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Resolution 181, following international law, states that all Palestinian citizens who normally live in what becomes the Jewish state will be citizens of that state.RE: All The News Anti-Israel Posters Will Not Read Or Discuss
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
"Clean up after???"
(COMMENT)Why is it their job to clean up after Israel?As for the refugees; why were they not assimilated into wherever?
Show me where it says that the Israeli's must (have a duty) to attend the refugees. Where is this duty spelled out?
Most Respectfully,
R
(COMMENT)Israel bombs the crap out of thousands of civilians and when the Palestinians kick up a little sand with a bottle rocket it's OMG they are targeting civilians.
Double standards much?
BTW, those rockets land in villages that the Palestinians were expelled from in 1948.
(COMMENT)The Palestinians do not ask for others to provide anything.• Fundamentally, positive rights require others to provide you with either a good or service.
The "right of return" for Arabs into Israel has been done already by those Israel decided to allow back. Some have turned to murdering Jews in Israel.RE: All The News Anti-Israel Posters Will Not Read Or Discuss
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
You are asking the Israelis to put their sovereignty and territorial integrity at risk.
(COMMENT)The Palestinians do not ask for others to provide anything.• Fundamentally, positive rights require others to provide you with either a good or service.
The tension and mistrust between the Hostile Arab Palestinian (HoAP) and the Israelis, that has accumulated over the decades of violence have tainted and contaminated any attempt at a fair and just negotiation or settlement of disputes.
There is (absolutely) no reasonable expectation that the "Right of Return" (or anything remotely like it) could happen happen for several generations. Until the semior members of government come from a family that has no previous experience with the Arab-Israeli Conflict. And the parents of the prodigy of that generation haven't even been born yet.
Most Respectfully,
R
So says Israel.RE: All The News Anti-Israel Posters Will Not Read Or Discuss
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
You get this wrong every. .... . single. ... .time!
(COMMENT)Israel bombs the crap out of thousands of civilians and when the Palestinians kick up a little sand with a bottle rocket it's OMG they are targeting civilians.
Double standards much?
BTW, those rockets land in villages that the Palestinians were expelled from in 1948.
It is not the intent of Israeli strikes to kill civilian or protected persons.
Gaza Civilians (and maybe a few protected persons) are casualties as a resultant product of the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) violating:
◈ Rule 23. Each party to the conflict must, to the extent feasible, avoid locating military objectives within or near densely populated areas.
◈ Rule 24. Each party to the conflict must, to the extent feasible, remove civilian persons and objects under its control from the vicinity of military objectives.
◈ Rule 59. The improper use of the distinctive emblems of the Geneva Conventions is prohibited.
◈ Rule 97. The use of human shields is prohibited.
You cannot intentionally put civilians (or protected persons) in harm's way. And HAMAS does this every single day; with depraved indifference to life.
Most Respectfully,
R
(COMMENT)Resolution 181, following international law, states that all Palestinian citizens who normally live in what becomes the Jewish state will be citizens of that state.
Those "refugees" are Israeli citizens.
The real issue is not which sources either one of us reads.Where have I Broadbrushed it, when I constantly give examples of Arabs who do live and peace with Jews and want to live in peace with Israel, all the Arabs who get to come to work in Israel, or study in Israel, or get medical help in Israel?And that is what the facts on the ground. It doesn't matter to Israel who it kills. Men, women, old people, children, all seem to be "legitimate" targets.
Palestine has no army. They are all civilians. The only time a civilian can be classified as a militant is when he is actively engaged in armed conflict. The vast majority of Palestinians killed are unarmed.
I disagree with that assessment...I do think most of the time Israel IS exceedingly careful about targets and minimizing collateral damage - much more so I might add than Saudi Arabia in Yemen, or Bashee and Russia in Syria to give examples.
While civilians DO at times get targeted, and legitimate journalists...I think too often investigations tend to go easy on the killers - targeting civilians is standard practice unless those civilians are actively breeching security (ie border control) and no other measures are working. On the other hand, the Palestinian militants DO have a verifiable and undeniable record of TARGETING civilians - you really can't ignore that.NO ONE on these threads, on the Israeli Team has "broad brushed" the entire Arab population living in Gaza and in Judea and Samaria.RE: All The News Anti-Israel Posters Will Not Read Or Discuss
⁜→ Coyote, et al,
With any large culture or segment of people, there are subsets that one or more show definite separate and distinct attributes and characteristics. The Jewish "Settlers" of the West Bank fall into this category with malevolent and unkindly attributes and definite negative characteristics.
(COMMENT)
I do not think that there is any question, that the vast majority for all Israelis (Jewish or otherwise) find the behavior of these Jewish "Settlers" of the West Bank to be abhorrent and unacceptable; → maybe even a bit ashamed by it. And this shame may be the reason that the Israelis don't talk about them. They want to disassociate themselves for this poorly disciplined aspect of their society.
Most Respectfully,
R
I absolutely agree and that is also why I think it is important NOT to broadbrush an entire people by the actions of some. I think by and large Israel is far more diverse than is recognized outside of Israel and but the settler population represents a very powerful political voice and that is problematic for long term resolutions.
Your accusations have NO merit at all.
Good lord - you absolutely do. I see it all the time.
And the Jewish settlers are only defending their rights to BE in Judea and Samaria were ALL Jews were expelled from in 1948.
Oh. I see. Then I guess we can apply the same logic to Palestinian violence..."they are only defending their rights"? You have a lot in common with Tinmoore on this.
Peace is the long term solution. But that is something neither Hamas nor the PA/PLO/Fatah want. Never did and never will.
As long as they follow in Mohammad's example of Waiting, and Waiting, until they get what they want, as he did, there will not be Peace with those Arab leaders. They will not allow it.
Many Arabs in those areas want peace with Israel. But they are few and powerless.
Hamas is also operating in Judea and Samaria and in Israel as well.
What peace and resolution can come from their insistence in teaching all Arabs that the Jews stole Muslim land and that Jews have no right to live?
And what do Jews learn...about Palestinians? Both sides have significant problems here...Are Palestinian Textbooks Actually Any Worse Than Israeli Textbooks?
None.
First, that ideology needs to go. Short of that, the Arabs need to be definitely defeated and their ability to terrorize and kill at will put to an end.
Iran, Qatar, the EU and others are also a problem because they all feed the Arab leaders with money for more ways to attack Israel and the Jews who live there and in area C.
Come up with some ideas on how to put an end to the ideology, the Charters which call for the destruction of Israel and the death of all Jews, and the endless money and weapons going to Hamas and other terrorists and we will start getting somewhere, even if the Arabs (Arab League) will never agree to it.
Israel and the Arab states need to sit down and work out solutions. Then bring in the Palestinians. There is no defined leadership to work with. Ideology? Well here you are broadbrushing.
So, you are denying that because all Jews were expelled from their homes in 1948 from that area, that the Jews who now live there would be a bit, if not a lot apprehensive with all the violence coming their way and the endless failures at making the PA come to even discuss a Peace Treaty?
They are supposed to just sit there and take it, I guess.
I really do not know of many First Nation tribes in the Americas, who simply stood by and allowed themselves to be attacked and their lands just taken by the Europeans whether they were doing it by government consent or by their own will, do you?
The Palestinians not only THINK that they have the right to attack Jews, it is written in the PLO charter that they should do so. As I said before, not all Arabs want to attack Jews, many want a normal life, a decent job and salary and that is why there are thousands of them working not only in Israel but in the villages in Judea and Samaria, DESPITE Habbas having attempted to forbid them from doing so a few times. Why would he do that?
And do show me exactly in which Israeli textbooks Jews are being taught that the Arabs are the enemy and inciting them to kill the Arabs anywhere they find them?
Are you aware that many Arab schools in Israel are now opting for the Israeli curriculum which does not teach their children that the Jews are evil and to go out and kill them?
And I will say this ONE MORE TIME.
You are reading mostly, if not ONLY anti Israel sources. I can tell it. Most of us, if not all of us can tell that that is where you get all of your information and all of your links where nothing but bad things about Israeli Jews and policies are coming from. The one about the textbooks is a clear example of it.
When you start reading both sources and then making an actual conclusion from both, and not just one source, you may start to come to see the issues as they really have been and as they really are, and WHY there is no hope for a Peace Treaty with the PA or Hamas with their insistence in following Mohammad's ideology called Islam = Submission.
They want, and will only accept Submission from the Jewish people, exactly as they had it for 1300 years before Israel came to be in 1948.
I read and use mainstream sources most of the time - Israeli newspapers, Haaretz, Times etc. What sources do you use? I think you have your own anti-Palestinian bias here and frankly it's pretty much clear in your statement:
"...following Mohammad's ideology called Islam = Submission" a frequently used anti-muslim canard.
Submission to God. Not unlike Christianity - submission to God and God will take care of you.
RE: All The News Anti-Israel Posters Will Not Read Or Discuss
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
Is this a slip-up here?
(COMMENT)Resolution 181, following international law, states that all Palestinian citizens who normally live in what becomes the Jewish state will be citizens of that state.
Those "refugees" are Israeli citizens.
The Arab Palestinians "rejected" A/RES/181 (II) and went into a state of violence when it was past.
You can't have it both ways. The Arab Palestinians can't reject it and then circle back around and try to activate a minor clause in their defense.
And besides, A/RES/181(II) actually says:
11. Citizenship. All the residents shall become ipso facto citizens of the City of Jerusalem unless they opt for citizenship of the State of which they have been citizens or, if Arabs or Jews, have filed notice of intention to become citizens of the Arab or Jewish State respectively, according to part I, section B, paragraph 9, of this plan.
Your paraphrasing of the Citizenship Clause has a lot to be desired. I just wonder how many of the Arab Palestinians that (actually) filed a "notice of intention to become citizens" are still alive today?
Most Respectfully,
R
RE: All The News Anti-Israel Posters Will Not Read Or Discuss
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
Is this a slip-up here?
(COMMENT)Resolution 181, following international law, states that all Palestinian citizens who normally live in what becomes the Jewish state will be citizens of that state.
Those "refugees" are Israeli citizens.
The Arab Palestinians "rejected" A/RES/181 (II) and went into a state of violence when it was past.
You can't have it both ways. The Arab Palestinians can't reject it and then circle back around and try to activate a minor clause in their defense.
And besides, A/RES/181(II) actually says:
11. Citizenship. All the residents shall become ipso facto citizens of the City of Jerusalem unless they opt for citizenship of the State of which they have been citizens or, if Arabs or Jews, have filed notice of intention to become citizens of the Arab or Jewish State respectively, according to part I, section B, paragraph 9, of this plan.
Your paraphrasing of the Citizenship Clause has a lot to be desired. I just wonder how many of the Arab Palestinians that (actually) filed a "notice of intention to become citizens" are still alive today?
Most Respectfully,
R1. Citizenship. Palestinian citizens residing in Palestine outside the City of Jerusalem, as well as Arabs and Jews who, not holding Palestinian citizenship, reside in Palestine outside the City of Jerusalem shall, upon the recognition of independence, become citizens of the State in which they are resident and enjoy full civil and political rights.
A/RES/181(II) of 29 November 1947
None of that other stuff matters. This follows international law.
The real issue is not which sources either one of us reads.Where have I Broadbrushed it, when I constantly give examples of Arabs who do live and peace with Jews and want to live in peace with Israel, all the Arabs who get to come to work in Israel, or study in Israel, or get medical help in Israel?I disagree with that assessment...I do think most of the time Israel IS exceedingly careful about targets and minimizing collateral damage - much more so I might add than Saudi Arabia in Yemen, or Bashee and Russia in Syria to give examples.
While civilians DO at times get targeted, and legitimate journalists...I think too often investigations tend to go easy on the killers - targeting civilians is standard practice unless those civilians are actively breeching security (ie border control) and no other measures are working. On the other hand, the Palestinian militants DO have a verifiable and undeniable record of TARGETING civilians - you really can't ignore that.NO ONE on these threads, on the Israeli Team has "broad brushed" the entire Arab population living in Gaza and in Judea and Samaria.I absolutely agree and that is also why I think it is important NOT to broadbrush an entire people by the actions of some. I think by and large Israel is far more diverse than is recognized outside of Israel and but the settler population represents a very powerful political voice and that is problematic for long term resolutions.
Your accusations have NO merit at all.
Good lord - you absolutely do. I see it all the time.
And the Jewish settlers are only defending their rights to BE in Judea and Samaria were ALL Jews were expelled from in 1948.
Oh. I see. Then I guess we can apply the same logic to Palestinian violence..."they are only defending their rights"? You have a lot in common with Tinmoore on this.
Peace is the long term solution. But that is something neither Hamas nor the PA/PLO/Fatah want. Never did and never will.
As long as they follow in Mohammad's example of Waiting, and Waiting, until they get what they want, as he did, there will not be Peace with those Arab leaders. They will not allow it.
Many Arabs in those areas want peace with Israel. But they are few and powerless.
Hamas is also operating in Judea and Samaria and in Israel as well.
What peace and resolution can come from their insistence in teaching all Arabs that the Jews stole Muslim land and that Jews have no right to live?
And what do Jews learn...about Palestinians? Both sides have significant problems here...Are Palestinian Textbooks Actually Any Worse Than Israeli Textbooks?
None.
First, that ideology needs to go. Short of that, the Arabs need to be definitely defeated and their ability to terrorize and kill at will put to an end.
Iran, Qatar, the EU and others are also a problem because they all feed the Arab leaders with money for more ways to attack Israel and the Jews who live there and in area C.
Come up with some ideas on how to put an end to the ideology, the Charters which call for the destruction of Israel and the death of all Jews, and the endless money and weapons going to Hamas and other terrorists and we will start getting somewhere, even if the Arabs (Arab League) will never agree to it.
Israel and the Arab states need to sit down and work out solutions. Then bring in the Palestinians. There is no defined leadership to work with. Ideology? Well here you are broadbrushing.
So, you are denying that because all Jews were expelled from their homes in 1948 from that area, that the Jews who now live there would be a bit, if not a lot apprehensive with all the violence coming their way and the endless failures at making the PA come to even discuss a Peace Treaty?
They are supposed to just sit there and take it, I guess.
I really do not know of many First Nation tribes in the Americas, who simply stood by and allowed themselves to be attacked and their lands just taken by the Europeans whether they were doing it by government consent or by their own will, do you?
The Palestinians not only THINK that they have the right to attack Jews, it is written in the PLO charter that they should do so. As I said before, not all Arabs want to attack Jews, many want a normal life, a decent job and salary and that is why there are thousands of them working not only in Israel but in the villages in Judea and Samaria, DESPITE Habbas having attempted to forbid them from doing so a few times. Why would he do that?
And do show me exactly in which Israeli textbooks Jews are being taught that the Arabs are the enemy and inciting them to kill the Arabs anywhere they find them?
Are you aware that many Arab schools in Israel are now opting for the Israeli curriculum which does not teach their children that the Jews are evil and to go out and kill them?
And I will say this ONE MORE TIME.
You are reading mostly, if not ONLY anti Israel sources. I can tell it. Most of us, if not all of us can tell that that is where you get all of your information and all of your links where nothing but bad things about Israeli Jews and policies are coming from. The one about the textbooks is a clear example of it.
When you start reading both sources and then making an actual conclusion from both, and not just one source, you may start to come to see the issues as they really have been and as they really are, and WHY there is no hope for a Peace Treaty with the PA or Hamas with their insistence in following Mohammad's ideology called Islam = Submission.
They want, and will only accept Submission from the Jewish people, exactly as they had it for 1300 years before Israel came to be in 1948.
I read and use mainstream sources most of the time - Israeli newspapers, Haaretz, Times etc. What sources do you use? I think you have your own anti-Palestinian bias here and frankly it's pretty much clear in your statement:
"...following Mohammad's ideology called Islam = Submission" a frequently used anti-muslim canard.
Submission to God. Not unlike Christianity - submission to God and God will take care of you.
The real issue is which sources are telling the truth and can either one of us distinguish the truth from the rest.
You may say from your sources that Palestine has no Army.
What is this?
https://www.idf.il/en/minisites/facts-and-figures/hamas/hamas-military-wing/
What do all of these photos portray?
View attachment 235366
View attachment 235368
View attachment 235371
View attachment 235369
View attachment 235372
View attachment 235370
View attachment 235367
View attachment 235373
Isn't Gaza, Palestine? Are they not wearing uniforms? Is it not a military ?
Here is Fatah under Abbas:
View attachment 235374
View attachment 235375
View attachment 235376
View attachment 235379
View attachment 235381
View attachment 235377
View attachment 235378
View attachment 235380
Are they not in uniform? Is it not a military?
The "right of return" for Arabs into Israel has been done already by those Israel decided to allow back. Some have turned to murdering Jews in Israel.RE: All The News Anti-Israel Posters Will Not Read Or Discuss
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
You are asking the Israelis to put their sovereignty and territorial integrity at risk.
(COMMENT)The Palestinians do not ask for others to provide anything.• Fundamentally, positive rights require others to provide you with either a good or service.
The tension and mistrust between the Hostile Arab Palestinian (HoAP) and the Israelis, that has accumulated over the decades of violence have tainted and contaminated any attempt at a fair and just negotiation or settlement of disputes.
There is (absolutely) no reasonable expectation that the "Right of Return" (or anything remotely like it) could happen happen for several generations. Until the semior members of government come from a family that has no previous experience with the Arab-Israeli Conflict. And the parents of the prodigy of that generation haven't even been born yet.
Most Respectfully,
R
The other "right of return" they refer to, being that of 5 Million Arabs, mostly descendants of those who fought the Jews during the Independence war and left before it started or were expelled afterwards, will never happen.
There are about 20,000 living Arabs who actually fled or were expelled from Israel before, during or after the war.
NONE will be allowed to return.
I don't see the Palestinians living in their homeland.RE: All The News Anti-Israel Posters Will Not Read Or Discuss
⁜→ theliq, et al,
Well, actually, I was not talking about "Zionists."
(COMMENT)There is a lot of SCUM that has invaded Palestine,All of Whom have NO RIGHT and NO PAST WITH THIS LAND...but the ZIONISTS COULDN'T GIVE A SHIT BECAUSE THEY ARE ILLEGAL ALIENS,
❖ Not all Israelis are Jews.
❖ Not all Jews are Zionists.
❖ Not all Zionists are Settlers.
Each nation, state and territorial government has its own immigration laws and its own understanding as to what it means to be an "illegal alien."
There is no question about the following facts.
❖ The Allied Powers assumed the Title and Rights to the territory that was formerly under the Mandate.
❖ The Allied Powers agree that under the Ttile and Rights the assumed by Treaty Law, they would establish a Jewish national Home in the territory.
❖ The Allied Powers assume that under the Ttile and Rights the assumed by Treaty Law, to facilitate Jewish immigration under suitable conditions and shall encourage immigration to "all Jews who are willing to assist in the establishment of the Jewish National Home."
Where is the "illegal immigration" criteria?
(COMMENT)Zionists are a Terrorist Organization and Racist
What lawful entity actually stipulates that?
Zionism is the political movement for national liberation. This movement includes the belief that:
◈ The Jewish people have the right to self-determination.
◈ The Jewish people have the right to realize their self-determination.
◈ The Jewish people have a right to become a nation like any other nation.
These are not "terrorist view" but the views held currently under international law and expressed by the Arab Palestinian People.
IF it is the case that the "Zionists are a Terrorist Organization" → THEN it must be the case the Arab Palestinian are equally guilty.
On the matter of "racism," the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) derive this belief from A/RES/3379 (XXX) 10 November 1975 which Determines that zionism is a form of racism and racial discrimination. What the HoAP most often forget to disclose (intentionally) is that in A/RES/46/86 16 December 1991 the UN specifically corrected the error and decided to "revoke the determination contained in its resolution 3379 (XXX)of 10 November 1975." The HoAP do this to perpetuate the myths.
(COMMENT)with it...Can anyone explain to me what is in the head of a Zionist other than self Loathing and Hate ????? , but they believe somehow their Cult is respectable...And I agree everyone should Hate Zionism it is a Cult of Terror.
A "cult," by definition, is dealing with a religious belief directed towards a very specific idea. Zionism is NOT a religious belief structure; but a national liberation movement.
As you will note, Article 2, Section 1, The Constitution of the WZO updated November 2017, specifically speaks to the aims of Zionism secured under public law.
Most Respectfully,
RAnd, according to you, the Palestinians do not have rights.◈ The Jewish people have the right to self-determination.
◈ The Jewish people have the right to realize their self-determination.
◈ The Jewish people have a right to become a nation like any other nation.
The Palestinian people's have those same exact rights.
They just don't have the right to murder civilians. No one has that right.
Please name an Israeli propaganda source. One where Jews and non Jews cannot tell the truth from the non truth. Where Israel and its friends spin every situation.The real issue is not which sources either one of us reads.Where have I Broadbrushed it, when I constantly give examples of Arabs who do live and peace with Jews and want to live in peace with Israel, all the Arabs who get to come to work in Israel, or study in Israel, or get medical help in Israel?NO ONE on these threads, on the Israeli Team has "broad brushed" the entire Arab population living in Gaza and in Judea and Samaria.
Your accusations have NO merit at all.
Good lord - you absolutely do. I see it all the time.
And the Jewish settlers are only defending their rights to BE in Judea and Samaria were ALL Jews were expelled from in 1948.
Oh. I see. Then I guess we can apply the same logic to Palestinian violence..."they are only defending their rights"? You have a lot in common with Tinmoore on this.
Peace is the long term solution. But that is something neither Hamas nor the PA/PLO/Fatah want. Never did and never will.
As long as they follow in Mohammad's example of Waiting, and Waiting, until they get what they want, as he did, there will not be Peace with those Arab leaders. They will not allow it.
Many Arabs in those areas want peace with Israel. But they are few and powerless.
Hamas is also operating in Judea and Samaria and in Israel as well.
What peace and resolution can come from their insistence in teaching all Arabs that the Jews stole Muslim land and that Jews have no right to live?
And what do Jews learn...about Palestinians? Both sides have significant problems here...Are Palestinian Textbooks Actually Any Worse Than Israeli Textbooks?
None.
First, that ideology needs to go. Short of that, the Arabs need to be definitely defeated and their ability to terrorize and kill at will put to an end.
Iran, Qatar, the EU and others are also a problem because they all feed the Arab leaders with money for more ways to attack Israel and the Jews who live there and in area C.
Come up with some ideas on how to put an end to the ideology, the Charters which call for the destruction of Israel and the death of all Jews, and the endless money and weapons going to Hamas and other terrorists and we will start getting somewhere, even if the Arabs (Arab League) will never agree to it.
Israel and the Arab states need to sit down and work out solutions. Then bring in the Palestinians. There is no defined leadership to work with. Ideology? Well here you are broadbrushing.
So, you are denying that because all Jews were expelled from their homes in 1948 from that area, that the Jews who now live there would be a bit, if not a lot apprehensive with all the violence coming their way and the endless failures at making the PA come to even discuss a Peace Treaty?
They are supposed to just sit there and take it, I guess.
I really do not know of many First Nation tribes in the Americas, who simply stood by and allowed themselves to be attacked and their lands just taken by the Europeans whether they were doing it by government consent or by their own will, do you?
The Palestinians not only THINK that they have the right to attack Jews, it is written in the PLO charter that they should do so. As I said before, not all Arabs want to attack Jews, many want a normal life, a decent job and salary and that is why there are thousands of them working not only in Israel but in the villages in Judea and Samaria, DESPITE Habbas having attempted to forbid them from doing so a few times. Why would he do that?
And do show me exactly in which Israeli textbooks Jews are being taught that the Arabs are the enemy and inciting them to kill the Arabs anywhere they find them?
Are you aware that many Arab schools in Israel are now opting for the Israeli curriculum which does not teach their children that the Jews are evil and to go out and kill them?
And I will say this ONE MORE TIME.
You are reading mostly, if not ONLY anti Israel sources. I can tell it. Most of us, if not all of us can tell that that is where you get all of your information and all of your links where nothing but bad things about Israeli Jews and policies are coming from. The one about the textbooks is a clear example of it.
When you start reading both sources and then making an actual conclusion from both, and not just one source, you may start to come to see the issues as they really have been and as they really are, and WHY there is no hope for a Peace Treaty with the PA or Hamas with their insistence in following Mohammad's ideology called Islam = Submission.
They want, and will only accept Submission from the Jewish people, exactly as they had it for 1300 years before Israel came to be in 1948.
I read and use mainstream sources most of the time - Israeli newspapers, Haaretz, Times etc. What sources do you use? I think you have your own anti-Palestinian bias here and frankly it's pretty much clear in your statement:
"...following Mohammad's ideology called Islam = Submission" a frequently used anti-muslim canard.
Submission to God. Not unlike Christianity - submission to God and God will take care of you.
The real issue is which sources are telling the truth and can either one of us distinguish the truth from the rest.
You may say from your sources that Palestine has no Army.
What is this?
https://www.idf.il/en/minisites/facts-and-figures/hamas/hamas-military-wing/
What do all of these photos portray?
View attachment 235366
View attachment 235368
View attachment 235371
View attachment 235369
View attachment 235372
View attachment 235370
View attachment 235367
View attachment 235373
Isn't Gaza, Palestine? Are they not wearing uniforms? Is it not a military ?
Here is Fatah under Abbas:
View attachment 235374
View attachment 235375
View attachment 235376
View attachment 235379
View attachment 235381
View attachment 235377
View attachment 235378
View attachment 235380
Are they not in uniform? Is it not a military?
I think the truth is not as clear as you want to believe. There are plenty of propoganda sources for both sides trying to spin every situation and Israel is no different than any other nation in conflict in that regard.
Tell me. What has the IDF investigation of Murtaja's murder revealed?
Not their job. They need to be back home.Some posters insist in picking an extremely small group of Jews who have been harassed and attacked endlessly and have had enough of it and are giving back what they have been given.RE: All The News Anti-Israel Posters Will Not Read Or Discuss
⁜→ Coyote, et al,
With any large culture or segment of people, there are subsets that one or more show definite separate and distinct attributes and characteristics. The Jewish "Settlers" of the West Bank fall into this category with malevolent and unkindly attributes and definite negative characteristics.
(COMMENT)
I do not think that there is any question, that the vast majority for all Israelis (Jewish or otherwise) find the behavior of these Jewish "Settlers" of the West Bank to be abhorrent and unacceptable; → maybe even a bit ashamed by it. And this shame may be the reason that the Israelis don't talk about them. They want to disassociate themselves for this poorly disciplined aspect of their society.
Most Respectfully,
R
It is preferable that they would not act as the Arabs do, but 98 years of Arab attacks, rapes, dismemberment, expulsions, murders of Jews does finally hit some Jews in Israel and in Judea and Samaria and they say enough and start acting on their own in the bad way we see.
The number of times some Jews have attacked Arabs is extremely low when one looks at the endless attacks by Arabs on Jews.
We are not seeing Jews with cars, screw drivers, knives, molotovs, etc going out right after we hear it in the news and do to the Arabs what is constantly being done to the Jews.
There has not been one fiery or explosive balloon sent to Gaza or Areas A and B by any Jews.
As it has been reminded, it is a war.
It has been going on since 1920 when the Husseini Clan decided to start riots threatening all Jews in Mandate Palestine.
Many in the Haredi, and other religious groups, seem to be behind the attacks on Arabs, but it is not because they have not constantly experienced being attacked themselves and being constantly told that they have "stolen" Arab land, when it is the Jews who were expelled from this historical Jewish land of Judea and Samaria in 1948 and everything, land, schools, homes, businesses, etc, stolen from them by the Hashemite Arabs.
And let us not forget, that after Jews were expelled by their own government in 2005 from Gaza and cities in Judea and Samaria, the Arab leaders and the population only see more possibilities of taking more land from the Jews.
Why? Because they are not Muslims.
Because the Arabs managed to get 80% of the Mandate for Palestine designed for the re-creation of the Jewish State, and will never be happy until the other 20% is also in Arab/Muslim hands.
When Muslims accuse the land of being stolen, they are only referring to the fact that the land used to be in Muslim hands, and they want it all to be in Muslim hands, it does not matter which Arab tribe gets it.
But Jews, as we all know, according to Islam, does not have the right to be sovereign over any part of once conquered Muslim land.
Since 1920. It is a WAR. It continues to be the Muslim war against the Jewish rights to be sovereign over any part of their ancient homeland.
Israel does its part, even if not always, in punishing crimes.
Hamas gives candies. The PA, like Hamas, names streets, parks, etc after any Arab who kills Jews.
Jews are not seen as humans. They follow the teachings and repeat constantly that Jews are Ape and Pigs. And that one must remember the Arabian Jewish tribe which was decapitated and turn to slavery, in Khaybar. How those Jews were defeated, is how today's Jews must be defeated.
That is the war Israel faces. That is the level of education in the Arab communities Jews face on a daily basis.
Jewish culture and education is what keeps many more Jews from doing exactly to the Arabs what the Arabs keep doing to the Jews.
If five Arab nations hadn't invaded territory in the British Palestinian mandate in 1948, and the Palestinians had accepted theIr share of the former mandate,maybe none of this would be happening.
As for the refugees; why were they not assimilated into wherever? As with Jews expelled from Arab lands, Indians from Uganda; and to take it further, 6 million DP's in Europe after WW2. What happened to them?
There aren't any refugee camps lingering from that era, as far as I know.Why is it their job to clean up after Israel?As for the refugees; why were they not assimilated into wherever?
Because the Arab nations PROLONGED their refugee status far beyond what should have been done. Because they used the Palestinian's refugee status for their own political purposes. Why are the Palestinians so abysmally treated in some of those countries? Stateless, citizenless, rightless. Palestinian refugees in Syria couldn't even FLEE ISIS because they had no papers, no existence and NO PLACE TO GO and that is not just at Israel's feet! It's a combined responsibility that has gone ignored for too long!
All the Jews who have been expelled from Gaza, Hebron, Jerusalem, Judea and Samaria from 1920 to 1948 have had all of their homes, lands, businesses, schools, belongings confiscated by the Arab leaders and Arab population.The "right of return" for Arabs into Israel has been done already by those Israel decided to allow back. Some have turned to murdering Jews in Israel.RE: All The News Anti-Israel Posters Will Not Read Or Discuss
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,
You are asking the Israelis to put their sovereignty and territorial integrity at risk.
(COMMENT)The Palestinians do not ask for others to provide anything.• Fundamentally, positive rights require others to provide you with either a good or service.
The tension and mistrust between the Hostile Arab Palestinian (HoAP) and the Israelis, that has accumulated over the decades of violence have tainted and contaminated any attempt at a fair and just negotiation or settlement of disputes.
There is (absolutely) no reasonable expectation that the "Right of Return" (or anything remotely like it) could happen happen for several generations. Until the semior members of government come from a family that has no previous experience with the Arab-Israeli Conflict. And the parents of the prodigy of that generation haven't even been born yet.
Most Respectfully,
R
The other "right of return" they refer to, being that of 5 Million Arabs, mostly descendants of those who fought the Jews during the Independence war and left before it started or were expelled afterwards, will never happen.
There are about 20,000 living Arabs who actually fled or were expelled from Israel before, during or after the war.
NONE will be allowed to return.
Many who fled were not allowed back...were not violent, and had their land essentially confiscated through absentee landowner laws.
I don't see the Palestinians living in their homeland.RE: All The News Anti-Israel Posters Will Not Read Or Discuss
⁜→ theliq, et al,
Well, actually, I was not talking about "Zionists."
(COMMENT)There is a lot of SCUM that has invaded Palestine,All of Whom have NO RIGHT and NO PAST WITH THIS LAND...but the ZIONISTS COULDN'T GIVE A SHIT BECAUSE THEY ARE ILLEGAL ALIENS,
❖ Not all Israelis are Jews.
❖ Not all Jews are Zionists.
❖ Not all Zionists are Settlers.
Each nation, state and territorial government has its own immigration laws and its own understanding as to what it means to be an "illegal alien."
There is no question about the following facts.
❖ The Allied Powers assumed the Title and Rights to the territory that was formerly under the Mandate.
❖ The Allied Powers agree that under the Ttile and Rights the assumed by Treaty Law, they would establish a Jewish national Home in the territory.
❖ The Allied Powers assume that under the Ttile and Rights the assumed by Treaty Law, to facilitate Jewish immigration under suitable conditions and shall encourage immigration to "all Jews who are willing to assist in the establishment of the Jewish National Home."
Where is the "illegal immigration" criteria?
(COMMENT)Zionists are a Terrorist Organization and Racist
What lawful entity actually stipulates that?
Zionism is the political movement for national liberation. This movement includes the belief that:
◈ The Jewish people have the right to self-determination.
◈ The Jewish people have the right to realize their self-determination.
◈ The Jewish people have a right to become a nation like any other nation.
These are not "terrorist view" but the views held currently under international law and expressed by the Arab Palestinian People.
IF it is the case that the "Zionists are a Terrorist Organization" → THEN it must be the case the Arab Palestinian are equally guilty.
On the matter of "racism," the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) derive this belief from A/RES/3379 (XXX) 10 November 1975 which Determines that zionism is a form of racism and racial discrimination. What the HoAP most often forget to disclose (intentionally) is that in A/RES/46/86 16 December 1991 the UN specifically corrected the error and decided to "revoke the determination contained in its resolution 3379 (XXX)
(COMMENT)with it...Can anyone explain to me what is in the head of a Zionist other than self Loathing and Hate ????? , but they believe somehow their Cult is respectable...And I agree everyone should Hate Zionism it is a Cult of Terror.
A "cult," by definition, is dealing with a religious belief directed towards a very specific idea. Zionism is NOT a religious belief structure; but a national liberation movement.
As you will note, Article 2, Section 1, The Constitution of the WZO updated November 2017, specifically speaks to the aims of Zionism secured under public law.
Most Respectfully,
RAnd, according to you, the Palestinians do not have rights.◈ The Jewish people have the right to self-determination.
◈ The Jewish people have the right to realize their self-determination.
◈ The Jewish people have a right to become a nation like any other nation.
The Palestinian people's have those same exact rights.
They just don't have the right to murder civilians. No one has that right.
There are Arab Israeli (Palestinian) citizens in Israel, there are Palestinians in West Bank and Gaza.
Is all set to right yet? No. But you can't say there are none living there.
... Your constant claim of non-equivalence is, imo, just a way of excusing the behavior of settlers towards the Palestinians in their area.
... and frankly the constant claim that they are strikes me as a way to excuse bad behavior, abuses and injustice. Is it?
Ditto.And, for the record because I know this will get jumped on and distorted - I DO NOT AGREE with the view and I DO NOT AGREE with targeting civilians who EVER.
I am not justifying it or excusing it. I'm saying that the quote, in context, does not say what you think it says. It does not call for the murder of civilians. Nor does it imply that the Jewish people think of Arabs as "vermin". That is you projecting.But if you justify (and excuse it) on the Israeli side, you can hardly apply a different standard to the Palestinians.
Of course I see it. Further, I understand it very well, due to the nature of my work teaching about abusive relationships. Its a subtle way of making the victim responsible for the anger, hatred and subsequent bad behaviour of the abuser.And you don't see how these kind of things FEED an ongoing anger and hatred of Israel on the Palestinian side? You really can't see it?
Please name an Israeli propaganda source. One where Jews and non Jews cannot tell the truth from the non truth. Where Israel and its friends spin every situation.The real issue is not which sources either one of us reads.Where have I Broadbrushed it, when I constantly give examples of Arabs who do live and peace with Jews and want to live in peace with Israel, all the Arabs who get to come to work in Israel, or study in Israel, or get medical help in Israel?Good lord - you absolutely do. I see it all the time.
Oh. I see. Then I guess we can apply the same logic to Palestinian violence..."they are only defending their rights"? You have a lot in common with Tinmoore on this.
And what do Jews learn...about Palestinians? Both sides have significant problems here...Are Palestinian Textbooks Actually Any Worse Than Israeli Textbooks?
Israel and the Arab states need to sit down and work out solutions. Then bring in the Palestinians. There is no defined leadership to work with. Ideology? Well here you are broadbrushing.
So, you are denying that because all Jews were expelled from their homes in 1948 from that area, that the Jews who now live there would be a bit, if not a lot apprehensive with all the violence coming their way and the endless failures at making the PA come to even discuss a Peace Treaty?
They are supposed to just sit there and take it, I guess.
I really do not know of many First Nation tribes in the Americas, who simply stood by and allowed themselves to be attacked and their lands just taken by the Europeans whether they were doing it by government consent or by their own will, do you?
The Palestinians not only THINK that they have the right to attack Jews, it is written in the PLO charter that they should do so. As I said before, not all Arabs want to attack Jews, many want a normal life, a decent job and salary and that is why there are thousands of them working not only in Israel but in the villages in Judea and Samaria, DESPITE Habbas having attempted to forbid them from doing so a few times. Why would he do that?
And do show me exactly in which Israeli textbooks Jews are being taught that the Arabs are the enemy and inciting them to kill the Arabs anywhere they find them?
Are you aware that many Arab schools in Israel are now opting for the Israeli curriculum which does not teach their children that the Jews are evil and to go out and kill them?
And I will say this ONE MORE TIME.
You are reading mostly, if not ONLY anti Israel sources. I can tell it. Most of us, if not all of us can tell that that is where you get all of your information and all of your links where nothing but bad things about Israeli Jews and policies are coming from. The one about the textbooks is a clear example of it.
When you start reading both sources and then making an actual conclusion from both, and not just one source, you may start to come to see the issues as they really have been and as they really are, and WHY there is no hope for a Peace Treaty with the PA or Hamas with their insistence in following Mohammad's ideology called Islam = Submission.
They want, and will only accept Submission from the Jewish people, exactly as they had it for 1300 years before Israel came to be in 1948.
I read and use mainstream sources most of the time - Israeli newspapers, Haaretz, Times etc. What sources do you use? I think you have your own anti-Palestinian bias here and frankly it's pretty much clear in your statement:
"...following Mohammad's ideology called Islam = Submission" a frequently used anti-muslim canard.
Submission to God. Not unlike Christianity - submission to God and God will take care of you.
The real issue is which sources are telling the truth and can either one of us distinguish the truth from the rest.
You may say from your sources that Palestine has no Army.
What is this?
https://www.idf.il/en/minisites/facts-and-figures/hamas/hamas-military-wing/
What do all of these photos portray?
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Isn't Gaza, Palestine? Are they not wearing uniforms? Is it not a military ?
Here is Fatah under Abbas:
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Are they not in uniform? Is it not a military?
I think the truth is not as clear as you want to believe. There are plenty of propoganda sources for both sides trying to spin every situation and Israel is no different than any other nation in conflict in that regard.
Tell me. What has the IDF investigation of Murtaja's murder revealed?
Name the situations Israel has pinned away from what actually happened.
Countering allegations and accusations is not spinning and much less propaganda.
So, give me some real examples of Israel and friends spinning and
doing propaganda to make the world think they are not seeing what they are seeing.
