Americans are now utterly intolerant of ever being told they’re wrong about almost anything

[Correll]

Writer Tom Nichols' efforts here will almost certainly be wasted, but it sure would be nice if this piece got around a bit:

Americans are now utterly intolerant of ever being told they’re wrong about almost anything

From the piece, my bold:

This isn't just human nature, but the result of a narcissism that took root in American society after the 1960s and has been growing ever since. Surrounded by affluence, enabled by the internet, and empowered by an educational system that prizes self-esteem over achievement, Americans have become more opinionated even as they have become less informed, and are now utterly intolerant of ever being told they’re wrong about almost anything.

Our republic thrives on open debate and the fair consideration of evidence. When our ability to maintain those democratic habits collapses, our system of government, along with our well-being as a people and a nation, will be in danger. There are a few steps we can take, including treating cable and the internet as we would treat our diet: by exercising portion control, healthy choices, and a varied mixture. We should especially make an effort to consider other sources that challenge us.

More important, we need to start listening to each other with a greater assumption of good will. Cable news has become a gladiatorial exercise, but that doesn’t mean each of us must approach conversation as a fight to the finish.

We must come out from behind our keyboards and smartphones and televisions and engage each other as citizens, rather than opponents. In an age of binary, win-at-all-costs politics, this is a tall order. But citizens need to be better examples to our political and media leaders than they’ve been to us.

There is still time to reconsider the path we’ve set upon in the past few decades, but one thing should be clear: We cannot continue this way much longer and survive as a vibrant democracy.
.

THe leftist don't have "good will" towards America or Americans.


Hillary showed that, when she told half the nation that the other half was out to get them.


Rightwinger shows that when he gloats about the glorious coming One Party State where dems will be able to dismiss the concerns of whites and rule unaccountably.


I wish that I could assume that the other has good will, but that would be me lying to myself.

At some point, regardless of which "side" is at fault, we're going to need someone to rise above this and be the first to be the adult in the room.

Unless we have decided as a country that somehow this is the most constructive environment for solving our problems.
.

Sorry, Mac, my pretending that people like Guno, and Rightwinger and Hillary have "Good will" to me, would just be me being a fool.

A big part of the problem, if not THE problem, is that a significant portion of this country believes that people like me, have no legitimacy pursuing my interests or agenda.

Indeed, that we deserve to have our interests HARMED to make up for past injustices or in the name of fairness or some such bullshit.


This IS a fight to the finish.

Well, I'm not saying that those who disagree with you are of good will. Certainly that's the problem, it's essentially the norm to NOT be.

That's pretty much the problem - no one wants to be first to put out a hand. I don't know how that gets fixed.

When you say "fight to the finish", what would that look like?
.

When Trump won, Rightwinger, who had been among the worst of the smug lefties crowing about how he could not win, admitted that he was wrong, and that I had been completely right.

I gave him kudos for his honesty and, hopeful that that reality check would open up his mind, politely asked if he could consider the possibility that other things he was completely sure about might also not be.


HIs initial response was restrained.


SINCE then, for reasons that we can speculate on, he has reverted to type and if anything is MORE partisan and hateful than ever, with even less pretense of rational debate.

 

[Mac1958]

Writer Tom Nichols' efforts here will almost certainly be wasted, but it sure would be nice if this piece got around a bit:

Americans are now utterly intolerant of ever being told they’re wrong about almost anything

From the piece, my bold:

This isn't just human nature, but the result of a narcissism that took root in American society after the 1960s and has been growing ever since. Surrounded by affluence, enabled by the internet, and empowered by an educational system that prizes self-esteem over achievement, Americans have become more opinionated even as they have become less informed, and are now utterly intolerant of ever being told they’re wrong about almost anything.

Our republic thrives on open debate and the fair consideration of evidence. When our ability to maintain those democratic habits collapses, our system of government, along with our well-being as a people and a nation, will be in danger. There are a few steps we can take, including treating cable and the internet as we would treat our diet: by exercising portion control, healthy choices, and a varied mixture. We should especially make an effort to consider other sources that challenge us.

More important, we need to start listening to each other with a greater assumption of good will. Cable news has become a gladiatorial exercise, but that doesn’t mean each of us must approach conversation as a fight to the finish.

We must come out from behind our keyboards and smartphones and televisions and engage each other as citizens, rather than opponents. In an age of binary, win-at-all-costs politics, this is a tall order. But citizens need to be better examples to our political and media leaders than they’ve been to us.

There is still time to reconsider the path we’ve set upon in the past few decades, but one thing should be clear: We cannot continue this way much longer and survive as a vibrant democracy.
.

THe leftist don't have "good will" towards America or Americans.


Hillary showed that, when she told half the nation that the other half was out to get them.


Rightwinger shows that when he gloats about the glorious coming One Party State where dems will be able to dismiss the concerns of whites and rule unaccountably.


I wish that I could assume that the other has good will, but that would be me lying to myself.

At some point, regardless of which "side" is at fault, we're going to need someone to rise above this and be the first to be the adult in the room.

Unless we have decided as a country that somehow this is the most constructive environment for solving our problems.
.

Sorry, Mac, my pretending that people like Guno, and Rightwinger and Hillary have "Good will" to me, would just be me being a fool.

A big part of the problem, if not THE problem, is that a significant portion of this country believes that people like me, have no legitimacy pursuing my interests or agenda.

Indeed, that we deserve to have our interests HARMED to make up for past injustices or in the name of fairness or some such bullshit.


This IS a fight to the finish.

Well, I'm not saying that those who disagree with you are of good will. Certainly that's the problem, it's essentially the norm to NOT be.

That's pretty much the problem - no one wants to be first to put out a hand. I don't know how that gets fixed.

When you say "fight to the finish", what would that look like?
.

When Trump won, Rightwinger, who had been among the worst of the smug lefties crowing about how he could not win, admitted that he was wrong, and that I had been completely right.

I gave him kudos for his honesty and, hopeful that that reality check would open up his mind, politely asked if he could consider the possibility that other things he was completely sure about might also not be.


HIs initial response was restrained.


SINCE then, for reasons that we can speculate on, he has reverted to type and if anything is MORE partisan and hateful than ever, with even less pretense of rational debate.

That's the way it is right now, and the way it's gonna be until the environment improves.

IF the environment improves. No assumptions.
.

 

[Correll]

In much of the discussion I've encountered online, the issues involved rarely have decidedly right or wrong solution approaches. What I observe is a lack of objectively and, often enough, little comprehension of the issue itself. That is particularly so for economic topics, so much so that one is often reminded of Rothbard:

"It is no crime to be ignorant of economics, which is, after all, a specialized discipline and one that most people consider to be a ‘dismal science.’ But it is totally irresponsible to have a loud and vociferous opinion on economic subjects while remaining in this state of ignorance."​

When the notion and act of taking the time to become well informed on a topic, particularly specialized ones -- not just economics, but myriad others such as climate science or psychology to name but two -- is anathema to the people discussing it, confirmation bias or not, just how is one to have any sort of productive and substantive discussion about it? One cannot.

The best one can do is learn whether and how many others seem to concur with one's own stance or a different one. Well, that's little more than a poll, which might be useful if the people polled are not topically ignorant. When the polled have only their personal experiences to guide their opinion, any position that relies on the poll's majority is nothing other than an appeal to popularity. What good is that? Quotidian are history's illustrations of base popularity's inadequacy.

Where does that enmire public policy discourse? Basically, in the realm of mere entertainment, and judging by the nature of commentary in public forums, many people take amusement in being about as profligately obdurate as they possibly can.

So true. Lately, right wingers have been critical of left wingers for ridiculing them for opposing opinions. I think the ridicule comes less from the disagreement (I disagree with people I still respect quite often) than from the willful ignorance of the facts that shape the opinion.

Can you provide an example of that, please?

If I have time to chase it down, I will. A particular poster repeatedly accused me of liberal elitism for belittling him (he thought for disagreeing rather than for his willful ignorance of the subject).

accused me of liberal elitism

I've been accused of that too. I have yet to figure out what is gained by labeling someone whom one doesn't know at all, much less know well, as a liberal, conservative, or anything else. Ideas, doctrines, methodologies, etc. are either soundly developed and arrived at, or they are not. It really doesn't matter whether the person advancing them is liberal, conservative, socialist, Marxist, animist, elitist, or whatever. The antipode of derisively labelling another as "XYZ" is, of course, equally impotent.

The crux of the matter is, which side of these conversations is trying to discuss the issue and which side is using labels to avoid defending their position.


ONe can use a label to dismiss and marginalize an opponent as a substitute for addressing his point.

This is generally how I see lefties use labels today.

 

[ptbw forever]

Writer Tom Nichols' efforts here will almost certainly be wasted, but it sure would be nice if this piece got around a bit:

Americans are now utterly intolerant of ever being told they’re wrong about almost anything

From the piece, my bold:

This isn't just human nature, but the result of a narcissism that took root in American society after the 1960s and has been growing ever since. Surrounded by affluence, enabled by the internet, and empowered by an educational system that prizes self-esteem over achievement, Americans have become more opinionated even as they have become less informed, and are now utterly intolerant of ever being told they’re wrong about almost anything.

Our republic thrives on open debate and the fair consideration of evidence. When our ability to maintain those democratic habits collapses, our system of government, along with our well-being as a people and a nation, will be in danger. There are a few steps we can take, including treating cable and the internet as we would treat our diet: by exercising portion control, healthy choices, and a varied mixture. We should especially make an effort to consider other sources that challenge us.

More important, we need to start listening to each other with a greater assumption of good will. Cable news has become a gladiatorial exercise, but that doesn’t mean each of us must approach conversation as a fight to the finish.

We must come out from behind our keyboards and smartphones and televisions and engage each other as citizens, rather than opponents. In an age of binary, win-at-all-costs politics, this is a tall order. But citizens need to be better examples to our political and media leaders than they’ve been to us.

There is still time to reconsider the path we’ve set upon in the past few decades, but one thing should be clear: We cannot continue this way much longer and survive as a vibrant democracy.
.

The same sort of thing has also happened in the UK.

When the value of the pound went down, this was a sign that they were right about something and had to leave the EU. When a dwarf took a shit, this was a sign that the EU is bad and they were right about leaving the EU. It's ridiculous.

Literally the exact opposite thing happened...

You are a hack.

 

[BlindBoo]

Utterly untrue and we'll kill any somebitch who says otherwise.........

 

[ChrisL]

Writer Tom Nichols' efforts here will almost certainly be wasted, but it sure would be nice if this piece got around a bit:

Americans are now utterly intolerant of ever being told they’re wrong about almost anything

From the piece, my bold:

This isn't just human nature, but the result of a narcissism that took root in American society after the 1960s and has been growing ever since. Surrounded by affluence, enabled by the internet, and empowered by an educational system that prizes self-esteem over achievement, Americans have become more opinionated even as they have become less informed, and are now utterly intolerant of ever being told they’re wrong about almost anything.

Our republic thrives on open debate and the fair consideration of evidence. When our ability to maintain those democratic habits collapses, our system of government, along with our well-being as a people and a nation, will be in danger. There are a few steps we can take, including treating cable and the internet as we would treat our diet: by exercising portion control, healthy choices, and a varied mixture. We should especially make an effort to consider other sources that challenge us.

More important, we need to start listening to each other with a greater assumption of good will. Cable news has become a gladiatorial exercise, but that doesn’t mean each of us must approach conversation as a fight to the finish.

We must come out from behind our keyboards and smartphones and televisions and engage each other as citizens, rather than opponents. In an age of binary, win-at-all-costs politics, this is a tall order. But citizens need to be better examples to our political and media leaders than they’ve been to us.

There is still time to reconsider the path we’ve set upon in the past few decades, but one thing should be clear: We cannot continue this way much longer and survive as a vibrant democracy.
.

Shut up, you! (J/K )

 

[ptbw forever]

I think it comes back to education and what we learn as we grow up.
People lack the necessary skills to sift information and that leads to an acceptance of persuasively written propaganda.
Its about knowing when you are being played. It irritates me.
The best selling paper in the UK is the Sun. For decades it has spread social and political shite and paid up fortunes to its victims.
But it is still the best selling paper in the UK and all politicians kiss Murdochs ring in order to get the Suns blessing.
Until we can improve our education system and get some critical thinking in there we will not improve.

Murdoch can't be long for this world, can he? (Please tell me no.) I can't think of a single human being who's done more harm.

Soros....

 

[mudwhistle]

THe leftist don't have "good will" towards America or Americans.


Hillary showed that, when she told half the nation that the other half was out to get them.


Rightwinger shows that when he gloats about the glorious coming One Party State where dems will be able to dismiss the concerns of whites and rule unaccountably.


I wish that I could assume that the other has good will, but that would be me lying to myself.

At some point, regardless of which "side" is at fault, we're going to need someone to rise above this and be the first to be the adult in the room.

Unless we have decided as a country that somehow this is the most constructive environment for solving our problems.
.

Sorry, Mac, my pretending that people like Guno, and Rightwinger and Hillary have "Good will" to me, would just be me being a fool.

A big part of the problem, if not THE problem, is that a significant portion of this country believes that people like me, have no legitimacy pursuing my interests or agenda.

Indeed, that we deserve to have our interests HARMED to make up for past injustices or in the name of fairness or some such bullshit.


This IS a fight to the finish.

Well, I'm not saying that those who disagree with you are of good will. Certainly that's the problem, it's essentially the norm to NOT be.

That's pretty much the problem - no one wants to be first to put out a hand. I don't know how that gets fixed.

When you say "fight to the finish", what would that look like?
.

When Trump won, Rightwinger, who had been among the worst of the smug lefties crowing about how he could not win, admitted that he was wrong, and that I had been completely right.

I gave him kudos for his honesty and, hopeful that that reality check would open up his mind, politely asked if he could consider the possibility that other things he was completely sure about might also not be.


HIs initial response was restrained.


SINCE then, for reasons that we can speculate on, he has reverted to type and if anything is MORE partisan and hateful than ever, with even less pretense of rational debate.

That's the way it is right now, and the way it's gonna be until the environment improves.

IF the environment improves. No assumptions.
.

I don't expect improvement because we're dealing with people that cannot admit they were wrong. That Hillary lost because Trump cheated.

 

[Billo_Really]

What did English ever do to you? With spelling like that, you're the last person on earth who should be uttering "dumbass".

their wrong
coarse correction",
coarse
off coarse
publically

English, guy! Do you speak it?!

I'm sorry, my English doesn't go down that low.

 

[Marion Morrison]

What did English ever do to you? With spelling like that, you're the last person on earth who should be uttering "dumbass".

their wrong
coarse correction",
coarse
off coarse
publically

English, guy! Do you speak it?!

I'm sorry, my English doesn't go down that low.

Bro, apparently your English doesn't even English.

 

[my2¢]

Americans are now utterly intolerant of ever being told they’re wrong about almost anything

I'll join those who take issue with that.

 

[candycorn]

Writer Tom Nichols' efforts here will almost certainly be wasted, but it sure would be nice if this piece got around a bit:

Americans are now utterly intolerant of ever being told they’re wrong about almost anything

From the piece, my bold:

This isn't just human nature, but the result of a narcissism that took root in American society after the 1960s and has been growing ever since. Surrounded by affluence, enabled by the internet, and empowered by an educational system that prizes self-esteem over achievement, Americans have become more opinionated even as they have become less informed, and are now utterly intolerant of ever being told they’re wrong about almost anything.

Our republic thrives on open debate and the fair consideration of evidence. When our ability to maintain those democratic habits collapses, our system of government, along with our well-being as a people and a nation, will be in danger. There are a few steps we can take, including treating cable and the internet as we would treat our diet: by exercising portion control, healthy choices, and a varied mixture. We should especially make an effort to consider other sources that challenge us.

More important, we need to start listening to each other with a greater assumption of good will. Cable news has become a gladiatorial exercise, but that doesn’t mean each of us must approach conversation as a fight to the finish.

We must come out from behind our keyboards and smartphones and televisions and engage each other as citizens, rather than opponents. In an age of binary, win-at-all-costs politics, this is a tall order. But citizens need to be better examples to our political and media leaders than they’ve been to us.

There is still time to reconsider the path we’ve set upon in the past few decades, but one thing should be clear: We cannot continue this way much longer and survive as a vibrant democracy.
.

Great, you can now regale us of a time when a fellow poster told you that you were wrong and you agreed with them.

Obviously the point of the piece has gotten right past you. Zoom. Color me shocked.

That's okay. You're not the only hardcore partisan ideologue who saw themselves in this piece and got defensive.

As I said, I knew his efforts would be wasted on many. Which is the problem, of course.
.

Sounds as if they were wasted on you as well