Zone1 Annihilating the Church of J.C. of LDS

[surada]

Joseph Smith added/changed over 2400 verses in the Bible.

Nope, nothing to see here folks, just move along.

The Joseph Smith Papers Project Releases “Legal Records: Case Introductions”

The Joseph Smith Papers Project has unveiled its latest historical study aid: “Legal Records: Case Introductions.”

newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.org

 

[surada]

yes I believe the bible cause I am a real Christian.

The Jews learned the flood story in Babylon.

 

[John Edgar Slow Horses]

I am not LDS, never have been, but know more than the majority about it. Why? I have been around all of my life, had a few friends and many acquaintances who have been lifelong members and still attend, though not so many know as spillage has increased.

The OP has a twisted view of the faith.

The fact remains you can understand the history of western America without having a knowledge of Mormonism in the west.

 

[Dadoalex]

https://cesletter.org/CES-Letter.pdf

I have a perverse hobby, and I've indulged in it for many years. I enjoy reading about Joseph Smith, LDS history, and the LDS church (whatever it chooses to be called this week). Basically, I find it entertaining that so many apparently intelligent people can be so totally bamboozled by a religion that is manifestly phony...from the very beginning. The problem for them is that MOST religions were started a long time ago, before reliable recording was possible, and when eye witnesses could not be challenged in Real Time. They might all be total bunkum, but since they have been around so long, maybe not. Who knows?

But that's not the case with LDS. It happened recently enough that there ARE records, witnesses, and claims that can be challenged with facts and science, and the Mormon church comes up short in virtually every area.

But what I didn't know - I learned it watching a video earlier today - is that there is actually an ex-Mormon who went all out, questioning church authorities on every imaginable claim, belief, and assertion of the church, and providing detailed explanation of why they are bunkum.

His original list of questions to the LDS authorities, after being ignored, was expanded into a book-length essay, obliterating virtually everything that the church teaches and stands for. This thesis (or whatever you would call it) has been termed, "The CES Letter," and is linked above.

LDS members are cautioned NOT TO READ IT. It will kill their "testimony" like Raid kills bugs. If you spend a little while going over it, you will understand why they don't want members reading it.

I have had a few conversations with LDS missionaries, but the next ones...I don't know.

The Jews said you die and that's it.
Then they said you die and when God comes you go to heaven
Then the Christians said you go to heaven right after you die
Then the Muslims said you go to heaven and there's 40 virgins waiting for you
Then the Mormons said you die, go to heaven and become just like God.

surely we can see the pattern here?

 

[John Edgar Slow Horses]

Dadoalex, that is your opinion.

 

[rampart]

The Jews said you die and that's it.
Then they said you die and when God comes you go to heaven
Then the Christians said you go to heaven right after you die
Then the Muslims said you go to heaven and there's 40 virgins waiting for you
Then the Mormons said you die, go to heaven and become just like God.

surely we can see the pattern here?

the prosperity peddlers say that if you give them enough seed money god will repay you 7 fold.

there is definitely a pattern.

 

[John Edgar Slow Horses]

Oh, boo hoo, to angry theists and atheists.

An agnostic can be admirable.

 

[onefour1]

Annihilating the Church of J.C. of LDS​

We're still here! No annihilation as far as I can see. The CES letter is nothing but regurgitated garbage and has been responded to over and over again. Here are a few links that refute the CES letter from the following site: Overview of the CES Letter - FAIR

Overview	Overview of the CES Letter Approaching history Responding to criticisms about Church history
Brief responses and additional resources, CES Letter sections	Introduction Book of Mormon Book of Mormon Translation First Vision Book of Abraham Polygamy and Polyandry Prophets Kinderhook Plates & Translator Claims Testimony and Spiritual Witness Priesthood Restoration Witnesses Temples & Freemasonry Science Other Conclusion
Detailed responses, CES Letter sections	Introduction Book of Mormon Book of Mormon Translation First Vision Book of Abraham Polygamy and Polyandry Prophets Kinderhook Plates & Translator Claims Testimony and Spiritual Witness Priesthood Restoration Witnesses Temples & Freemasonry Science Other Conclusion

 

[onefour1]

 

[HikerGuy83]

LDS members are cautioned NOT TO READ IT. It will kill their "testimony" like Raid kills bugs. If you spend a little while going over it, you will understand why they don't want members reading it.

Before I was baptized, I was exposed to about 80% of what is in there (Runnel's Book).

The trouble is that Moroni does not say, "and after you shall read these things.....go dig up half of South America". Does he ?

Peter was told he was given a testimony of Christ by his Father.

And that is how the LDS (and everyone else) is supposed to gain a witness of the Savior.

Lots of people read it and say "meh".

John Dehlin now sounds like a broken record.

 

[ozro]

Very amusing op.
I am not LDS, but I have lived among them for several years.
One thing I can say, and know to be true;
Some guy on an internet message board is not going to 'annihilate' the Mormon church.

 

[HikerGuy83]

There are such definite advantages that LDS members have with other LDS members that it is to their benefit to pretend to embrace LDS theology. To be accepted, to be loved, to have such advantages is powerful incentive to push aside whatever cognitive uncomfortableness exists and go with the flow so to speak. Don't you think it is pretty much a similar phenomenon when those in a political party or other religions or engaged in such beliefs as climate change or gender identification etc. sociopolitics do pretty much the same?

But to the pretend advocates and also the true believers there is little to be gained by presenting them with actual evidence. They will do everything they can think of to discredit it and dismiss it as either untrue or irrelevant. They have chosen their dogma and they do not give it up easily.

It takes a very strong person to insist on logic, reason, actual facts when everybody else wants so badly for something to be true.

Or you can recognize that the development of faith is a journey.

Look at Peter......

He progressed and he learned as he went.

He was eventually forged into the great man that led the Church following the departure of Christ.

Paul was in the same boat.

I will agree that there is a strong cultural interlock that often goads people into failing to develope their independent faith. But something always seems to break that along the way.

And they get to chose.

Logic, base on scant information from a long time ago. Information from people who wrote 50 years after the fact like they were there.

Go for it.

 

[HikerGuy83]

Well, they practically have an entire state on lock.

And they do pretty well for themselves there.

Yes, well that's what you get when the U.S. Government violates just about every civil right in the book and they are forced to head for territory that nobody wants.

Even after that, the government could not keep their hands off of them.

 

[HikerGuy83]

Do you take Noah's story literally?

I do.

 

[HikerGuy83]

Joseph Smith added/changed over 2400 verses in the Bible.

Nope, nothing to see here folks, just move along.

What bible ?

The one that was created 350 years after Christ died ?

That bible.

The same one put together under the direction of pagan leader turned Christian ?

 

[HikerGuy83]

We're still here! No annihilation as far as I can see. The CES letter is nothing but regurgitated garbage and has been responded to over and over again. Here are a few links that refute the CES letter from the following site:

John Dehlin, bless his heart, loves to set the standard. If this (Joseph Smith married a 14-year-old girl) then he can't be a prophet.

Who is John Dehlin ? Someone who finally left (or was excused from) the church at 55 years old.

He now knows it isn't true.

But he served in a bisopric. Wonder how many testimonies he bore in his lifetime saying "I know...."

How does he explain those ?

 

[John Edgar Slow Horses]

It is a matter of simple logic and history, both sides lose.

It is always about faith.

 

[HikerGuy83]

Annihilating the Church of J.C. of LDS​

We're still here! No annihilation as far as I can see. The CES letter is nothing but regurgitated garbage and has been responded to over and over again. Here are a few links that refute the CES letter from the following site: Overview of the CES Letter - FAIR

Overview	Overview of the CES Letter Approaching history Responding to criticisms about Church history
Brief responses and additional resources, CES Letter sections	Introduction Book of Mormon Book of Mormon Translation First Vision Book of Abraham Polygamy and Polyandry Prophets Kinderhook Plates & Translator Claims Testimony and Spiritual Witness Priesthood Restoration Witnesses Temples & Freemasonry Science Other Conclusion
Detailed responses, CES Letter sections	Introduction Book of Mormon Book of Mormon Translation First Vision Book of Abraham Polygamy and Polyandry Prophets Kinderhook Plates & Translator Claims Testimony and Spiritual Witness Priesthood Restoration Witnesses Temples & Freemasonry Science Other Conclusion

Never been a big fan of Fair.

Jeremy Runnels is making bank off his fraud.

It all comes down to faith and the Holy Ghost.

 

[frigidweirdo]

yes I believe the bible cause I am a real Christian.

Do you believe that God is a genocidal manic? Because that's what the Bible says he is.

 

[HikerGuy83]

Do you believe that God is a genocidal manic? Because that's what the Bible says he is.

And how so ?