As predicted - Study shows Seattle $15 min wage result is less hours and 5000 less jobs

[The Derp]

The federal government has trained you well… LOL

If you cannot respond intelligently, why respond at all? I understand that you're too much of a baby to have your views challenged, and that you feel the need to embellish your own personal circumstances to lend your argument credibility it doesn't otherwise have. Strip out your make-believe personal anecdotes and what have you got? Nothing.

 

[The Derp]

Until the taxes are collected the federal government cannot claim them, its like they never even existed.
Perceived future taxes are an bullshit excuse...

Conservatives predicted job loss, a market collapse, and a recession if Obama let the Bush Tax Cuts expire on the wealthy at the end of 2012. None of those things happened.

So since Conservatives were wrong about that, why would they be right about anything else?

 

[Rustic]

Well, if the business owner cannot determine what pay should be? He does not own the business, does he? Why even start a small business then?

A business owner can determine what to pay employees. At a minimum, they should be paid enough that they don't qualify for welfare benefits because of their income. Otherwise, we are just subsidizing corporate profits when we have to pay for SNAP for 1.5 million Walmart workers, for example.

No one starts a business just to hire people… The only reason ever to run the business is to make a profit.
It seems you like big brother to run things? I understand your type

You keep saying that, but it's a straw man argument. You hire people because there is demand in the market for whatever good or service you produce. You don't hire workers because you got a tax cut. You hire workers if there is demand and you need to fill that demand.

I don't think the federal government is welcome in my business dealings, they fuck up everything they touch.

I determine what I need for workers, and how much they are paid and what is expected from them. It's up to them to live within their means, you know spend less than what they make. It's called responsibility

 

[Rustic]

The federal government has trained you well… LOL

If you cannot respond intelligently, why respond at all? I understand that you're too much of a baby to have your views challenged, and that you feel the need to embellish your own personal circumstances to lend your argument credibility it doesn't otherwise have. Strip out your make-believe personal anecdotes and what have you got? Nothing.

entitlement does not look good on you… LOL

 

[Iceweasel]

How can we mistake the idiotic garbage that flows from your mind (if we can call it that)? I've owned a business for 32 years, how about you?

I can make up things about myself too! I'm a 5-time, Super Bowl-winning, MVP quarterback who is married to a lingerie model. So because of that, my point-of-view trumps anything you say and immediately discredits your argument.

See how fun playing make-believe is!?

I didn't make anything up, especially when calling you an idiot. So the answer obviously is you never owned a business and have no clue.

 

[Cellblock2429]

Stupid Republicans, I'm tired of your shit. Only an idiot thinks higher costs impacts stuff. A higher wage gives people more money.

/---- That was a joke right? You weren't serious, right?


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

 

[The Derp]

don't think the federal government is welcome in my business dealings, they fuck up everything they touch.

Spare me your melodrama. The government isn't involved in your business dealings, and it's shit like that which makes me doubt anything you claim about yourself. These broad-stroke, generalized, vague platitudes that come from the pretend "business owners" are tiring and fall apart when subject to the slightest scrutiny. The federal government isn't the reason your business sucks...YOU ARE. Take some personal responsibility instead of laying all your problems and blame on the government, which has nothing to do with how you run your (pretend) business.

I determine what I need for workers, and how much they are paid and what is expected from them. It's up to them to live within their means, you know spend less than what they make. It's called responsibility

Exactly, and if you cannot pay your workers a livable wage, then you as a business owner have to be held personally responsible.

 

[Rustic]

Until the taxes are collected the federal government cannot claim them, its like they never even existed.
Perceived future taxes are an bullshit excuse...

Conservatives predicted job loss, a market collapse, and a recession if Obama let the Bush Tax Cuts expire on the wealthy at the end of 2012. None of those things happened.

So since Conservatives were wrong about that, why would they be right about anything else?

A record number of taxes have been collected lately, and still the federal government cannot live within its means and/or budget limit. The politically correct world today thinks it's OK to be that way in their personal lives obviously, The federal government being the example and all…

 

[The Derp]

I didn't make anything up, especially when calling you an idiot. So the answer obviously is you never owned a business and have no clue.

LOL! You don't know shit about me. But I know plenty about you because you've volunteered information about yourselves. Information that doesn't seem to stand to scrutiny. Funny how that works. Conservatives say something stupid, then qualify that stupid thing they said by claiming to be something they're not, whether it's a "small business owner", "Obamacare victim", "married to a (insert minority group here)", or a "veteran". And they do that in order to lend credibility to an argument that has none. If you take out all your references to your own personal circumstances, what does your argument have left? Nothing.

 

[ColonelAngus]

You would counter the wage increase by increasing your advertising expenses so that your business would attract other minimum wage workers?

Ummm, no. I'm attracting consumers. I don't care how much they get paid or where they work, so long as their money is green. Like I said, if you are so shitty a business owner that you cannot get people to patronize your business, then why the fuck should you be entitled to pay people low wages????

Wow.

There is no common ground and no room to debate this with you.

If I were the business owner I would cut labor costs...Particularly if I was at sales capacity. Restaurants have a finite sales ceiling.

Let's lay out a simple P&L for a restaurant. Let's say this is a monthly income statement.

Revenue: (Sales) $25,000

Total Costs: $5,000
Food $4,000
Silverware, plates, napkins...$1000


Total Expenses: $13,000
Rent: $2,000
Utilities: $500
Labor:$8,000
Building expense: $500
Telecom: $500
Advertising: $1500

EBITDA: $7,000 month

Tax expense (35%): $2500

Net income: $4500

Now, if labor goes from $8000 to $11,000....net income is only $1500.


Where do you make up the extra revenue if you own a cafe with a set amount of seats and one location? Specifically?

 

[Rustic]

don't think the federal government is welcome in my business dealings, they fuck up everything they touch.

Spare me your melodrama. The government isn't involved in your business dealings, and it's shit like that which makes me doubt anything you claim about yourself. These broad-stroke, generalized, vague platitudes that come from the pretend "business owners" are tiring and fall apart when subject to the slightest scrutiny. The federal government isn't the reason your business sucks...YOU ARE. Take some personal responsibility instead of laying all your problems and blame on the government, which has nothing to do with how you run your (pretend) business.

I determine what I need for workers, and how much they are paid and what is expected from them. It's up to them to live within their means, you know spend less than what they make. It's called responsibility

Exactly, and if you cannot pay your workers a livable wage, then you as a business owner have to be held personally responsible.

You obviously believe what you want…

It's a privilege to work not a right... no if they don't want to work they can move on to something else… Like flipping burgers

 

[Rustic]

I didn't make anything up, especially when calling you an idiot. So the answer obviously is you never owned a business and have no clue.

LOL! You don't know shit about me. But I know plenty about you because you've volunteered information about yourselves. Information that doesn't seem to stand to scrutiny. Funny how that works. Conservatives say something stupid, then qualify that stupid thing they said by claiming to be something they're not, whether it's a "small business owner", "Obamacare victim", "married to a (insert minority group here)", or a "veteran". And they do that in order to lend credibility to an argument that has none. If you take out all your references to your own personal circumstances, what does your argument have left? Nothing.

Says the control freak… LOL

 

[The Derp]

A record number of taxes have been collected lately, and still the federal government cannot live within its means and/or budget limit.

First of all, why does it have to? Not one western democracy runs a budget surplus. Government has to run deficits because it doesn't collect all revenue at once. Secondly, the bulk of government spending is in three areas: Social Security, Medicare, Defense. So if you are so concerned with government spending and want to balance a budget (debatable you can balance a budget with spending cuts anyway), then you're gonna have to cut from those three. So what do you want to cut? Social Security checks? Medicare for seniors? Medicaid for nursing homes? Want to close some of the military bases? Want to gut the Pentagon? What do you want to do? Because even if you cut all discretionary spending, you're still running a budget deficit, not to mention you would need to find a replacement for the drop in government demand that makes up about 16% of the entire economy.

The politically correct world today thinks it's OK to be that way in their personal lives obviously, The federal government being the example and all…

Aren't you the ones who want the federal government to tell who can get married and who cannot? Aren't you the ones who want the federal government to tell a woman she can't do whatever she wants with her body? Aren't you the ones who want to legislate morality all the fucking time? Seriously. Get a grip.

 

[ColonelAngus]

Snowflakes must sleep through their economics classes.

If there is a forced wage increase without a commensurate increase in revenue, jobs and/or hours will be cut.

Here you go, snowflakes, from your bible.

How a Rising Minimum Wage Affects Jobs in Seattle

Since when did you start believing NYT's?
The article really didn't come to any conclusion and if you had read it from beginning to end you would have seen this:

Angela Stowell, an owner and the chief executive of Ethan Stowell Restaurants, which has about 300 employees in 14 restaurants around the city, said it was too early to judge the effect of the minimum-wage law because it was still being phased in. But she said the chain had not reduced hiring because of the higher employee costs, though it has increased some menu prices and instituted a 20 percent service fee.

“Of the 20 restaurateurs I am close friends with in Seattle,” she said, “none have told me they are hiring fewer staff due to the increased minimum wage.”

What did you get from reading the actual study that I linked?

What are the specific issues you disagree with from the conclusions drawn from the study?

 

[The Derp]

It's a privilege to work not a right... no if they don't want to work they can move on to something else… Like flipping burgers

It's also a privilege to own a business and if you cannot own one without forcing taxpayers to subsidize your profits, then you shouldn't own one period.

 

[The Derp]

Says the control freak… LOL

Oh right, I forgot...you're a small business owner who is married to a black person whose obamacare premiums increased 3000%, but you're also a veteran who (inexplicably) isn't on Tricare or the VA, but gets insurance through Obamacare?

Yeah...that's you guys.

 

[The Derp]

Now, if labor goes from $8000 to $11,000....net income is only $1500.

So you're still profitable...you're just not as profitable as before. So how exactly does your little scenario there result in job loss? You also aren't bothering to factor in the increase in revenues that comes from increased spending via increased wages. So you've kept your receipts the same, inexplicably, why? Why didn't you increase your receipts to account for the increase spending from a wage hike? Do you not think people spend more if they're paid more?

Where do you make up the extra revenue if you own a cafe with a set amount of seats and one location? Specifically?

By expanding to meet demand, duh.

 

[The Derp]

Revenue: (Sales) $25,000

I notice you kept this amount constant. Why didn't you increase it? If people have more to spend, wouldn't that result in a larger Sales number?????? Yet you kept it constant, as if an increase in wages doesn't translate to an increase in Sales revenue. Why did you do that?

 

[Rustic]

A record number of taxes have been collected lately, and still the federal government cannot live within its means and/or budget limit.

First of all, why does it have to? Not one western democracy runs a budget surplus. Government has to run deficits because it doesn't collect all revenue at once. Secondly, the bulk of government spending is in three areas: Social Security, Medicare, Defense. So if you are so concerned with government spending and want to balance a budget (debatable you can balance a budget with spending cuts anyway), then you're gonna have to cut from those three. So what do you want to cut? Social Security checks? Medicare for seniors? Medicaid for nursing homes? Want to close some of the military bases? Want to gut the Pentagon? What do you want to do? Because even if you cut all discretionary spending, you're still running a budget deficit, not to mention you would need to find a replacement for the drop in government demand that makes up about 16% of the entire economy.

The politically correct world today thinks it's OK to be that way in their personal lives obviously, The federal government being the example and all…

Aren't you the ones who want the federal government to tell who can get married and who cannot? Aren't you the ones who want the federal government to tell a woman she can't do whatever she wants with her body? Aren't you the ones who want to legislate morality all the fucking time? Seriously. Get a grip.

Until the federal government has no outstanding debt whatsoever, they should not be telling anybody what to pay their help.
Social entitlement programs dominate all spending... that's the obvious place to cut until it hurts, then cut some more.

I'm 47 years old and I'm perfectly fine with the fact I will never see a penny back of what I paid into socialist entitlement programs... money stupidly spent, water under the bridge… LOL
actually I'm a libertarian.

I just dont want to pay for other peoples shit, I know it's pie in the sky and all but wouldn't it be great if everyone had to pay for their own shit? The best thing that could happen if the fucking village burns down. Lol

I'm used to paying for my own shit, I've never bought insurance… I've been debt-free for 20+ years and self-employed for about that same time. My retirement is already set...

But then again, you're a know It all control freak - that does not mean shit to you… LOL

 

[The Derp]

Until the federal government has no outstanding debt whatsoever, they should not be telling anybody what to pay their help.Social entitlement programs dominate all spending... that's the obvious place to cut until it hurts, then cut some more.

But why? What economic sense does it make to end Medicare and Social Security. And why are you so concerned about the federal debt? Where was all this debt concern when Bush the Dumber and Conservatives erased a surplus and produced four record deficits that doubled the debt in 8 years, when if they had done literally nothing, they could have paid it off entirely in 9? So your screeching about debt and deficits rings hollow today, given what happened just 16 years ago. I don't understand this fascination and compulsion Conservatives have to make people suffer. Do you think old people should be thrown out of nursing homes? Because that's mostly what Medicaid pays for.

I'm 47 years old and I'm perfectly fine with the fact I will never see a penny back of what I paid into socialist entitlement programs... money stupidly spent, water under the bridge… LOLctually I'm a libertarian.

Libertarian = Conservative = Teabag = Republican = Klansman

Same shit, different polish. Why don't you support Social Security or Medicare? And what does this have to do with the minimum wage? Seems like you're trying to toss non-sequitur in there in order to avoid the real debate we were having. Well, the debate I thought we were having. You seem to move the goalposts more than a typical Conservative...er um, I mean teabag...er um, I mean Klansman...er um, I mean libertarian.

I just dont want to pay for other peoples shit

It's called 'society', and if you're saying you don't like society, that doesn't make you a Libertarian, it just makes you anti-social. That's a whole different thing than libertarianism. Are you sure you're not mistaking your anti-social behavior for libertarian beliefs?

I'm used to paying for my own shit, I've never bought insurance… I've been debt-free for 20+ years and self-employed for about that same time. My retirement is already set...

I don't believe anything you say about yourself that cannot be verified on a message board. And this just gets to what I was saying earlier, how you have an entitlement complex, where you think you are entitled to say and believe whatever you want. You're not.