Another Anti Gun Study Uses Gangs To Boost Numbers...

[Skull Pilot]

That is where these discussions begin and end, and until the pro-gun lobby start to accept that only the prevalence of guns in society can entirely explain this fact, the discussions really are of very little merit.

Most gun deaths are suicides....so explain to me if guns are the problem...why does Japan have twice the suicide rate than the United States when they have absolute gun control?

Is it painful to be so stupid?

In case you missed it, the Japanese are not Christians. Christians have a problem with killing yourself. Think it is against the laws of God.

Some Japanese think and have thought this way a long time, that suicide is an honorable way to end your life.

Think that has ANY bearing on suicide rates? Knowing you, probably not.

Life ain't all about guns in other countries. Like it is with you.

Then why do anti gun people always cite suicide as a reason to ban guns?

Suicide is not illegal yet is always counted in the gun death stats by you people.

 

[2aguy]

When a gun you sold is used in a crime, you do the bad guy's time.

Good idea...when clothing sold in a store is used in a crime...arrest them too...

When a car is used in a crime...arrest the car dealer...

When a criminal is arrested for committing a crime, go to his apartment building and arrest the owner...

Wow...I never realized how many extra criminals there were in society...

 

[Skull Pilot]

When a gun you sold is used in a crime, you do the bad guy's time.

Good idea...when clothing sold in a store is used in a crime...arrest them too...

When a car is used in a crime...arrest the car dealer...

When a criminal is arrested for committing a crime, go to his apartment building and arrest the owner...

Wow...I never realized how many extra criminals there were in society...

According to the control freak types here everyone is just a millisecond away from being the next mass murderer.

 

[Katzndogz]

Liberals don't want anyone to defend themselves particularly if the assailant isn't white. Then the victim has a duty to die for the cause of diversity.

 

[JoeB131]

Liberals don't want anyone to defend themselves particularly if the assailant isn't white. Then the victim has a duty to die for the cause of diversity.

Actually, a gun in the home is 43 times more likely to kill a household member than a bad guy, so, no, we really don't think this is a good plan.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Liberals don't want anyone to defend themselves particularly if the assailant isn't white. Then the victim has a duty to die for the cause of diversity.

Actually, a gun in the home is 43 times more likely to kill a household member than a bad guy, so, no, we really don't think this is a good plan.

In my house 43 times 0 is still 0 chance that i will be killed by my own weapon

 

[JoeB131]

Liberals don't want anyone to defend themselves particularly if the assailant isn't white. Then the victim has a duty to die for the cause of diversity.

Actually, a gun in the home is 43 times more likely to kill a household member than a bad guy, so, no, we really don't think this is a good plan.

In my house 43 times 0 is still 0 chance that i will be killed by my own weapon

That's probably what the owners of the 32,000 guns thought the day before tragedy hit.

 

[Spoonman]

yes, the next...your gun will kill a family member study, just came out...and, surprise...they include violent criminals who know one another to say your gun will be used to murder your family...nice...

States with most gun owners have more lsquo non-stranger rsquo homicides - Health wellness - The Boston Globe

What did increase with gun ownership? The incidence in murders committed by loved ones, friends, and acquaintances, such as rival gang members.

“Not only do guns not protect people from having strangers kill them but having those guns around puts them at greater risk for being killed in a situation with someone that they do know,” said study co-author Dr. Michael Siegel, professor of community health sciences at the BU School of Public Health.

They printed this story with a straight face no doubt...

every gun grabbing article is proven false. there hasn't been one yet that has stood up to a fact check

 

[Spoonman]

OK NRAbots

How do you propose to keep guns out of the hands of gang members?

securing the borders and deporting illegals would be a nice start. cut out entitlements and a free ride to the bottom dwelling slugs would be another good start

 

[mudwhistle]

 

[2aguy]

Actually, a gun in the home is 43 times more likely to kill a household member than a bad guy, so, no, we really don't think this is a good plan.

You do know that the guy who did this study actually changed the number...right...? and even after he corrected the number it was still wrong...right?

 

[2aguy]

On the myth of 43%...

Serious Flaws in Kellerman

Subgroups and confounding factors
The methods used in Kellerman, et al do not take into account subgrouping or stratification in our society, and this can be shown to be able to cause a spurious association comparable to the one found.

 

[JoeB131]

Actually, a gun in the home is 43 times more likely to kill a household member than a bad guy, so, no, we really don't think this is a good plan.

You do know that the guy who did this study actually changed the number...right...? and even after he corrected the number it was still wrong...right?

No, actually, he never did. All the gun nut stomping of feet about Kellerman has never changed his numbers.

 

[JoeB131]

On the myth of 43%...

Serious Flaws in Kellerman

Subgroups and confounding factors
The methods used in Kellerman, et al do not take into account subgrouping or stratification in our society, and this can be shown to be able to cause a spurious association comparable to the one found.

Yes, i know you guys like to pretend that Kellerman wasn't right on the nose.

But he was.

 

[2aguy]

Arthur Kellermann - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Several academic papers have been published severely questioning Kellerman's methodology, selective capture of data, and refusal to provide raw data from his gun-risk studies so as to substantiate his methods and result validity. While Kellerman has backed away from his previous statement that people are “43 times more likely” to be murdered in their own home if they own and keep a gun in their home, he still proposes that the risk is 2.7 times higher. The critiques included Henry E. Schaffer,[8] J. Neil Schuman, and criminologists Gary Kleck,[9] Don Kates, and others.[10]

Ummmm...I think you are wrong again...

 

[2aguy]

Debunking the 3 times more likely to be the victim myth -- reprise - Democratic Underground

and this...

Kellermann-Gun Ownership as a Risk Factor for Homicide in the Home

Whose gun?
In a letter to the editor in the New England Journal of Medicine, "The students of Dr. Mark Ferris's Mathematical Statistics 460" class ask, "In how many of the homicides was the victim killed with a gun that was kept in the house rather than a gun that was brought to the house by the perpetrator?" The question is a relevant one since, as the letter also notes, the study's authors had stated in part based on their findings that "people should be strongly discouraged from keeping guns in their homes [p. 1090]." In other words, advising people against keeping a gun in the home doesn't make sense unless it causes an increase in homicide risk.

Kellermann's first response to the students was incorrect: "Ninety-three percent of the homicides involving firearms occurred in homes where a gun was kept, according to the proxy respondents." In afollow-up letter (four years later) Kellermann acknowledges his error, but still fails to directly answer the question.

Kellermann's own data suggests that for all gun homicides of matched cases no more than 34% were murdered by a gun from the victim's home. (GunCite's analysis of Kellermann's data.) (The data, such as it is, is available at http://www.icpsr.umich.edu/cgi/archive.prl?study=6898). 34% is probably on the charitable side since it assumes all family member or intimate homicides were commited by offenders living with the victim which is highly unlikely given that not all intimates (as defined in the Kellermann dataset: spouse, parents, in-laws, siblings, other relatives, and lovers) were likely to have lived with an adult victim.

A subsequent study, again by Kellermann, of fatal and non-fatal gunshot woundings, showed that only 14.2% of the shootings involving a gun whose origins were known, involved a gun kept in the home where the shooting occurred. (Kellermann, et. al. 1998. "Injuries and deaths due to firearms in the home."Journal of Trauma 45:263-267) ("The authors reported that among those 438 assaultive gunshot woundings, 49 involved a gun 'kept in the home where the shooting occurred,' 295 involved a gun brought to the scene from elsewhere, and another 94 involved a gun whose origins were not noted by the police [p. 252].") (Kleck, Gary. "Can Owning a Gun Really Triple the Owner's Chances of Being Murdered?"Homicide Studies 5 [2001].)

Yeah....the guy can't get it right...

 

[2aguy]

And here is Dr. Gary Kleck dismantling kellerman's study...

Can Owning a Gun Really Triple the Owner s Chances of being Murdered

The authors' underlying assumption was that a significant elevation in homicide risk derived from the risk of being murdered with a gun kept in the victim's home. This article shows that homicides are rarely committed with guns belonging to members of the victim's home and that such killings could be responsible for no more than a 2.4% increase in the relative risk of being murdered. Guns in one's own home have little to do with homicide risk. Scholars need to attend more closely to the mechanisms by which an alleged causal effect is supposed to operate and to consider their plausibility before concluding that an association reflects a causal effect.

 

[JoeB131]

Arthur Kellermann - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Several academic papers have been published severely questioning Kellerman's methodology, selective capture of data, and refusal to provide raw data from his gun-risk studies so as to substantiate his methods and result validity. While Kellerman has backed away from his previous statement that people are “43 times more likely” to be murdered in their own home if they own and keep a gun in their home, he still proposes that the risk is 2.7 times higher. The critiques included Henry E. Schaffer,[8] J. Neil Schuman, and criminologists Gary Kleck,[9] Don Kates, and others.[10]

Ummmm...I think you are wrong again...

He never said "Murdered". IN fact, he was VERY clear in the original study that 2.7 times were murders, and the rest were suicides and accidents.

and Gary Kleck is still a quack.

 

[2aguy]

rest were suicides and accidents.

Suicides don't count...since people intent on killing themselves will do it regardless of having a gun...

accidents? Really? considering that gun accidents account for between 600-700 deaths a year...out of 310 million guns owned...not exactly the numbers needed to ban 310 million guns...

 

[JoeB131]

rest were suicides and accidents.

Suicides don't count...since people intent on killing themselves will do it regardless of having a gun...

accidents? Really? considering that gun accidents account for between 600-700 deaths a year...out of 310 million guns owned...not exactly the numbers needed to ban 310 million guns...

We recall millions of products because one or two were defective or poisoned.

Hey remember the Tylenol scare? We pulled MILLIONS of bottles off the shelf because about three bottles had cyanide in them. And then they completely changed the way it was packaged.