Are republican voters really just a bunch of nihilists?

[IsaacNewton]

I have to say I just don't understand why anyone below the top 1% of earners vote republican. Republicans in office do nothing for the middle class and poor. I'm sure by now they would realize that Reagan economics has been proven over and over to be a failure. In terms of economics, there really isn't any reason to vote republican. Our crumbling infrastructure system is certainly a non issue with just about any republican. Of course if it was, they would favor a progressive tax system because that is the ONLY way to pay for fixing our infrastructure beyond racking up an even higher deficit.

I guess if you're immature enough to bitch about gay marriage then I can see why you would vote republican. You're all a bunch of middle schoolers trapped in adult bodies so of course you're going to vote for scumbags just as immature. For those that are pro-life, I can also at least comprehend why you vote republican because it is at least a divisive enough issue.

Beyond that, are the rest of you just nihilists? Rather than defend republicans, you just bitch about democrats. I mean my god why do you people even vote?

You are right of course, the Republican masses vote against their own best interests all the time. To understand why you need not look any further than con-media. It is 24/7

Did you ever consider when looking at our debt, our deficit, our future, that perhaps maybe.....just maybe.....there are TOO MANY people voting for their best interest instead of the best interest of our country?

Maybe if you liberals and some conservatives would quit voting for what's in it for you, we might have a better country.

So you take a statement and twist it to fit your agenda. Con-media 101. You'd fit right in at Faux News. Do you fight on the front lines during the yearly 3 months of the 'War on Christmas'? That is a strange war, no fighting for 9 months out of the year. I guess its hard to get people riled up after New Years, what with the holidays being over and all. Can you call it a war though if it only lasts as long as Santa is on his way?

So, try again, what did you think I really meant by conservatives vote against their own best interests, aside from the hyperbole.

Or do I have to get out the Festivus pole.

Blah blah blah....

Or did you mean yada yada yada...

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

I have to say I just don't understand why anyone below the top 1% of earners vote republican. Republicans in office do nothing for the middle class and poor. I'm sure by now they would realize that Reagan economics has been proven over and over to be a failure. In terms of economics, there really isn't any reason to vote republican. Our crumbling infrastructure system is certainly a non issue with just about any republican. Of course if it was, they would favor a progressive tax system because that is the ONLY way to pay for fixing our infrastructure beyond racking up an even higher deficit.

I guess if you're immature enough to bitch about gay marriage then I can see why you would vote republican. You're all a bunch of middle schoolers trapped in adult bodies so of course you're going to vote for scumbags just as immature. For those that are pro-life, I can also at least comprehend why you vote republican because it is at least a divisive enough issue.

Beyond that, are the rest of you just nihilists? Rather than defend republicans, you just bitch about democrats. I mean my god why do you people even vote?

You are right of course, the Republican masses vote against their own best interests all the time. To understand why you need not look any further than con-media. It is 24/7

Did you ever consider when looking at our debt, our deficit, our future, that perhaps maybe.....just maybe.....there are TOO MANY people voting for their best interest instead of the best interest of our country?

Maybe if you liberals and some conservatives would quit voting for what's in it for you, we might have a better country.

So you take a statement and twist it to fit your agenda. Con-media 101. You'd fit right in at Faux News. Do you fight on the front lines during the yearly 3 months of the 'War on Christmas'? That is a strange war, no fighting for 9 months out of the year. I guess its hard to get people riled up after New Years, what with the holidays being over and all. Can you call it a war though if it only lasts as long as Santa is on his way?

So, try again, what did you think I really meant by conservatives vote against their own best interests, aside from the hyperbole.

Or do I have to get out the Festivus pole.

You made the comment, you tell me what you meant.

I assume (as many discussions with liberals that I've had) you're referring to wealth, or are you a different liberal? LOL!

I didn't twist anything--you did. As for your comment I should be on Fox, thank you very much. Not many people tell me my comments are so good that I belong on the number one cable news network in the country. I'm flattered.....really.....

No, I'm not fighting the war on Christmas this year, are you fighting the war on women????

 

[IsaacNewton]

I have to say I just don't understand why anyone below the top 1% of earners vote republican. Republicans in office do nothing for the middle class and poor. I'm sure by now they would realize that Reagan economics has been proven over and over to be a failure. In terms of economics, there really isn't any reason to vote republican. Our crumbling infrastructure system is certainly a non issue with just about any republican. Of course if it was, they would favor a progressive tax system because that is the ONLY way to pay for fixing our infrastructure beyond racking up an even higher deficit.

I guess if you're immature enough to bitch about gay marriage then I can see why you would vote republican. You're all a bunch of middle schoolers trapped in adult bodies so of course you're going to vote for scumbags just as immature. For those that are pro-life, I can also at least comprehend why you vote republican because it is at least a divisive enough issue.

Beyond that, are the rest of you just nihilists? Rather than defend republicans, you just bitch about democrats. I mean my god why do you people even vote?

You are right of course, the Republican masses vote against their own best interests all the time. To understand why you need not look any further than con-media. It is 24/7

Did you ever consider when looking at our debt, our deficit, our future, that perhaps maybe.....just maybe.....there are TOO MANY people voting for their best interest instead of the best interest of our country?

Maybe if you liberals and some conservatives would quit voting for what's in it for you, we might have a better country.

So you take a statement and twist it to fit your agenda. Con-media 101. You'd fit right in at Faux News. Do you fight on the front lines during the yearly 3 months of the 'War on Christmas'? That is a strange war, no fighting for 9 months out of the year. I guess its hard to get people riled up after New Years, what with the holidays being over and all. Can you call it a war though if it only lasts as long as Santa is on his way?

So, try again, what did you think I really meant by conservatives vote against their own best interests, aside from the hyperbole.

Or do I have to get out the Festivus pole.

You made the comment, you tell me what you meant.

I assume (as many discussions with liberals that I've had) you're referring to wealth, or are you a different liberal? LOL!

I didn't twist anything--you did. As for your comment I should be on Fox, thank you very much. Not many people tell me my comments are so good that I belong on the number one cable news network in the country. I'm flattered.....really.....

No, I'm not fighting the war on Christmas this year, are you fighting the war on women????

Ahh, so you think Faux a good gig. Enough said and good luck with your career. If they accept Palin they'll accept anyone so you should do well.

Happy Festivus.

 

[thereisnospoon]

I didn't say 95% of the country is in poverty. I said that wages are stagnant and their wealth is being reduced.

Actually my percentage is off. According to census figures that came out in the past few days, 10% of Americans are prospering. The remaining 90% are losing ground and the 60% in the middle are losing the most ground.

The myth of free stuff, is another Republican lie. People don't vote Democrat for free stuff, they vote Democrat because they're smart enough to know that the Republicans will just make things worse.

The percentage of non-working adults is high right now for the same reason as in the 70's: Baby Boomers.

In the 70's they were still in school, and now they're retiring.

If you just mindlessly quote statistics without looking at root causes, you can be fooled into believing anything.

WRONG...Retirees are not counted by the BLS as part of the labor participation rate....
And yes, people DO vote for free shit. Your side even promotes free shit. You people freely admit you support the expansion of social spending.
You vote democrat because you believe government exists to do things for you.

 

[IsaacNewton]

I didn't say 95% of the country is in poverty. I said that wages are stagnant and their wealth is being reduced.

Actually my percentage is off. According to census figures that came out in the past few days, 10% of Americans are prospering. The remaining 90% are losing ground and the 60% in the middle are losing the most ground.

The myth of free stuff, is another Republican lie. People don't vote Democrat for free stuff, they vote Democrat because they're smart enough to know that the Republicans will just make things worse.

The percentage of non-working adults is high right now for the same reason as in the 70's: Baby Boomers.

In the 70's they were still in school, and now they're retiring.

If you just mindlessly quote statistics without looking at root causes, you can be fooled into believing anything.

WRONG...Retirees are not counted by the BLS as part of the labor participation rate....
And yes, people DO vote for free shit. Your side even promotes free shit. You people freely admit you support the expansion of social spending.
You vote democrat because you believe government exists to do things for you.

By the way, there are plenty of spoons. Jade Helm didn't take all of them. And besides it is Texas, they surely have some sporks lying around somewhere.

 

[Oldstyle]

We vote because if you socialist idiots win we are saddled with nothing but poverty. You always claim prosperity by taxing someone else but that never happens. Look at Venezuela they did the same thing and can't even get toilet paper to wipe their asses now. That's socialism. That's relying on taking from someone else for your benefit and ability to not work.

Taxing the wealthy does not harm the economy. The tax rate for the wealthy in the 50's was 90% yet that was a decade of great economic growth. If you want to stimulate economic growth, you help the middle class. Democrats understand that.

Why do you liberals even attempt to talk about economic theory when you obviously don't understand it, Billy? The reason that there was great economic growth in the 50's was that World War II had just ended and much of the rest of the world was still digging itself out from the rubble...we were booming because our infrastructure was intact...it WASN'T because tax rates were high on the wealthy!

I'm not saying higher taxes on the wealthy is the reason. I'm saying there was economic growth despite this fact. That's what matters. The middle class was thriving is why.

So let me ask you this, Billy...do you think raising taxes on the wealthy will create the same boom as we saw in the 50's? My point was that the growth then was driven by totally different economic conditions than exist now. Raising taxes on the wealthy and expecting the same result as back then is simply foolhardy. The fact of the matter is that the government is receiving plenty of revenue...they're simply spending it in really stupid ways. We've got rampant waste in government...you know it...I know it...everyone with half a brain knows it...yet rather than fix that we're told that what we really need to do is pour more water into a bucket with big holes in it.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

I have to say I just don't understand why anyone below the top 1% of earners vote republican. Republicans in office do nothing for the middle class and poor. I'm sure by now they would realize that Reagan economics has been proven over and over to be a failure. In terms of economics, there really isn't any reason to vote republican. Our crumbling infrastructure system is certainly a non issue with just about any republican. Of course if it was, they would favor a progressive tax system because that is the ONLY way to pay for fixing our infrastructure beyond racking up an even higher deficit.

I guess if you're immature enough to bitch about gay marriage then I can see why you would vote republican. You're all a bunch of middle schoolers trapped in adult bodies so of course you're going to vote for scumbags just as immature. For those that are pro-life, I can also at least comprehend why you vote republican because it is at least a divisive enough issue.

Beyond that, are the rest of you just nihilists? Rather than defend republicans, you just bitch about democrats. I mean my god why do you people even vote?

You are right of course, the Republican masses vote against their own best interests all the time. To understand why you need not look any further than con-media. It is 24/7

Did you ever consider when looking at our debt, our deficit, our future, that perhaps maybe.....just maybe.....there are TOO MANY people voting for their best interest instead of the best interest of our country?

Maybe if you liberals and some conservatives would quit voting for what's in it for you, we might have a better country.

So you take a statement and twist it to fit your agenda. Con-media 101. You'd fit right in at Faux News. Do you fight on the front lines during the yearly 3 months of the 'War on Christmas'? That is a strange war, no fighting for 9 months out of the year. I guess its hard to get people riled up after New Years, what with the holidays being over and all. Can you call it a war though if it only lasts as long as Santa is on his way?

So, try again, what did you think I really meant by conservatives vote against their own best interests, aside from the hyperbole.

Or do I have to get out the Festivus pole.

You made the comment, you tell me what you meant.

I assume (as many discussions with liberals that I've had) you're referring to wealth, or are you a different liberal? LOL!

I didn't twist anything--you did. As for your comment I should be on Fox, thank you very much. Not many people tell me my comments are so good that I belong on the number one cable news network in the country. I'm flattered.....really.....

No, I'm not fighting the war on Christmas this year, are you fighting the war on women????

Ahh, so you think Faux a good gig. Enough said and good luck with your career. If they accept Palin they'll accept anyone so you should do well.

Happy Festivus.

So what do you consider a good gig? PBS that sucks on taxpayer dollars? NPR?

Yes, I think Fox is a good gig and so do millions of other Americans. We are what made them the number one cable news network for nearly as long as they've been around.

 

[Billy000]

We vote because if you socialist idiots win we are saddled with nothing but poverty. You always claim prosperity by taxing someone else but that never happens. Look at Venezuela they did the same thing and can't even get toilet paper to wipe their asses now. That's socialism. That's relying on taking from someone else for your benefit and ability to not work.

Taxing the wealthy does not harm the economy. The tax rate for the wealthy in the 50's was 90% yet that was a decade of great economic growth. If you want to stimulate economic growth, you help the middle class. Democrats understand that.

Genius...That 90% tax rate applied to roughly 200 individuals. And it applied only to an amount exceeding a very high amount.
its NEVER coming back. So just stop mentioning it.
Democrats don't understand shit. Democrats have been doing whatever they can to increase the number of people dependent on government.
Democrats don't do anything unless it is advantageous to their political career.
Do you really think those people in DC give a shit if someone makes their way out of poverty?.....In fact an upwardly mobile population is detrimental to the left wing political cause.

200 individuals huh? Where does that come from? Obviously if the number was that low 90% would be way too high lol

 

[ScienceRocks]

Somehow it is ok for these assholes to control the market place while destroying competition. Somehow it's ok with you that they use cheap foreign labor as 95% of our country walks into the fucking poor house.

 

[Billy000]

We vote because if you socialist idiots win we are saddled with nothing but poverty. You always claim prosperity by taxing someone else but that never happens. Look at Venezuela they did the same thing and can't even get toilet paper to wipe their asses now. That's socialism. That's relying on taking from someone else for your benefit and ability to not work.

Taxing the wealthy does not harm the economy. The tax rate for the wealthy in the 50's was 90% yet that was a decade of great economic growth. If you want to stimulate economic growth, you help the middle class. Democrats understand that.

Why do you liberals even attempt to talk about economic theory when you obviously don't understand it, Billy? The reason that there was great economic growth in the 50's was that World War II had just ended and much of the rest of the world was still digging itself out from the rubble...we were booming because our infrastructure was intact...it WASN'T because tax rates were high on the wealthy!

I'm not saying higher taxes on the wealthy is the reason. I'm saying there was economic growth despite this fact. That's what matters. The middle class was thriving is why.

So let me ask you this, Billy...do you think raising taxes on the wealthy will create the same boom as we saw in the 50's? My point was that the growth then was driven by totally different economic conditions than exist now. Raising taxes on the wealthy and expecting the same result as back then is simply foolhardy. The fact of the matter is that the government is receiving plenty of revenue...they're simply spending it in really stupid ways. We've got rampant waste in government...you know it...I know it...everyone with half a brain knows it...yet rather than fix that we're told that what we really need to do is pour more water into a bucket with big holes in it.

Revenue is at its highest in terms of raw dollars, but this means jack shit in terms of revenue. The real way to measure of GDP is computing it as a percentage of GDP. In 2000, it was higher.

And yes, I agree spending is too high. Our defense budget is crazy.

 

[Little-Acorn]

Are republican voters really just a bunch of nihilists?


When liberals lose enough arguments (and especially elections) to conservatives, they usually start calling pissing and moaning and telling lies about the conservatives like this.

It's been happening a lot recently, as the Democrat party goes down the tubes (lost Congressional majorities, lost governorships, unable to find any viable candidates for President).

I have to say I just don't understand why anyone below the top 1% of earners vote republican.

I have identified the cause of your problem. See bolded part above.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Somehow it is ok for these assholes to control the market place while destroying competition. Somehow it's ok with you that they use cheap foreign labor as 95% of our country walks into the fucking poor house.

The people that influence foreign labor are the American consumers and nobody else. It's not the evil right-wing corporatists, it's not the evil Republican Congress, it's the American consumer responsible.

Wal-Mart and various other outlets only provide consumers with what they want, and that is cheap products. These consumers could care less about American jobs or our labor force.

The only possible way to change things is to change the minds of the American consumers; good luck with that one.

Until that time comes, place the blame where it rightfully belongs; yourself, your neighbors, your family and friends.

 

[ninja007]

I have to say I just don't understand why anyone below the top 1% of earners vote republican. Republicans in office do nothing for the middle class and poor. I'm sure by now they would realize that Reagan economics has been proven over and over to be a failure. In terms of economics, there really isn't any reason to vote republican. Our crumbling infrastructure system is certainly a non issue with just about any republican. Of course if it was, they would favor a progressive tax system because that is the ONLY way to pay for fixing our infrastructure beyond racking up an even higher deficit.

I guess if you're immature enough to bitch about gay marriage then I can see why you would vote republican. You're all a bunch of middle schoolers trapped in adult bodies so of course you're going to vote for scumbags just as immature. For those that are pro-life, I can also at least comprehend why you vote republican because it is at least a divisive enough issue.

Beyond that, are the rest of you just nihilists? Rather than defend republicans, you just bitch about democrats. I mean my god why do you people even vote?

the crumbling infrastructure certainly wasn't important for the libs after Obama got the money TWICE for that with the STIMULIS'.

 

[Billy000]

Are republican voters really just a bunch of nihilists?


When liberals lose enough arguments (and especially elections) to conservatives, they usually start calling pissing and moaning and telling lies about the conservatives like this.

It's been happening a lot recently, as the Democrat party goes down the tubes (lost Congressional majorities, lost governorships, unable to find any viable candidates for President).

I have to say I just don't understand why anyone below the top 1% of earners vote republican.

I have identified the cause of your problem. See bolded part above.

And yet you haven't explained why you think I am wrong about voting republican. Trust me, I noticed the omission.

 

[Correll]

Slavery, anti-democratic hatred, property restrictions, anti-female, anti-Native American, fugitive slave laws.

Yeah, we want to conserve the Founders' thinking if its expanding the franchising and opening the American dream to everyone.

Do you believe that Human Rights are God Given or Inherent?

This is a fundamental principle of our Enlightenment Era inspired Founding Fathers.

Modern liberals believe that such Rights are granted to people by the All Powerful State.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Slavery, anti-democratic hatred, property restrictions, anti-female, anti-Native American, fugitive slave laws.

Yeah, we want to conserve the Founders' thinking if its expanding the franchising and opening the American dream to everyone.

Do you believe that Human Rights are God Given or Inherent?

This is a fundamental principle of our Enlightenment Era inspired Founding Fathers.

Modern liberals believe that such Rights are granted to people by the All Powerful State.

Why are you trying to change the direction of the discussion? Stay on track. I will respond to your question when we complete the earlier discussion about Founders and their world.

Why are you ignoring the negative aspects of the Founders' actions?

Why are you trying to restrict the citizens' rights?

We are willing to follow the Founders' opinions where it empowers the citizens of the United States.

 

[Correll]

Slavery, anti-democratic hatred, property restrictions, anti-female, anti-Native American, fugitive slave laws.

Yeah, we want to conserve the Founders' thinking if its expanding the franchising and opening the American dream to everyone.

Do you believe that Human Rights are God Given or Inherent?

This is a fundamental principle of our Enlightenment Era inspired Founding Fathers.

Modern liberals believe that such Rights are granted to people by the All Powerful State.

Why are you trying to change the direction of the discussion? Stay on track. I will respond to your question when we complete the earlier discussion about Founders and their world.

Why are you ignoring the negative aspects of the Founders' actions?

Why are you trying to restrict the citizens' rights?

We are willing to follow the Founders' opinions where it empowers the citizens of the United States.

Oh, it was not clear to me that your previous post was a direct response to mine.

The "negative aspects of the Founders's actions" are only relevant to the topic as it relates to how "reactionaries" might be trying to turn the clock back on.

Lets look at your list.

SLavery. NOpe. Dead issue.

Antidemocratic hatred. Not completely sure what you mean. I do think that Direction Election of Senators did remove a needed limit on democratic impulses, and the development of lifetime office holding is also a negative. IMO.

Property Restrictions? NO one is moving on bring that back either.

Anti-female? Another dead issue.

Anti-native American? Dead.

Fugitive slave laws? I am all about crushing slavery and the importation of slaves into America. Seal the border.

My comment on the belief on the nature of Human Rights was in relation to the OP, why someone might vote GOP.

If you believe Human RIghts are God Given, the party that thinks they are given to you by the All Powerful State might be offensive to you.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Slavery, anti-democratic hatred, property restrictions, anti-female, anti-Native American, fugitive slave laws.

Yeah, we want to conserve the Founders' thinking if its expanding the franchising and opening the American dream to everyone.

Do you believe that Human Rights are God Given or Inherent?

This is a fundamental principle of our Enlightenment Era inspired Founding Fathers.

Modern liberals believe that such Rights are granted to people by the All Powerful State.

Why are you trying to change the direction of the discussion? Stay on track. I will respond to your question when we complete the earlier discussion about Founders and their world.

Why are you ignoring the negative aspects of the Founders' actions?

Why are you trying to restrict the citizens' rights?

We are willing to follow the Founders' opinions where it empowers the citizens of the United States.

Oh, it was not clear to me that your previous post was a direct response to mine.

The "negative aspects of the Founders's actions" are only relevant to the topic as it relates to how "reactionaries" might be trying to turn the clock back on.

Lets look at your list.

SLavery. NOpe. Dead issue.

Antidemocratic hatred. Not completely sure what you mean. I do think that Direction Election of Senators did remove a needed limit on democratic impulses, and the development of lifetime office holding is also a negative. IMO.

Property Restrictions? NO one is moving on bring that back either.

Anti-female? Another dead issue.

Anti-native American? Dead.

Fugitive slave laws? I am all about crushing slavery and the importation of slaves into America. Seal the border.

My comment on the belief on the nature of Human Rights was in relation to the OP, why someone might vote GOP.

If you believe Human RIghts are God Given, the party that thinks they are given to you by the All Powerful State might be offensive to you.

Thank you for your reply. We certainly have folks who are anti-women, anti-color, anti-religion, anti-1st Amendment. The question of where the rights derive is immaterial in our American law: they are found in the Constitution. The issue of human rights as integral to our existence deriving from God is another issue altogehter and one I won't discuss here. Start a thread on it, and I will respond.

Because of the great flaws of the Founders, I am quite willing to accept the good parts and drop the bad parts. They are not to be worshipped or adored. And we should certainly not let their opinions and prejudices then restrict us now.

 

[Correll]

Slavery, anti-democratic hatred, property restrictions, anti-female, anti-Native American, fugitive slave laws.

Yeah, we want to conserve the Founders' thinking if its expanding the franchising and opening the American dream to everyone.

Do you believe that Human Rights are God Given or Inherent?

This is a fundamental principle of our Enlightenment Era inspired Founding Fathers.

Modern liberals believe that such Rights are granted to people by the All Powerful State.

Why are you trying to change the direction of the discussion? Stay on track. I will respond to your question when we complete the earlier discussion about Founders and their world.

Why are you ignoring the negative aspects of the Founders' actions?

Why are you trying to restrict the citizens' rights?

We are willing to follow the Founders' opinions where it empowers the citizens of the United States.

Oh, it was not clear to me that your previous post was a direct response to mine.

The "negative aspects of the Founders's actions" are only relevant to the topic as it relates to how "reactionaries" might be trying to turn the clock back on.

Lets look at your list.

SLavery. NOpe. Dead issue.

Antidemocratic hatred. Not completely sure what you mean. I do think that Direction Election of Senators did remove a needed limit on democratic impulses, and the development of lifetime office holding is also a negative. IMO.

Property Restrictions? NO one is moving on bring that back either.

Anti-female? Another dead issue.

Anti-native American? Dead.

Fugitive slave laws? I am all about crushing slavery and the importation of slaves into America. Seal the border.

My comment on the belief on the nature of Human Rights was in relation to the OP, why someone might vote GOP.

If you believe Human RIghts are God Given, the party that thinks they are given to you by the All Powerful State might be offensive to you.

Thank you for your reply. We certainly have folks who are anti-women, anti-color, anti-religion, anti-1st Amendment. The question of where the rights derive is immaterial in our American law: they are found in the Constitution. The issue of human rights as integral to our existence deriving from God is another issue altogehter and one I won't discuss here. Start a thread on it, and I will respond.

Because of the great flaws of the Founders, I am quite willing to accept the good parts and drop the bad parts. They are not to be worshipped or adored. And we should certainly not let their opinions and prejudices then restrict us now.

1. We do not have folks who are "anti-women, anti-color, anti-religion, anti-1st Amendment" in the GOP. Being against an issue that, say feminist claim is "pro-woman" does not make one "anti-woman". Ditto the rest.

2. A basic difference in philosophy between Republicans and Democrats relates directly to the OP/topic, as to why people might vote GOP.

3. God Given or INherent is two ways of saying the same thing vs Granted by Government. THen you are back to #2

4 DIscussing the intent and the competence of the FOunding Fathers with regards to the Constitution is not "whorshipping" them. And it is rare that someone who references them is not prepared to argue the specific case in question on it's merits.

4b on the other hand those that slam Founders for not living up to modern 21st century standards are often trying to marginalize them and dodge substantial debate.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Slavery, anti-democratic hatred, property restrictions, anti-female, anti-Native American, fugitive slave laws.

Yeah, we want to conserve the Founders' thinking if its expanding the franchising and opening the American dream to everyone.

Do you believe that Human Rights are God Given or Inherent?

This is a fundamental principle of our Enlightenment Era inspired Founding Fathers.

Modern liberals believe that such Rights are granted to people by the All Powerful State.

Why are you trying to change the direction of the discussion? Stay on track. I will respond to your question when we complete the earlier discussion about Founders and their world.

Why are you ignoring the negative aspects of the Founders' actions?

Why are you trying to restrict the citizens' rights?

We are willing to follow the Founders' opinions where it empowers the citizens of the United States.

Oh, it was not clear to me that your previous post was a direct response to mine.

The "negative aspects of the Founders's actions" are only relevant to the topic as it relates to how "reactionaries" might be trying to turn the clock back on.

Lets look at your list.

SLavery. NOpe. Dead issue.

Antidemocratic hatred. Not completely sure what you mean. I do think that Direction Election of Senators did remove a needed limit on democratic impulses, and the development of lifetime office holding is also a negative. IMO.

Property Restrictions? NO one is moving on bring that back either.

Anti-female? Another dead issue.

Anti-native American? Dead.

Fugitive slave laws? I am all about crushing slavery and the importation of slaves into America. Seal the border.

My comment on the belief on the nature of Human Rights was in relation to the OP, why someone might vote GOP.

If you believe Human RIghts are God Given, the party that thinks they are given to you by the All Powerful State might be offensive to you.

Thank you for your reply. We certainly have folks who are anti-women, anti-color, anti-religion, anti-1st Amendment. The question of where the rights derive is immaterial in our American law: they are found in the Constitution. The issue of human rights as integral to our existence deriving from God is another issue altogehter and one I won't discuss here. Start a thread on it, and I will respond.

Because of the great flaws of the Founders, I am quite willing to accept the good parts and drop the bad parts. They are not to be worshipped or adored. And we should certainly not let their opinions and prejudices then restrict us now.

1. We do not have folks who are "anti-women, anti-color, anti-religion, anti-1st Amendment" in the GOP. Being against an issue that, say feminist claim is "pro-woman" does not make one "anti-woman". Ditto the rest.

2. A basic difference in philosophy between Republicans and Democrats relates directly to the OP/topic, as to why people might vote GOP.

3. God Given or INherent is two ways of saying the same thing vs Granted by Government. THen you are back to #2

4 DIscussing the intent and the competence of the FOunding Fathers with regards to the Constitution is not "whorshipping" them. And it is rare that someone who references them is not prepared to argue the specific case in question on it's merits.

4b on the other hand those that slam Founders for not living up to modern 21st century standards are often trying to marginalize them and dodge substantial debate.

1. You are in denial. We have people in our party that do not serve legitimate women's interests.
2. I agree. The OP title is one of the sillier ones so far this week.
3. Immaterial. We can only look at governing in terms of the secular Constitution.
4. I gave you examples of why the Founders were greatly flawed and not be accepted without serious reservation today.
4b. It is only presentism if I judge them by our standards as how they lived then. What I am doing is saying I don't want may of their standards applied to us now.