abrahamic ones because those are what i am most interested in.
Tyranny, murder, genocide etc isnt something i can get on board with..

 

[TNHarley]

Here is a question for you guys :
If Abraham had so many sins, why would God forgive him and not Sodom? Just because of his loyalty?
Hek, didnt he send Abraham to judge Sodom for him? Something about "find 10 good people"
Maybe that was someone else?

 

[Weatherman2020]

Uh...no.

Then take it up with Genesis...

You have to answer one question. Did the events occur?

If you believe they didn't, why create such a story?

First thing every good detective looks for is motive.

Hell idk. No one does... But im not going to pick and choose what parts of the bible to play along with because there are only some i want to believe in.

Agnostic is derived from the word ignorant. That's not a put down, and I was there once. But face it, it's the ultimate issue in life so it needed an answer so I did a lot of homework to get to a yes/no answer. Hinduism, Islam, Judaism, Mormonism, you name it.

In my opinion the religious texts of any religion are 100% accurate or they are totally wrong, you can't pick and choose.

Bottom line is everyone from Adam to John has flaws detailed for us to see and acts by people that are just plain evil and misguided. Abraham is not a solitary figure of a roller coaster lifestyle. So what I'm saying is do your homework and get an answer. Apologetics websites are good at answering questions and clarifying things that don't initially make sense. Personally I like this one.

carm |

Well lol..
I just cant get on board with man made religion man.. I have tried. But i question shit too much. I am skeptical as hell.
I dont necessarily doubt a supreme being. I think if something was as smart and powerful to create all this, why would he want complete servitude or you get punished? I wouldnt think something like that would want worship. I find many inconsistencies in man made religion. Well, mostly the Abrahamic ones because those are what i am most interested in.
Tyranny, murder, genocide etc isnt something i can get on board with..

You say Manmade. Again, what's the motive of painting everyone into such a bad light? Again, no motive is there. Now look at the people the religion produces. Not individuals, the groups as a whole. Makes it pretty obvious what's the religion with the one true God.

 

[Weatherman2020]

Here is a question for you guys :
If Abraham had so many sins, why would God forgive him and not Sodom? Just because of his loyalty?
Hek, didnt he send Abraham to judge Sodom for him? Something about "find 10 good people"
Maybe that was someone else?

Because one repents, the other does not. Read Genesis 19 and educate yourself. FYI - to know them is not sitting down and talking over a beer.

 

[TNHarley]

Then take it up with Genesis...

You have to answer one question. Did the events occur?

If you believe they didn't, why create such a story?

First thing every good detective looks for is motive.

Hell idk. No one does... But im not going to pick and choose what parts of the bible to play along with because there are only some i want to believe in.

Agnostic is derived from the word ignorant. That's not a put down, and I was there once. But face it, it's the ultimate issue in life so it needed an answer so I did a lot of homework to get to a yes/no answer. Hinduism, Islam, Judaism, Mormonism, you name it.

In my opinion the religious texts of any religion are 100% accurate or they are totally wrong, you can't pick and choose.

Bottom line is everyone from Adam to John has flaws detailed for us to see and acts by people that are just plain evil and misguided. Abraham is not a solitary figure of a roller coaster lifestyle. So what I'm saying is do your homework and get an answer. Apologetics websites are good at answering questions and clarifying things that don't initially make sense. Personally I like this one.

carm |

Well lol..
I just cant get on board with man made religion man.. I have tried. But i question shit too much. I am skeptical as hell.
I dont necessarily doubt a supreme being. I think if something was as smart and powerful to create all this, why would he want complete servitude or you get punished? I wouldnt think something like that would want worship. I find many inconsistencies in man made religion. Well, mostly the Abrahamic ones because those are what i am most interested in.
Tyranny, murder, genocide etc isnt something i can get on board with..

You say Manmade. Again, what's the motive of painting everyone into such a bad light? Again, no motive is there. Now look at the people the religion produces. Not individuals, the groups as a whole. Makes it pretty obvious what's the religion with the one true God.

Thats just the way i see it.
I say that because they are man made.

 

[Weatherman2020]

You have to answer one question. Did the events occur?

If you believe they didn't, why create such a story?

First thing every good detective looks for is motive.

Hell idk. No one does... But im not going to pick and choose what parts of the bible to play along with because there are only some i want to believe in.

Agnostic is derived from the word ignorant. That's not a put down, and I was there once. But face it, it's the ultimate issue in life so it needed an answer so I did a lot of homework to get to a yes/no answer. Hinduism, Islam, Judaism, Mormonism, you name it.

In my opinion the religious texts of any religion are 100% accurate or they are totally wrong, you can't pick and choose.

Bottom line is everyone from Adam to John has flaws detailed for us to see and acts by people that are just plain evil and misguided. Abraham is not a solitary figure of a roller coaster lifestyle. So what I'm saying is do your homework and get an answer. Apologetics websites are good at answering questions and clarifying things that don't initially make sense. Personally I like this one.

carm |

Well lol..
I just cant get on board with man made religion man.. I have tried. But i question shit too much. I am skeptical as hell.
I dont necessarily doubt a supreme being. I think if something was as smart and powerful to create all this, why would he want complete servitude or you get punished? I wouldnt think something like that would want worship. I find many inconsistencies in man made religion. Well, mostly the Abrahamic ones because those are what i am most interested in.
Tyranny, murder, genocide etc isnt something i can get on board with..

You say Manmade. Again, what's the motive of painting everyone into such a bad light? Again, no motive is there. Now look at the people the religion produces. Not individuals, the groups as a whole. Makes it pretty obvious what's the religion with the one true God.

Thats just the way i see it.
I say that because they are man made.

And motive was?

And before you answer, the guy dying on the cross next to Jesus went to Paradise when he became a believer while dying.

 

[TNHarley]

Hell idk. No one does... But im not going to pick and choose what parts of the bible to play along with because there are only some i want to believe in.

Agnostic is derived from the word ignorant. That's not a put down, and I was there once. But face it, it's the ultimate issue in life so it needed an answer so I did a lot of homework to get to a yes/no answer. Hinduism, Islam, Judaism, Mormonism, you name it.

In my opinion the religious texts of any religion are 100% accurate or they are totally wrong, you can't pick and choose.

Bottom line is everyone from Adam to John has flaws detailed for us to see and acts by people that are just plain evil and misguided. Abraham is not a solitary figure of a roller coaster lifestyle. So what I'm saying is do your homework and get an answer. Apologetics websites are good at answering questions and clarifying things that don't initially make sense. Personally I like this one.

carm |

Well lol..
I just cant get on board with man made religion man.. I have tried. But i question shit too much. I am skeptical as hell.
I dont necessarily doubt a supreme being. I think if something was as smart and powerful to create all this, why would he want complete servitude or you get punished? I wouldnt think something like that would want worship. I find many inconsistencies in man made religion. Well, mostly the Abrahamic ones because those are what i am most interested in.
Tyranny, murder, genocide etc isnt something i can get on board with..

You say Manmade. Again, what's the motive of painting everyone into such a bad light? Again, no motive is there. Now look at the people the religion produces. Not individuals, the groups as a whole. Makes it pretty obvious what's the religion with the one true God.

Thats just the way i see it.
I say that because they are man made.

And motive was?

And before you answer, the guy dying on the cross next to Jesus went to Paradise when he became a believer while dying.

Motive for making the religion?