Another win for Religious Liberty

[Bob Blaylock]

No sane person is interested in your twisted, intellectually-dishonest claims about what Jesus said.

Do you remember the WWJD? fad? One of the few fads I ever approved of. What would Jesus do? Do you really think Jesus would let a migrant die of thirst when he had a jug of water in his hand? When I wonder what Jesus would think about something It's pretty simple to figure out. I pick the most virtuous, humble and kind action I can think of and then cover it all with grace and dignity. Then I tell myself it is still only the best version of goodness that an ordinary human can conceive.

I wouldn't presume to speak for Jesus, and state what he would necessarily do in a given situation, but if it were me, attempting to act in the best representation of Jesus, and having what abilities Jesus would have had, I'd probably do what was necessary to save the life of that “migrant”, but I'd send him back to his own country, and tell him to stay there where he rightfully belongs. I would certainly not assist him in illegally invading a country where he has no legitimate business being, and I think it blasphemous to suggest that Jesus himself would do so.

 

[Bob Blaylock]

“The devil can cite Scripture for his purpose.

An evil soul producing holy witness
Is like a villain with a smiling cheek,
A goodly apple rotten at the heart.
O, what a goodly outside falsehood hath!”

― William Shakespeare, The Merchant of Venice​

Quod erat demonstrandum.

Typical. A right wing "Christian" running to the OLD testament for a justification to ignore Jesus. Remember Him? The guy that said don't be a selfish wrathful greedy asshole?

 

[occupied]

No sane person is interested in your twisted, intellectually-dishonest claims about what Jesus said.

Do you remember the WWJD? fad? One of the few fads I ever approved of. What would Jesus do? Do you really think Jesus would let a migrant die of thirst when he had a jug of water in his hand? When I wonder what Jesus would think about something It's pretty simple to figure out. I pick the most virtuous, humble and kind action I can think of and then cover it all with grace and dignity. Then I tell myself it is still only the best version of goodness that an ordinary human can conceive.

I wouldn't presume to speak for Jesus, and state what he would necessarily do in a given situation, but if it were me, attempting to act in the best representation of Jesus, and having what abilities Jesus would have had, I'd probably do what was necessary to save the life of that “migrant”, but I'd send him back to his own country, and tell him to stay there where he rightfully belongs. I would certainly not assist him in illegally invading a country where he has no legitimate business being, and I think it blasphemous to suggest that Jesus himself would do so.

if it was just you and a person dying of thirst I do not doubt you would give them water. I just happen to feel the same way about people who are dying beyond my sight. I hear about someone else giving another person water when they are thirsty I do not care about the circumstances. If something is good here it is good over there.

 

[Andylusion]

For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me,

Quoting myself:

That debate might work with some, but truth is if a person came to my house in serious trouble, I would help them without a second thought. I would bring them into my house, and do whatever I could to help them.​

Again... "go help illegals in the desert" is not in the Bible. Helping people in general, most certainly is, and we Christians do this routinely. But there is no "go help illegals in the desert". Not there.

That they view the verse differently than you do does not make them wrong and you right. You cannot honestly argue they are not following the passage.

Which is my point. They have no creeds at all. So you can't say "This is my religious creed", because it isn't. The group you belong to, has no creeds.

So basically it's just you making up that you want to do something, and saying it is part of your religion.... because.... things.... and stuff.....

The organization that is the UU has no specifics creeds, but the individual members of the organization do. And that is what matters.

He's just making it up. So can we make up anything, and claim it's part of our religion? Can the alt-right, say it's part of their religion to protect the national border from an invasion, and go out there shooting illegals in the desert?

can you find a passage from a religious text that tells you to do that?

Unitarian Universalist do not teach Jesus. If they did, then Jesus taught that no one comes to the father, but by him. How can you believe that Jesus is the only way to Heaven, and that there are no creeds?

Either that church of nothing is wrong, and Jesus is right, or Jesus was full of it, and there are no creeds. These are mutually exclusive beliefs. So spare me this idea that I don't know what Jesus taught, while defending a cult that opposes what Jesus taught.

Moreover, as I said.... Christians all over the world do all those good things for people. There is no "must go help illegal migrants in the desert" in the Bible. Not a thing. You are just making it up.

As I said above, the members of the UU have their creeds. There are Christian members of the UU. I have given you the passage, you choose to pretend it is not there. They are doing exactly what the passage told them to do.

I'm amused. You call out the teaching of Jesus, and then post something like this.

Ephesians 4:29

Do not let any unwholesome talk come out of your mouths, but only what is helpful for building others up according to their needs, that it may benefit those who listen.
​

Rather unwholesome to be swearing and cussing like that. If you are not a follower of Jesus, then you can say whatever you want. But if you are not, then you shouldn't be trying to lecture others on what Jesus taught.

Unwholesome talk is in the eye of the beholder. Words that are "profane" or such constantly change. The teachings of Jesus are there for everyone to see and study, not just those that claim to follow him.

I stand by what I said. It is true, and accurate.

If you don't think that people who cross the desert, and find that food and water, are not reporting back to people in Mexico, that there is food and water left in the desert for them.... then you really don't know what you are talking about. People that are here, are most certainly coordinating with those back in Mexico. It would be quite foolish to think otherwise.

You can stand by it all you like, what you cannot do is support it with anything but "because I said so". There is not one iota of evidence that people choose to cross our border because there might be some food and water left at a certain spot.

That they view the verse differently than you do does not make them wrong and you right. You cannot honestly argue they are not following the passage.

Irrelevant. The man in the article said specifically that going into the desert and leaving food and water, was part of his freedom of religion.

There is either a verse that says go help illegal migrants avoid dehydration in the desert..... or there isn't. That verse does not say that. Doesn't matter what "view" you have. It either says that, or it does not say that. End of discussion.

The organization that is the UU has no specifics creeds, but the individual members of the organization do. And that is what matters.

Then the alt-right crazy people have individual creeds, and you can't stop them in the name of religious freedom.

can you find a passage from a religious text that tells you to do that?

Don't need to, according to your own words:

That they view the verse differently than you do does not make them wrong and you right. You cannot honestly argue they are not following the passage.
The organization that is the UU has no specifics creeds, but the individual members of the organization do. And that is what matters.​

According to your own statements, it doesn't have to say anything. They can just "view the verse differently" and "no creeds, but individuals of the org do". So that's all they need. It's their religious freedom, and you, by the standard you yourself set, need to respect that.

Unwholesome talk is in the eye of the beholder. Words that are "profane" or such constantly change. The teachings of Jesus are there for everyone to see and study, not just those that claim to follow him.

Ridiculous. If unwholesome talk was in the eye of the beholder, then G-d and the apostles would never have put that verse in the Bible to begin with, because it would be pointless. Everyone would just say "not unwholesome in my view!".

 

[Harpy Eagle]

can you find a passage from a religious text that tells you to do that?

Don't need to, according to your own words:

That they view the verse differently than you do does not make them wrong and you right. You cannot honestly argue they are not following the passage.
The organization that is the UU has no specifics creeds, but the individual members of the organization do. And that is what matters.​

According to your own statements, it doesn't have to say anything. They can just "view the verse differently" and "no creeds, but individuals of the org do". So that's all they need. It's their religious freedom, and you, by the standard you yourself set, need to respect that.

True, I did say that. But you said it has to say it specifically, so I think it is only right that you abide by your own standards. You cannot have it both ways.

Ridiculous. If unwholesome talk was in the eye of the beholder, then G-d and the apostles would never have put that verse in the Bible to begin with, because it would be pointless. Everyone would just say "not unwholesome in my view!".

Not at all. Unwholesome words, or what are viewed as unwholesome words change over time. Words that are unwholesome today are not the same as words that were unwholesome 100 years ago.

 

[Stormy Daniels]

Religious liberty is used to justify discrimination.
It is used to justify refusing service (medical, pharmacy) to those in need.
But can’t be used for SAVING LIVES?

That is some seriously warped religious values.

Religious freedom only applies pre-birth. After birth it becomes a stand your ground issue.

 

[The Irish Ram]

Matthew 25:35-40 New International Version (NIV)
35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’

37 “Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’

40 “The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’

And yet God, in His infinite wisdom told the Jews to build a wall! God, unlike our liberals, had no problem identifying the enemy...

I was wondering if any of you were stupid enough to argue with the Word.

Not only do I not argue with the Word, I quote it:

Then I said to them, "You see the trouble we are in: Jerusalem lies in ruins, and its gates have been burned with fire. Come, let us rebuild the wall of Jerusalem, and we will no longer be in disgrace."

Typical. A right wing "Christian" running to the OLD testament for a justification to ignore Jesus. Remember Him? The guy that said don't be a selfish wrathful greedy asshole?

You mean the guy that said this??
For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged:
and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

The one that died for this right wing Christian that you attack? Apparently you use Him only when it suits your purpose.

You would do well to give His judgement robe back and figure out how to have a debate without making it personal...

 

[whitehall]

It might be an example of religious freedom but how the hell is it a "win"?

 

[Vandalshandle]

Matthew 25:35-40 New International Version (NIV)
35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’

37 “Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’

40 “The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’

And yet God, in His infinite wisdom told the Jews to build a wall! God, unlike our liberals, had no problem identifying the enemy...

So, illegals who cross the border without papers, a misdemeanor, makes them equivalent to God's enemy? Glad I don't go to your church, Ram.

 

[Vandalshandle]

Judge's Ruling Shows Religious Freedom Isn’t Just For The Christian Right

For Scott Warren, a 37-year-old geography teacher from Ajo, Arizona, freedom of religion means making sure migrants crossing a treacherous stretch of desert along the U.S.-Mexico border don’t die of dehydration.

What do you all think, does this fall under Religious Liberty?

I'm confused on how this is a religious freedom issue.

First:
You can't just "make up" that something is a matter of religious freedom randomly.

Especially as a Christian, which is an established 2,000 year old doctrine, you can determine pretty quickly if something is a matter of religious freedom or not. Where in the Bible does it say, or in what church doctrine, has any group written down that a Christian must find migrant in the desert, and help them avoid dehydration?

Where is that? It's nowhere. There is no such Bible verse anywhere.

Second:
What is even more ironic, the group this guy belongs to is Unitarian Universalist, which is basically the "church of nothing". It's like religion for Atheists.

How can a Church that has no creeds... and you go look up yourself that Unitarian Universalist push no creeds at all.... how can a "no creed" church, have "Go help migrants in the desert" be a matter of religious freedom?

They openly state they have no creeds, yet you have to do this, or it's a violation of their faith? Do you not see an issue here?

So on that level, this is ridiculous.

Third:
Even if you had a religion where going and helping migrants in the desert was a religious creed.... how can that even work? What happens to all the people that don't live near a desert? Are they kicked out of the religion? What happens if migration stops? Does the religious group this guy belongs to, disband?

So again, this is a little ridiculous.

But here is my real issue....

This guy is killing people. People are dying, because of this guy. I'm not even concerned about the fact these people are illegally entering, and the all that crap about helping someone who is violating the law. That debate might work with some, but truth is if a person came to my house in serious trouble, I would help them without a second thought. I would bring them into my house, and do whatever I could to help them.

That is not a problem.

The problem is, his actions are directly leading to people dying. This man is encouraging highly risky and dangerous behavior. If he wants to sponsor a migrant to come to the US, go for it. If he wants to support a shelter for people at the border, be my guest.

But to go out into the desert, and leave food and water.... that is going to encourage more people to make the trek out into the desert where they are going to die. They are going to see this story, and believe that it is safe to cross the desert, and the first guy that walks out there drinks the water, and eats the food, and the next 20 end up corpse in the desert sand.

This guy is killing people. That's my problem. If you give a crap about these people, he would be better spending his money sending pamphlets to Mexico warning of the dangers of trying to cross the desert on foot, rather than dropping a jar of water, patting himself on the back, and cause dozens of deaths.

This by the way, is the problem with all left-wing ideology. You pretend you are doing good for people, while causing everyone to suffer. Insert, Venezuela.

Andy, your compassion for the illegals dying in the desert, because some guy leaves them water, really moves me in your sincerity….

Well.... do you want more people dying, or less?

This is like California handing out free needles, which has resulted in mass increase in drug use and more illness and diseases.

The solution is to hinder and discourage risky behavior. Not encourage it.

The same is true in all areas of life. If you have an alcoholic or gambling brother-in-law, and he comes to you saying he blew this months rent....... Do you pay his rent? Or do you direct him to the nearest addiction center?

If you pay his rent, then he'll continue and get worse at his addition, until he destroys his life.

The solution is to direct him to the addition center. Let him face the consequences of his actions, and then he'll hopefully learn from his mistakes and choose not to do it.

And not only him, but other people seeing what happens to him will serve to teach them. If they see him drinking and partying, and you pay all his bills, other people will do the same.

If they see him getting kicked out of his apartment, and then end up in a addiction recovery center, they will learn that is a bad plan.

In all cases.... rewarding dangerous and risky behavior is a terrible terrible option that dooms more people to hurt and pain and suffering. And by the way, is the default ideological view of all left-wingers, and the result of their views is always pain and suffering for everyone.

There is an evangelical shelter operating, I believe in Texas right now, and they will help anyone that comes to the shelter, who is immigrating across the border. They do not at all, go find people in the desert, specifically for this reason. They don't want to encourage people to take an extremely dangerous trek through the desert. They want them to come across the border at a port of entry, and they will gladly serve food, give shelter, and provide family services, and even teach basic English classes to those who want it.

What you guys do.... kills people. Period.

What we do, helps people. End of story.

...and a very amusing story, too!

 

[Andylusion]

can you find a passage from a religious text that tells you to do that?

Don't need to, according to your own words:

That they view the verse differently than you do does not make them wrong and you right. You cannot honestly argue they are not following the passage.
The organization that is the UU has no specifics creeds, but the individual members of the organization do. And that is what matters.​

According to your own statements, it doesn't have to say anything. They can just "view the verse differently" and "no creeds, but individuals of the org do". So that's all they need. It's their religious freedom, and you, by the standard you yourself set, need to respect that.

True, I did say that. But you said it has to say it specifically, so I think it is only right that you abide by your own standards. You cannot have it both ways.

Ridiculous. If unwholesome talk was in the eye of the beholder, then G-d and the apostles would never have put that verse in the Bible to begin with, because it would be pointless. Everyone would just say "not unwholesome in my view!".

Not at all. Unwholesome words, or what are viewed as unwholesome words change over time. Words that are unwholesome today are not the same as words that were unwholesome 100 years ago.

I am abiding by my own standard. You are the one contradicting yourself, not me. Not sure how you confused yourself on this.

Not at all. Unwholesome words, or what are viewed as unwholesome words change over time. Words that are unwholesome today are not the same as words that were unwholesome 100 years ago.

That is not what you said before.

You said "Unwholesome talk is in the eye of the beholder."

That is not the same as saying "Unwholesome words, or what are viewed as unwholesome words change over time."

If you are simply saying what is consider polite conversation has changed, that is perfectly fine, I agree, and you are failing to abide by what is considered wholesome talk in this society. You need to stop being crude, and start talking as a polite human being in civilized society.

Unwholesome talk in the eye of the beholder, means it is up to the individual what is polite. That is wrong. The Bible would not say that, if that is what they meant, because there would be no point.

Now if you are not a Christian, that's fine, but spare me your views on what a G-d you don't believe in says.

On the other hand, if you are Christian, then first start practicing what you preach, before you preach it. You know good and well what the Bible means when it says you should have corrupt speaking, and you are not following it.

 

[Andylusion]

Judge's Ruling Shows Religious Freedom Isn’t Just For The Christian Right

For Scott Warren, a 37-year-old geography teacher from Ajo, Arizona, freedom of religion means making sure migrants crossing a treacherous stretch of desert along the U.S.-Mexico border don’t die of dehydration.

What do you all think, does this fall under Religious Liberty?

I'm confused on how this is a religious freedom issue.

First:
You can't just "make up" that something is a matter of religious freedom randomly.

Especially as a Christian, which is an established 2,000 year old doctrine, you can determine pretty quickly if something is a matter of religious freedom or not. Where in the Bible does it say, or in what church doctrine, has any group written down that a Christian must find migrant in the desert, and help them avoid dehydration?

Where is that? It's nowhere. There is no such Bible verse anywhere.

Second:
What is even more ironic, the group this guy belongs to is Unitarian Universalist, which is basically the "church of nothing". It's like religion for Atheists.

How can a Church that has no creeds... and you go look up yourself that Unitarian Universalist push no creeds at all.... how can a "no creed" church, have "Go help migrants in the desert" be a matter of religious freedom?

They openly state they have no creeds, yet you have to do this, or it's a violation of their faith? Do you not see an issue here?

So on that level, this is ridiculous.

Third:
Even if you had a religion where going and helping migrants in the desert was a religious creed.... how can that even work? What happens to all the people that don't live near a desert? Are they kicked out of the religion? What happens if migration stops? Does the religious group this guy belongs to, disband?

So again, this is a little ridiculous.

But here is my real issue....

This guy is killing people. People are dying, because of this guy. I'm not even concerned about the fact these people are illegally entering, and the all that crap about helping someone who is violating the law. That debate might work with some, but truth is if a person came to my house in serious trouble, I would help them without a second thought. I would bring them into my house, and do whatever I could to help them.

That is not a problem.

The problem is, his actions are directly leading to people dying. This man is encouraging highly risky and dangerous behavior. If he wants to sponsor a migrant to come to the US, go for it. If he wants to support a shelter for people at the border, be my guest.

But to go out into the desert, and leave food and water.... that is going to encourage more people to make the trek out into the desert where they are going to die. They are going to see this story, and believe that it is safe to cross the desert, and the first guy that walks out there drinks the water, and eats the food, and the next 20 end up corpse in the desert sand.

This guy is killing people. That's my problem. If you give a crap about these people, he would be better spending his money sending pamphlets to Mexico warning of the dangers of trying to cross the desert on foot, rather than dropping a jar of water, patting himself on the back, and cause dozens of deaths.

This by the way, is the problem with all left-wing ideology. You pretend you are doing good for people, while causing everyone to suffer. Insert, Venezuela.

Andy, your compassion for the illegals dying in the desert, because some guy leaves them water, really moves me in your sincerity….

Well.... do you want more people dying, or less?

This is like California handing out free needles, which has resulted in mass increase in drug use and more illness and diseases.

The solution is to hinder and discourage risky behavior. Not encourage it.

The same is true in all areas of life. If you have an alcoholic or gambling brother-in-law, and he comes to you saying he blew this months rent....... Do you pay his rent? Or do you direct him to the nearest addiction center?

If you pay his rent, then he'll continue and get worse at his addition, until he destroys his life.

The solution is to direct him to the addition center. Let him face the consequences of his actions, and then he'll hopefully learn from his mistakes and choose not to do it.

And not only him, but other people seeing what happens to him will serve to teach them. If they see him drinking and partying, and you pay all his bills, other people will do the same.

If they see him getting kicked out of his apartment, and then end up in a addiction recovery center, they will learn that is a bad plan.

In all cases.... rewarding dangerous and risky behavior is a terrible terrible option that dooms more people to hurt and pain and suffering. And by the way, is the default ideological view of all left-wingers, and the result of their views is always pain and suffering for everyone.

There is an evangelical shelter operating, I believe in Texas right now, and they will help anyone that comes to the shelter, who is immigrating across the border. They do not at all, go find people in the desert, specifically for this reason. They don't want to encourage people to take an extremely dangerous trek through the desert. They want them to come across the border at a port of entry, and they will gladly serve food, give shelter, and provide family services, and even teach basic English classes to those who want it.

What you guys do.... kills people. Period.

What we do, helps people. End of story.

...and a very amusing story, too!

And 100% true, as well!

 

[Andylusion]

Matthew 25:35-40 New International Version (NIV)
35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’

37 “Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’

40 “The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’

And yet God, in His infinite wisdom told the Jews to build a wall! God, unlike our liberals, had no problem identifying the enemy...

So, illegals who cross the border without papers, a misdemeanor, makes them equivalent to God's enemy? Glad I don't go to your church, Ram.

Well... somewhat, yes. You know the law.... you know you are not supposed to break the law....

What does the bible say about lawlessness?

What Does the Bible Say About Lawlessness?

I don't see much there that is good.

Again, I have no problem with people coming to the US legally..... but illegally.... yeah, that's not something G-d is in favor of.

 

[Vandalshandle]

Judge's Ruling Shows Religious Freedom Isn’t Just For The Christian Right

For Scott Warren, a 37-year-old geography teacher from Ajo, Arizona, freedom of religion means making sure migrants crossing a treacherous stretch of desert along the U.S.-Mexico border don’t die of dehydration.

What do you all think, does this fall under Religious Liberty?

I'm confused on how this is a religious freedom issue.

First:
You can't just "make up" that something is a matter of religious freedom randomly.

Especially as a Christian, which is an established 2,000 year old doctrine, you can determine pretty quickly if something is a matter of religious freedom or not. Where in the Bible does it say, or in what church doctrine, has any group written down that a Christian must find migrant in the desert, and help them avoid dehydration?

Where is that? It's nowhere. There is no such Bible verse anywhere.

Second:
What is even more ironic, the group this guy belongs to is Unitarian Universalist, which is basically the "church of nothing". It's like religion for Atheists.

How can a Church that has no creeds... and you go look up yourself that Unitarian Universalist push no creeds at all.... how can a "no creed" church, have "Go help migrants in the desert" be a matter of religious freedom?

They openly state they have no creeds, yet you have to do this, or it's a violation of their faith? Do you not see an issue here?

So on that level, this is ridiculous.

Third:
Even if you had a religion where going and helping migrants in the desert was a religious creed.... how can that even work? What happens to all the people that don't live near a desert? Are they kicked out of the religion? What happens if migration stops? Does the religious group this guy belongs to, disband?

So again, this is a little ridiculous.

But here is my real issue....

This guy is killing people. People are dying, because of this guy. I'm not even concerned about the fact these people are illegally entering, and the all that crap about helping someone who is violating the law. That debate might work with some, but truth is if a person came to my house in serious trouble, I would help them without a second thought. I would bring them into my house, and do whatever I could to help them.

That is not a problem.

The problem is, his actions are directly leading to people dying. This man is encouraging highly risky and dangerous behavior. If he wants to sponsor a migrant to come to the US, go for it. If he wants to support a shelter for people at the border, be my guest.

But to go out into the desert, and leave food and water.... that is going to encourage more people to make the trek out into the desert where they are going to die. They are going to see this story, and believe that it is safe to cross the desert, and the first guy that walks out there drinks the water, and eats the food, and the next 20 end up corpse in the desert sand.

This guy is killing people. That's my problem. If you give a crap about these people, he would be better spending his money sending pamphlets to Mexico warning of the dangers of trying to cross the desert on foot, rather than dropping a jar of water, patting himself on the back, and cause dozens of deaths.

This by the way, is the problem with all left-wing ideology. You pretend you are doing good for people, while causing everyone to suffer. Insert, Venezuela.

Andy, your compassion for the illegals dying in the desert, because some guy leaves them water, really moves me in your sincerity….

Well.... do you want more people dying, or less?

This is like California handing out free needles, which has resulted in mass increase in drug use and more illness and diseases.

The solution is to hinder and discourage risky behavior. Not encourage it.

The same is true in all areas of life. If you have an alcoholic or gambling brother-in-law, and he comes to you saying he blew this months rent....... Do you pay his rent? Or do you direct him to the nearest addiction center?

If you pay his rent, then he'll continue and get worse at his addition, until he destroys his life.

The solution is to direct him to the addition center. Let him face the consequences of his actions, and then he'll hopefully learn from his mistakes and choose not to do it.

And not only him, but other people seeing what happens to him will serve to teach them. If they see him drinking and partying, and you pay all his bills, other people will do the same.

If they see him getting kicked out of his apartment, and then end up in a addiction recovery center, they will learn that is a bad plan.

In all cases.... rewarding dangerous and risky behavior is a terrible terrible option that dooms more people to hurt and pain and suffering. And by the way, is the default ideological view of all left-wingers, and the result of their views is always pain and suffering for everyone.

There is an evangelical shelter operating, I believe in Texas right now, and they will help anyone that comes to the shelter, who is immigrating across the border. They do not at all, go find people in the desert, specifically for this reason. They don't want to encourage people to take an extremely dangerous trek through the desert. They want them to come across the border at a port of entry, and they will gladly serve food, give shelter, and provide family services, and even teach basic English classes to those who want it.

What you guys do.... kills people. Period.

What we do, helps people. End of story.

...and a very amusing story, too!

And 100% true, as well!

Yes, and feeding the hungry encourages them to stay on welfare!

 

[Vandalshandle]

Matthew 25:35-40 New International Version (NIV)
35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’

37 “Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’

40 “The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’

And yet God, in His infinite wisdom told the Jews to build a wall! God, unlike our liberals, had no problem identifying the enemy...

So, illegals who cross the border without papers, a misdemeanor, makes them equivalent to God's enemy? Glad I don't go to your church, Ram.

Well... somewhat, yes. You know the law.... you know you are not supposed to break the law....

What does the bible say about lawlessness?

What Does the Bible Say About Lawlessness?

I don't see much there that is good.

Again, I have no problem with people coming to the US legally..... but illegally.... yeah, that's not something G-d is in favor of.

Well, I guess that I am going to hell, too, because I, too, committed a misdemeanor. I got a speeding ticket for 15 MPH over the speed limit. God, have mercy on me!

 

[Andylusion]

I'm confused on how this is a religious freedom issue.

First:
You can't just "make up" that something is a matter of religious freedom randomly.

Especially as a Christian, which is an established 2,000 year old doctrine, you can determine pretty quickly if something is a matter of religious freedom or not. Where in the Bible does it say, or in what church doctrine, has any group written down that a Christian must find migrant in the desert, and help them avoid dehydration?

Where is that? It's nowhere. There is no such Bible verse anywhere.

Second:
What is even more ironic, the group this guy belongs to is Unitarian Universalist, which is basically the "church of nothing". It's like religion for Atheists.

How can a Church that has no creeds... and you go look up yourself that Unitarian Universalist push no creeds at all.... how can a "no creed" church, have "Go help migrants in the desert" be a matter of religious freedom?

They openly state they have no creeds, yet you have to do this, or it's a violation of their faith? Do you not see an issue here?

So on that level, this is ridiculous.

Third:
Even if you had a religion where going and helping migrants in the desert was a religious creed.... how can that even work? What happens to all the people that don't live near a desert? Are they kicked out of the religion? What happens if migration stops? Does the religious group this guy belongs to, disband?

So again, this is a little ridiculous.

But here is my real issue....

This guy is killing people. People are dying, because of this guy. I'm not even concerned about the fact these people are illegally entering, and the all that crap about helping someone who is violating the law. That debate might work with some, but truth is if a person came to my house in serious trouble, I would help them without a second thought. I would bring them into my house, and do whatever I could to help them.

That is not a problem.

The problem is, his actions are directly leading to people dying. This man is encouraging highly risky and dangerous behavior. If he wants to sponsor a migrant to come to the US, go for it. If he wants to support a shelter for people at the border, be my guest.

But to go out into the desert, and leave food and water.... that is going to encourage more people to make the trek out into the desert where they are going to die. They are going to see this story, and believe that it is safe to cross the desert, and the first guy that walks out there drinks the water, and eats the food, and the next 20 end up corpse in the desert sand.

This guy is killing people. That's my problem. If you give a crap about these people, he would be better spending his money sending pamphlets to Mexico warning of the dangers of trying to cross the desert on foot, rather than dropping a jar of water, patting himself on the back, and cause dozens of deaths.

This by the way, is the problem with all left-wing ideology. You pretend you are doing good for people, while causing everyone to suffer. Insert, Venezuela.

Andy, your compassion for the illegals dying in the desert, because some guy leaves them water, really moves me in your sincerity….

Well.... do you want more people dying, or less?

This is like California handing out free needles, which has resulted in mass increase in drug use and more illness and diseases.

The solution is to hinder and discourage risky behavior. Not encourage it.

The same is true in all areas of life. If you have an alcoholic or gambling brother-in-law, and he comes to you saying he blew this months rent....... Do you pay his rent? Or do you direct him to the nearest addiction center?

If you pay his rent, then he'll continue and get worse at his addition, until he destroys his life.

The solution is to direct him to the addition center. Let him face the consequences of his actions, and then he'll hopefully learn from his mistakes and choose not to do it.

And not only him, but other people seeing what happens to him will serve to teach them. If they see him drinking and partying, and you pay all his bills, other people will do the same.

If they see him getting kicked out of his apartment, and then end up in a addiction recovery center, they will learn that is a bad plan.

In all cases.... rewarding dangerous and risky behavior is a terrible terrible option that dooms more people to hurt and pain and suffering. And by the way, is the default ideological view of all left-wingers, and the result of their views is always pain and suffering for everyone.

There is an evangelical shelter operating, I believe in Texas right now, and they will help anyone that comes to the shelter, who is immigrating across the border. They do not at all, go find people in the desert, specifically for this reason. They don't want to encourage people to take an extremely dangerous trek through the desert. They want them to come across the border at a port of entry, and they will gladly serve food, give shelter, and provide family services, and even teach basic English classes to those who want it.

What you guys do.... kills people. Period.

What we do, helps people. End of story.

...and a very amusing story, too!

And 100% true, as well!

Yes, and feeding the hungry encourages them to stay on welfare!

Not really. Giving them free food from government does, yes. But actual real charity does not generally.

Feeding the hungry, doesn't mean letting them live off you, and most Christian charities operate on that idea.

For example, when I worked at the homeless shelter down town, the vast majority of people that stayed there, generally were out in a month.

In fact, one of the duties that I was part of, was creating move-in boxes. This was a large box of common items for moving into a apartment. We have family, and individual boxes. They would contain a set of plates, cups, silverware, bathroom items, soap, shampoo, towels, tooth paste, toothbrushes, toilet paper, even some small pillows and some bed sheets, and usually a 3 pack of light bulbs.

We made hundreds of those boxes.

When people came and stayed there, and fed there, and so on... part of real charity is not just doing that, but also helping people back on their feet.

Another example, is the convict shelter, again run by an evangelical mission. You can stay there, free room, free food, free everything. But... you have to get a job. Any job. Must work 40 hours a week, and they had work placement programs for all convicts. Again, no rent payment, nothing.

Also you must take a class. Any class. A class on typing. A class on pipe-fitting. A class on reading and writing if you need it. But you have to take a class.

All the food you can eat, no cost on a room, no other requirements. And these convicts would graduate from classes, and work full time jobs, and eventually they would move out.

Again... you are helping people to succeed in life. Not helping them stay in their miserable condition for life.

And this is where the Bible is very clear.... 2 Thess 3:10

For even when we were with you, we gave you this rule: "The one who is unwilling to work shall not eat."
​

So when a person shows up wanting food... yes you feed them. And you help them as best you can. But when you find out that they simply don't want to work, then you cut them off.

All those charities, have that as a rule. The homeless shelter, if the same guy in there for a month, has made no effort to enroll in a training program, has made no effort to get a job, then the shelter manager will sit the guy down, explain how this works, and if he still refuses to do anything... they kick him out.

Not going to feed some perfectly able bodied person who has no mental issues, simply because he wants to be lazy and live in his poverty on the backs of working people... not a chance. So they kick the guy out.

You don't work, you don't eat. And again, we are talking about able bodied people, who don't have mental issues.

But this is the exact opposite of left-wing ideology, where AOC wants a living wage so people can be professional useless people, who sit at home being lazy on the backs of working people. This is the exact opposite of the Bernie, everyone is entitled to help, no matter how irresponsible they are.

Left-wing ideology encourages the worst of human behavior with rewards.

 

[EvilCat Breath]

The Bible says that a man who rape a woman must take her in marriage. Today we are horrified at such a judgement. Rape is a crime. Invading this nation is a crime. Stealing someone's identity is a crime. We don't legalize crime after the fact.

 

[EvilCat Breath]

Religious liberty is used to justify discrimination.
It is used to justify refusing service (medical, pharmacy) to those in need.
But can’t be used for SAVING LIVES?

That is some seriously warped religious values.

Those in peril put themselves in peril by a desire to break the law. They can get out of peril by going home.

 

[Andylusion]

Matthew 25:35-40 New International Version (NIV)
35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’

37 “Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’

40 “The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’

And yet God, in His infinite wisdom told the Jews to build a wall! God, unlike our liberals, had no problem identifying the enemy...

So, illegals who cross the border without papers, a misdemeanor, makes them equivalent to God's enemy? Glad I don't go to your church, Ram.

Well... somewhat, yes. You know the law.... you know you are not supposed to break the law....

What does the bible say about lawlessness?

What Does the Bible Say About Lawlessness?

I don't see much there that is good.

Again, I have no problem with people coming to the US legally..... but illegally.... yeah, that's not something G-d is in favor of.

Well, I guess that I am going to hell, too, because I, too, committed a misdemeanor. I got a speeding ticket for 15 MPH over the speed limit. God, have mercy on me!

That's why I set my cruise control. I got exactly 65 in the 65 zone. People pass me on both sides, and I just smile.

Even then however, there is a huge difference between you accidentally speeding, and people who are knowingly, intentionally, choosing to violate the law.

Most people who are caught speeding, are just not paying attention. (again that's why I set the cruise. I am real bad at just looking down and going CRUD! I'm going to fast!).

But illegals are not just randomly wandering around, and accidentily crossing a desert and entering the country illegally.

It's not like they walk out of the desert in Tucson, and say "Wait! This isn't Hermosillo!!".

They know exactly what they are doing. That's why they are in the desert.

Even so.... lets even say that. G-d is all about repentance. You repent of speeding.... by not speeding anymore. For me, that's setting the cruise control.

For illegally entering the US, that's going back to Mexico, or where ever, and staying their or trying to enter legally.

Then you are not an enemy of G-d.

 

[Coyote]

Religious liberty is used to justify discrimination.
It is used to justify refusing service (medical, pharmacy) to those in need.
But can’t be used for SAVING LIVES?

That is some seriously warped religious values.

Those in peril put themselves in peril by a desire to break the law. They can get out of peril by going home.

Said Jesus never.