Amnesty Will Not Draw Hispanics to the GOP

[g5000]

I'm Hispanic. You're not losing the war because of illegal immigration. You're losing the war because you've made "Mexicans" into boogie monsters. The tea party gets the most media time of any supporters of the GOP, and what they say makes Hispanics feel completely insulted. Thus most Hispanics connect the GOP with the tea party. At least that's my experience.

If they weren't breaking our Laws they wouldn't be treated like monsters... At least that's how it's supposed to work in civilized societies. I have no problem at all with people entering America legally... More power to them.

This is exactly the rhetoric turning off Hispanics, and not just the ones here illegally.

The only crime most illegal aliens are committing is one of leaving their families and their native land to earn money for their survival.

But to watch Fox News, you'd think they are all drunk driving on our roads and raping our women.

So if we round them all up, you going to get in your commuter car and leave your home in the suburbs to do peripatetic farm work every day?

 

[AmyNation]

I don't see how it is any different than how A cop can stop anyone of us, and demand to see our ID.

It falls along the same vein and I don't think cops should be allowed to stop and harass citizens for no reason other than a whim.

Well Technically they need Probable Cause, not just a whim.

My point however is that we expect American Citizens to have an ID, yet we say it is wrong to ask for one to Vote for example. It just makes no sense.

I don't expect every American to have ID. I grew up poor and spent several years volunteering at a food bank after high school. I know countless people who don't have ID.

 

[Dubya]

In the illegal immigration debate there are really only 2 sides that have a significant impact. The 'amnesty' crowd, and the 'deport them all' crowd. Both of these views are wrong imo but, let's be honest, they're the only politically expedient ones.

On the side of 'deport them all' you have people like Jan Brewer and Sheriff Arpaio. I'm using them as examples because they're the easiest. Their bases are so fed up with illegal immigration that they believe it should be okay to force a 'Hispanic' looking person to present proof of citizenship on demand. Anyone who is brown should be under suspicion. Legal Hispanics feel extremely insulted by that, and I assume illegal ones are pretty scared of it.

So whoa now, what I just said probably will spark some anger and a counterargument from conservatives right? I definitely over simplified the issue and missed a lot of key bits of information right?

But most people are not informed. And if you're not informed and meet people like Sheriff Arpaio, you may assume he's a colossal racist. And that is how, I believe, a majority of Hispanics feel about what the GOP thinks about them.

What's your opinion on people who think the way I do? I think people who have very close relatives in foreign countries should be able to sponsor them for American citizenship, if they can prove they can be taken care of in this country. The sponsorship should not take a very long time to be accomplished, so they can be brought here and families reunited. I don't like the word amnesty, but I believe people with close family ties in America should be put on the road to become American citizens. I think someone who has lived a long time in America as an illegal immigrant should also be put on the American citizenship road. If the person is a new arrival (and that takes deciding what that means), without family ties or is a criminal, they should be deported or serve their sentence and be deported. If they return to America and are found, they should thrown in prison for a period of time and deported. After immigration reform, I support harsh penalties for hiring an illegal immigrant and the illegal immigrant is only allowed to leave this country with very limited items and money. The rest of what they own is a fine for being here unlawfully. These rules should be openly made public at the beginning of immigration reform to encourage all illegal immigrants to participate. New arrivals who have been to America, but haven't been here long enough to qualify for citizenship should have their names included in the immigration quotas of that foreign country. The quotas should be set up as a lottery, if more people want to come to America than the quota allows. That gives the people who apply an equal chance each year. People trying to reunite with their families shouldn't have to go through a quota system.

People on the road to citizenship should be warned about criminal activity and how it can disqualify them from being an American citizen.

 

[TheOldSchool]

What's your opinion on people who think the way I do? I think people who have very close relatives in foreign countries should be able to sponsor them for American citizenship, if they can prove they can be taken care of in this country. The sponsorship should not take a very long time to be accomplished, so they can be brought here and families reunited. I don't like the word amnesty, but I believe people with close family ties in America should be put on the road to become American citizens. I think someone who has lived a long time in America as an illegal immigrant should also be put on the American citizenship road. If the person is a new arrival (and that takes deciding what that means), without family ties or is a criminal, they should be deported or serve their sentence and be deported. If they return to America and are found, they should thrown in prison for a period of time and deported. After immigration reform, I support harsh penalties for hiring an illegal immigrant and the illegal immigrant is only allowed to leave this country with very limited items and money. The rest of what they own is a fine for being here unlawfully. These rules should be openly made public at the beginning of immigration reform to encourage all illegal immigrants to participate. New arrivals who have been to America, but haven't been here long enough to qualify for citizenship should have their names included in the immigration quotas of that foreign country. The quotas should be set up as a lottery, if more people want to come to America than the quota allows. That gives the people who apply an equal chance each year. People trying to reunite with their families shouldn't have to go through a quota system.

People on the road to citizenship should be warned about criminal activity and how it can disqualify them from being an American citizen.

I like all of the things you mentioned. It's a much more realistic way of handling this issue than "enforcing the law and deporting everyone."

I think the border also has to be secured in order for your ideas to be sustainable. Whether we send troops down there or finish the wall or both.

 

[JakeStarkey]

One of the advantages of increasing immigration is to weaken nativism in the country.

 

[Dubya]

What's your opinion on people who think the way I do? I think people who have very close relatives in foreign countries should be able to sponsor them for American citizenship, if they can prove they can be taken care of in this country. The sponsorship should not take a very long time to be accomplished, so they can be brought here and families reunited. I don't like the word amnesty, but I believe people with close family ties in America should be put on the road to become American citizens. I think someone who has lived a long time in America as an illegal immigrant should also be put on the American citizenship road. If the person is a new arrival (and that takes deciding what that means), without family ties or is a criminal, they should be deported or serve their sentence and be deported. If they return to America and are found, they should thrown in prison for a period of time and deported. After immigration reform, I support harsh penalties for hiring an illegal immigrant and the illegal immigrant is only allowed to leave this country with very limited items and money. The rest of what they own is a fine for being here unlawfully. These rules should be openly made public at the beginning of immigration reform to encourage all illegal immigrants to participate. New arrivals who have been to America, but haven't been here long enough to qualify for citizenship should have their names included in the immigration quotas of that foreign country. The quotas should be set up as a lottery, if more people want to come to America than the quota allows. That gives the people who apply an equal chance each year. People trying to reunite with their families shouldn't have to go through a quota system.

People on the road to citizenship should be warned about criminal activity and how it can disqualify them from being an American citizen.

I like all of the things you mentioned. It's a much more realistic way of handling this issue than "enforcing the law and deporting everyone."

I think the border also has to be secured in order for your ideas to be sustainable. Whether we send troops down there or finish the wall or both.

I think an ID system could prevent illegal immigrants from getting jobs and along with severe penalties for hiring illegal immigrants, they wouldn't have a reason to come to America. I've written a bunch of proposals on how to use data bases to locate identity fraud. The photo ID I propose has the photo in a data base that can be checked against the individual having the ID. That data base prevents a fake ID.

I don't think you can stop people with a fence and only taking away their reasons for coming will stop them.

 

[FJO]

What's your opinion on people who think the way I do? I think people who have very close relatives in foreign countries should be able to sponsor them for American citizenship, if they can prove they can be taken care of in this country. The sponsorship should not take a very long time to be accomplished, so they can be brought here and families reunited. I don't like the word amnesty, but I believe people with close family ties in America should be put on the road to become American citizens. I think someone who has lived a long time in America as an illegal immigrant should also be put on the American citizenship road. If the person is a new arrival (and that takes deciding what that means), without family ties or is a criminal, they should be deported or serve their sentence and be deported. If they return to America and are found, they should thrown in prison for a period of time and deported. After immigration reform, I support harsh penalties for hiring an illegal immigrant and the illegal immigrant is only allowed to leave this country with very limited items and money. The rest of what they own is a fine for being here unlawfully. These rules should be openly made public at the beginning of immigration reform to encourage all illegal immigrants to participate. New arrivals who have been to America, but haven't been here long enough to qualify for citizenship should have their names included in the immigration quotas of that foreign country. The quotas should be set up as a lottery, if more people want to come to America than the quota allows. That gives the people who apply an equal chance each year. People trying to reunite with their families shouldn't have to go through a quota system.

People on the road to citizenship should be warned about criminal activity and how it can disqualify them from being an American citizen.

I like all of the things you mentioned. It's a much more realistic way of handling this issue than "enforcing the law and deporting everyone."

I think the border also has to be secured in order for your ideas to be sustainable. Whether we send troops down there or finish the wall or both.

I think an ID system could prevent illegal immigrants from getting jobs and along with severe penalties for hiring illegal immigrants, they wouldn't have a reason to come to America. I've written a bunch of proposals on how to use data bases to locate identity fraud. The photo ID I propose has the photo in a data base that can be checked against the individual having the ID. That data base prevents a fake ID.

I don't think you can stop people with a fence and only taking away their reasons for coming will stop them.

A properly maintained and manned fence certainly can keep people in, as exemplified by the fence that was known as Iron Curtain, and which was the subject of President Reagan's plea to Gorbachev.

If it could keep people in, a similar fence could keep people out.

 

[TheOldSchool]

I think an ID system could prevent illegal immigrants from getting jobs and along with severe penalties for hiring illegal immigrants, they wouldn't have a reason to come to America. I've written a bunch of proposals on how to use data bases to locate identity fraud. The photo ID I propose has the photo in a data base that can be checked against the individual having the ID. That data base prevents a fake ID.

I don't think you can stop people with a fence and only taking away their reasons for coming will stop them.

What about expanding e-verify?

 

[deaddogseye]

According to DDE the GOP should group women, hispanics, blacks, Muslims, and young people together and give up on them all.

Do you really want to give that much ammo to the people who call the GOP the party of old rich white men?

Id appreciate you sharing your basis for saying that according to me the GOP should give up on women hispanics blacks muslims and young people. I didnt say any thing like that. Nothing.

 

[RoadVirus]

Doesn't work that way.

Criminals are criminals... It is supposed to work that way. Where in our judicial system does the Government have the Right to selectively enforce our Laws?

Fine keep losing elections then.

In other words, you have no problem with people violating the law and not be prosecuted just because they are "a special group"? That's called Anarchy.

 

[RoadVirus]

The only crime most illegal aliens are committing is one of leaving their families and their native land to earn money for their survival.

If they used all that energy to change their own trash heap of a country, they wouldn't have to come here.

 

[RoadVirus]

One of the advantages of increasing immigration is to weaken nativism in the country.

You mean "Weaken those concerned for their country".

 

[Dubya]

I think an ID system could prevent illegal immigrants from getting jobs and along with severe penalties for hiring illegal immigrants, they wouldn't have a reason to come to America. I've written a bunch of proposals on how to use data bases to locate identity fraud. The photo ID I propose has the photo in a data base that can be checked against the individual having the ID. That data base prevents a fake ID.

I don't think you can stop people with a fence and only taking away their reasons for coming will stop them.

What about expanding e-verify?

They could expand it to include photos and fingerprints. If someone is being put on the road to American citizenship, why not take advantage of that opportunity to gather information about the identity of that person. Having their photos and fingerprints on file prevents someone using that identity and causing them trouble. Let's say a person is using their identity and is arrested, having a fake ID. The real person may get a notice about committing a crime and could be deported for being undesirable. When they checked the fingerprints on file with the fingerprints of the arrested person, they wouldn't match and it would known that identity theft took place.

In my state, documentation was required to get a driver's license or state ID renewed. Since I know that information is in a data base, I figured such a system could include everyone of working age. The same system could also be used to determine eligiblity to vote. I believe it involved a Homeland Security (DHS) requirement that was national. If I present proof of my identity such as a birth certificate and original social security card, that information should be kept in a data base. If I regularly have my photo put in that data base over a period of time or have fingerprints there, my identity should be easy to verify.

Illegal immigrant given the road to citizenship are eligible to work in America, so they should get social security numbers and IDs to identify their status. I just want a system to prevent someone using a false ID and working, because I know working incourages illegal immigration. I suggested things like finding social security numbers used in more than one area of the country and a better system to notify about the death of a person. It's possible that some people may be using children's social security numbers for a false ID and social security isn't checking the age of the person. I think programs could be written to check these things and lists could be checked to catch people doing identity theft.

If an illegal immigrant can't get a job and the ways to scam to get a job are removed, they aren't going to want to be here, unless they totally rely on criminal activity for a living.

As far as I'm concerned, they can bring back the overseas jobs and add 50 million more people to the country. I don't mind sharing this country with other human beings, but I realize there has to be some limit.

 

[Dubya]

One of the advantages of increasing immigration is to weaken nativism in the country.

You mean "Weaken those concerned for their country".

We think of it as diluting the asshole quality of our nation, so the weaken part is right

 

[RoadVirus]

One of the advantages of increasing immigration is to weaken nativism in the country.

You mean "Weaken those concerned for their country".

We think of it as diluting the asshole quality of our nation, so the weaken part is right

So people who are concerned are now not only "racist", but they are also "assholes"?

Gotcha!

 

[JakeStarkey]

You mean "Weaken those concerned for their country".

We think of it as diluting the asshole quality of our nation, so the weaken part is right

So people who are concerned are now not only "racist", but they are also "assholes"?

Gotcha!

You nativist reactionaries are not concerned for the country, only for your "we want to go back to the 1950s" sickness that infect so many of the far right.

We the People cannot let that happen.

 

[CivFan]

I'm Hispanic. You're not losing the war because of illegal immigration. You're losing the war because you've made "Mexicans" into boogie monsters. The tea party gets the most media time of any supporters of the GOP, and what they say makes Hispanics feel completely insulted. Thus most Hispanics connect the GOP with the tea party. At least that's my experience.

What does the Tea Party say about Hispanics that is insulting?

I think some it is linked to Sharron Angel's Senate campaign.

 

[CivFan]

The only crime most illegal aliens are committing is one of leaving their families and their native land to earn money for their survival.

If they used all that energy to change their own trash heap of a country, they wouldn't have to come here.

It's EXACTLY things like that driving Latinos away from the GOP. Get a vacation flight to Havana and distribute "Cambio" (change) flyers and tell me how it works out for ya?

 

[sarahgop]

In 2006 and 2007, Republicans promoting amnesty favored the cliche, “Immigrants do the jobs American’s won’t do.” It was a bad argument then, and with unemployment still hovering around or over 9%, for the last five years, no one even bothers with that anymore. Instead, Republicans are selling amnesty based solely on political expediency. The new cliche is that Republicans will never win the Hispanic vote unless they support amnesty. John McCain, who led the last great push for amnesty says. "The Republican Party is losing the support of our Hispanic citizens. And we realize this is an issue in which we are in agreement with our Hispanic citizens."

. . . . . . . . . . . .


In the latest issue of the academic journal Social Science Quarterly, political scientist George Hawley compared Republicans voting records on immigration (calculated by the limited immigration group Numbers USA) and their performance among Hispanics. He found absolutely no relation between support for liberal immigration policy and support among Hispanics.

. . . . . . . . . . . .


Amnesty Will Not Draw Hispanics to the GOP - Tom Tancredo - Page 1

the illegals vote democrat to get free goodies. that wont change.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Show me serious such violations, sarahgop.