Another Anti Gun Study Uses Gangs To Boost Numbers...

[2aguy]

Hey remember the Tylenol scare? We pulled MILLIONS of bottles off the shelf because about three bottles had cyanide in them. And then they completely changed the way it was packaged.

And defective guns are recalled all the time...that is why you never buy a new model of gun for 6 months to a year to makes sure all the bugs are worked out...the industry is as responsible as any other industry...

For example...the springfield xds was discovered to have a potential to fire when the slide moved forward, they weren't even sure it was an actual problem or user error...but...Springfield had an immediate recall and fixed the problem...

 

[JoeB131]

guy, listening to you masturbate over gun performance is kind of boring.

This is a product that is responsible for 32,000 deaths and 78,000 injuries a year. Any other product would be more seriously regulated if abused to this level.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Liberals don't want anyone to defend themselves particularly if the assailant isn't white. Then the victim has a duty to die for the cause of diversity.

Actually, a gun in the home is 43 times more likely to kill a household member than a bad guy, so, no, we really don't think this is a good plan.

In my house 43 times 0 is still 0 chance that i will be killed by my own weapon

That's probably what the owners of the 32,000 guns thought the day before tragedy hit.

Here we go again

You're still adding suicides and we all know that suicides do not count as suicide is neither illegal nor accidental

 

[JoeB131]

Liberals don't want anyone to defend themselves particularly if the assailant isn't white. Then the victim has a duty to die for the cause of diversity.

Actually, a gun in the home is 43 times more likely to kill a household member than a bad guy, so, no, we really don't think this is a good plan.

In my house 43 times 0 is still 0 chance that i will be killed by my own weapon

That's probably what the owners of the 32,000 guns thought the day before tragedy hit.

Here we go again

You're still adding suicides and we all know that suicides do not count as suicide is neither illegal nor accidental

Um, yeah, they still count as "Dead", though.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Liberals don't want anyone to defend themselves particularly if the assailant isn't white. Then the victim has a duty to die for the cause of diversity.

This fails as a straw man fallacy given the fact most 'liberals' own guns and have no problem with citizens defending themselves accordingly.

They also don't buy into this sort of hateful racist tripe.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Liberals don't want anyone to defend themselves particularly if the assailant isn't white. Then the victim has a duty to die for the cause of diversity.

Actually, a gun in the home is 43 times more likely to kill a household member than a bad guy, so, no, we really don't think this is a good plan.

In my house 43 times 0 is still 0 chance that i will be killed by my own weapon

That's probably what the owners of the 32,000 guns thought the day before tragedy hit.

Here we go again

You're still adding suicides and we all know that suicides do not count as suicide is neither illegal nor accidental

And you're still trying to defend gun rights by arguing with facts, looking ridiculous in the process.

The data Joe cites are accurate.

They're also legally and Constitutionally irrelevant, and have no bearing whatsoever on the right of Americans to possess a firearm for lawful self-defense.

The sooner you realize this the less ridiculous you'll look.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Liberals don't want anyone to defend themselves particularly if the assailant isn't white. Then the victim has a duty to die for the cause of diversity.

Actually, a gun in the home is 43 times more likely to kill a household member than a bad guy, so, no, we really don't think this is a good plan.

In my house 43 times 0 is still 0 chance that i will be killed by my own weapon

That's probably what the owners of the 32,000 guns thought the day before tragedy hit.

Here we go again

You're still adding suicides and we all know that suicides do not count as suicide is neither illegal nor accidental

Um, yeah, they still count as "Dead", though.

So?

It is not a crime to die by your own hand. That you attempt to count intentional acts of suicide in your stats is more proof of your disingenuous nature.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Liberals don't want anyone to defend themselves particularly if the assailant isn't white. Then the victim has a duty to die for the cause of diversity.

Actually, a gun in the home is 43 times more likely to kill a household member than a bad guy, so, no, we really don't think this is a good plan.

In my house 43 times 0 is still 0 chance that i will be killed by my own weapon

That's probably what the owners of the 32,000 guns thought the day before tragedy hit.

Here we go again

You're still adding suicides and we all know that suicides do not count as suicide is neither illegal nor accidental

And you're still trying to defend gun rights by arguing with facts, looking ridiculous in the process.

The data Joe cites are accurate.

They're also legally and Constitutionally irrelevant, and have no bearing whatsoever on the right of Americans to possess a firearm for lawful self-defense.

The sooner you realize this the less ridiculous you'll look.

Suicide is not illegal therefore any death by suicide has no place in the discussion regarding the danger of guns.

Guns are dangerous everyone knows that but so are chainsaws big deal. if I know the risks of owning a gun it's none of your business is it?

If i get injured with my own gun which by the way has not ever happened and I have been handling guns for more than 35 years it's still none of your concern.

So the whole 43 times more likely bullshit is meaningless since 43 times 0 is still 0.

So you go live your own life and let others live theirs

 

[2aguy]

This is a product that is responsible for 32,000 deaths and 78,000 injuries a year.

This product...guns...are responsible for saving lives and stopping violent rapists, violent robbers, violent murderers, and violent and brutal beatings 2.5 million times a year....vs. guns murdering people 10-12,000 times a year and gun accidents killing 6-700 people a year...

Try taking off your shoes to do the counting but 2.5 million is greater than 10-12,000...by a large margin...and 6-700 by an even larger margin...

Guns save more lives than they take...19 multiple, separate studies over a period of 40 years proves this...

Gun save lives...period...

 

[zeke]

Bill you obsessed individual you. How many of your guns did you use to stop crime last night? NONE? No way.
Out of the millions of crimes you claim are stopped, you didn't get to stop ONE of them. Amazing isn't it.

How about gun confiscation? How many of YOUR guns or your friends guns were confiscated last night? Or even this weekend? NONE you say again.

When are you yourself gonna post up either that; you stopped a crime. or your guns were taken away for no cause?

I mean that is what you claim is happening, over and over and over. To the point of obsession. So PROVE IT.

 

[Geaux4it]

Bill you obsessed individual you. How many of your guns did you use to stop crime last night? NONE? No way.
Out of the millions of crimes you claim are stopped, you didn't get to stop ONE of them. Amazing isn't it.

How about gun confiscation? How many of YOUR guns or your friends guns were confiscated last night? Or even this weekend? NONE you say again.

When are you yourself gonna post up either that; you stopped a crime. or your guns were taken away for no cause?

I mean that is what you claim is happening, over and over and over. To the point of obsession. So PROVE IT.

Just like seat-belts and insurance. You hope a gun is never needed. But when it is, what an effective tool

-Geaux

 

[zeke]

2.5 million crimes stopped eh? Fuck me, you will believe ANYTHING won't cha?

2.5 million divided by 365 days = 6843 crimes stopped YESTERDAY with a gun. But you can't PROVE it happened. But you do believe it. It's like a faith thing with you isn't it.

Thereby proving that you'll believe anything.

 

[zeke]

How about you go for it. Can you prove 5,843 crimes were stopped YESTERDAY? Fuck no.

Are you so stupid you think seat belts are the same as guns eh? Weird dude.

 

[2aguy]

2.5 million crimes stopped eh? Fuck me, you will believe ANYTHING won't cha?

I don't believe anything...since I rarely believe what people like you post...however, the stat of 2.5 million times a year that guns are used to save lives and stop violent crime is one of at least 19 separate studies...it isn't the highest number cited in these studies and it isn't the lowest...but it seems to be from the most accurate study...again...here are all the numbers from multiple studies, done by different researchers...some private, some government, some as far back as 1976 and the most recent being obama commissioning the CDC in 2013...here they are again...for those who didn't get it the first dozen times I have posted them....

Please zeke...look at the studies and the numbers...I am not saying anything...the actual researchers are saying it...

Okay...again...here are all the studies that actually give numbers for guns used to save lives and stop crimes taken from the table I provided from guncite.com...

GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

Field...1976....3,052,717

Bordua...1977...1,414,544

DMIa 1978...2,141,512

DMIb...1978...1,098,409

Hart...1981...1.797,461

Ohio...1982...771,043

Mauser...1990...1,487,342

Gallup...1991...777,153

Gallup...1993...1,621,377

L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,682

Tarrance... 1994... 764,036

DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million
(Subsequent to Kleck's study, the Department of Justice sponsored a survey in 1994 titled, Guns in America: National Survey on Private Ownership and Use of Firearms (text,PDF). Using a smaller sample size than Kleck's, this survey estimated 1.5 million DGU's annually.)

Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..
.(Lawrence Southwick, Jr.,Guns and Justifiable Homicide: Deterrence and Defense-concludes there are at least 400,000 "fewer violent crimes due to civilian self-defense use of guns" and at least "800,000 violent crimes are deterred each year because of gun ownership and use by civilians.")

Obama's CDC...

from slate.com an article on CDC obama's era...500-3 million defensive gun uses

Handguns suicides mass shootings deaths and self-defense Findings from a research report on gun violence.

7. Guns are used for self-defense often and effectively. “Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million per year … in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008,” says the report. The three million figure is probably high, “based on an extrapolation from a small number of responses taken from more than 19 national surveys.”

"Based on survey data from a 2000 study published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology,[17] U.S. civilians use guns to defend themselves and others from crime at least 989,883 times per year."
As shown in the previous footnote, this study did not use a nationally representative population. To correct for this, Just Facts used the following equation:

As Kleck points out in his paper...

All of the eleven surveys yielded results that implied over 700,000 uses per year. None of the surveys implied estimates even remotely like the 65,000 to 82,000 figures derived from the NCVS. To date, there has been no confirmation of even the most approximate sort of the NCVS estimates. Indeed, no survey has ever yielded an estimate which is of the same magnitude as those derived from the NCVS.​

Just for you zeke I highlighted numbers that put it over 2 million times a year...notice...all the different studies by all the different researchers...if you have a beef...take it up with them...

​

 

[Wildman]

Liberals don't want anyone to defend themselves particularly if the assailant isn't white. Then the victim has a duty to die for the cause of diversity.

Actually, a gun in the home is 43 times more likely to kill a household member than a bad guy, so, no, we really don't think this is a good plan.

....... ....... ....... .......

when a LIE is repeated often enough the weakest of minds, e.g., liberdummies, will soon believe it.

 

[zeke]

Billo, you luvs you some guns. You have lots of friends that luv them some guns.
6800 crime stops a day. Almost 20 thousand in three days.

Bill don't you think you or I should know of SOMEONE that stopped a crime in the past few days? Or even some gun nutter on here should know someone.

I read that Kleck study you posted. What was it, a little over 4 thousand respondents? Of which it came down to about 200 that had stopped a crime with their gun. And that number was extrapolated into 2.5 million.

Even the numbers you post from 500,000 up to 3 million. That is such a huge range as to be worthless information because, and pay attention to this idea, NONE OF THOSE NUMBERS CAN BE VERIFIED.

Why don't you have a problem with un verified information? Because you WANT to believe what was written.

And as you like to say; we have a gang violence problem. So a gang member with a gun defends himself from another gang member and you do what? Celebrate? See how those guns both aided a crime and stopped a crime. That's just weird. But it does help the studies you find so trustworthy.

 

[JoeB131]

Actually, a gun in the home is 43 times more likely to kill a household member than a bad guy, so, no, we really don't think this is a good plan.

In my house 43 times 0 is still 0 chance that i will be killed by my own weapon

That's probably what the owners of the 32,000 guns thought the day before tragedy hit.

Here we go again

You're still adding suicides and we all know that suicides do not count as suicide is neither illegal nor accidental

Um, yeah, they still count as "Dead", though.

So?

It is not a crime to die by your own hand. That you attempt to count intentional acts of suicide in your stats is more proof of your disingenuous nature.

No, it's pointing out that we have too many gun deaths in this country because people who shouldn't have guns can get them.

 

[2aguy]

I read that Kleck study you posted. What was it, a little over 4 thousand respondents? Of which it came down to about 200 that had stopped a crime with their gun. And that number was extrapolated into 2.5 million.

Do you realize that Kleck had one of the largest sample sizes of all the previous gun studies...and that his methods were more accurate than the other previous studies...but don't let actual research stop you...

Even the numbers you post from 500,000 up to 3 million. That is such a huge range as to be worthless information because, and pay attention to this idea, NONE OF THOSE NUMBERS CAN BE VERIFIED.

the fact that 19 separate studies, done by completely different researchers, over a 40 year period, in both private and government research studies...have shown numbers consistently over 760,000 times a year, at a minimum, that guns are used to save lives and stop crimes speak for the accuracy of the numbers...at a minimum...760,000 times a year guns save lives and stop violent rapes, robberies, beatings and murders...

So if we take the minimum number of these studies (excluding obamas CDC study that put the number at 500,000 since it comes from a really, really anti gun source)...

10-12,000 gun murders a year....vs....760,000 times that a life is saved or a violent crime is stopped by a gun....

hmmmm...which number is greater and by how much? (you can take your shoes off if you have to...)

6-700 accidental gun deaths a year....vs....760,000 times that a life is saved or a violent crime is stopped by a gun...

Hmmmm...again, which number is greater? (yeah, you can take your shoes off for this one as well...)

Guns save more lives than they take...when you look at the actual numbers...

 

[Skull Pilot]

In my house 43 times 0 is still 0 chance that i will be killed by my own weapon

That's probably what the owners of the 32,000 guns thought the day before tragedy hit.

Here we go again

You're still adding suicides and we all know that suicides do not count as suicide is neither illegal nor accidental

Um, yeah, they still count as "Dead", though.

So?

It is not a crime to die by your own hand. That you attempt to count intentional acts of suicide in your stats is more proof of your disingenuous nature.

No, it's pointing out that we have too many gun deaths in this country because people who shouldn't have guns can get them.

And yet you still count suicides.

People who want to die don't matter to crime stats.
So take out the suicides and also take out the gang bangers killing other gang bangers and adjust your numbers to the average person and see what you get.

Because really when you get outside of the ultra-violent gang infested inner cities we really don't have a gun problem.

 

[JoeB131]

Hey, maybe if we take out "Dead People', those gun death numbers will really go down.

Then we'd just have the 78000 INJURIES due to guns.

Idiot.