Are Children A Part Of The Gay Marriage Conversation?

[elektra]

Pure bullshit. Wiv

So you've got nothing. Well, I should have guessed. Since you have nothing of substance to say, this discussion is over.

It was never a conversation, I am simply pointing out your misunderstanding and ignorance.

You think that historically marriage was the equivalent of slavery,

you have taken this thread so far from the op the only thing left is to point towards your post, and state the fact....

bullshit

 

[Pop23]

You really are dense.

If it's for birth control you had better be able to produce the name of a single child born by a lesbian coupling.

Do you not understand the meaning of birth control?

Let me help ya

It's used to stop a female from getting pregnant FROM INTERCOURSE.

Do you deny that women take birth control pills to control their periods? Or maybe that is too hard for you to understand. Do women take birth control pills to control their periods?

I've never denied that women will take the pill to control their periods, or that they take the pill to control acne. But lesbians that take the pill for birth control MUST NOT BE LESBIANS.

Do you even understand what you are doing to yourself?

Have any idea where babies come from?

Here's a clue.

Two women having sex cannot make each other pregnant. Neither has sperm. SO NO BIRTH CONTROL IS EVER REQUIRED.

Jesus Man, save yourself from looking the board idiot.

 

[Pop23]

Pure bullshit. Wiv

So you've got nothing. Well, I should have guessed. Since you have nothing of substance to say, this discussion is over.

It was never a conversation, I am simply pointing out your misunderstanding and ignorance.

You think that historically marriage was the equivalent of slavery,

you have taken this thread so far from the op the only thing left is to point towards your post, and state the fact....

bullshit

You're arguing with someone who thinks lesbians take the pill to keep from getting pregnant from lesbian sex.

True Story

 

[Seawytch]

Rikurzhen, you posted "Why does society care that two people love each other? The legal and social benefits only kick in when kids are born." That's not correct. There are economic benefits to marriage for childless people in terms of employment benefits, social security, health care decision making ..... This was actually the basis for striking down DOMA, and there was no mention there of kids.

I apologize for not being clear. What I wrote was about how laws SHOULD be. Those economic benefits to marriage should not exist for couples without kids, for after all, marriage is about love. Society doesn't benefit when you love your spouse. Society benefits when you sacrifice and raise kids.

And gays, who can and do have children, get the goodies too, right?

Not if they're human rights violators. If they adopt a child, then yes. If they enter their marriage with a child from a failed normal marriage, then yes. But purposely creating a child in order to deprive the child of its human rights, no, that cannot be encouraged.

"Human Rights violators"? Are you for real? You're some sort of twisted performance art, right?

 

[Seawytch]

Sad, I think it is beyond belief that people refuse to allow children to have a voice, children who are to be adopted.

A decent society would guarantee a mom and dad to orphaned children.

It is simple, a child learns from a healthy, natural family. A child needs a man and woman to learn. Sure, many overcome single parent families, but nothing beats Christmas with parents and grandparents who have literally given birth to the family.

Homosexuals and the Activists will never know the truth, for they have chosen and live a life in which they never see the intricate dynamics lived between father, mother and the children.

If the American psychological association, psychiatric association, medical association and pediatricans agreed with you, I might as well.

You do not know what these people think. They all agree with me.
And again, if someone looks to a study to make decision about the proper development of children, it's obvious that person has not the knowledge or experience raising children to make such extreme decisions for children.

Let children speak, not researchers accredited by government.

Not a single major medical or psychological association agrees with you. The APA, AMA AAP, all agree that children do just fine in same sex households AND they ALL support adoption by gays.

Why, cause an activists says so, prove your contention. I knoe, you will use the liberal google search engine to link to a press release you mistake as science.

So go ahead, post your study or whatever. I will show the wholes in it.

Wow...more performance art...replete with really bad spelling. Here are the position statements of the organizations I mentioned. I don't know how you think you can show the holes in their positions on marriage equality, but give it a go.

American Academy of Child and Adolescent Psychiatry (1999)
"All decisions relating to custody and parental rights should rest on the interest of the child. There is no evidence to suggest or support that parents who are lesbian, gay, bisexual, or transgender are per se superior or inferior from or deficient in parenting skills, child-centered concerns, and parent-child attachments when compared with heterosexual parents. There is no credible evidence that shows that a parent's sexual orientation or gender identity will adversely affect the development of the child.

Lesbian, gay, bisexual, or transgender individuals historically have faced more rigorous scrutiny than heterosexual people regarding their rights to be or become parents. The American Academy of Child & Adolescent Psychiatry opposes any discrimination based on sexual orientation or gender identity against individuals in regard to their rights as custodial, foster, or adoptive parents."

American Academy of Family Physicians
RESOLVED, That the AAFP establish policy and be supportive of legislation which promotes a safe and nurturing environment, including psychological and legal security, for all children, including those of adoptive parents, regardless of the parents' sexual orientation."

American Academy of Pediatrics
"Children deserve to know that their relationships with both of their parents are stable and legally recognized. This applies to all children, whether their parents are of the same or opposite sex. The American Academy of Pediatrics recognizes that a considerable body of professional literature provides evidence that children with parents who are homosexual can have the same advantages and the same expectations for health, adjustment, and development as can children whose parents are heterosexual.1-9 When 2 adults participate in parenting a child, they and the child deserve the serenity that comes with legal recognition.

American Medical Association
“Whereas, Having two fully sanctioned and legally defined parents promotes a safe and nurturing environment for children, including psychological and legal security; and

"Whereas, Children born or adopted into families headed by partners who are of the same sex usually have only one biologic or adoptive legal parent; and

"Whereas, The legislative protection afforded to children of parents in homosexual relationships varies from state to state, with some states enacting or considering legislation sanctioning co-parent or second parent adoption by partners of the same sex, several states declining to consider legislation, and at least one state altogether banning adoption by the second parent; and

"Whereas, Co-parent or second parent adoption guarantees that the second parent’s custody rights and responsibilities are protected if the first parent dies or becomes incapacitated; and

"Whereas, Co-parent or second parent adoption ensures the child’s eligibility for health benefits from both parents and establishes the requirement for child support from both parents in the event of the parents’ separation; and

"Whereas, Co-parent or second parent adoption establishes legal grounds to provide consent for medical care and to make health care decisions on behalf of the child and guarantees visitation rights if the child becomes hospitalized; and

"Whereas, The American Academy of Pediatrics and the American Psychiatric Association have each issued statements supporting initiatives which allow same-sex couples to adopt and co-parent children; therefore be it

"RESOLVED, That our American Medical Association support legislative and other efforts to allow the adoption of a child by the same-sex partner, or opposite sex non-married partner, who functions as a second parent or co-parent to that child.

American Psychiatric Association (1997 and 2002)
The American Psychiatric Association supports initiatives that allow same-sex couples to adopt and co-parent children and supports all the associated legal rights, benefits, and responsibilities which arise from such initiatives.

The American Psychiatric Association adopted the following position statement at its December 1997 meeting:

1. Sexual orientation should not be used as the sole or primary factor in child custody decisions.

2. Gay and lesbian couples and individuals should be allowed to become parents through adoption, fostering and new reproductive technologies, subject to the same type of screening used with heterosexual couples and individuals.

3. Second-parent adoptions which grant full parental rights to a second, unrelated adult (usually an unmarried partner of a legal parent), are often in the best interest of the child(ren) and should not be prohibited solely because both adults are of the same gender.

4. Custody determinations after dissolution of a gay relationship should be done in a manner similar to other custody determinations.

American Psychological Association
“WHEREAS APA has a long-established policy to deplore ‘all public and private discrimination against gay men and lesbians’ and urges ‘the repeal of all discriminatory legislation against lesbians and gay men’ (Conger, 1975);
“WHEREAS the APA adopted the Resolution on Child Custody and Placement in 1976 (Conger, 1977, p. 432);

“WHEREAS Discrimination against lesbian and gay parents deprives their children of benefits, rights and privileges enjoyed by children of heterosexual married couples;

“WHEREAS Some jurisdictions prohibit gay and lesbian individuals and same-sex couples from adopting children, notwithstanding the great need for adoptive parents (Lofton v. Secretary, 2004);

“WHEREAS There is no scientific evidence that parenting effectiveness is related to parental sexual orientation: lesbian and gay parents are as likely as heterosexual parents to provide supportive and healthy environments for their children (Patterson, 2000, 2004; Perrin, 2002; Tasker, 1999);

“WHEREAS Research has shown that the adjustment, development and psychological well-being of children is unrelated to parental sexual orientation and that the children of lesbian and gay parents are as likely as those of heterosexual parents to flourish (Patterson, 2004; Perrin, 2002; Stacey & Biblarz, 2001);

“THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED That the APA opposes any discrimination based on sexual orientation in matters of adoption, child custody and visitation, foster care and reproductive health services;”

 

[Seawytch]

If the American psychological association, psychiatric association, medical association and pediatricans agreed with you, I might as well.

You do not know what these people think.
And again, if someone looks to a study to make decision about the proper development of children, it's obvious that person has not the knowledge or experience raising children to make such extreme decisions for children.

Let children speak, not researchers accredited by government.

Well, there are kids of gay parents who think their childhood was great. Legally, there has to be scientifically validated evidence. And the APAs and AMA are not govt tools.

If the American psychological association, psychiatric association, medical association and pediatricans agreed with you, I might as well.

You do not know what these people think.
And again, if someone looks to a study to make decision about the proper development of children, it's obvious that person has not the knowledge or experience raising children to make such extreme decisions for children.

Let children speak, not researchers accredited by government.

Well, there are kids of gay parents who think their childhood was great. Legally, there has to be scientifically validated evidence. And the APAs and AMA are not govt tools.

There is no, "scientifically validated evidence", that children will choose two men in a homosexual relationship as parents.

So thank you for validating my post while destroying your own.

Let children decide who their parents are? Did doctors leave a sponge in your brain after surgery?

Yes, let orphaned children decide.

You prefer that homosexual men decide for the orphaned children.

Lots of intelligence in that idea. Homosexuals decide.

No, adoption agencies decide.

 

[Seawytch]

Rikurzhen, you posted "Why does society care that two people love each other? The legal and social benefits only kick in when kids are born." That's not correct. There are economic benefits to marriage for childless people in terms of employment benefits, social security, health care decision making ..... This was actually the basis for striking down DOMA, and there was no mention there of kids.

I apologize for not being clear. What I wrote was about how laws SHOULD be. Those economic benefits to marriage should not exist for couples without kids, for after all, marriage is about love. Society doesn't benefit when you love your spouse. Society benefits when you sacrifice and raise kids.

And gays, who can and do have children, get the goodies too, right?

Unless it's by artificial means, they aren't gays. They're bi-sexuals.

Wow...you truly have no understanding of human sexuality do you? I could have sex with a man every day for the rest of my life...and I still would not be bisexual, only gay.

 

[Pop23]

Rikurzhen, you posted "Why does society care that two people love each other? The legal and social benefits only kick in when kids are born." That's not correct. There are economic benefits to marriage for childless people in terms of employment benefits, social security, health care decision making ..... This was actually the basis for striking down DOMA, and there was no mention there of kids.

I apologize for not being clear. What I wrote was about how laws SHOULD be. Those economic benefits to marriage should not exist for couples without kids, for after all, marriage is about love. Society doesn't benefit when you love your spouse. Society benefits when you sacrifice and raise kids.

And gays, who can and do have children, get the goodies too, right?

Unless it's by artificial means, they aren't gays. They're bi-sexuals.

Wow...you truly have no understanding of human sexuality do you? I could have sex with a man every day for the rest of my life...and I still would not be bisexual, only gay.

In word you'd be a lesbian, in practice a bisexual.

You truly are kinda dense.

 

[Seawytch]

Rikurzhen, you posted "Why does society care that two people love each other? The legal and social benefits only kick in when kids are born." That's not correct. There are economic benefits to marriage for childless people in terms of employment benefits, social security, health care decision making ..... This was actually the basis for striking down DOMA, and there was no mention there of kids.

I apologize for not being clear. What I wrote was about how laws SHOULD be. Those economic benefits to marriage should not exist for couples without kids, for after all, marriage is about love. Society doesn't benefit when you love your spouse. Society benefits when you sacrifice and raise kids.

And gays, who can and do have children, get the goodies too, right?

Not if they're human rights violators. If they adopt a child, then yes. If they enter their marriage with a child from a failed normal marriage, then yes. But purposely creating a child in order to deprive the child of its human rights, no, that cannot be encouraged.

Sorry...already done that...and our daughter is a beautiful child grown to an adult.

Yeah I did it too...a bunch and I'm not at all sorry for our two beautiful children and the three surrogate children.

 

[Seawytch]

The meaning of words change. 100 years ago, marriage meant something entirely different than what it means today. Women were treated as property, for example. If you want to live in a bubble where nothing ever changes, too bad. Such a place does not exist.

Meanwhile, there is no rational basis to deny same-sex couples marriage license. Denying same-sex couples marriage licenses create demonstrable harms, but not a single demonstrable benefit.

Allowing same sex marriages causes demonstrable harm. There is a perfectly rational basis for not allowing them: gays can't reproduce. Therefor, there is no reason to grant them the marriage franchise.

Yet the thread is about children, which is reason enough not to allow Homosexuals the privilege of adoption.

Damn good thing you don't make the rules. Good for the kids that is.

 

[Seawytch]

Pure bullshit. Wiv

So you've got nothing. Well, I should have guessed. Since you have nothing of substance to say, this discussion is over.

It was never a conversation, I am simply pointing out your misunderstanding and ignorance.

You think that historically marriage was the equivalent of slavery,

you have taken this thread so far from the op the only thing left is to point towards your post, and state the fact....

bullshit

Women used to be considered no more than property in a marriage. Is that akin to slavery or isn't it?

 

[Seawytch]

Rikurzhen, you posted "Why does society care that two people love each other? The legal and social benefits only kick in when kids are born." That's not correct. There are economic benefits to marriage for childless people in terms of employment benefits, social security, health care decision making ..... This was actually the basis for striking down DOMA, and there was no mention there of kids.

I apologize for not being clear. What I wrote was about how laws SHOULD be. Those economic benefits to marriage should not exist for couples without kids, for after all, marriage is about love. Society doesn't benefit when you love your spouse. Society benefits when you sacrifice and raise kids.

And gays, who can and do have children, get the goodies too, right?

Unless it's by artificial means, they aren't gays. They're bi-sexuals.

Wow...you truly have no understanding of human sexuality do you? I could have sex with a man every day for the rest of my life...and I still would not be bisexual, only gay.

In word you'd be a lesbian, in practice a bisexual.

You truly are kinda dense.

You also have no understanding of human sexuality. Let me guess...you think the guys that fuck other guys in prison are gay don't you?

You're not just dense, you're actually stupid in the literal sense of the word.

 

[Silhouette]

Rikurzhen, you posted "Why does society care that two people love each other? The legal and social benefits only kick in when kids are born." That's not correct. There are economic benefits to marriage for childless people in terms of employment benefits, social security, health care decision making ..... This was actually the basis for striking down DOMA, and there was no mention there of kids.

I apologize for not being clear. What I wrote was about how laws SHOULD be. Those economic benefits to marriage should not exist for couples without kids, for after all, marriage is about love. Society doesn't benefit when you love your spouse. Society benefits when you sacrifice and raise kids.

And gays, who can and do have children, get the goodies too, right?

Unless it's by artificial means, they aren't gays. They're bi-sexuals.

Wow...you truly have no understanding of human sexuality do you? I could have sex with a man every day for the rest of my life...and I still would not be bisexual, only gay.

Just like an alcoholic can drink diet coke every day for the rest of their life and still be an alcoholic. It doesn't mean that compulsive addictive behaviors belong mainstreamed as a "revered social value"...

 

[Stephanie]

some people just can't let children be children

You have to DUMP all this heavy crap in their laps as if they can do anything about it

you want to use children until it comes to abortion

 

[bripat9643]

Rikurzhen, you posted "Why does society care that two people love each other? The legal and social benefits only kick in when kids are born." That's not correct. There are economic benefits to marriage for childless people in terms of employment benefits, social security, health care decision making ..... This was actually the basis for striking down DOMA, and there was no mention there of kids.

I apologize for not being clear. What I wrote was about how laws SHOULD be. Those economic benefits to marriage should not exist for couples without kids, for after all, marriage is about love. Society doesn't benefit when you love your spouse. Society benefits when you sacrifice and raise kids.

And gays, who can and do have children, get the goodies too, right?

Unless it's by artificial means, they aren't gays. They're bi-sexuals.

Wow...you truly have no understanding of human sexuality do you? I could have sex with a man every day for the rest of my life...and I still would not be bisexual, only gay.

A true homosexual male can't have sex with a woman. You understand the mechanics, I imagine.

 

[Pop23]

I apologize for not being clear. What I wrote was about how laws SHOULD be. Those economic benefits to marriage should not exist for couples without kids, for after all, marriage is about love. Society doesn't benefit when you love your spouse. Society benefits when you sacrifice and raise kids.

And gays, who can and do have children, get the goodies too, right?

Unless it's by artificial means, they aren't gays. They're bi-sexuals.

Wow...you truly have no understanding of human sexuality do you? I could have sex with a man every day for the rest of my life...and I still would not be bisexual, only gay.

In word you'd be a lesbian, in practice a bisexual.

You truly are kinda dense.

You also have no understanding of human sexuality. Let me guess...you think the guys that fuck other guys in prison are gay don't you?

You're not just dense, you're actually stupid in the literal sense of the word.

In prison or out, they are gay or bisexual.

Doesn't take rocket surgery to figure that out.

Now for your example

Any lesbian (coughs) that has sex with men every day are:

A. Bisexual

B. A hooker

C. Being held hostage and forced to have sex daily. (If it's ISIS and you see a video camera being brought in, you will not worry about the sex tomorrow)

D. A bisexual hooker being held hostage and forced to have sex with a man daily.

Pick one

 

[Silhouette]

some people just can't let children be children

You have to DUMP all this heavy crap in their laps as if they can do anything about it

you want to use children until it comes to abortion

What exactly is your point here?

 

[Seawytch]

And gays, who can and do have children, get the goodies too, right?

Unless it's by artificial means, they aren't gays. They're bi-sexuals.

Wow...you truly have no understanding of human sexuality do you? I could have sex with a man every day for the rest of my life...and I still would not be bisexual, only gay.

In word you'd be a lesbian, in practice a bisexual.

You truly are kinda dense.

You also have no understanding of human sexuality. Let me guess...you think the guys that fuck other guys in prison are gay don't you?

You're not just dense, you're actually stupid in the literal sense of the word.

In prison or out, they are gay or bisexual.

Doesn't take rocket surgery to figure that out.

Now for your example

Any lesbian (coughs) that has sex with men every day are:

A. Bisexual

B. A hooker

C. Being held hostage and forced to have sex daily. (If it's ISIS and you see a video camera being brought in, you will not worry about the sex tomorrow)

D. A bisexual hooker being held hostage and forced to have sex with a man daily.

Pick one

Your ignorance is truly astounding. I pity you that you can't separate sex from sexuality.

 

[Seawytch]

Rikurzhen, you posted "Why does society care that two people love each other? The legal and social benefits only kick in when kids are born." That's not correct. There are economic benefits to marriage for childless people in terms of employment benefits, social security, health care decision making ..... This was actually the basis for striking down DOMA, and there was no mention there of kids.

I apologize for not being clear. What I wrote was about how laws SHOULD be. Those economic benefits to marriage should not exist for couples without kids, for after all, marriage is about love. Society doesn't benefit when you love your spouse. Society benefits when you sacrifice and raise kids.

And gays, who can and do have children, get the goodies too, right?

Unless it's by artificial means, they aren't gays. They're bi-sexuals.

Wow...you truly have no understanding of human sexuality do you? I could have sex with a man every day for the rest of my life...and I still would not be bisexual, only gay.

A true homosexual male can't have sex with a woman. You understand the mechanics, I imagine.

I understand the "mechanics" just fine. That you think it's all "mechanics" is what makes you so ignorant.

 

[bendog]

Rikurzhen, you posted "Why does society care that two people love each other? The legal and social benefits only kick in when kids are born." That's not correct. There are economic benefits to marriage for childless people in terms of employment benefits, social security, health care decision making ..... This was actually the basis for striking down DOMA, and there was no mention there of kids.

I apologize for not being clear. What I wrote was about how laws SHOULD be. Those economic benefits to marriage should not exist for couples without kids, for after all, marriage is about love. Society doesn't benefit when you love your spouse. Society benefits when you sacrifice and raise kids.

And gays, who can and do have children, get the goodies too, right?

Unless it's by artificial means, they aren't gays. They're bi-sexuals.

Wow...you truly have no understanding of human sexuality do you? I could have sex with a man every day for the rest of my life...and I still would not be bisexual, only gay.

A true homosexual male can't have sex with a woman. You understand the mechanics, I imagine.

I defer to your greater experience.