Another Liberal myth: Separation of church and state is not in the constitution

I think you need to read some history Gadawg.

As abolitionism gained popularity in the northern states, it strained relations between northern and southern churches. Northern preachers increasingly preached against slavery in the 1830s. In the 1840's,slavery began to divide denominations. This, in turn, weakened social ties between the North and South, allowing the nation to become even more divided in the 1850s.

The issue of slavery in the United States came to a conclusion with the American Civil War. Although the war began as a political struggle over the preservation of the nation, it took on religious overtones as southern preachers called for a defense of their homeland and northern abolitionists preached the good news of liberation for slaves. Gerrit Smith and William Lloyd Garrison abandoned pacifism, and Garrison changed the motto of The Liberator to Leviticus 25:10, "Proclaim Liberty throughout all the land, and to all the inhabitants thereof." The YMCA joined with other societies to found the United States Christian Commission, with the goal of supporting Union soldiers, and churches collected $6 million for their cause.

Harriet Tubman, considered by many to be a prophet due to her success as a liberator with the Underground Railroad, warned "God won't let master Lincoln beat the South till he does the right thing" by emancipating slaves. Popular songs such as John Brown's Body (later The Battle Hymn of the Republic) contained verses which painted the northern war effort as a religious struggle to end slavery. Even Abraham Lincoln appealed to religious sentiments, suggesting in various speeches that God had brought on the war as punishment for slavery, while acknowledging in his Inaugural Address that both sides "read the same Bible, and pray to the same God; and each invokes His aid against the other."

With the Union victory in the war and a constitutional ban on slavery, abolitionist Christians also declared a religious victory over their slave-holding brethren in the South. Southern religious leaders who had preached a message of divine protection were now left to reconsider their theology.
 
Skyrocketing debt, skyrocketing spending, huge growth of the dept of education including no child left behind, expanding gov't by inventing the dept of homeland security, the liberal notion of "saving Iraq from an evil dictator", welfare budgets that set records all 8 years of his presidency in terms of spending, I could go on all day, you can make excuses for it as a partisan, as a conservative I cannot.

no child left behind was an attempt to reach across the aisle
i agree that was another increase we did not need
GWB without 9-11 comes cole to 8 years of a balanced budget
Any way I have stated many times my feelings on his spending

Drock 08-09 was close to 1/2 of his total deficits
Thats was done with a left wing lead congress
I do not know what else to say
he was handed a recession, 9-11, Enron and Al Gore and a serious stock market crash in his first 300 days
we got thru it and had 5 great years after that
He stood up when the wheels came off and had the guts to save wall street which save trillions in 401ks with our wealth
we got that money back, unlike Obama has done
He waited 18 months before we invaded Iraq, Quitely closed bases in Saudi and Kuwait after
He stood by his people when he should not have, and made tough choices when he had to and ended the Iraq war before he left while at the same time added 100s of billions to our debt by giving the tax payer money in his style of a stimulus instead of the unions and god knows who else like was done in 09

GWB is not my hero, but he is a great man that deserves allor better than he is getting

Like I said you'll make excuses for him all day because he's your hero and you're a hardcore partisan.

No real conservative would EVER say bailing out Wall Street was the right thing to do.

excuses?
Drock everyone has there own opinion as to what is an excuse and what is a conservative

Drock 08-09 was close to 1/2 of his total deficits (fact)
Thats was done with a left wing lead congress (fact)
I do not know what else to say
he was handed a recession, 9-11, Enron and Al Gore and a serious stock market crash in his first 300 days (facts)
we got thru it and had 5 great years after that (that included the creation of over 6 million jobs)
He stood up when the wheels came off and had the guts to save wall street which save trillions in 401ks with our wealth (fact)
we got that money back, unlike Obama has done (better check on AIG)
He waited 18 months before we invaded Iraq, Quitely closed bases in Saudi and Kuwait after (fact)
He stood by his people when he should not have, and made tough choices when he had to and ended the Iraq war before he left while at the same time added 100s of billions to our debt by giving the tax payer money in his style of a stimulus instead of the unions and god knows who else like was done in 09

thats called information Doc
thats not an excuse
as far as "bailing out wall street"
you obviously do not have a 401K. It was the right thing to do and best of all it saved this country from a financial collapse
 
no child left behind was an attempt to reach across the aisle
i agree that was another increase we did not need
GWB without 9-11 comes cole to 8 years of a balanced budget
Any way I have stated many times my feelings on his spending

Drock 08-09 was close to 1/2 of his total deficits
Thats was done with a left wing lead congress
I do not know what else to say
he was handed a recession, 9-11, Enron and Al Gore and a serious stock market crash in his first 300 days
we got thru it and had 5 great years after that
He stood up when the wheels came off and had the guts to save wall street which save trillions in 401ks with our wealth
we got that money back, unlike Obama has done
He waited 18 months before we invaded Iraq, Quitely closed bases in Saudi and Kuwait after
He stood by his people when he should not have, and made tough choices when he had to and ended the Iraq war before he left while at the same time added 100s of billions to our debt by giving the tax payer money in his style of a stimulus instead of the unions and god knows who else like was done in 09

GWB is not my hero, but he is a great man that deserves allor better than he is getting

Like I said you'll make excuses for him all day because he's your hero and you're a hardcore partisan.

No real conservative would EVER say bailing out Wall Street was the right thing to do.

excuses?
Drock everyone has there own opinion as to what is an excuse and what is a conservative

Drock 08-09 was close to 1/2 of his total deficits (fact)
Thats was done with a left wing lead congress (fact)
I do not know what else to say
he was handed a recession, 9-11, Enron and Al Gore and a serious stock market crash in his first 300 days (facts)
we got thru it and had 5 great years after that (that included the creation of over 6 million jobs)
He stood up when the wheels came off and had the guts to save wall street which save trillions in 401ks with our wealth (fact)
we got that money back, unlike Obama has done (better check on AIG)
He waited 18 months before we invaded Iraq, Quitely closed bases in Saudi and Kuwait after (fact)
He stood by his people when he should not have, and made tough choices when he had to and ended the Iraq war before he left while at the same time added 100s of billions to our debt by giving the tax payer money in his style of a stimulus instead of the unions and god knows who else like was done in 09

thats called information Doc
thats not an excuse
as far as "bailing out wall street"
you obviously do not have a 401K. It was the right thing to do and best of all it saved this country from a financial collapse

Did his democrat congress force him to sign the budget? No, that's another excuse.

If you're handed a recession you should cut back on spending, not wildly increase spending. Another excuse.

A recession went on for that long and you give him credit for that? Wowzers

The Wall Street bailout was liberal socialism at its finest, something I'm always against.
 
how is less money circulating in the economy going to fix a downturn?

how do you people manage to be so gullible?
 
Why does this debate continue? The Constitution guarantees the American citizen the right to live freely within the law. In order for any person of faith or lack thereof to live freely they must be allowed respect and consideration for their faith or lack thereof. If religion were to enter the public area or the commons as it is sometimes referred to, then that respect of the divide between personal belief and a particular religion's belief would be abolished. Believe whatever you want, practice whatever you want, but keep that whatever away from the public realm where it would constitute an infringement of the constitution and an infringement of another citizen's right.
 
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Like I said you'll make excuses for him all day because he's your hero and you're a hardcore partisan.

No real conservative would EVER say bailing out Wall Street was the right thing to do.

excuses?
Drock everyone has there own opinion as to what is an excuse and what is a conservative

Drock 08-09 was close to 1/2 of his total deficits (fact)
Thats was done with a left wing lead congress (fact)
I do not know what else to say
he was handed a recession, 9-11, Enron and Al Gore and a serious stock market crash in his first 300 days (facts)
we got thru it and had 5 great years after that (that included the creation of over 6 million jobs)
He stood up when the wheels came off and had the guts to save wall street which save trillions in 401ks with our wealth (fact)
we got that money back, unlike Obama has done (better check on AIG)
He waited 18 months before we invaded Iraq, Quitely closed bases in Saudi and Kuwait after (fact)
He stood by his people when he should not have, and made tough choices when he had to and ended the Iraq war before he left while at the same time added 100s of billions to our debt by giving the tax payer money in his style of a stimulus instead of the unions and god knows who else like was done in 09

thats called information Doc
thats not an excuse
as far as "bailing out wall street"
you obviously do not have a 401K. It was the right thing to do and best of all it saved this country from a financial collapse

Did his democrat congress force him to sign the budget? No, that's another excuse.

If you're handed a recession you should cut back on spending, not wildly increase spending. Another excuse.

A recession went on for that long and you give him credit for that? Wowzers

The Wall Street bailout was liberal socialism at its finest, something I'm always against.

Drock I hate o say this but you are clueless
I mean no dis respect but you are clueless, where do I start?
2008 budget
Submitted by George W. Bush
Submitted to 110th Congress
Total revenue $2.7 trillion (estimated)
Total expenditures $2.9 trillion (estimated)
Deficit $239 billion (estimated)
$454.8 billion (actual) due to stock market crash and loss of jobs (tax revenue)
Debt $9.985 trillion (estimated)
Website US Government Printing Office

The last one GWB signed

2009 budget BHO signed
Obama signs massive, 'imperfect' spending bill - politics - White House - msnbc.com

The recession was caused by people making bad loans to people who did not pay for those bad loans
what did anyone in Washington have to do with that?
Doc we did this one to our selves. people keep making there payments, no recession, no wall street crises, no-one never allowing a crises to go to waste

Socialism?
to give an institution a secured loan is not socialism
thats what GWB version of tarp was


to give a institution a un secured loan while ignoring contract law is
Thats the way BHO did it
you want socialism, there it is
http://www.marketskeptics.com/2009/05/obama-administration-tearing-contract.html

the tax payer gave those banks secured loans that our Representatives approved
as constitutional as it gets Doc


Doc your why people like BHO got elected
do your DD Doc on these issues, your so far off base I do not know even where to start
 
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excuses?
Drock everyone has there own opinion as to what is an excuse and what is a conservative

Drock 08-09 was close to 1/2 of his total deficits (fact)
Thats was done with a left wing lead congress (fact)
I do not know what else to say
he was handed a recession, 9-11, Enron and Al Gore and a serious stock market crash in his first 300 days (facts)
we got thru it and had 5 great years after that (that included the creation of over 6 million jobs)
He stood up when the wheels came off and had the guts to save wall street which save trillions in 401ks with our wealth (fact)
we got that money back, unlike Obama has done (better check on AIG)
He waited 18 months before we invaded Iraq, Quitely closed bases in Saudi and Kuwait after (fact)
He stood by his people when he should not have, and made tough choices when he had to and ended the Iraq war before he left while at the same time added 100s of billions to our debt by giving the tax payer money in his style of a stimulus instead of the unions and god knows who else like was done in 09

thats called information Doc
thats not an excuse
as far as "bailing out wall street"
you obviously do not have a 401K. It was the right thing to do and best of all it saved this country from a financial collapse

Did his democrat congress force him to sign the budget? No, that's another excuse.

If you're handed a recession you should cut back on spending, not wildly increase spending. Another excuse.

A recession went on for that long and you give him credit for that? Wowzers

The Wall Street bailout was liberal socialism at its finest, something I'm always against.

Drock I hate o say this but you are clueless
I mean no dis respect but you are clueless, where do I start?
2008 budget
Submitted by George W. Bush
Submitted to 110th Congress
Total revenue $2.7 trillion (estimated)
Total expenditures $2.9 trillion (estimated)
Deficit $239 billion (estimated)
$454.8 billion (actual) due to stock market crash and loss of jobs (tax revenue)
Debt $9.985 trillion (estimated)
Website US Government Printing Office

The last one GWB signed

2009 budget BHO signed
Obama signs massive, 'imperfect' spending bill - politics - White House - msnbc.com

The recession was caused by people making bad loans to people who did not pay for those bad loans
what did anyone in Washington have to do with that?
Doc we did this one to our selves. people keep making there payments, no recession, no wall street crises, no-one never allowing a crises to go to waste

Socialism?
to give an institution a secured loan is not socialism
thats what GWB version of tarp was


to give a institution a un secured loan while ignoring contract law is
Thats the way BHO did it
you want socialism, there it is
http://www.marketskeptics.com/2009/05/obama-administration-tearing-contract.html

the tax payer gave those banks secured loans that our Representatives approved
as constitutional as it gets Doc


Doc your why people like BHO got elected
do your DD Doc on these issues, your so far off base I do not know even where to start

So your hero gave us $10 trillion in debt and you still think of him as a great conservative icon and you still consider yourself a conservative despite supporting this out of control spender.

You approve of US citizens being taxed enough so government can give out special loans to their favorite companies? You're right that's not socialism, it's more like facism.

You keep bringing up Obama, I agree he's awful. But Obama being liberal doesn't mean Bush wasn't liberal, he was.

It's people like you who keep thinking rehashing the same status quo republicans and democrats will lead to any real change in america. No matter what republican is elected I GUARANTEE they will outspend crazy liberal Obama, just like your hero Bush found a way to outspend super liberal Clinton by lightyears.
 
Did his democrat congress force him to sign the budget? No, that's another excuse.

If you're handed a recession you should cut back on spending, not wildly increase spending. Another excuse.

A recession went on for that long and you give him credit for that? Wowzers

The Wall Street bailout was liberal socialism at its finest, something I'm always against.

Drock I hate o say this but you are clueless
I mean no dis respect but you are clueless, where do I start?
2008 budget
Submitted by George W. Bush
Submitted to 110th Congress
Total revenue $2.7 trillion (estimated)
Total expenditures $2.9 trillion (estimated)
Deficit $239 billion (estimated)
$454.8 billion (actual) due to stock market crash and loss of jobs (tax revenue)
Debt $9.985 trillion (estimated)
Website US Government Printing Office

The last one GWB signed

2009 budget BHO signed
Obama signs massive, 'imperfect' spending bill - politics - White House - msnbc.com

The recession was caused by people making bad loans to people who did not pay for those bad loans
what did anyone in Washington have to do with that?
Doc we did this one to our selves. people keep making there payments, no recession, no wall street crises, no-one never allowing a crises to go to waste

Socialism?
to give an institution a secured loan is not socialism
thats what GWB version of tarp was


to give a institution a un secured loan while ignoring contract law is
Thats the way BHO did it
you want socialism, there it is
http://www.marketskeptics.com/2009/05/obama-administration-tearing-contract.html

the tax payer gave those banks secured loans that our Representatives approved
as constitutional as it gets Doc


Doc your why people like BHO got elected
do your DD Doc on these issues, your so far off base I do not know even where to start

So your hero gave us $10 trillion in debt and you still think of him as a great conservative icon and you still consider yourself a conservative despite supporting this out of control spender.

You approve of US citizens being taxed enough so government can give out special loans to their favorite companies? You're right that's not socialism, it's more like facism.

You keep bringing up Obama, I agree he's awful. But Obama being liberal doesn't mean Bush wasn't liberal, he was.

It's people like you who keep thinking rehashing the same status quo republicans and democrats will lead to any real change in america. No matter what republican is elected I GUARANTEE they will outspend crazy liberal Obama, just like your hero Bush found a way to outspend super liberal Clinton by lightyears.

Dude your so lost
the 10 trillion is from the start of time, GWB added about 2.5 trillion
I approve of the type of govt we have in place
its called a republic
I am no re hashing nothing. You keep putting out information that in a different situation would be liable, but here is just not true
I keep correcting it
thats all

couple other things
Clinton did nothing but sign the legislation that the GOP put into place to balance the budget
That group did not have to contend with 9-11
nor did at any time was there 2 million fewer people paying income taxes

Information is crucial
 
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Drock I hate o say this but you are clueless
I mean no dis respect but you are clueless, where do I start?
2008 budget
Submitted by George W. Bush
Submitted to 110th Congress
Total revenue $2.7 trillion (estimated)
Total expenditures $2.9 trillion (estimated)
Deficit $239 billion (estimated)
$454.8 billion (actual) due to stock market crash and loss of jobs (tax revenue)
Debt $9.985 trillion (estimated)
Website US Government Printing Office

The last one GWB signed

2009 budget BHO signed
Obama signs massive, 'imperfect' spending bill - politics - White House - msnbc.com

The recession was caused by people making bad loans to people who did not pay for those bad loans
what did anyone in Washington have to do with that?
Doc we did this one to our selves. people keep making there payments, no recession, no wall street crises, no-one never allowing a crises to go to waste

Socialism?
to give an institution a secured loan is not socialism
thats what GWB version of tarp was


to give a institution a un secured loan while ignoring contract law is
Thats the way BHO did it
you want socialism, there it is
http://www.marketskeptics.com/2009/05/obama-administration-tearing-contract.html

the tax payer gave those banks secured loans that our Representatives approved
as constitutional as it gets Doc


Doc your why people like BHO got elected
do your DD Doc on these issues, your so far off base I do not know even where to start

So your hero gave us $10 trillion in debt and you still think of him as a great conservative icon and you still consider yourself a conservative despite supporting this out of control spender.

You approve of US citizens being taxed enough so government can give out special loans to their favorite companies? You're right that's not socialism, it's more like facism.

You keep bringing up Obama, I agree he's awful. But Obama being liberal doesn't mean Bush wasn't liberal, he was.

It's people like you who keep thinking rehashing the same status quo republicans and democrats will lead to any real change in america. No matter what republican is elected I GUARANTEE they will outspend crazy liberal Obama, just like your hero Bush found a way to outspend super liberal Clinton by lightyears.

Dude your so lost
the 10 trillion is from the start of time, GWB added about 2.5 trillion
I approve of the type of govt we have in place
its called a republic
I am no re hashing nothing. You keep putting out information that in a different situation would be liable, but here is just not true
I keep correcting it
thats all

Libel and slander now lol, your hero Bush wasn't a conservative, I'm sorry you're offended by this truth but it being the way it is isn't my fault.

National debt by U.S. presidential terms - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I have no idea where you're getting your twisted figures, during Bush's terms the national debt went up by $6 trillion. Tell me again how he's such a conservative icon..............

By voting for the status quo big government republicans your party of choice props up, yes you're rehashing the same losers we've had in my 26 years of life. Awful reps and dems who will never change anything for the better and will grow government and increase spending every year, no matter who's in office.
 
Both Bush and Obama have spent to much.
But Obama has been even worse that the 8 years of Bush.

the national debt – as in the total public debt owed – increased on Clinton’s watch, and like all recent presidents, Clinton left the country with more than a trillion dollars deeper in debt than when he began — even with the late 1990s economic boom.

According to U.S. Treasury figures at Debt to the Penny, on January 20, 1993, as Bill Clinton took office, the total outstanding public debt was $4.1 trillion. On January 19, 2001, that same figure had increased to $5.7 trillion.

The debt during Bush’s eight years in office increased from $5.7 trillion to $10.6 trillion, or $4.9 trillion over eight years. That’s bad; that’s basically $610 billion per year. But in the less than three years Obama has been in office, the debt has increased from $10.6 trillion to $14.2 trillion, a $3.6 trillion increase in about 27 months. In other words, Obama is increasing the debt by $1.6 trillion per year, three times as fast as Bush.

And then add the 2.5 trillion debt ceiling that was just raised, that is a total of 6.1 trillion in four years.
 
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Both Bush and Obama have spent to much.
But Obama has been even worse that the 8 years of Bush.

the national debt – as in the total public debt owed – increased on Clinton’s watch, and like all recent presidents, Clinton left the country with more than a trillion dollars deeper in debt than when he began — even with the late 1990s economic boom.

According to U.S. Treasury figures at Debt to the Penny, on January 20, 1993, as Bill Clinton took office, the total outstanding public debt was $4.1 trillion. On January 19, 2001, that same figure had increased to $5.7 trillion.

The debt during Bush’s eight years in office increased from $5.7 trillion to $10.6 trillion, or $4.9 trillion over eight years. That’s bad; that’s basically $610 billion per year. But in the less than three years Obama has been in office, the debt has increased from $10.6 trillion to $14.2 trillion, a $3.6 trillion increase in about 27 months. In other words, Obama is increasing the debt by $1.6 trillion per year, three times as fast as Bush.

And then add the 2.5 trillion debt ceiling that was just raised, that is a total of 6.1 trillion in four years.

The total debt is not the same as the yearly deficits
It does make a difference when it comes to the policy
also 2009 was held against GWB
it has tarp
failed stimulus and Obama's budget in 09 (GWB would not sign it)

your numbers for total debt are correct
But remember that the GOP congress with Clinton did have a balanced budget for 98-99-01 but your correct in the total debt went up
policies were good as GWB had in 02-06-07 where he got close to a balanced budget (07 163 billion)
total deficit also would include the interest on the debt one in herited
 
Persecution and reform both came about by organized religion in America.


So the idea that the First Amendment is supposed to keep religion from influencing government is wrong, indeed, an impossibility, given that human beings to not leave their ideological convictions, regardless of their nature, at the door when they enter the political fray.

The leftist's argument is patently absurd, the logic of which would disenfranchise the religious.

Lefty is just spouting the separation of the former Soviet Union.
 
So your hero gave us $10 trillion in debt and you still think of him as a great conservative icon and you still consider yourself a conservative despite supporting this out of control spender.

You approve of US citizens being taxed enough so government can give out special loans to their favorite companies? You're right that's not socialism, it's more like facism.

You keep bringing up Obama, I agree he's awful. But Obama being liberal doesn't mean Bush wasn't liberal, he was.

It's people like you who keep thinking rehashing the same status quo republicans and democrats will lead to any real change in america. No matter what republican is elected I GUARANTEE they will outspend crazy liberal Obama, just like your hero Bush found a way to outspend super liberal Clinton by lightyears.

Dude your so lost
the 10 trillion is from the start of time, GWB added about 2.5 trillion
I approve of the type of govt we have in place
its called a republic
I am no re hashing nothing. You keep putting out information that in a different situation would be liable, but here is just not true
I keep correcting it
thats all

Libel and slander now lol, your hero Bush wasn't a conservative, I'm sorry you're offended by this truth but it being the way it is isn't my fault.

National debt by U.S. presidential terms - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I have no idea where you're getting your twisted figures, during Bush's terms the national debt went up by $6 trillion. Tell me again how he's such a conservative icon..............

By voting for the status quo big government republicans your party of choice props up, yes you're rehashing the same losers we've had in my 26 years of life. Awful reps and dems who will never change anything for the better and will grow government and increase spending every year, no matter who's in office.

There is a huge difference in total debt and deficits
thats were I get those numbers
I will us the 07 budget as an example

Submitted by George W. Bush
Submitted to 109th Congress
Total revenue $2.57 trillion
Total expenditures $2.73 trillion
Deficit $161 billion
Debt $8.95 trillion
Website Congressional Budget Office

Dude you need to chill out and stop with the bashing. I dont care what your feelings are about any-one. All I care about is the truth and thats were you have been wrong so many times I do not know where it will end
and yes in the real world telling the lies you have told could be seen as to be slanderous of ones reputation
your a liberal, acting like a paid spammer
all your doing is going to the same play book all of you go to. yes the total debt went up as you said it did
yes most of 2009 was BHO, but GWB is credited for that debt. Its just facts dude
Its not anything else so chill out

This is not an effort to influence you in any way, Its to make damn sure this time the truth is told
 
Dude your so lost
the 10 trillion is from the start of time, GWB added about 2.5 trillion
I approve of the type of govt we have in place
its called a republic
I am no re hashing nothing. You keep putting out information that in a different situation would be liable, but here is just not true
I keep correcting it
thats all

Libel and slander now lol, your hero Bush wasn't a conservative, I'm sorry you're offended by this truth but it being the way it is isn't my fault.

National debt by U.S. presidential terms - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I have no idea where you're getting your twisted figures, during Bush's terms the national debt went up by $6 trillion. Tell me again how he's such a conservative icon..............

By voting for the status quo big government republicans your party of choice props up, yes you're rehashing the same losers we've had in my 26 years of life. Awful reps and dems who will never change anything for the better and will grow government and increase spending every year, no matter who's in office.

There is a huge difference in total debt and deficits
thats were I get those numbers
I will us the 07 budget as an example

Submitted by George W. Bush
Submitted to 109th Congress
Total revenue $2.57 trillion
Total expenditures $2.73 trillion
Deficit $161 billion
Debt $8.95 trillion
Website Congressional Budget Office

Dude you need to chill out and stop with the bashing. I dont care what your feelings are about any-one. All I care about is the truth and thats were you have been wrong so many times I do not know where it will end
and yes in the real world telling the lies you have told could be seen as to be slanderous of ones reputation
your a liberal, acting like a paid spammer
all your doing is going to the same play book all of you go to. yes the total debt went up as you said it did
yes most of 2009 was BHO, but GWB is credited for that debt. Its just facts dude
Its not anything else so chill out

This is not an effort to influence you in any way, Its to make damn sure this time the truth is told

Yeah I'm a liberal because I'm speaking out against big government spending and increasing debt. If I were a conservative I'd be using terms like he "only" increased debt a few trillion :lol:.



You know what an actual conservative would do? LOWER the debt, not increase by whatever amount of trillions you want to go by.
 
Libel and slander now lol, your hero Bush wasn't a conservative, I'm sorry you're offended by this truth but it being the way it is isn't my fault.

National debt by U.S. presidential terms - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I have no idea where you're getting your twisted figures, during Bush's terms the national debt went up by $6 trillion. Tell me again how he's such a conservative icon..............

By voting for the status quo big government republicans your party of choice props up, yes you're rehashing the same losers we've had in my 26 years of life. Awful reps and dems who will never change anything for the better and will grow government and increase spending every year, no matter who's in office.

There is a huge difference in total debt and deficits
thats were I get those numbers
I will us the 07 budget as an example

Submitted by George W. Bush
Submitted to 109th Congress
Total revenue $2.57 trillion
Total expenditures $2.73 trillion
Deficit $161 billion
Debt $8.95 trillion
Website Congressional Budget Office

Dude you need to chill out and stop with the bashing. I dont care what your feelings are about any-one. All I care about is the truth and thats were you have been wrong so many times I do not know where it will end
and yes in the real world telling the lies you have told could be seen as to be slanderous of ones reputation
your a liberal, acting like a paid spammer
all your doing is going to the same play book all of you go to. yes the total debt went up as you said it did
yes most of 2009 was BHO, but GWB is credited for that debt. Its just facts dude
Its not anything else so chill out

This is not an effort to influence you in any way, Its to make damn sure this time the truth is told

Yeah I'm a liberal because I'm speaking out against big government spending and increasing debt. If I were a conservative I'd be using terms like he "only" increased debt a few trillion :lol:.



You know what an actual conservative would do? LOWER the debt, not increase by whatever amount of trillions you want to go by.

No because the truth about GWB means nothing to you
The man
what he overcame
and his real performance as our president
you have called these facts excuses
you have run straight to the liberal play-book and at times going beyond
I have never claimed GWB was a conservative, but as the president thru the times we have had in the 11 years all I can say is the man who followed him showed the world just how "bad" a job GWB did
that does not need me to defend it, it only requires the truth to represent it
 
There is a huge difference in total debt and deficits
thats were I get those numbers
I will us the 07 budget as an example

Submitted by George W. Bush
Submitted to 109th Congress
Total revenue $2.57 trillion
Total expenditures $2.73 trillion
Deficit $161 billion
Debt $8.95 trillion
Website Congressional Budget Office

Dude you need to chill out and stop with the bashing. I dont care what your feelings are about any-one. All I care about is the truth and thats were you have been wrong so many times I do not know where it will end
and yes in the real world telling the lies you have told could be seen as to be slanderous of ones reputation
your a liberal, acting like a paid spammer
all your doing is going to the same play book all of you go to. yes the total debt went up as you said it did
yes most of 2009 was BHO, but GWB is credited for that debt. Its just facts dude
Its not anything else so chill out

This is not an effort to influence you in any way, Its to make damn sure this time the truth is told

Yeah I'm a liberal because I'm speaking out against big government spending and increasing debt. If I were a conservative I'd be using terms like he "only" increased debt a few trillion :lol:.



You know what an actual conservative would do? LOWER the debt, not increase by whatever amount of trillions you want to go by.

No because the truth about GWB means nothing to you
The man
what he overcame
and his real performance as our president
you have called these facts excuses
you have run straight to the liberal play-book and at times going beyond
I have never claimed GWB was a conservative, but as the president thru the times we have had in the 11 years all I can say is the man who followed him showed the world just how "bad" a job GWB did
that does not need me to defend it, it only requires the truth to represent it

Ok fine I'll go by your version of "facts", he increased the debt by $3 trillion, nothing else needs said. He's a big spending lib who's too fiscally irresponsible to keep from increasing an already too high debt.
 
Yeah I'm a liberal because I'm speaking out against big government spending and increasing debt. If I were a conservative I'd be using terms like he "only" increased debt a few trillion :lol:.



You know what an actual conservative would do? LOWER the debt, not increase by whatever amount of trillions you want to go by.

No because the truth about GWB means nothing to you
The man
what he overcame
and his real performance as our president
you have called these facts excuses
you have run straight to the liberal play-book and at times going beyond
I have never claimed GWB was a conservative, but as the president thru the times we have had in the 11 years all I can say is the man who followed him showed the world just how "bad" a job GWB did
that does not need me to defend it, it only requires the truth to represent it

Ok fine I'll go by your version of "facts", he increased the debt by $3 trillion, nothing else needs said. He's a big spending lib who's too fiscally irresponsible to keep from increasing an already too high debt.

Look your opinion of all of it is just that, your opinion. I have not had issue with that
 
No because the truth about GWB means nothing to you
The man
what he overcame
and his real performance as our president
you have called these facts excuses
you have run straight to the liberal play-book and at times going beyond
I have never claimed GWB was a conservative, but as the president thru the times we have had in the 11 years all I can say is the man who followed him showed the world just how "bad" a job GWB did
that does not need me to defend it, it only requires the truth to represent it

Ok fine I'll go by your version of "facts", he increased the debt by $3 trillion, nothing else needs said. He's a big spending lib who's too fiscally irresponsible to keep from increasing an already too high debt.

Look your opinion of all of it is just that, your opinion. I have not had issue with that

I dunno if it's opinion. I thought being a conservative was about pulling back gov't, not making it bigger, pulling back spending, not increasing it, lowering welfare/social security/medicaid budgets, not increasing, lowering debt, not increasing.

Seems more like fact than opinion to me.
 
Ok fine I'll go by your version of "facts", he increased the debt by $3 trillion, nothing else needs said. He's a big spending lib who's too fiscally irresponsible to keep from increasing an already too high debt.

Look your opinion of all of it is just that, your opinion. I have not had issue with that

I dunno if it's opinion. I thought being a conservative was about pulling back gov't, not making it bigger, pulling back spending, not increasing it, lowering welfare/social security/medicaid budgets, not increasing, lowering debt, not increasing.

Seems more like fact than opinion to me.

Unless you start with accurate information then how do you know what that is?
with 5% UE we got within 162 billion in 2007. I kept stating this because it gives us a baseline to have cut spending to a point in which we had a balanced budget

CBO has estimated that "war-related defense activities" in 2007 were "roughly $115 billion." (CBO, The Budget and Economic Outlook: An Update, August 2007, Box 1-1, available at <http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdoc.cfm?index=8565&type=0>) See Below for total defense spending.

there 60 billion there (Iraq is over)
you can pick and choose the rest
this was how close we got prior to the Libs taking over congress in 07. Of course 10% UE is not helping either


$586.1 billion (+7.0%) - Social Security
$548.8 billion (+9.0%) - Defense[2]
$394.5 billion (+12.4%) - Medicare
$294.0 billion (+2.0%) - Unemployment and welfare
$276.4 billion (+2.9%) - Medicaid and other health related
$243.7 billion (+13.4%) - Interest on debt
$89.9 billion (+1.3%) - Education and training
$76.9 billion (+8.1%) - Transportation
$72.6 billion (+5.8%) - Veterans' benefits
$43.5 billion (+9.2%) - Administration of justice
$33.1 billion (+5.7%) - Natural resources and environment
$32.5 billion (+15.4%) - Foreign affairs
$27.0 billion (+3.7%) - Agriculture
$26.8 billion (+28.7%) - Community and regional development
$25.0 billion (+4.0%) - Science and technology
$20.5 billion (+0.8%) - Energy
$20.1 billion (+11.4%) - General government
 

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