All The News Anti-Israel Posters Will Not Read Or Discuss

[Coyote]

RE: All The News Anti-Israel Posters Will Not Read Or Discuss
⁜→ Coyote, et al,

With any large culture or segment of people, there are subsets that one or more show definite separate and distinct attributes and characteristics. The Jewish "Settlers" of the West Bank fall into this category with malevolent and unkindly attributes and definite negative characteristics.

Why do settlers stone Palestinian kids trying to go to school?

(COMMENT)

I do not think that there is any question, that the vast majority for all Israelis (Jewish or otherwise) find the behavior of these Jewish "Settlers" of the West Bank to be abhorrent and unacceptable; → maybe even a bit ashamed by it. And this shame may be the reason that the Israelis don't talk about them. They want to disassociate themselves for this poorly disciplined aspect of their society.

Most Respectfully,
R

Some posters insist in picking an extremely small group of Jews who have been harassed and attacked endlessly and have had enough of it and are giving back what they have been given.

It is preferable that they would not act as the Arabs do, but 98 years of Arab attacks, rapes, dismemberment, expulsions, murders of Jews does finally hit some Jews in Israel and in Judea and Samaria and they say enough and start acting on their own in the bad way we see.

The number of times some Jews have attacked Arabs is extremely low when one looks at the endless attacks by Arabs on Jews.

We are not seeing Jews with cars, screw drivers, knives, molotovs, etc going out right after we hear it in the news and do to the Arabs what is constantly being done to the Jews.

There has not been one fiery or explosive balloon sent to Gaza or Areas A and B by any Jews.

As it has been reminded, it is a war.
It has been going on since 1920 when the Husseini Clan decided to start riots threatening all Jews in Mandate Palestine.

Many in the Haredi, and other religious groups, seem to be behind the attacks on Arabs, but it is not because they have not constantly experienced being attacked themselves and being constantly told that they have "stolen" Arab land, when it is the Jews who were expelled from this historical Jewish land of Judea and Samaria in 1948 and everything, land, schools, homes, businesses, etc, stolen from them by the Hashemite Arabs.

And let us not forget, that after Jews were expelled by their own government in 2005 from Gaza and cities in Judea and Samaria, the Arab leaders and the population only see more possibilities of taking more land from the Jews.

Why? Because they are not Muslims.

Because the Arabs managed to get 80% of the Mandate for Palestine designed for the re-creation of the Jewish State, and will never be happy until the other 20% is also in Arab/Muslim hands.

When Muslims accuse the land of being stolen, they are only referring to the fact that the land used to be in Muslim hands, and they want it all to be in Muslim hands, it does not matter which Arab tribe gets it.

But Jews, as we all know, according to Islam, does not have the right to be sovereign over any part of once conquered Muslim land.

Since 1920. It is a WAR. It continues to be the Muslim war against the Jewish rights to be sovereign over any part of their ancient homeland.

Israel does its part, even if not always, in punishing crimes.
Hamas gives candies. The PA, like Hamas, names streets, parks, etc after any Arab who kills Jews.

Jews are not seen as humans. They follow the teachings and repeat constantly that Jews are Ape and Pigs. And that one must remember the Arabian Jewish tribe which was decapitated and turn to slavery, in Khaybar. How those Jews were defeated, is how today's Jews must be defeated.

That is the war Israel faces. That is the level of education in the Arab communities Jews face on a daily basis.

Jewish culture and education is what keeps many more Jews from doing exactly to the Arabs what the Arabs keep doing to the Jews.

If five Arab nations hadn't invaded territory in the British Palestinian mandate in 1948, and the Palestinians had accepted theIr share of the former mandate,maybe none of this would be happening.

As for the refugees; why were they not assimilated into wherever? As with Jews expelled from Arab lands, Indians from Uganda; and to take it further, 6 million DP's in Europe after WW2. What happened to them?

There aren't any refugee camps lingering from that era, as far as I know.

and the Palestinians had accepted theIr share of the former mandate

What "share" of Palestine should the Palestinians accept?

Another tricky dumb question by the King of Dumb Questions.

80% of the Mandate for Palestine is not good enough for the Arabs, call the tribes what one will, but even more of a share of the Jewish homeland is DEMANDED by you in order to make "things right".

The Jews accepted having 80% of their homeland taken from them in order to live in peace.

Unless the Arabs give up hatred and terrorism and really want peace, they will be getting no more land, because there is not more Jewish land FOR NO PEACE to give up.

GOT IT ?

So as far as you are concerned it's all Jewish land. How is that different than those on the other side who claim it is all Palestinian land?

Neither recognizing the other has rights.

 

[Coyote]

RE: All The News Anti-Israel Posters Will Not Read Or Discuss
⁜→ Coyote, et al,

With any large culture or segment of people, there are subsets that one or more show definite separate and distinct attributes and characteristics. The Jewish "Settlers" of the West Bank fall into this category with malevolent and unkindly attributes and definite negative characteristics.

Why do settlers stone Palestinian kids trying to go to school?

(COMMENT)

I do not think that there is any question, that the vast majority for all Israelis (Jewish or otherwise) find the behavior of these Jewish "Settlers" of the West Bank to be abhorrent and unacceptable; → maybe even a bit ashamed by it. And this shame may be the reason that the Israelis don't talk about them. They want to disassociate themselves for this poorly disciplined aspect of their society.

Most Respectfully,
R

Some posters insist in picking an extremely small group of Jews who have been harassed and attacked endlessly and have had enough of it and are giving back what they have been given.

It is preferable that they would not act as the Arabs do, but 98 years of Arab attacks, rapes, dismemberment, expulsions, murders of Jews does finally hit some Jews in Israel and in Judea and Samaria and they say enough and start acting on their own in the bad way we see.

The number of times some Jews have attacked Arabs is extremely low when one looks at the endless attacks by Arabs on Jews.

We are not seeing Jews with cars, screw drivers, knives, molotovs, etc going out right after we hear it in the news and do to the Arabs what is constantly being done to the Jews.

There has not been one fiery or explosive balloon sent to Gaza or Areas A and B by any Jews.

As it has been reminded, it is a war.
It has been going on since 1920 when the Husseini Clan decided to start riots threatening all Jews in Mandate Palestine.

Many in the Haredi, and other religious groups, seem to be behind the attacks on Arabs, but it is not because they have not constantly experienced being attacked themselves and being constantly told that they have "stolen" Arab land, when it is the Jews who were expelled from this historical Jewish land of Judea and Samaria in 1948 and everything, land, schools, homes, businesses, etc, stolen from them by the Hashemite Arabs.

And let us not forget, that after Jews were expelled by their own government in 2005 from Gaza and cities in Judea and Samaria, the Arab leaders and the population only see more possibilities of taking more land from the Jews.

Why? Because they are not Muslims.

Because the Arabs managed to get 80% of the Mandate for Palestine designed for the re-creation of the Jewish State, and will never be happy until the other 20% is also in Arab/Muslim hands.

When Muslims accuse the land of being stolen, they are only referring to the fact that the land used to be in Muslim hands, and they want it all to be in Muslim hands, it does not matter which Arab tribe gets it.

But Jews, as we all know, according to Islam, does not have the right to be sovereign over any part of once conquered Muslim land.

Since 1920. It is a WAR. It continues to be the Muslim war against the Jewish rights to be sovereign over any part of their ancient homeland.

Israel does its part, even if not always, in punishing crimes.
Hamas gives candies. The PA, like Hamas, names streets, parks, etc after any Arab who kills Jews.

Jews are not seen as humans. They follow the teachings and repeat constantly that Jews are Ape and Pigs. And that one must remember the Arabian Jewish tribe which was decapitated and turn to slavery, in Khaybar. How those Jews were defeated, is how today's Jews must be defeated.

That is the war Israel faces. That is the level of education in the Arab communities Jews face on a daily basis.

Jewish culture and education is what keeps many more Jews from doing exactly to the Arabs what the Arabs keep doing to the Jews.

If five Arab nations hadn't invaded territory in the British Palestinian mandate in 1948, and the Palestinians had accepted theIr share of the former mandate,maybe none of this would be happening.

As for the refugees; why were they not assimilated into wherever? As with Jews expelled from Arab lands, Indians from Uganda; and to take it further, 6 million DP's in Europe after WW2. What happened to them?

There aren't any refugee camps lingering from that era, as far as I know.

As for the refugees; why were they not assimilated into wherever?

Why is it their job to clean up after Israel?

Because the Arab nations PROLONGED their refugee status far beyond what should have been done. Because they used the Palestinian's refugee status for their own political purposes. Why are the Palestinians so abysmally treated in some of those countries? Stateless, citizenless, rightless. Palestinian refugees in Syria couldn't even FLEE ISIS because they had no papers, no existence and NO PLACE TO GO and that is not just at Israel's feet! It's a combined responsibility that has gone ignored for too long!

 

[Coyote]

RE: All The News Anti-Israel Posters Will Not Read Or Discuss
⁜→ theliq, et al,

Well, actually, I was not talking about "Zionists."

There is a lot of SCUM that has invaded Palestine,All of Whom have NO RIGHT and NO PAST WITH THIS LAND...but the ZIONISTS COULDN'T GIVE A SHIT BECAUSE THEY ARE ILLEGAL ALIENS,

(COMMENT)

❖ Not all Israelis are Jews.
❖ Not all Jews are Zionists.
❖ Not all Zionists are Settlers.​

Each nation, state and territorial government has its own immigration laws and its own understanding as to what it means to be an "illegal alien."

There is no question about the following facts.

❖ The Allied Powers assumed the Title and Rights to the territory that was formerly under the Mandate.
❖ The Allied Powers agree that under the Ttile and Rights the assumed by Treaty Law, they would establish a Jewish national Home in the territory.
❖ The Allied Powers assume that under the Ttile and Rights the assumed by Treaty Law, to facilitate Jewish immigration under suitable conditions and shall encourage immigration to "all Jews who are willing to assist in the establishment of the Jewish National Home."​

Where is the "illegal immigration" criteria?

Zionists are a Terrorist Organization and Racist

(COMMENT)

What lawful entity actually stipulates that?

View attachment 235335
​

Zionism is the political movement for national liberation. This movement includes the belief that:

◈ The Jewish people have the right to self-determination.
◈ The Jewish people have the right to realize their self-determination.
◈ The Jewish people have a right to become a nation like any other nation.​

These are not "terrorist view" but the views held currently under international law and expressed by the Arab Palestinian People.

IF it is the case that the "Zionists are a Terrorist Organization" → THEN it must be the case the Arab Palestinian are equally guilty.

On the matter of "racism," the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) derive this belief from A/RES/3379 (XXX) 10 November 1975 which Determines that zionism is a form of racism and racial discrimination. What the HoAP most often forget to disclose (intentionally) is that in A/RES/46/86 16 December 1991 the UN specifically corrected the error and decided to "revoke the determination contained in its resolution 3379 (XXX) of 10 November 1975." The HoAP do this to perpetuate the myths.

with it...Can anyone explain to me what is in the head of a Zionist other than self Loathing and Hate ????? , but they believe somehow their Cult is respectable...And I agree everyone should Hate Zionism it is a Cult of Terror.

(COMMENT)

A "cult," by definition, is dealing with a religious belief directed towards a very specific idea. Zionism is NOT a religious belief structure; but a national liberation movement.

View attachment 235339
​

As you will note, Article 2, Section 1, The Constitution of the WZO updated November 2017, specifically speaks to the aims of Zionism secured under public law.

Most Respectfully,
R

◈ The Jewish people have the right to self-determination.
◈ The Jewish people have the right to realize their self-determination.
◈ The Jewish people have a right to become a nation like any other nation.

And, according to you, the Palestinians do not have rights.

The Palestinian people's have those same exact rights.

They just don't have the right to murder civilians. No one has that right.

Israel murders civilians all the time yet Palestinian resistance is expected to be pristine. If the international community would enforce international law, that problem would be solved.

No they are not expected to be pristine. Just, for a start - stop targeting civilians. Explain please how you can justify creeping into a house at night and murdering every inhabitent right down to the infant? How is that NOT deliberately targeting civilians? How is that in any remote way self defense?

 

[P F Tinmore]

RE: All The News Anti-Israel Posters Will Not Read Or Discuss
⁜→ Coyote, et al,

With any large culture or segment of people, there are subsets that one or more show definite separate and distinct attributes and characteristics. The Jewish "Settlers" of the West Bank fall into this category with malevolent and unkindly attributes and definite negative characteristics.

Why do settlers stone Palestinian kids trying to go to school?

(COMMENT)

I do not think that there is any question, that the vast majority for all Israelis (Jewish or otherwise) find the behavior of these Jewish "Settlers" of the West Bank to be abhorrent and unacceptable; → maybe even a bit ashamed by it. And this shame may be the reason that the Israelis don't talk about them. They want to disassociate themselves for this poorly disciplined aspect of their society.

Most Respectfully,
R

Some posters insist in picking an extremely small group of Jews who have been harassed and attacked endlessly and have had enough of it and are giving back what they have been given.

It is preferable that they would not act as the Arabs do, but 98 years of Arab attacks, rapes, dismemberment, expulsions, murders of Jews does finally hit some Jews in Israel and in Judea and Samaria and they say enough and start acting on their own in the bad way we see.

The number of times some Jews have attacked Arabs is extremely low when one looks at the endless attacks by Arabs on Jews.

We are not seeing Jews with cars, screw drivers, knives, molotovs, etc going out right after we hear it in the news and do to the Arabs what is constantly being done to the Jews.

There has not been one fiery or explosive balloon sent to Gaza or Areas A and B by any Jews.

As it has been reminded, it is a war.
It has been going on since 1920 when the Husseini Clan decided to start riots threatening all Jews in Mandate Palestine.

Many in the Haredi, and other religious groups, seem to be behind the attacks on Arabs, but it is not because they have not constantly experienced being attacked themselves and being constantly told that they have "stolen" Arab land, when it is the Jews who were expelled from this historical Jewish land of Judea and Samaria in 1948 and everything, land, schools, homes, businesses, etc, stolen from them by the Hashemite Arabs.

And let us not forget, that after Jews were expelled by their own government in 2005 from Gaza and cities in Judea and Samaria, the Arab leaders and the population only see more possibilities of taking more land from the Jews.

Why? Because they are not Muslims.

Because the Arabs managed to get 80% of the Mandate for Palestine designed for the re-creation of the Jewish State, and will never be happy until the other 20% is also in Arab/Muslim hands.

When Muslims accuse the land of being stolen, they are only referring to the fact that the land used to be in Muslim hands, and they want it all to be in Muslim hands, it does not matter which Arab tribe gets it.

But Jews, as we all know, according to Islam, does not have the right to be sovereign over any part of once conquered Muslim land.

Since 1920. It is a WAR. It continues to be the Muslim war against the Jewish rights to be sovereign over any part of their ancient homeland.

Israel does its part, even if not always, in punishing crimes.
Hamas gives candies. The PA, like Hamas, names streets, parks, etc after any Arab who kills Jews.

Jews are not seen as humans. They follow the teachings and repeat constantly that Jews are Ape and Pigs. And that one must remember the Arabian Jewish tribe which was decapitated and turn to slavery, in Khaybar. How those Jews were defeated, is how today's Jews must be defeated.

That is the war Israel faces. That is the level of education in the Arab communities Jews face on a daily basis.

Jewish culture and education is what keeps many more Jews from doing exactly to the Arabs what the Arabs keep doing to the Jews.

If five Arab nations hadn't invaded territory in the British Palestinian mandate in 1948, and the Palestinians had accepted theIr share of the former mandate,maybe none of this would be happening.

As for the refugees; why were they not assimilated into wherever? As with Jews expelled from Arab lands, Indians from Uganda; and to take it further, 6 million DP's in Europe after WW2. What happened to them?

There aren't any refugee camps lingering from that era, as far as I know.

and the Palestinians had accepted theIr share of the former mandate

What "share" of Palestine should the Palestinians accept?

Another tricky dumb question by the King of Dumb Questions.

80% of the Mandate for Palestine is not good enough for the Arabs, call the tribes what one will, but even more of a share of the Jewish homeland is DEMANDED by you in order to make "things right".

The Jews accepted having 80% of their homeland taken from them in order to live in peace.

Unless the Arabs give up hatred and terrorism and really want peace, they will be getting no more land, because there is not more Jewish land FOR NO PEACE to give up.

GOT IT ?

80% of the Mandate for Palestine is not good enough for the Arabs,

Which Arabs?

 

[P F Tinmore]

RE: All The News Anti-Israel Posters Will Not Read Or Discuss
⁜→ theliq, et al,

Well, actually, I was not talking about "Zionists."

There is a lot of SCUM that has invaded Palestine,All of Whom have NO RIGHT and NO PAST WITH THIS LAND...but the ZIONISTS COULDN'T GIVE A SHIT BECAUSE THEY ARE ILLEGAL ALIENS,

(COMMENT)

❖ Not all Israelis are Jews.
❖ Not all Jews are Zionists.
❖ Not all Zionists are Settlers.​

Each nation, state and territorial government has its own immigration laws and its own understanding as to what it means to be an "illegal alien."

There is no question about the following facts.

❖ The Allied Powers assumed the Title and Rights to the territory that was formerly under the Mandate.
❖ The Allied Powers agree that under the Ttile and Rights the assumed by Treaty Law, they would establish a Jewish national Home in the territory.
❖ The Allied Powers assume that under the Ttile and Rights the assumed by Treaty Law, to facilitate Jewish immigration under suitable conditions and shall encourage immigration to "all Jews who are willing to assist in the establishment of the Jewish National Home."​

Where is the "illegal immigration" criteria?

Zionists are a Terrorist Organization and Racist

(COMMENT)

What lawful entity actually stipulates that?

View attachment 235335
​

Zionism is the political movement for national liberation. This movement includes the belief that:

◈ The Jewish people have the right to self-determination.
◈ The Jewish people have the right to realize their self-determination.
◈ The Jewish people have a right to become a nation like any other nation.​

These are not "terrorist view" but the views held currently under international law and expressed by the Arab Palestinian People.

IF it is the case that the "Zionists are a Terrorist Organization" → THEN it must be the case the Arab Palestinian are equally guilty.

On the matter of "racism," the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) derive this belief from A/RES/3379 (XXX) 10 November 1975 which Determines that zionism is a form of racism and racial discrimination. What the HoAP most often forget to disclose (intentionally) is that in A/RES/46/86 16 December 1991 the UN specifically corrected the error and decided to "revoke the determination contained in its resolution 3379 (XXX) of 10 November 1975." The HoAP do this to perpetuate the myths.

with it...Can anyone explain to me what is in the head of a Zionist other than self Loathing and Hate ????? , but they believe somehow their Cult is respectable...And I agree everyone should Hate Zionism it is a Cult of Terror.

(COMMENT)

A "cult," by definition, is dealing with a religious belief directed towards a very specific idea. Zionism is NOT a religious belief structure; but a national liberation movement.

View attachment 235339
​

As you will note, Article 2, Section 1, The Constitution of the WZO updated November 2017, specifically speaks to the aims of Zionism secured under public law.

Most Respectfully,
R

◈ The Jewish people have the right to self-determination.
◈ The Jewish people have the right to realize their self-determination.
◈ The Jewish people have a right to become a nation like any other nation.

And, according to you, the Palestinians do not have rights.

The Palestinian people's have those same exact rights.

They just don't have the right to murder civilians. No one has that right.

Israel murders civilians all the time yet Palestinian resistance is expected to be pristine. If the international community would enforce international law, that problem would be solved.

No they are not expected to be pristine. Just, for a start - stop targeting civilians. Explain please how you can justify creeping into a house at night and murdering every inhabitent right down to the infant? How is that NOT deliberately targeting civilians? How is that in any remote way self defense?

Israel kills Palestinian civilians by the thousands and you talk about one family.

Double standard much?

 

[P F Tinmore]

RE: All The News Anti-Israel Posters Will Not Read Or Discuss
⁜→ Coyote, et al,

With any large culture or segment of people, there are subsets that one or more show definite separate and distinct attributes and characteristics. The Jewish "Settlers" of the West Bank fall into this category with malevolent and unkindly attributes and definite negative characteristics.

Why do settlers stone Palestinian kids trying to go to school?

(COMMENT)

I do not think that there is any question, that the vast majority for all Israelis (Jewish or otherwise) find the behavior of these Jewish "Settlers" of the West Bank to be abhorrent and unacceptable; → maybe even a bit ashamed by it. And this shame may be the reason that the Israelis don't talk about them. They want to disassociate themselves for this poorly disciplined aspect of their society.

Most Respectfully,
R

Some posters insist in picking an extremely small group of Jews who have been harassed and attacked endlessly and have had enough of it and are giving back what they have been given.

It is preferable that they would not act as the Arabs do, but 98 years of Arab attacks, rapes, dismemberment, expulsions, murders of Jews does finally hit some Jews in Israel and in Judea and Samaria and they say enough and start acting on their own in the bad way we see.

The number of times some Jews have attacked Arabs is extremely low when one looks at the endless attacks by Arabs on Jews.

We are not seeing Jews with cars, screw drivers, knives, molotovs, etc going out right after we hear it in the news and do to the Arabs what is constantly being done to the Jews.

There has not been one fiery or explosive balloon sent to Gaza or Areas A and B by any Jews.

As it has been reminded, it is a war.
It has been going on since 1920 when the Husseini Clan decided to start riots threatening all Jews in Mandate Palestine.

Many in the Haredi, and other religious groups, seem to be behind the attacks on Arabs, but it is not because they have not constantly experienced being attacked themselves and being constantly told that they have "stolen" Arab land, when it is the Jews who were expelled from this historical Jewish land of Judea and Samaria in 1948 and everything, land, schools, homes, businesses, etc, stolen from them by the Hashemite Arabs.

And let us not forget, that after Jews were expelled by their own government in 2005 from Gaza and cities in Judea and Samaria, the Arab leaders and the population only see more possibilities of taking more land from the Jews.

Why? Because they are not Muslims.

Because the Arabs managed to get 80% of the Mandate for Palestine designed for the re-creation of the Jewish State, and will never be happy until the other 20% is also in Arab/Muslim hands.

When Muslims accuse the land of being stolen, they are only referring to the fact that the land used to be in Muslim hands, and they want it all to be in Muslim hands, it does not matter which Arab tribe gets it.

But Jews, as we all know, according to Islam, does not have the right to be sovereign over any part of once conquered Muslim land.

Since 1920. It is a WAR. It continues to be the Muslim war against the Jewish rights to be sovereign over any part of their ancient homeland.

Israel does its part, even if not always, in punishing crimes.
Hamas gives candies. The PA, like Hamas, names streets, parks, etc after any Arab who kills Jews.

Jews are not seen as humans. They follow the teachings and repeat constantly that Jews are Ape and Pigs. And that one must remember the Arabian Jewish tribe which was decapitated and turn to slavery, in Khaybar. How those Jews were defeated, is how today's Jews must be defeated.

That is the war Israel faces. That is the level of education in the Arab communities Jews face on a daily basis.

Jewish culture and education is what keeps many more Jews from doing exactly to the Arabs what the Arabs keep doing to the Jews.

If five Arab nations hadn't invaded territory in the British Palestinian mandate in 1948, and the Palestinians had accepted theIr share of the former mandate,maybe none of this would be happening.

As for the refugees; why were they not assimilated into wherever? As with Jews expelled from Arab lands, Indians from Uganda; and to take it further, 6 million DP's in Europe after WW2. What happened to them?

There aren't any refugee camps lingering from that era, as far as I know.

and the Palestinians had accepted theIr share of the former mandate

What "share" of Palestine should the Palestinians accept?

Another tricky dumb question by the King of Dumb Questions.

80% of the Mandate for Palestine is not good enough for the Arabs, call the tribes what one will, but even more of a share of the Jewish homeland is DEMANDED by you in order to make "things right".

The Jews accepted having 80% of their homeland taken from them in order to live in peace.

Unless the Arabs give up hatred and terrorism and really want peace, they will be getting no more land, because there is not more Jewish land FOR NO PEACE to give up.

GOT IT ?

Unless the Arabs give up hatred and terrorism

Oh jeese, more of Israel's terrorist canard.

 

[Sixties Fan]

Why don't you post the entire quote, for context, rather than attempting to make equivalent things which are not equivalent. It looks an awful lot like projection to me.

Here's the whole quote:

"The Palestinian people has declared war on us, and we must respond with war. Not an operation, not a slow-moving one, not low-intensity, not controlled escalation, no destruction of terror infrastructure, no targeted killings. Enough with the oblique references. This is a war. Words have meanings. This is a war. It is not a war against terror, and not a war against extremists, and not even a war against the Palestinian Authority. These too are forms of avoiding reality. This is a war between two people. Who is the enemy? The Palestinian people. Why? Ask them, they started.

I don’t know why it’s so hard for us to define reality with the simple words that language puts at our disposal. Why do we have to make up a new name for the war every other week, just to avoid calling it by its name. What’s so horrifying about understanding that the entire Palestinian people is the enemy? Every war is between two peoples, and in every war the people who started the war, that whole people, is the enemy. A declaration of war is not a war crime. Responding with war certainly is not. Nor is the use of the word “war”, nor a clear definition who the enemy is. Au contraire: the morality of war (yes, there is such a thing) is founded on the assumption that there are wars in this world, and that war is not the normal state of things, and that in wars the enemy is usually an entire people, including its elderly and its women, its cities and its villages, its property and its infrastructure.

And the morality of war knows that it is not possible to refrain from hurting enemy civilians. It does not condemn the British air force, which bombed and totally destroyed the German city of Dresden, or the US planes that destroyed the cities of Poland and wrecked half of Budapest, places whose wretched residents had never done a thing to America, but which had to be destroyed in order to win the war against evil. The morals of war do not require that Russia be brought to trial, though it bombs and destroys towns and neighborhoods in Chechnya. It does not denounce the UN Peacekeeping Forces for killing hundreds of civilians in Angola, nor the NATO forces who bombed Milosevic’s Belgrade, a city with a million civilians, elderly, babies, women, and children. The morals of war accept as correct in principle, not only politically, what America has done in Afghanistan, including the massive bombing of populated places, including the creation of a refugee stream of hundreds of thousands of people who escaped the horrors of war, for thousands of whom there is no home to return to.

And in our war this is sevenfold more correct, because the enemy soldiers hide out among the population, and it is only through its support that they can fight. Behind every terrorist stand dozens of men and women, without whom he could not engage in terrorism. Actors in the war are those who incite in mosques, who write the murderous curricula for schools, who give shelter, who provide vehicles, and all those who honor and give them their moral support. They are all enemy combatants, and their blood shall be on all their heads. Now this also includes the mothers of the martyrs, who send them to hell with flowers and kisses. They should follow their sons, nothing would be more just. They should go, as should the physical homes in which they raised the snakes. Otherwise, more little snakes will be raised there."

While the use of the term "snakes" is abhorrent here, the concept that a war between peoples can only be conducted with the support of those peoples is a valid one. Who is "they" in your quote? The ACTORS who contribute to the war through means other than physical weapons: the imams who incite, the educators who teach, the mothers who raise martyrs, the populace who shelter and celebrate, the government which pays.

This is in NO WAY a call for "vermin control" or genocide. Nor does it reject the status of "civilian". Nor does it claim that people have no right to life. It is the recognition that there is more to war than those who hold the stones in slings or load bullets into guns and that the responsibility lies with ALL the actors. It says (eloquently until the "snakes" part) that the responsibility rests with those who bring war and that the SOLUTION to war is not to stop the guns, its to stop the support.



rylah Is there a connotation to the Hebrew word for "snake" which may be not understood by English speakers?

It absolutely claims their families are not civilians and have no rights to life. It labels the entire Palestinian people as the enemy.

And that is what the facts on the ground. It doesn't matter to Israel who it kills. Men, women, old people, children, all seem to be "legitimate" targets.

Palestine has no army. They are all civilians. The only time a civilian can be classified as a militant is when he is actively engaged in armed conflict. The vast majority of Palestinians killed are unarmed.

I disagree with that assessment...I do think most of the time Israel IS exceedingly careful about targets and minimizing collateral damage - much more so I might add than Saudi Arabia in Yemen, or Bashee and Russia in Syria to give examples.

While civilians DO at times get targeted, and legitimate journalists...I think too often investigations tend to go easy on the killers - targeting civilians is standard practice unless those civilians are actively breeching security (ie border control) and no other measures are working. On the other hand, the Palestinian militants DO have a verifiable and undeniable record of TARGETING civilians - you really can't ignore that.

RE: All The News Anti-Israel Posters Will Not Read Or Discuss
⁜→ Coyote, et al,

With any large culture or segment of people, there are subsets that one or more show definite separate and distinct attributes and characteristics. The Jewish "Settlers" of the West Bank fall into this category with malevolent and unkindly attributes and definite negative characteristics.

Why do settlers stone Palestinian kids trying to go to school?

(COMMENT)

I do not think that there is any question, that the vast majority for all Israelis (Jewish or otherwise) find the behavior of these Jewish "Settlers" of the West Bank to be abhorrent and unacceptable; → maybe even a bit ashamed by it. And this shame may be the reason that the Israelis don't talk about them. They want to disassociate themselves for this poorly disciplined aspect of their society.

Most Respectfully,
R

I absolutely agree and that is also why I think it is important NOT to broadbrush an entire people by the actions of some. I think by and large Israel is far more diverse than is recognized outside of Israel and but the settler population represents a very powerful political voice and that is problematic for long term resolutions.

NO ONE on these threads, on the Israeli Team has "broad brushed" the entire Arab population living in Gaza and in Judea and Samaria.
Your accusations have NO merit at all.

Good lord - you absolutely do. I see it all the time.

And the Jewish settlers are only defending their rights to BE in Judea and Samaria were ALL Jews were expelled from in 1948.

Oh. I see. Then I guess we can apply the same logic to Palestinian violence..."they are only defending their rights"? You have a lot in common with Tinmoore on this.

Peace is the long term solution. But that is something neither Hamas nor the PA/PLO/Fatah want. Never did and never will.

As long as they follow in Mohammad's example of Waiting, and Waiting, until they get what they want, as he did, there will not be Peace with those Arab leaders. They will not allow it.

Many Arabs in those areas want peace with Israel. But they are few and powerless.

Hamas is also operating in Judea and Samaria and in Israel as well.

What peace and resolution can come from their insistence in teaching all Arabs that the Jews stole Muslim land and that Jews have no right to live?

And what do Jews learn...about Palestinians? Both sides have significant problems here...Are Palestinian Textbooks Actually Any Worse Than Israeli Textbooks?

None.

First, that ideology needs to go. Short of that, the Arabs need to be definitely defeated and their ability to terrorize and kill at will put to an end.
Iran, Qatar, the EU and others are also a problem because they all feed the Arab leaders with money for more ways to attack Israel and the Jews who live there and in area C.

Come up with some ideas on how to put an end to the ideology, the Charters which call for the destruction of Israel and the death of all Jews, and the endless money and weapons going to Hamas and other terrorists and we will start getting somewhere, even if the Arabs (Arab League) will never agree to it.

Israel and the Arab states need to sit down and work out solutions. Then bring in the Palestinians. There is no defined leadership to work with. Ideology? Well here you are broadbrushing.

Where have I Broadbrushed it, when I constantly give examples of Arabs who do live and peace with Jews and want to live in peace with Israel, all the Arabs who get to come to work in Israel, or study in Israel, or get medical help in Israel?

So, you are denying that because all Jews were expelled from their homes in 1948 from that area, that the Jews who now live there would be a bit, if not a lot apprehensive with all the violence coming their way and the endless failures at making the PA come to even discuss a Peace Treaty?
They are supposed to just sit there and take it, I guess.

I really do not know of many First Nation tribes in the Americas, who simply stood by and allowed themselves to be attacked and their lands just taken by the Europeans whether they were doing it by government consent or by their own will, do you?

The Palestinians not only THINK that they have the right to attack Jews, it is written in the PLO charter that they should do so. As I said before, not all Arabs want to attack Jews, many want a normal life, a decent job and salary and that is why there are thousands of them working not only in Israel but in the villages in Judea and Samaria, DESPITE Habbas having attempted to forbid them from doing so a few times. Why would he do that?

And do show me exactly in which Israeli textbooks Jews are being taught that the Arabs are the enemy and inciting them to kill the Arabs anywhere they find them?

Are you aware that many Arab schools in Israel are now opting for the Israeli curriculum which does not teach their children that the Jews are evil and to go out and kill them?

And I will say this ONE MORE TIME.

You are reading mostly, if not ONLY anti Israel sources. I can tell it. Most of us, if not all of us can tell that that is where you get all of your information and all of your links where nothing but bad things about Israeli Jews and policies are coming from. The one about the textbooks is a clear example of it.


When you start reading both sources and then making an actual conclusion from both, and not just one source, you may start to come to see the issues as they really have been and as they really are, and WHY there is no hope for a Peace Treaty with the PA or Hamas with their insistence in following Mohammad's ideology called Islam = Submission.

They want, and will only accept Submission from the Jewish people, exactly as they had it for 1300 years before Israel came to be in 1948.

 

[Coyote]

RE: All The News Anti-Israel Posters Will Not Read Or Discuss
⁜→ theliq, et al,

Well, actually, I was not talking about "Zionists."

(COMMENT)

❖ Not all Israelis are Jews.
❖ Not all Jews are Zionists.
❖ Not all Zionists are Settlers.​

Each nation, state and territorial government has its own immigration laws and its own understanding as to what it means to be an "illegal alien."

There is no question about the following facts.

❖ The Allied Powers assumed the Title and Rights to the territory that was formerly under the Mandate.
❖ The Allied Powers agree that under the Ttile and Rights the assumed by Treaty Law, they would establish a Jewish national Home in the territory.
❖ The Allied Powers assume that under the Ttile and Rights the assumed by Treaty Law, to facilitate Jewish immigration under suitable conditions and shall encourage immigration to "all Jews who are willing to assist in the establishment of the Jewish National Home."​

Where is the "illegal immigration" criteria?

(COMMENT)

What lawful entity actually stipulates that?

View attachment 235335
​

Zionism is the political movement for national liberation. This movement includes the belief that:

◈ The Jewish people have the right to self-determination.
◈ The Jewish people have the right to realize their self-determination.
◈ The Jewish people have a right to become a nation like any other nation.​

These are not "terrorist view" but the views held currently under international law and expressed by the Arab Palestinian People.

IF it is the case that the "Zionists are a Terrorist Organization" → THEN it must be the case the Arab Palestinian are equally guilty.

On the matter of "racism," the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) derive this belief from A/RES/3379 (XXX) 10 November 1975 which Determines that zionism is a form of racism and racial discrimination. What the HoAP most often forget to disclose (intentionally) is that in A/RES/46/86 16 December 1991 the UN specifically corrected the error and decided to "revoke the determination contained in its resolution 3379 (XXX) of 10 November 1975." The HoAP do this to perpetuate the myths.

(COMMENT)

A "cult," by definition, is dealing with a religious belief directed towards a very specific idea. Zionism is NOT a religious belief structure; but a national liberation movement.

View attachment 235339
​

As you will note, Article 2, Section 1, The Constitution of the WZO updated November 2017, specifically speaks to the aims of Zionism secured under public law.

Most Respectfully,
R

◈ The Jewish people have the right to self-determination.
◈ The Jewish people have the right to realize their self-determination.
◈ The Jewish people have a right to become a nation like any other nation.

And, according to you, the Palestinians do not have rights.

The Palestinian people's have those same exact rights.

They just don't have the right to murder civilians. No one has that right.

Israel murders civilians all the time yet Palestinian resistance is expected to be pristine. If the international community would enforce international law, that problem would be solved.

No they are not expected to be pristine. Just, for a start - stop targeting civilians. Explain please how you can justify creeping into a house at night and murdering every inhabitent right down to the infant? How is that NOT deliberately targeting civilians? How is that in any remote way self defense?

Israel kills Palestinian civilians by the thousands and you talk about one family.

Double standard much?

When Hamas is lobbing rockets into Israel's civilian centers how should Israel react?

 

[Sixties Fan]

RE: All The News Anti-Israel Posters Will Not Read Or Discuss
⁜→ Coyote, et al,

With any large culture or segment of people, there are subsets that one or more show definite separate and distinct attributes and characteristics. The Jewish "Settlers" of the West Bank fall into this category with malevolent and unkindly attributes and definite negative characteristics.

(COMMENT)

I do not think that there is any question, that the vast majority for all Israelis (Jewish or otherwise) find the behavior of these Jewish "Settlers" of the West Bank to be abhorrent and unacceptable; → maybe even a bit ashamed by it. And this shame may be the reason that the Israelis don't talk about them. They want to disassociate themselves for this poorly disciplined aspect of their society.

Most Respectfully,
R

Some posters insist in picking an extremely small group of Jews who have been harassed and attacked endlessly and have had enough of it and are giving back what they have been given.

It is preferable that they would not act as the Arabs do, but 98 years of Arab attacks, rapes, dismemberment, expulsions, murders of Jews does finally hit some Jews in Israel and in Judea and Samaria and they say enough and start acting on their own in the bad way we see.

The number of times some Jews have attacked Arabs is extremely low when one looks at the endless attacks by Arabs on Jews.

We are not seeing Jews with cars, screw drivers, knives, molotovs, etc going out right after we hear it in the news and do to the Arabs what is constantly being done to the Jews.

There has not been one fiery or explosive balloon sent to Gaza or Areas A and B by any Jews.

As it has been reminded, it is a war.
It has been going on since 1920 when the Husseini Clan decided to start riots threatening all Jews in Mandate Palestine.

Many in the Haredi, and other religious groups, seem to be behind the attacks on Arabs, but it is not because they have not constantly experienced being attacked themselves and being constantly told that they have "stolen" Arab land, when it is the Jews who were expelled from this historical Jewish land of Judea and Samaria in 1948 and everything, land, schools, homes, businesses, etc, stolen from them by the Hashemite Arabs.

And let us not forget, that after Jews were expelled by their own government in 2005 from Gaza and cities in Judea and Samaria, the Arab leaders and the population only see more possibilities of taking more land from the Jews.

Why? Because they are not Muslims.

Because the Arabs managed to get 80% of the Mandate for Palestine designed for the re-creation of the Jewish State, and will never be happy until the other 20% is also in Arab/Muslim hands.

When Muslims accuse the land of being stolen, they are only referring to the fact that the land used to be in Muslim hands, and they want it all to be in Muslim hands, it does not matter which Arab tribe gets it.

But Jews, as we all know, according to Islam, does not have the right to be sovereign over any part of once conquered Muslim land.

Since 1920. It is a WAR. It continues to be the Muslim war against the Jewish rights to be sovereign over any part of their ancient homeland.

Israel does its part, even if not always, in punishing crimes.
Hamas gives candies. The PA, like Hamas, names streets, parks, etc after any Arab who kills Jews.

Jews are not seen as humans. They follow the teachings and repeat constantly that Jews are Ape and Pigs. And that one must remember the Arabian Jewish tribe which was decapitated and turn to slavery, in Khaybar. How those Jews were defeated, is how today's Jews must be defeated.

That is the war Israel faces. That is the level of education in the Arab communities Jews face on a daily basis.

Jewish culture and education is what keeps many more Jews from doing exactly to the Arabs what the Arabs keep doing to the Jews.

If five Arab nations hadn't invaded territory in the British Palestinian mandate in 1948, and the Palestinians had accepted theIr share of the former mandate,maybe none of this would be happening.

As for the refugees; why were they not assimilated into wherever? As with Jews expelled from Arab lands, Indians from Uganda; and to take it further, 6 million DP's in Europe after WW2. What happened to them?

There aren't any refugee camps lingering from that era, as far as I know.

and the Palestinians had accepted theIr share of the former mandate

What "share" of Palestine should the Palestinians accept?

Another tricky dumb question by the King of Dumb Questions.

80% of the Mandate for Palestine is not good enough for the Arabs, call the tribes what one will, but even more of a share of the Jewish homeland is DEMANDED by you in order to make "things right".

The Jews accepted having 80% of their homeland taken from them in order to live in peace.

Unless the Arabs give up hatred and terrorism and really want peace, they will be getting no more land, because there is not more Jewish land FOR NO PEACE to give up.

GOT IT ?

Unless the Arabs give up hatred and terrorism

Oh jeese, more of Israel's terrorist canard.

More of Tinmore's inability to come up with original stuff.
Why is that Tinmore?
Why do you lie for the Muslims, as much as you do?

 

[RoccoR]

RE: All The News Anti-Israel Posters Will Not Read Or Discuss
⁜→ theliq, et al,

I never said that "the Palestinians do not have rights." I don't think you will find anyone in this discussion group that will say I have.

◈ The Jewish people have the right to self-determination.
◈ The Jewish people have the right to realize their self-determination.
◈ The Jewish people have a right to become a nation like any other nation.

And, according to you, the Palestinians do not have rights.

(COMMENT)

I have explained to your the two big points of overusing this "I have rights" mantra:

◈ That there is a difference between negative rights and positive rights.

The Arab Palestinian has a privilege of "self-determination and independence"
IF and only IF
The Arab Palestinian has no duty not to establish "self-determination and independence".
............................................................................................... The Hohfeldian Analytical System
..........................................................................................................................Standford Encyclopedia of Philosophy
................................................................First published Mon Dec 19, 2005; substantive revision Wed Sep 9, 2015
​

• Fundamentally, positive rights require others to provide you with either a good or service.
• A negative right, on the other hand, only requires others to abstain from interfering with your actions.​

◈ That the Rights of the Arab Palestinian do not outweigth the rights of the Israeli.


Most Respectfully,
R

 

[Coyote]

It absolutely claims their families are not civilians and have no rights to life. It labels the entire Palestinian people as the enemy.

And that is what the facts on the ground. It doesn't matter to Israel who it kills. Men, women, old people, children, all seem to be "legitimate" targets.

Palestine has no army. They are all civilians. The only time a civilian can be classified as a militant is when he is actively engaged in armed conflict. The vast majority of Palestinians killed are unarmed.

I disagree with that assessment...I do think most of the time Israel IS exceedingly careful about targets and minimizing collateral damage - much more so I might add than Saudi Arabia in Yemen, or Bashee and Russia in Syria to give examples.

While civilians DO at times get targeted, and legitimate journalists...I think too often investigations tend to go easy on the killers - targeting civilians is standard practice unless those civilians are actively breeching security (ie border control) and no other measures are working. On the other hand, the Palestinian militants DO have a verifiable and undeniable record of TARGETING civilians - you really can't ignore that.

RE: All The News Anti-Israel Posters Will Not Read Or Discuss
⁜→ Coyote, et al,

With any large culture or segment of people, there are subsets that one or more show definite separate and distinct attributes and characteristics. The Jewish "Settlers" of the West Bank fall into this category with malevolent and unkindly attributes and definite negative characteristics.

Why do settlers stone Palestinian kids trying to go to school?

(COMMENT)

I do not think that there is any question, that the vast majority for all Israelis (Jewish or otherwise) find the behavior of these Jewish "Settlers" of the West Bank to be abhorrent and unacceptable; → maybe even a bit ashamed by it. And this shame may be the reason that the Israelis don't talk about them. They want to disassociate themselves for this poorly disciplined aspect of their society.

Most Respectfully,
R

I absolutely agree and that is also why I think it is important NOT to broadbrush an entire people by the actions of some. I think by and large Israel is far more diverse than is recognized outside of Israel and but the settler population represents a very powerful political voice and that is problematic for long term resolutions.

NO ONE on these threads, on the Israeli Team has "broad brushed" the entire Arab population living in Gaza and in Judea and Samaria.
Your accusations have NO merit at all.

Good lord - you absolutely do. I see it all the time.

And the Jewish settlers are only defending their rights to BE in Judea and Samaria were ALL Jews were expelled from in 1948.

Oh. I see. Then I guess we can apply the same logic to Palestinian violence..."they are only defending their rights"? You have a lot in common with Tinmoore on this.

Peace is the long term solution. But that is something neither Hamas nor the PA/PLO/Fatah want. Never did and never will.

As long as they follow in Mohammad's example of Waiting, and Waiting, until they get what they want, as he did, there will not be Peace with those Arab leaders. They will not allow it.

Many Arabs in those areas want peace with Israel. But they are few and powerless.

Hamas is also operating in Judea and Samaria and in Israel as well.

What peace and resolution can come from their insistence in teaching all Arabs that the Jews stole Muslim land and that Jews have no right to live?

And what do Jews learn...about Palestinians? Both sides have significant problems here...Are Palestinian Textbooks Actually Any Worse Than Israeli Textbooks?

None.

First, that ideology needs to go. Short of that, the Arabs need to be definitely defeated and their ability to terrorize and kill at will put to an end.
Iran, Qatar, the EU and others are also a problem because they all feed the Arab leaders with money for more ways to attack Israel and the Jews who live there and in area C.

Come up with some ideas on how to put an end to the ideology, the Charters which call for the destruction of Israel and the death of all Jews, and the endless money and weapons going to Hamas and other terrorists and we will start getting somewhere, even if the Arabs (Arab League) will never agree to it.

Israel and the Arab states need to sit down and work out solutions. Then bring in the Palestinians. There is no defined leadership to work with. Ideology? Well here you are broadbrushing.

Where have I Broadbrushed it, when I constantly give examples of Arabs who do live and peace with Jews and want to live in peace with Israel, all the Arabs who get to come to work in Israel, or study in Israel, or get medical help in Israel?

So, you are denying that because all Jews were expelled from their homes in 1948 from that area, that the Jews who now live there would be a bit, if not a lot apprehensive with all the violence coming their way and the endless failures at making the PA come to even discuss a Peace Treaty?
They are supposed to just sit there and take it, I guess.

I really do not know of many First Nation tribes in the Americas, who simply stood by and allowed themselves to be attacked and their lands just taken by the Europeans whether they were doing it by government consent or by their own will, do you?

The Palestinians not only THINK that they have the right to attack Jews, it is written in the PLO charter that they should do so. As I said before, not all Arabs want to attack Jews, many want a normal life, a decent job and salary and that is why there are thousands of them working not only in Israel but in the villages in Judea and Samaria, DESPITE Habbas having attempted to forbid them from doing so a few times. Why would he do that?

And do show me exactly in which Israeli textbooks Jews are being taught that the Arabs are the enemy and inciting them to kill the Arabs anywhere they find them?

Are you aware that many Arab schools in Israel are now opting for the Israeli curriculum which does not teach their children that the Jews are evil and to go out and kill them?

And I will say this ONE MORE TIME.

You are reading mostly, if not ONLY anti Israel sources. I can tell it. Most of us, if not all of us can tell that that is where you get all of your information and all of your links where nothing but bad things about Israeli Jews and policies are coming from. The one about the textbooks is a clear example of it.


When you start reading both sources and then making an actual conclusion from both, and not just one source, you may start to come to see the issues as they really have been and as they really are, and WHY there is no hope for a Peace Treaty with the PA or Hamas with their insistence in following Mohammad's ideology called Islam = Submission.

They want, and will only accept Submission from the Jewish people, exactly as they had it for 1300 years before Israel came to be in 1948.

I read and use mainstream sources most of the time - Israeli newspapers, Haaretz, Times etc. What sources do you use? I think you have your own anti-Palestinian bias here and frankly it's pretty much clear in your statement:

"...following Mohammad's ideology called Islam = Submission" a frequently used anti-muslim canard.

Submission to God. Not unlike Christianity - submission to God and God will take care of you.

 

[RoccoR]

RE: All The News Anti-Israel Posters Will Not Read Or Discuss
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

"Clean up after???"

As for the refugees; why were they not assimilated into wherever?

Why is it their job to clean up after Israel?

(COMMENT)

Show me where it says that the Israeli's must (have a duty) to attend the refugees. Where is this duty spelled out?

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

RE: All The News Anti-Israel Posters Will Not Read Or Discuss
⁜→ Coyote, et al,

With any large culture or segment of people, there are subsets that one or more show definite separate and distinct attributes and characteristics. The Jewish "Settlers" of the West Bank fall into this category with malevolent and unkindly attributes and definite negative characteristics.

Why do settlers stone Palestinian kids trying to go to school?

(COMMENT)

I do not think that there is any question, that the vast majority for all Israelis (Jewish or otherwise) find the behavior of these Jewish "Settlers" of the West Bank to be abhorrent and unacceptable; → maybe even a bit ashamed by it. And this shame may be the reason that the Israelis don't talk about them. They want to disassociate themselves for this poorly disciplined aspect of their society.

Most Respectfully,
R

Some posters insist in picking an extremely small group of Jews who have been harassed and attacked endlessly and have had enough of it and are giving back what they have been given.

It is preferable that they would not act as the Arabs do, but 98 years of Arab attacks, rapes, dismemberment, expulsions, murders of Jews does finally hit some Jews in Israel and in Judea and Samaria and they say enough and start acting on their own in the bad way we see.

The number of times some Jews have attacked Arabs is extremely low when one looks at the endless attacks by Arabs on Jews.

We are not seeing Jews with cars, screw drivers, knives, molotovs, etc going out right after we hear it in the news and do to the Arabs what is constantly being done to the Jews.

There has not been one fiery or explosive balloon sent to Gaza or Areas A and B by any Jews.

As it has been reminded, it is a war.
It has been going on since 1920 when the Husseini Clan decided to start riots threatening all Jews in Mandate Palestine.

Many in the Haredi, and other religious groups, seem to be behind the attacks on Arabs, but it is not because they have not constantly experienced being attacked themselves and being constantly told that they have "stolen" Arab land, when it is the Jews who were expelled from this historical Jewish land of Judea and Samaria in 1948 and everything, land, schools, homes, businesses, etc, stolen from them by the Hashemite Arabs.

And let us not forget, that after Jews were expelled by their own government in 2005 from Gaza and cities in Judea and Samaria, the Arab leaders and the population only see more possibilities of taking more land from the Jews.

Why? Because they are not Muslims.

Because the Arabs managed to get 80% of the Mandate for Palestine designed for the re-creation of the Jewish State, and will never be happy until the other 20% is also in Arab/Muslim hands.

When Muslims accuse the land of being stolen, they are only referring to the fact that the land used to be in Muslim hands, and they want it all to be in Muslim hands, it does not matter which Arab tribe gets it.

But Jews, as we all know, according to Islam, does not have the right to be sovereign over any part of once conquered Muslim land.

Since 1920. It is a WAR. It continues to be the Muslim war against the Jewish rights to be sovereign over any part of their ancient homeland.

Israel does its part, even if not always, in punishing crimes.
Hamas gives candies. The PA, like Hamas, names streets, parks, etc after any Arab who kills Jews.

Jews are not seen as humans. They follow the teachings and repeat constantly that Jews are Ape and Pigs. And that one must remember the Arabian Jewish tribe which was decapitated and turn to slavery, in Khaybar. How those Jews were defeated, is how today's Jews must be defeated.

That is the war Israel faces. That is the level of education in the Arab communities Jews face on a daily basis.

Jewish culture and education is what keeps many more Jews from doing exactly to the Arabs what the Arabs keep doing to the Jews.

If five Arab nations hadn't invaded territory in the British Palestinian mandate in 1948, and the Palestinians had accepted theIr share of the former mandate,maybe none of this would be happening.

As for the refugees; why were they not assimilated into wherever? As with Jews expelled from Arab lands, Indians from Uganda; and to take it further, 6 million DP's in Europe after WW2. What happened to them?

There aren't any refugee camps lingering from that era, as far as I know.

As for the refugees; why were they not assimilated into wherever?

Why is it their job to clean up after Israel?

Because the Arab nations PROLONGED their refugee status far beyond what should have been done. Because they used the Palestinian's refugee status for their own political purposes. Why are the Palestinians so abysmally treated in some of those countries? Stateless, citizenless, rightless. Palestinian refugees in Syria couldn't even FLEE ISIS because they had no papers, no existence and NO PLACE TO GO and that is not just at Israel's feet! It's a combined responsibility that has gone ignored for too long!

Not their job. They need to be back home.

 

[Sixties Fan]

And that is what the facts on the ground. It doesn't matter to Israel who it kills. Men, women, old people, children, all seem to be "legitimate" targets.

Palestine has no army. They are all civilians. The only time a civilian can be classified as a militant is when he is actively engaged in armed conflict. The vast majority of Palestinians killed are unarmed.

I disagree with that assessment...I do think most of the time Israel IS exceedingly careful about targets and minimizing collateral damage - much more so I might add than Saudi Arabia in Yemen, or Bashee and Russia in Syria to give examples.

While civilians DO at times get targeted, and legitimate journalists...I think too often investigations tend to go easy on the killers - targeting civilians is standard practice unless those civilians are actively breeching security (ie border control) and no other measures are working. On the other hand, the Palestinian militants DO have a verifiable and undeniable record of TARGETING civilians - you really can't ignore that.

RE: All The News Anti-Israel Posters Will Not Read Or Discuss
⁜→ Coyote, et al,

With any large culture or segment of people, there are subsets that one or more show definite separate and distinct attributes and characteristics. The Jewish "Settlers" of the West Bank fall into this category with malevolent and unkindly attributes and definite negative characteristics.

(COMMENT)

I do not think that there is any question, that the vast majority for all Israelis (Jewish or otherwise) find the behavior of these Jewish "Settlers" of the West Bank to be abhorrent and unacceptable; → maybe even a bit ashamed by it. And this shame may be the reason that the Israelis don't talk about them. They want to disassociate themselves for this poorly disciplined aspect of their society.

Most Respectfully,
R

I absolutely agree and that is also why I think it is important NOT to broadbrush an entire people by the actions of some. I think by and large Israel is far more diverse than is recognized outside of Israel and but the settler population represents a very powerful political voice and that is problematic for long term resolutions.

NO ONE on these threads, on the Israeli Team has "broad brushed" the entire Arab population living in Gaza and in Judea and Samaria.
Your accusations have NO merit at all.

Good lord - you absolutely do. I see it all the time.

And the Jewish settlers are only defending their rights to BE in Judea and Samaria were ALL Jews were expelled from in 1948.

Oh. I see. Then I guess we can apply the same logic to Palestinian violence..."they are only defending their rights"? You have a lot in common with Tinmoore on this.

Peace is the long term solution. But that is something neither Hamas nor the PA/PLO/Fatah want. Never did and never will.

As long as they follow in Mohammad's example of Waiting, and Waiting, until they get what they want, as he did, there will not be Peace with those Arab leaders. They will not allow it.

Many Arabs in those areas want peace with Israel. But they are few and powerless.

Hamas is also operating in Judea and Samaria and in Israel as well.

What peace and resolution can come from their insistence in teaching all Arabs that the Jews stole Muslim land and that Jews have no right to live?

And what do Jews learn...about Palestinians? Both sides have significant problems here...Are Palestinian Textbooks Actually Any Worse Than Israeli Textbooks?

None.

First, that ideology needs to go. Short of that, the Arabs need to be definitely defeated and their ability to terrorize and kill at will put to an end.
Iran, Qatar, the EU and others are also a problem because they all feed the Arab leaders with money for more ways to attack Israel and the Jews who live there and in area C.

Come up with some ideas on how to put an end to the ideology, the Charters which call for the destruction of Israel and the death of all Jews, and the endless money and weapons going to Hamas and other terrorists and we will start getting somewhere, even if the Arabs (Arab League) will never agree to it.

Israel and the Arab states need to sit down and work out solutions. Then bring in the Palestinians. There is no defined leadership to work with. Ideology? Well here you are broadbrushing.

Where have I Broadbrushed it, when I constantly give examples of Arabs who do live and peace with Jews and want to live in peace with Israel, all the Arabs who get to come to work in Israel, or study in Israel, or get medical help in Israel?

So, you are denying that because all Jews were expelled from their homes in 1948 from that area, that the Jews who now live there would be a bit, if not a lot apprehensive with all the violence coming their way and the endless failures at making the PA come to even discuss a Peace Treaty?
They are supposed to just sit there and take it, I guess.

I really do not know of many First Nation tribes in the Americas, who simply stood by and allowed themselves to be attacked and their lands just taken by the Europeans whether they were doing it by government consent or by their own will, do you?

The Palestinians not only THINK that they have the right to attack Jews, it is written in the PLO charter that they should do so. As I said before, not all Arabs want to attack Jews, many want a normal life, a decent job and salary and that is why there are thousands of them working not only in Israel but in the villages in Judea and Samaria, DESPITE Habbas having attempted to forbid them from doing so a few times. Why would he do that?

And do show me exactly in which Israeli textbooks Jews are being taught that the Arabs are the enemy and inciting them to kill the Arabs anywhere they find them?

Are you aware that many Arab schools in Israel are now opting for the Israeli curriculum which does not teach their children that the Jews are evil and to go out and kill them?

And I will say this ONE MORE TIME.

You are reading mostly, if not ONLY anti Israel sources. I can tell it. Most of us, if not all of us can tell that that is where you get all of your information and all of your links where nothing but bad things about Israeli Jews and policies are coming from. The one about the textbooks is a clear example of it.


When you start reading both sources and then making an actual conclusion from both, and not just one source, you may start to come to see the issues as they really have been and as they really are, and WHY there is no hope for a Peace Treaty with the PA or Hamas with their insistence in following Mohammad's ideology called Islam = Submission.

They want, and will only accept Submission from the Jewish people, exactly as they had it for 1300 years before Israel came to be in 1948.

I read and use mainstream sources most of the time - Israeli newspapers, Haaretz, Times etc. What sources do you use? I think you have your own anti-Palestinian bias here and frankly it's pretty much clear in your statement:

"...following Mohammad's ideology called Islam = Submission" a frequently used anti-muslim canard.

Submission to God. Not unlike Christianity - submission to God and God will take care of you.

You clearly do not know or understand Islam.

And you think that the whole Arab world has a business in bringing peace between Israel and the Palestinians, when it was the whole Arab world which created the Arab League in order to destroy Israel. And it still exists and their intent of destroying Israel continues to exist.

Hamas and the PLO ideology comes from Islam. From their Prophet who defeated the Jews in Khaybar. Which is why so many of them love to repeat
"Remember Khaybar" at the Jews.

Having a Peace treaty with Egypt and Jordan has not stopped those two countries from continuing to allow the incitement of so many Arabs in those countries against Israel and the Jews. It comes up in the news all the time how some Egyptian or Jordanian person or group wants the treaty to be dissolved.

Why can't ALL Muslim countries simply end their education and incitement against Israel and the Jews?
Why can't they make peace with Israel ? What has stopped them, so far?

Why does Iran and Qatar and the EU, amongst others, continue to fund the Arabs of Palestine, if they have no intention of making peace with Israel AT ALL?

Do not mistake Islam for Christianity.

And in BOTH, Jews have been assaulted and murdered or forced to convert, endlessly because of the belief in those gods, and the belief that the Jews must submit to Christianity and Islam because they refused to convert to either religion.

In BOTH, Jews are seen as subhuman beings, who have brought all bad things to themselves by denying either god.

 

[P F Tinmore]

RE: All The News Anti-Israel Posters Will Not Read Or Discuss
⁜→ theliq, et al,

Well, actually, I was not talking about "Zionists."

There is a lot of SCUM that has invaded Palestine,All of Whom have NO RIGHT and NO PAST WITH THIS LAND...but the ZIONISTS COULDN'T GIVE A SHIT BECAUSE THEY ARE ILLEGAL ALIENS,

(COMMENT)

❖ Not all Israelis are Jews.
❖ Not all Jews are Zionists.
❖ Not all Zionists are Settlers.​

Each nation, state and territorial government has its own immigration laws and its own understanding as to what it means to be an "illegal alien."

There is no question about the following facts.

❖ The Allied Powers assumed the Title and Rights to the territory that was formerly under the Mandate.
❖ The Allied Powers agree that under the Ttile and Rights the assumed by Treaty Law, they would establish a Jewish national Home in the territory.
❖ The Allied Powers assume that under the Ttile and Rights the assumed by Treaty Law, to facilitate Jewish immigration under suitable conditions and shall encourage immigration to "all Jews who are willing to assist in the establishment of the Jewish National Home."​

Where is the "illegal immigration" criteria?

Zionists are a Terrorist Organization and Racist

(COMMENT)

What lawful entity actually stipulates that?

View attachment 235335
​

Zionism is the political movement for national liberation. This movement includes the belief that:

◈ The Jewish people have the right to self-determination.
◈ The Jewish people have the right to realize their self-determination.
◈ The Jewish people have a right to become a nation like any other nation.​

These are not "terrorist view" but the views held currently under international law and expressed by the Arab Palestinian People.

IF it is the case that the "Zionists are a Terrorist Organization" → THEN it must be the case the Arab Palestinian are equally guilty.

On the matter of "racism," the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) derive this belief from A/RES/3379 (XXX) 10 November 1975 which Determines that zionism is a form of racism and racial discrimination. What the HoAP most often forget to disclose (intentionally) is that in A/RES/46/86 16 December 1991 the UN specifically corrected the error and decided to "revoke the determination contained in its resolution 3379 (XXX) of 10 November 1975." The HoAP do this to perpetuate the myths.

with it...Can anyone explain to me what is in the head of a Zionist other than self Loathing and Hate ????? , but they believe somehow their Cult is respectable...And I agree everyone should Hate Zionism it is a Cult of Terror.

(COMMENT)

A "cult," by definition, is dealing with a religious belief directed towards a very specific idea. Zionism is NOT a religious belief structure; but a national liberation movement.

View attachment 235339
​

As you will note, Article 2, Section 1, The Constitution of the WZO updated November 2017, specifically speaks to the aims of Zionism secured under public law.

Most Respectfully,
R

◈ The Jewish people have the right to self-determination.
◈ The Jewish people have the right to realize their self-determination.
◈ The Jewish people have a right to become a nation like any other nation.

And, according to you, the Palestinians do not have rights.

The Palestinian people's have those same exact rights.

They just don't have the right to murder civilians. No one has that right.

Israel murders civilians all the time yet Palestinian resistance is expected to be pristine. If the international community would enforce international law, that problem would be solved.

No they are not expected to be pristine. Just, for a start - stop targeting civilians. Explain please how you can justify creeping into a house at night and murdering every inhabitent right down to the infant? How is that NOT deliberately targeting civilians? How is that in any remote way self defense?

Israel bombs the crap out of thousands of civilians and when the Palestinians kick up a little sand with a bottle rocket it's OMG they are targeting civilians.

Double standards much?

BTW, those rockets land in villages that the Palestinians were expelled from in 1948.

 

[Sixties Fan]

RE: All The News Anti-Israel Posters Will Not Read Or Discuss
⁜→ theliq, et al,

Well, actually, I was not talking about "Zionists."

(COMMENT)

❖ Not all Israelis are Jews.
❖ Not all Jews are Zionists.
❖ Not all Zionists are Settlers.​

Each nation, state and territorial government has its own immigration laws and its own understanding as to what it means to be an "illegal alien."

There is no question about the following facts.

❖ The Allied Powers assumed the Title and Rights to the territory that was formerly under the Mandate.
❖ The Allied Powers agree that under the Ttile and Rights the assumed by Treaty Law, they would establish a Jewish national Home in the territory.
❖ The Allied Powers assume that under the Ttile and Rights the assumed by Treaty Law, to facilitate Jewish immigration under suitable conditions and shall encourage immigration to "all Jews who are willing to assist in the establishment of the Jewish National Home."​

Where is the "illegal immigration" criteria?

(COMMENT)

What lawful entity actually stipulates that?

View attachment 235335
​

Zionism is the political movement for national liberation. This movement includes the belief that:

◈ The Jewish people have the right to self-determination.
◈ The Jewish people have the right to realize their self-determination.
◈ The Jewish people have a right to become a nation like any other nation.​

These are not "terrorist view" but the views held currently under international law and expressed by the Arab Palestinian People.

IF it is the case that the "Zionists are a Terrorist Organization" → THEN it must be the case the Arab Palestinian are equally guilty.

On the matter of "racism," the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) derive this belief from A/RES/3379 (XXX) 10 November 1975 which Determines that zionism is a form of racism and racial discrimination. What the HoAP most often forget to disclose (intentionally) is that in A/RES/46/86 16 December 1991 the UN specifically corrected the error and decided to "revoke the determination contained in its resolution 3379 (XXX) of 10 November 1975." The HoAP do this to perpetuate the myths.

(COMMENT)

A "cult," by definition, is dealing with a religious belief directed towards a very specific idea. Zionism is NOT a religious belief structure; but a national liberation movement.

View attachment 235339
​

As you will note, Article 2, Section 1, The Constitution of the WZO updated November 2017, specifically speaks to the aims of Zionism secured under public law.

Most Respectfully,
R

◈ The Jewish people have the right to self-determination.
◈ The Jewish people have the right to realize their self-determination.
◈ The Jewish people have a right to become a nation like any other nation.

And, according to you, the Palestinians do not have rights.

The Palestinian people's have those same exact rights.

They just don't have the right to murder civilians. No one has that right.

Israel murders civilians all the time yet Palestinian resistance is expected to be pristine. If the international community would enforce international law, that problem would be solved.

No they are not expected to be pristine. Just, for a start - stop targeting civilians. Explain please how you can justify creeping into a house at night and murdering every inhabitent right down to the infant? How is that NOT deliberately targeting civilians? How is that in any remote way self defense?

Israel bombs the crap out of thousands of civilians and when the Palestinians kick up a little sand with a bottle rocket it's OMG they are targeting civilians.

Double standards much?

BTW, those rockets land in villages that the Palestinians were expelled from in 1948.

You are one of the biggest liars about what the Arab Palestinians do against Israel.

Where do you get the idea of a "bottle rocket" from, dumb, dumb?

Molotov cocktails, grenades, fiery and explosive balloons sent into Israel.
They have destroyed land, killed animals and people, hit homes, schools in Israel.

Paying those false civilians and real civilians to attack, infiltrate and want to kill Jews in not a "OMG", ALL of it is a crime.

GOT IT ????

 

[P F Tinmore]

And, according to you, the Palestinians do not have rights.

The Palestinian people's have those same exact rights.

They just don't have the right to murder civilians. No one has that right.

Israel murders civilians all the time yet Palestinian resistance is expected to be pristine. If the international community would enforce international law, that problem would be solved.

No they are not expected to be pristine. Just, for a start - stop targeting civilians. Explain please how you can justify creeping into a house at night and murdering every inhabitent right down to the infant? How is that NOT deliberately targeting civilians? How is that in any remote way self defense?

Israel kills Palestinian civilians by the thousands and you talk about one family.

Double standard much?

When Hamas is lobbing rockets into Israel's civilian centers how should Israel react?

You are starting history in the middle. Why does Hamas (and others) send rockets into the towns that the Palestinians were expelled from in 1948?

Najd, Gaza - Wikipedia

 

[P F Tinmore]

RE: All The News Anti-Israel Posters Will Not Read Or Discuss
⁜→ theliq, et al,

I never said that "the Palestinians do not have rights." I don't think you will find anyone in this discussion group that will say I have.

◈ The Jewish people have the right to self-determination.
◈ The Jewish people have the right to realize their self-determination.
◈ The Jewish people have a right to become a nation like any other nation.

And, according to you, the Palestinians do not have rights.

(COMMENT)

I have explained to your the two big points of overusing this "I have rights" mantra:

◈ That there is a difference between negative rights and positive rights.

The Arab Palestinian has a privilege of "self-determination and independence"
IF and only IF
The Arab Palestinian has no duty not to establish "self-determination and independence".
............................................................................................... The Hohfeldian Analytical System
..........................................................................................................................Standford Encyclopedia of Philosophy
................................................................First published Mon Dec 19, 2005; substantive revision Wed Sep 9, 2015
​

• Fundamentally, positive rights require others to provide you with either a good or service.
• A negative right, on the other hand, only requires others to abstain from interfering with your actions.​

◈ That the Rights of the Arab Palestinian do not outweigth the rights of the Israeli.


Most Respectfully,
R

• Fundamentally, positive rights require others to provide you with either a good or service.

The Palestinians do not ask for others to provide anything.

 

[Sixties Fan]

Yesterday, the United Nations Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs (UNOCHA) and the Palestinian Authority (PA) issued a joint statement in which they launched a US$350 million appeal to "address critical humanitarian needs of Palestinians." In the appeal, they called "upon the international donors' community to help us in securing the requested funds for 2019 in order to maintain the humanitarian interventions."

Outrageously, the sum that the UN and the PA are asking the international community to donate - $350 million dollars - is equivalent to the $355 million dollars the PA allocated in its 2018 budget to fund its payments rewarding terror. This includes payments to terrorist prisoners, released terrorist prisoners, and to the families of the so-called "Martyrs" - i.e., terrorists killed while carrying out attacks, including suicide bombers.

(full article online)

UN appeals to the world to fund the PA’s “Pay for Slay” policy - PMW Bulletins

 

[P F Tinmore]

And, according to you, the Palestinians do not have rights.

The Palestinian people's have those same exact rights.

They just don't have the right to murder civilians. No one has that right.

Israel murders civilians all the time yet Palestinian resistance is expected to be pristine. If the international community would enforce international law, that problem would be solved.

No they are not expected to be pristine. Just, for a start - stop targeting civilians. Explain please how you can justify creeping into a house at night and murdering every inhabitent right down to the infant? How is that NOT deliberately targeting civilians? How is that in any remote way self defense?

Israel bombs the crap out of thousands of civilians and when the Palestinians kick up a little sand with a bottle rocket it's OMG they are targeting civilians.

Double standards much?

BTW, those rockets land in villages that the Palestinians were expelled from in 1948.

You are one of the biggest liars about what the Arab Palestinians do against Israel.

Where do you get the idea of a "bottle rocket" from, dumb, dumb?

Molotov cocktails, grenades, fiery and explosive balloons sent into Israel.
They have destroyed land, killed animals and people, hit homes, schools in Israel.

Paying those false civilians and real civilians to attack, infiltrate and want to kill Jews in not a "OMG", ALL of it is a crime.

GOT IT ????