AP: Half of U.S. pays no federal income tax

[saveliberty]

Children make the big difference.

I have children... my best friend has children.. my neighbor has children.. my brother has children.. my sister has children... and we all pay income taxes.... now my other brother is a pothead piece of scumbag shit who barely earns enough to get by, he does not pay income taxes and the sorry sack of shit leeches off the system... funny.. it's about the income, not the kids

You are wrong. The $1000 child tax credit, which OBVIOUSLY taxpayers without kids don't get, takes 1000 bucks per child (with rules and limitations) right off the top of parents' tax bill. You make what I make, you got a couple kids, you pay 2000 less in taxes than I do. Not to mention the many other child related tax reductions that you are entitled to.

It's an indisputable fact. I don't know why you're trying to dispute it.

Oh yes, I do, because people with children and getting massive tax breaks because of them look somewhat silly trying to argue that their taxes are too high.

You are grossly misinformed about the financial benefits of children. If you want, take a little informal survey. Pick up a can of formula and 48 count bag of diapers at the grocery store next time. Call a daycare center and find out what that runs a week. Find the cheapest four year college in your state. Call your insurane agent and ask what it costs to add a 16 year old to the policy.

 

[Misty]

Every argument on this thread speaks to the same solution

flat tax rate. Where everyone pays a flat tax no matter how rich or poor or how many kids you have.

 

[saveliberty]

Every argument on this thread speaks to the same solution

flat tax rate. Where everyone pays a flat tax no matter how rich or poor or how many kids you have.

With no credits of deductions.

 

[Misty]

The otherwise allowable child tax credit is phased out for taxpayers with modified adjusted gross income (defined below) above certain thresholds. The amount of the credit is reduced (but not below zero) by $50 for each $1,000 (or fraction thereof) by which the taxpayer's modified adjusted gross income exceeds the threshold amount. The threshold amount is:

$110,000 in the case of a joint return
$75,000 in the case of an unmarried individual
$55,000 in the case of a married individual filing a separate return"


2009, 2010 Child Tax Credit Amount & Calculator

 

[ProudFossil]

I am beginning to think the proposed VAT might be the way to go IF TWO THINGS OCCUR AT THE SAME TIME. Number one, dismantle the IRS and do away with the income tax. Secondly do not have so many damn exemptions to the VAT that it would be gutted.

Here are the reasons I would like to see the VAT. The main one is even those 50% of the population would now have to be paying their share of the federal revenue, not getting paid from it. Secondly, having been in England several times it is nice to walk up to the register with a price tag of $5.00 and not have to dole out $5.85.

And here is what I am afraid will happen. The IRS is "too big to fail" and so will not be done away with. The income tax will still be there in order to get enough money from us to pay that 50% what they are having to pay in the VAT. The VAT started at 10% in England and is now 17.5%. Here in the US it will start at 25% and go to 50% plus the income tax.

Welcome to the third world.

 

[FrankieGA]

Proud, Great point, that is exactly what the Tea Party is trying to get accomplished. Move to a flat tax rate in this country so it is truly a level playing field for everyone.

 

[Misty]

Taxes and fees imposed by federal, state or local laws.

Alternative Minimum Tax (AMT)
U.S. capital gains tax
Corporate income tax
U.S. estate tax
U.S. excise tax (includes taxes on cigarettes and alcoholic beverages)
U.S. federal income tax
Federal unemployment tax (FUTA)
FICA tax (includes Social Security tax and related programs)
Gasoline tax
Generation Skipping Tax
Gift tax
IRS penalties
Local income tax
Luxury taxes
Property tax
Real estate tax
Recreational vehicle tax
Rental car tax
Resort tax (also known as Hotel/Motel tax, occupancy tax)
Road usage taxes (Commercial Vehicle Operators)
Sales tax and equivalent use tax
School tax
State income tax
State unemployment tax (SUTA)
Tariffs
Telephone federal excise tax
Vehicle sales tax
Workers compensation tax

 

[DiamondDave]

Not to mention lower incomes, etc

Children make the big difference.

children can only be deducted if you make UNDER a certain amount. Once you reach the magic number, you can no longer deduct children.

And children cost money.

Bingo

I had no deduction this year... which is why I must talk with my ex on working out a deal for her to claim both

And what this guy does not seem to grasp is that it is not the child deduction that is the major cause... but the lower income... and the absurd fact that the current system has some at lower incomes not paying income taxes or having income tax liability

 

[PatekPhilippe]

Children make the big difference.

children can only be deducted if you make UNDER a certain amount. Once you reach the magic number, you can no longer deduct children.

And children cost money.

Bingo

I had no deduction this year... which is why I must talk with my ex on working out a deal for her to claim both

And what this guy does not seem to grasp is that it is not the child deduction that is the major cause... but the lower income... and the absurd fact that the current system has some at lower incomes not paying income taxes or having income tax liability

Same with me..I got no Obama child tax credit this year...no 1st time home buyer credit...none of that shit he's been selling...and I make LESS than $250k a year...am I upset? Of course not. I make a very good living and I don't have a problem with paying my fair share...but when you want to raise my fucking taxes to pay for someone else's irresponsibility then we have a problem.

Funny how the left wingers here are complaining about the IRS child exemptions written into law by their Democrat Senators and House members.

 

[PatekPhilippe]

Children make the big difference.

Funny how nycarbineer is bitching and complaining about Democrat sponsored laws that allowed the generous exemptions for kids. What's wrong? Impotent...sterile...chicken shit around women...40 year old virgin...closet gay?

See the first quote in my sig!

The child tax exemption was introduced in 1997 sponsored in the house by John Kasich REPUBLICAN and in the senate by Frank Murkowski REPUBLICAN.

Lie .... er .... er .... try again.

Who signed it into law you dumb motherfucker!!!!

 

[PatekPhilippe]

You are full of shit. And earn a neg rep for lying about me.

You are full of shit...AND...a stupid fuck for not having any write-offs...I have reciprocated with neg rep because you have earned it.

First- Almost 60% of all tax payers filing their income taxes, USE THE SHORT FORM.....they get to take NO itemized DEDUCTIONS....so those of you that can take advantage of the various credits and deductions allowed, you are in the minority.....

Second- Matthew and I file short form, no itemized deductions because we OWN our home outright, there is no mortgage interest to deduct....now you tell me, who is REALLY in better financial straits? the person who gets to deduct a couple of thousand a month to the bank in interest payments for their mortgage from their earned income, or the person who has no mortgage at all and owns their home, and gets to keep all of their income?

I guess it is in the eye of the beholder on that one!

Did you ever think about taking out a 2nd then putting that money into a high yield money market fund AND getting a nice mortgage interest deduction to lower your tax burden?

 

[Foxfyre]

I am beginning to think the proposed VAT might be the way to go IF TWO THINGS OCCUR AT THE SAME TIME. Number one, dismantle the IRS and do away with the income tax. Secondly do not have so many damn exemptions to the VAT that it would be gutted.

Here are the reasons I would like to see the VAT. The main one is even those 50% of the population would now have to be paying their share of the federal revenue, not getting paid from it. Secondly, having been in England several times it is nice to walk up to the register with a price tag of $5.00 and not have to dole out $5.85.

And here is what I am afraid will happen. The IRS is "too big to fail" and so will not be done away with. The income tax will still be there in order to get enough money from us to pay that 50% what they are having to pay in the VAT. The VAT started at 10% in England and is now 17.5%. Here in the US it will start at 25% and go to 50% plus the income tax.

Welcome to the third world.

First, welcome to USMB PF.

What I'm afraid will happen is that our current messiah-in-chief, aided and abetted by the most irresponsible Congress in history, intends to add a VAT on top of all the taxes we are already paying.

My main concern with replacing the existing income tax code with a VAT, however, is that it will be so difficult for us to track and it will be so easy to increase it incrementally while applying it to more and more steps of the process.

The only redeeming factor of our current income tax system is that it is pretty transparent. Despite the massiveness and incomprehensibility of the tax code, we can sort of see the percentages each bracket pays and who is and isn't getting the breaks. (That is not a justification for keeping it however.)

But a VAT would be essentially invisible to us and therefore very easy for the unscrupulous in leadership to manipulate.

 

[Foxfyre]

Taxes and fees imposed by federal, state or local laws.

Alternative Minimum Tax (AMT)
U.S. capital gains tax
Corporate income tax
U.S. estate tax
U.S. excise tax (includes taxes on cigarettes and alcoholic beverages)
U.S. federal income tax
Federal unemployment tax (FUTA)
FICA tax (includes Social Security tax and related programs)
Gasoline tax
Generation Skipping Tax
Gift tax
IRS penalties
Local income tax
Luxury taxes
Property tax
Real estate tax
Recreational vehicle tax
Rental car tax
Resort tax (also known as Hotel/Motel tax, occupancy tax)
Road usage taxes (Commercial Vehicle Operators)
Sales tax and equivalent use tax
School tax
State income tax
State unemployment tax (SUTA)
Tariffs
Telephone federal excise tax
Vehicle sales tax
Workers compensation tax

Add to this self employment tax for all the independent contractors and sole proprietors out there, and believe me, after just filing our taxes for us and our small business, that self employment tax is HUGE and is applied to ALL profit, however small, made by a small business even if a tiny profit is the only income that person earns all year.

 

[PatekPhilippe]

Taxes and fees imposed by federal, state or local laws.

Alternative Minimum Tax (AMT)
U.S. capital gains tax
Corporate income tax
U.S. estate tax
U.S. excise tax (includes taxes on cigarettes and alcoholic beverages)
U.S. federal income tax
Federal unemployment tax (FUTA)
FICA tax (includes Social Security tax and related programs)
Gasoline tax
Generation Skipping Tax
Gift tax
IRS penalties
Local income tax
Luxury taxes
Property tax
Real estate tax
Recreational vehicle tax
Rental car tax
Resort tax (also known as Hotel/Motel tax, occupancy tax)
Road usage taxes (Commercial Vehicle Operators)
Sales tax and equivalent use tax
School tax
State income tax
State unemployment tax (SUTA)
Tariffs
Telephone federal excise tax
Vehicle sales tax
Workers compensation tax

Add to this self employment tax for all the independent contractors and sole proprietors out there, and believe me, after just filing our taxes for us and our small business, that self employment tax is HUGE.

This is correct. Small business owners have taken a MASSIVE beating this year on their taxes.

 

[boedicca]

But a VAT would be essentially invisible to us and therefore very easy for the unscrupulous in leadership to manipulate.

VAT is the motherlode of political deal making and petty bureaucrat power trips. Very similar can be treated quite differently. It's just replacing one byzantine, complex code for another.

It would be better to go to a simple, flat income tax. Less opportunity for politicians to rig the system.

 

[Jarhead]

Taxes and fees imposed by federal, state or local laws.

Alternative Minimum Tax (AMT)
U.S. capital gains tax
Corporate income tax
U.S. estate tax
U.S. excise tax (includes taxes on cigarettes and alcoholic beverages)
U.S. federal income tax
Federal unemployment tax (FUTA)
FICA tax (includes Social Security tax and related programs)
Gasoline tax
Generation Skipping Tax
Gift tax
IRS penalties
Local income tax
Luxury taxes
Property tax
Real estate tax
Recreational vehicle tax
Rental car tax
Resort tax (also known as Hotel/Motel tax, occupancy tax)
Road usage taxes (Commercial Vehicle Operators)
Sales tax and equivalent use tax
School tax
State income tax
State unemployment tax (SUTA)
Tariffs
Telephone federal excise tax
Vehicle sales tax
Workers compensation tax

Add to this self employment tax for all the independent contractors and sole proprietors out there, and believe me, after just filing our taxes for us and our small business, that self employment tax is HUGE.

This is correct. Small business owners have taken a MASSIVE beating this year on their taxes.

This is true. My business (s-corp) had a lower net profit this year over last but my personal tax liability for the year was 14K more for tax year 2009 than 2008(including state).

Got no stimulus money and have nothing ahead in the forecast giving me reason to consider hiring.

My competition, however are all doing just as poorly except for one, who received millions in stimulus money. He is winning nearly every bid.

 

[PatekPhilippe]

Add to this self employment tax for all the independent contractors and sole proprietors out there, and believe me, after just filing our taxes for us and our small business, that self employment tax is HUGE.

This is correct. Small business owners have taken a MASSIVE beating this year on their taxes.

This is true. My business (s-corp) had a lower net profit this year over last but my personal tax liability for the year was 14K more for tax year 2009 than 2008(including state).

Got no stimulus money and have nothing ahead in the forecast giving me reason to consider hiring.

My competition, however are all doing just as poorly except for one, who received millions in stimulus money. He is winning nearly every bid.

Thanks Jarhead...hope things pick up for you this year. I witnessed the small business dilemma firsthand in the H&R Block offices when I was getting my taxes done.

 

[Jarhead]

This is correct. Small business owners have taken a MASSIVE beating this year on their taxes.

This is true. My business (s-corp) had a lower net profit this year over last but my personal tax liability for the year was 14K more for tax year 2009 than 2008(including state).

Got no stimulus money and have nothing ahead in the forecast giving me reason to consider hiring.

My competition, however are all doing just as poorly except for one, who received millions in stimulus money. He is winning nearly every bid.

Thanks Jarhead...hope things pick up for you this year. I witnessed the small business dilemma firsthand in the H&R Block offices when I was getting my taxes done.

Hey, thanks. Have not taken a dime of distributions yet this year; and that is helping me keep cash flow level. No layoffs scheduled, but I feel for my employees as their future is so unceretain. Some have been with me since the day I opened.

But hey, at least they have an income for now. I dont.

But I am one of those greedy evil business owners, so who the hell cares about my lack of income. I DESERVE IT!

 

[Foxfyre]

But a VAT would be essentially invisible to us and therefore very easy for the unscrupulous in leadership to manipulate.

VAT is the motherlode of political deal making and petty bureaucrat power trips. Very similar can be treated quite differently. It's just replacing one byzantine, complex code for another.

It would be better to go to a simple, flat income tax. Less opportunity for politicians to rig the system.

Yes. After looking at all the arguments and rationale, I am convinced that the flat income tax with the rate applied uniformly across the board and everybody paying it is the fairnest and easiest and most transparent way to go and is the safest for individual liberties.

 

[PatekPhilippe]

But a VAT would be essentially invisible to us and therefore very easy for the unscrupulous in leadership to manipulate.

VAT is the motherlode of political deal making and petty bureaucrat power trips. Very similar can be treated quite differently. It's just replacing one byzantine, complex code for another.

It would be better to go to a simple, flat income tax. Less opportunity for politicians to rig the system.

Yes. After looking at all the arguments and rationale, I am convinced that the flat income tax with the rate applied uniformly across the board and everybody paying it is the fairnest and easiest and most transparent way to go and is the safest for individual liberties.

I agree with you...but you have to look at the system we have now and realize that our politicians use the disparity in the tax code to divide the electorate into many groups to be wooed with special incentives for their vote. If we had only one single group...all paying the same amount...we would put 10,000 lobbyists out of work and cut the size of the IRS by 75%...can't have that now can we?