Are people basically good?

[ricechickie]

You’ve descended into insults. No wonder you think humans are inherently bad. It’s your defense, poor thing.

I just ask, WWJD?

GT descends into insults all the time. You don’t seem to have a problem with that. Why?

He never claimed to be a Christian, so I don’t expect him to emulate Christ.

Of course, not to upset the Christians among us, but I happen to believe that if God exists, He would appreciate a good person who doesn’t believe rather than a hypocrite that pays lip service to Him.

But that’s just me.

Universal right and wrong applies to everyone.

I agree that God does not appreciate lip service. The Bible is full of books on the subject.

Which is why I try to avoid rationalizations.

But just so I’m clear on your answer you give GT a hall pass on insulting others because he’s not a Christian? It seems to me there might be a different reason. Like you approve of it because you have judged the other person worthy of abuse. Could that be it?

He’s not a hypocrite. I don’t see him whining about being insulted by others, or God forbid, reporting them.

He doesn’t pretend to be a Christian who then says vicious things to people who dare question him.

I’m not his momma, so his posts don’t reflect on me.

I never said his posts reflect on you, they don’t. What reflects on you is what you do.

Are you trying to say that I say vicious things to people who don’t agree with me. Because that’s exactly what GT does.

As to your reporting comment are you referring to TN’s comment that I was home schooled by someone who had sex with me?

I wasn’t talking about you. I was speaking in generalities. Reporting is stupid, especially in the Flame Zone. If you can’t hang, don’t hang.

 

[ding]

So then you can’t blame Ropey for doing what he did, anymore than you could blame him for having brown eyes.

Are you saying I don’t deserve consideration for my feelings?

You could be right.

I didn’t say that at all nor do I believe you don’t.

I do believe there is a universal right and wrong.

The question I am posing is that if you don’t believe there is one how can you get upset when one violates it.

I know you believe that. I don’t.

Still, whether I agree with it or not, I would not intend to cause you pain. Or anyone on here. And I’ve said it before, but if I do cause someone pain with my words, I want someone to let ms know, and I would apologize and not do it anymore.

Just because I don’t believe in a universal standard of decency, doesn’t mean I’m not allowed to have feelings.....which seems like what you’re telling me.

No offense and I do not wish to cause you pain but I think you pay lip service to what you just wrote.

Tell me an example.

I have a fee standards that I try to uphold, even when I’m angry. Anything else, someone would need ro tell me that it’s crossing their line. And I’d listen.

I think you rationalize that you are doing right when you are doing wrong because you believe they deserved it.

All I am suggesting is that instead of rationalizing it, to just acknowledge it.

I’m not going to comb through the records to show you past examples. We all do it. Some to a lesser degree others to a greater degree.

 

[Cecilie1200]

What I just learned is that your high-school English teacher should be slapped.

In the English language, it is grammatically incorrect to refer to a sentient being as "it". The male pronouns also serve as neutral pronouns. Therefore, although God does not have a sex in the same way that humans do, proper English grammar refers to Him with male pronouns.

You will notice, if you ever discuss abortion with me, that I also refer to unborn babies as "he", even though they obviously are not all male. Same reason.

1. I don’t see the “it” in GT’s post to which you were responding.

2. That grammar rule is changing to relfect a society that isn’t patriarchal.

1) Reading comprehension is apparently not your thing. No one said the word "it" appeared in GT's post, Brain Trust. He said that I think God has male genitalia, because I refer to Him by male pronouns. I explained that I do so for grammatical reasons.

2) I have no interest in participating in the degradation of the language by low-class, slackjawed imbeciles. The purpose of language is to communicate effectively, not to make people with emotional issues feel better.

And when I need instruction on how I "should" speak, I certainly will not look for it OR receive it from the likes of you.

You’ve descended into insults. No wonder you think humans are inherently bad. It’s your defense, poor thing.

I just ask, WWJD?

GT descends into insults all the time. You don’t seem to have a problem with that. Why?

He never claimed to be a Christian, so I don’t expect him to emulate Christ.

Of course, not to upset the Christians among us, but I happen to believe that if God exists, He would appreciate a good person who doesn’t believe rather than a hypocrite that pays lip service to Him.

But that’s just me.

God's not a fan of hypocrites, that's true; and I'm certain He does appreciate attempts to be a good person wherever they come from.

But when it comes down to the afterlife, they're probably both SOL.

 

[ding]

GT descends into insults all the time. You don’t seem to have a problem with that. Why?

He never claimed to be a Christian, so I don’t expect him to emulate Christ.

Of course, not to upset the Christians among us, but I happen to believe that if God exists, He would appreciate a good person who doesn’t believe rather than a hypocrite that pays lip service to Him.

But that’s just me.

Universal right and wrong applies to everyone.

I agree that God does not appreciate lip service. The Bible is full of books on the subject.

Which is why I try to avoid rationalizations.

But just so I’m clear on your answer you give GT a hall pass on insulting others because he’s not a Christian? It seems to me there might be a different reason. Like you approve of it because you have judged the other person worthy of abuse. Could that be it?

He’s not a hypocrite. I don’t see him whining about being insulted by others, or God forbid, reporting them.

He doesn’t pretend to be a Christian who then says vicious things to people who dare question him.

I’m not his momma, so his posts don’t reflect on me.

I never said his posts reflect on you, they don’t. What reflects on you is what you do.

Are you trying to say that I say vicious things to people who don’t agree with me. Because that’s exactly what GT does.

As to your reporting comment are you referring to TN’s comment that I was home schooled by someone who had sex with me?

I wasn’t talking about you. I was speaking in generalities. Reporting is stupid, especially in the Flame Zone. If you can’t hang, don’t hang.

Ok, thanks for clarifying.

One could argue that reporting is a form of tweaking. I wouldn’t but I can see how that argument makes sense. It certainly stirs the pot and illicits anger. Seems to me that tweaking others is a purpose of the flame zone.

 

[ricechickie]

Are you saying I don’t deserve consideration for my feelings?

You could be right.

I didn’t say that at all nor do I believe you don’t.

I do believe there is a universal right and wrong.

The question I am posing is that if you don’t believe there is one how can you get upset when one violates it.

I know you believe that. I don’t.

Still, whether I agree with it or not, I would not intend to cause you pain. Or anyone on here. And I’ve said it before, but if I do cause someone pain with my words, I want someone to let ms know, and I would apologize and not do it anymore.

Just because I don’t believe in a universal standard of decency, doesn’t mean I’m not allowed to have feelings.....which seems like what you’re telling me.

No offense and I do not wish to cause you pain but I think you pay lip service to what you just wrote.

Tell me an example.

I have a fee standards that I try to uphold, even when I’m angry. Anything else, someone would need ro tell me that it’s crossing their line. And I’d listen.

I think you rationalize that you are doing right when you are doing wrong because you believe they deserved it.

All I am suggesting is that instead of rationalizing it, to just acknowledge it.

I’m not going to comb through the records to show you past examples. We all do it. Some to a lesser degree others to a greater degree.

So no concrete example, just an overall impression.

I’ll be sure to take that under advisement, but I assure you, all my life, I’ve always been my harshest critic. If I think I’m ok, at this age and stage of my life, then I’m ok.

But don’t worry, I’m always reassessing.

 

[ding]

So then you can’t blame Ropey for doing what he did, anymore than you could blame him for having brown eyes.

Are you saying I don’t deserve consideration for my feelings?

You could be right.

I didn’t say that at all nor do I believe you don’t.

I do believe there is a universal right and wrong.

The question I am posing is that if you don’t believe there is one how can you get upset when one violates it.

I know you believe that. I don’t.

Still, whether I agree with it or not, I would not intend to cause you pain. Or anyone on here. And I’ve said it before, but if I do cause someone pain with my words, I want someone to let ms know, and I would apologize and not do it anymore.

Just because I don’t believe in a universal standard of decency, doesn’t mean I’m not allowed to have feelings.....which seems like what you’re telling me.

No offense and I do not wish to cause you pain but I think you pay lip service to what you just wrote.

Tell me an example.

I have a few standards that I try to uphold, even when I’m angry. Anything else, someone would need ro tell me that it’s crossing their line. And I’d listen.

I’d like to come back to your standards. If standards are not universal then how can you blame someone for violating your standards?

 

[ding]

I didn’t say that at all nor do I believe you don’t.

I do believe there is a universal right and wrong.

The question I am posing is that if you don’t believe there is one how can you get upset when one violates it.

I know you believe that. I don’t.

Still, whether I agree with it or not, I would not intend to cause you pain. Or anyone on here. And I’ve said it before, but if I do cause someone pain with my words, I want someone to let ms know, and I would apologize and not do it anymore.

Just because I don’t believe in a universal standard of decency, doesn’t mean I’m not allowed to have feelings.....which seems like what you’re telling me.

No offense and I do not wish to cause you pain but I think you pay lip service to what you just wrote.

Tell me an example.

I have a fee standards that I try to uphold, even when I’m angry. Anything else, someone would need ro tell me that it’s crossing their line. And I’d listen.

I think you rationalize that you are doing right when you are doing wrong because you believe they deserved it.

All I am suggesting is that instead of rationalizing it, to just acknowledge it.

I’m not going to comb through the records to show you past examples. We all do it. Some to a lesser degree others to a greater degree.

So no concrete example, just an overall impression.

I’ll be sure to take that under advisement, but I assure you, all my life, I’ve always been my harshest critic. If I think I’m ok, at this age and stage of my life, then I’m ok.

But don’t worry, I’m always reassessing.

There have been plenty of examples. I’m just not going to waste my time to dig them up. I have a feeling you would argue you didn’t violate anything. That does seem to be human nature.

I never said or thought you are a bad person.

 

[ricechickie]

Are you saying I don’t deserve consideration for my feelings?

You could be right.

I didn’t say that at all nor do I believe you don’t.

I do believe there is a universal right and wrong.

The question I am posing is that if you don’t believe there is one how can you get upset when one violates it.

I know you believe that. I don’t.

Still, whether I agree with it or not, I would not intend to cause you pain. Or anyone on here. And I’ve said it before, but if I do cause someone pain with my words, I want someone to let ms know, and I would apologize and not do it anymore.

Just because I don’t believe in a universal standard of decency, doesn’t mean I’m not allowed to have feelings.....which seems like what you’re telling me.

No offense and I do not wish to cause you pain but I think you pay lip service to what you just wrote.

Tell me an example.

I have a few standards that I try to uphold, even when I’m angry. Anything else, someone would need ro tell me that it’s crossing their line. And I’d listen.

I’d like to come back to your standards. If standards are not universal then how can you blame someone for violating your standards?

I don’t. I blame them for not acknowledging (apologizing) when they’ve hurt someone. Maybe they didn’t know the pain they caused.

We all violate someone’s standards at some time, I believe usually out of ignorance. But once you’re made aware of it, if a sincere attempt to make amends isn’t made, then chances are you’re a callous person.

It’s called empathy.

 

[ding]

To answer this question, we should first define what "good" means to each of us, and then answer.

What say you?

Evil, like cold and darkness are not extant. They do not exist by themselves, they exist as the absence of something else. Darkness is the absence of light. Cold is the absence of heat. And evil is the absence of good. So to answer your question, man is good as evil is not extant.

Evil is a lot more active than just the "absence of good." It is actions abhorrent to society. However, different societies find different things "abhorrent." For that reason, I find it hard to believe the Platonic theory that Good (and its flip side evil) is an immutable force in the universe. Humans determine the rules, and they determine what is good and what is evil.

What I have been trying to explain is that standards exist independent of man. In other words, man cannot pick just any standard and get the same results. Ergo standards exist independent of what man wants them to be.

 

[ricechickie]

I know you believe that. I don’t.

Still, whether I agree with it or not, I would not intend to cause you pain. Or anyone on here. And I’ve said it before, but if I do cause someone pain with my words, I want someone to let ms know, and I would apologize and not do it anymore.

Just because I don’t believe in a universal standard of decency, doesn’t mean I’m not allowed to have feelings.....which seems like what you’re telling me.

No offense and I do not wish to cause you pain but I think you pay lip service to what you just wrote.

Tell me an example.

I have a fee standards that I try to uphold, even when I’m angry. Anything else, someone would need ro tell me that it’s crossing their line. And I’d listen.

I think you rationalize that you are doing right when you are doing wrong because you believe they deserved it.

All I am suggesting is that instead of rationalizing it, to just acknowledge it.

I’m not going to comb through the records to show you past examples. We all do it. Some to a lesser degree others to a greater degree.

So no concrete example, just an overall impression.

I’ll be sure to take that under advisement, but I assure you, all my life, I’ve always been my harshest critic. If I think I’m ok, at this age and stage of my life, then I’m ok.

But don’t worry, I’m always reassessing.

There have been plenty of examples. I’m just not going to waste my time to dig them up. I have a feeling you would argue you didn’t violate anything. That does seem to be human nature.

I never said or thought you are a bad person.

Pardon me for funnying this, but if you can’t easily find examples, then they’re probably few and far between.

 

[G.T.]

So many logical fallacies, so little time to dingerr.

 

[ding]

I didn’t say that at all nor do I believe you don’t.

I do believe there is a universal right and wrong.

The question I am posing is that if you don’t believe there is one how can you get upset when one violates it.

I know you believe that. I don’t.

Still, whether I agree with it or not, I would not intend to cause you pain. Or anyone on here. And I’ve said it before, but if I do cause someone pain with my words, I want someone to let ms know, and I would apologize and not do it anymore.

Just because I don’t believe in a universal standard of decency, doesn’t mean I’m not allowed to have feelings.....which seems like what you’re telling me.

No offense and I do not wish to cause you pain but I think you pay lip service to what you just wrote.

Tell me an example.

I have a few standards that I try to uphold, even when I’m angry. Anything else, someone would need ro tell me that it’s crossing their line. And I’d listen.

I’d like to come back to your standards. If standards are not universal then how can you blame someone for violating your standards?

I don’t. I blame them for not acknowledging (apologizing) when they’ve hurt someone. Maybe they didn’t know the pain they caused.

We all violate someone’s standards at some time, I believe usually out of ignorance. But once you’re made aware of it, if a sincere attempt to make amends isn’t made, then chances are you’re a callous person.

It’s called empathy.

What you have just described is that you believe in a universal standard of empathy. That others should know and adhere to, right?

 

[ding]

So many logical fallacies, so little time to dingerr.

Jump right in. The water is fine.

 

[ding]

No offense and I do not wish to cause you pain but I think you pay lip service to what you just wrote.

Tell me an example.

I have a fee standards that I try to uphold, even when I’m angry. Anything else, someone would need ro tell me that it’s crossing their line. And I’d listen.

I think you rationalize that you are doing right when you are doing wrong because you believe they deserved it.

All I am suggesting is that instead of rationalizing it, to just acknowledge it.

I’m not going to comb through the records to show you past examples. We all do it. Some to a lesser degree others to a greater degree.

So no concrete example, just an overall impression.

I’ll be sure to take that under advisement, but I assure you, all my life, I’ve always been my harshest critic. If I think I’m ok, at this age and stage of my life, then I’m ok.

But don’t worry, I’m always reassessing.

There have been plenty of examples. I’m just not going to waste my time to dig them up. I have a feeling you would argue you didn’t violate anything. That does seem to be human nature.

I never said or thought you are a bad person.

Pardon me for funnying this, but if you can’t easily find examples, then they’re probably few and far between.

Then ignore it.

 

[G.T.]

So many logical fallacies, so little time to dingerr.

Jump right in. The water is fine.

naw, i dont like you enough

 

[ding]

So many logical fallacies, so little time to dingerr.

Jump right in. The water is fine.

naw, i dont like you enough

Suit yourself.

 

[ricechickie]

To answer this question, we should first define what "good" means to each of us, and then answer.

What say you?

Evil, like cold and darkness are not extant. They do not exist by themselves, they exist as the absence of something else. Darkness is the absence of light. Cold is the absence of heat. And evil is the absence of good. So to answer your question, man is good as evil is not extant.

Evil is a lot more active than just the "absence of good." It is actions abhorrent to society. However, different societies find different things "abhorrent." For that reason, I find it hard to believe the Platonic theory that Good (and its flip side evil) is an immutable force in the universe. Humans determine the rules, and they determine what is good and what is evil.

What I have been trying to explain is that standards exist independent of man. In other words, man cannot pick just any standard and get the same results. Ergo standards exist independent of what man wants them to be.

Humans make the standards.

Do you think the cuckoo feels bad for emptying out an occupied nest and laying their own eggs in it? Do you think the strong, young lion feels guilty for chasing the old, weaker lion away from his pride? Do you think sharks feel bad for eating the seal lion pups?

No, humans are social animals with big brains and as such invented this concept called “morality” and think they solve all possible problems if everyone just follows the rules. But the problem with our big brains is that we think we can improve upon others’ ideas. And often we can. However, it means that very few of us will agree on everything, including morality. So, in the absence of that, humans at least have empathy....

 

[Votto]

I strive to do good every day of my life.

My parents raised me with the knowledge that I’m a good person worthy of their love, and God’s love, and imbued with that knowledge, along with corrections when necessary, I loved myself. And I continued to hold myself to high standards to do the right thing, because I have confidence that that is the person I am meant to be.

Why would a Christian want to make me feel otherwise?

Have you ever wronged someone?

 

[ricechickie]

I know you believe that. I don’t.

Still, whether I agree with it or not, I would not intend to cause you pain. Or anyone on here. And I’ve said it before, but if I do cause someone pain with my words, I want someone to let ms know, and I would apologize and not do it anymore.

Just because I don’t believe in a universal standard of decency, doesn’t mean I’m not allowed to have feelings.....which seems like what you’re telling me.

No offense and I do not wish to cause you pain but I think you pay lip service to what you just wrote.

Tell me an example.

I have a few standards that I try to uphold, even when I’m angry. Anything else, someone would need ro tell me that it’s crossing their line. And I’d listen.

I’d like to come back to your standards. If standards are not universal then how can you blame someone for violating your standards?

I don’t. I blame them for not acknowledging (apologizing) when they’ve hurt someone. Maybe they didn’t know the pain they caused.

We all violate someone’s standards at some time, I believe usually out of ignorance. But once you’re made aware of it, if a sincere attempt to make amends isn’t made, then chances are you’re a callous person.

It’s called empathy.

What you have just described is that you believe in a universal standard of empathy. That others should know and adhere to, right?

NO.

Others should listen when someone expresses that they are hurt by someone else’s actions, and try to make amends. It’s not automatic knowledge; it must be learned.

Now, once a person hears, “Don’t call me stupid” (for example) enough times, generalization should kick in, and they should start to think that calling people stupid is generally hurtful to others.

Not in the Flame Zone, of course.

 

[ricechickie]

I strive to do good every day of my life.

My parents raised me with the knowledge that I’m a good person worthy of their love, and God’s love, and imbued with that knowledge, along with corrections when necessary, I loved myself. And I continued to hold myself to high standards to do the right thing, because I have confidence that that is the person I am meant to be.

Why would a Christian want to make me feel otherwise?

Have you ever wronged someone?

Yes. And I’m terribly sorry for it.