Atheism is a Fringe Kook Theory Cult

[Vandalshandle]

There is something basically ridicules about the concept of god creating his only son for the sole purpose of having him tortured and killed as a sacrifice to himself by mankind so that he would no longer feel it necessary to condemn all of mankind, which he also created himself, to eternal damnation.

That does not compute, Will Robinson!

 

[Rationalist1016]

There is no such thing as conversation with atheists since conversation require honesty to be legit, and atheists simply lie whenever they want, therefore there is no actual conversation with liars like you and other atheists.

Please point out a lie that I have told.

"More and more people are abandoning religion. Thus, we ARE in a position where a religious society is competing with a non-religious society. At it's current progress, the non-religious could very well be the majority." - There is no serious estimate that makes nonreligious the majority in the USA, much less globally where religions of various kinds are growing by leaps and bounds.

"What is the objective evidence that religion is a beneficial behavior? How does believing in things that have no evidence, improve someones life?" - there is evidence for religions of various kinds and you ignoring it doesn't mean that it isn't there, which is a lie.

"The fact that most religions hold ancient writings as there basis for their teachings, is where I see the issue. Yes, this is all done by us. But we (people) are not going to move forward, towards more civilized ways of living by worshiping ancient writings." - no one worships ancient writings, another lie.

Three lies and I only went back to page 9, you stupid liar. You atheists lie so much you cant even remember when you have lied and when you are not lying. But of course that assumes that you ever do not lie, which there is scant evidence for.

I proved evidence for the 1st "lie" in another post the explains why I think this is happening. So, if someone is lying, it would be the people who published those studies.
The second "lie" that I told was a question. How is asking a question a lie? You ARE old enough to grasp these concepts right?
And the 3rd "lie" was that religions worship ancient writings. So, Christians don't worship the bible? Muslims don't worship the Koran?

 

[Delta4Embassy]

" Atheism is a Fringe Kook Theory Cult"

"In the very early days of Christianity, there were a few carry-overs from older mythology. One was the belief in cynocephaly (see item 5), or people with the heads of dogs. It was thought that many of the more distant peoples, like central Africans or Indians, had the heads of dogs, many believing that these people would go back to normal once baptized. Different saints who are said to be from distant lands, like St Christopher were depicted with a dog’s head (see above). There was even myths about descendants of Cain, who inhabited Canaan before the Israelis, that “barked and ate human flesh”. Marco Polo was said to be surprised he didn’t see any dog-headed people in China, though he claims many people he talked to had encountered “dog headed barbarians” in Asia.

In the 13th century, a radical Christian denomination popped up, known as the “flagellants” who believed that the best way to absolve sin was to beat yourself silly with whips, switches and other nasty, painful devices to imitate the beating of Christ. While the Pope quickly condemned this practice, “Mortification of the flesh” (see item 3) in moderation was common from the very first days of the Church. Later, in the 15th century, the puritans briefly practiced flagellation, as was recorded in Hawthorn’s novel “The Scarlet Letter”. I was somewhat reluctant to include this one since self-flagellation does still continue in the Catholic Church amongst various religious orders and amongst some cultures in South America.
Top 10 Outdated Christian Beliefs - Listverse

"Heretics may be not only excommunicated, but also justly put to death." - The Catholic Encyclopedia, 1911

"The good Christian should beware of mathematicians and all those who make empty prophecies. The danger already exists that mathematicians have made a covenant with The Devil to darken the spirit and confine man in the bonds of Hell." - St. Augustine

"To assert that the earth revolves around the sun is as erroneous as to claim that Jesus was not born of a virgin." - Cardinal Bellarmine, trial of Galileo, 1615

"Man was made to rule, woman to obey." - St. Augustine

7 A man ought not to cover his head, since he is the image and glory of God; but woman is the glory of man. 8 For man did not come from woman, but woman from man; 9 neither was man created for woman, but woman for man.
- 1 Corinthians 11

"We know from the authority of Moses, that longer than six thousand years ago the world did not exist" - Martin Luther

"We know that reason is the devil's harlot, and can do nothing but slander and harm all that god says and does." - Martin Luther

"The doctrine of the double motion of the earth about its axis and about the sun is false, and entirely contrary to Holy Scripture." - Pope Paul V

[Popes are infallible though so ignore that one]

"Sin is the moral cause of earthquakes." - John Wesley

"Evolution is a bankrupt speculative philosophy, not a scientific fact. Only a spiritually bankrupt society could ever believe it...Only atheists could accept this Satanic theory." - Reverend Jimmy Swaggart

"No, I don't know that atheists should be considered as citizens, nor should they be considered as patriots. This is one nation under God." - George Bush, Sr.



...But atheists are the kooky ones. (rolls eyes)

 

[sealybobo]

Please point out a lie that I have told.

"More and more people are abandoning religion. Thus, we ARE in a position where a religious society is competing with a non-religious society. At it's current progress, the non-religious could very well be the majority." - There is no serious estimate that makes nonreligious the majority in the USA, much less globally where religions of various kinds are growing by leaps and bounds.

"What is the objective evidence that religion is a beneficial behavior? How does believing in things that have no evidence, improve someones life?" - there is evidence for religions of various kinds and you ignoring it doesn't mean that it isn't there, which is a lie.

"The fact that most religions hold ancient writings as there basis for their teachings, is where I see the issue. Yes, this is all done by us. But we (people) are not going to move forward, towards more civilized ways of living by worshiping ancient writings." - no one worships ancient writings, another lie.

Three lies and I only went back to page 9, you stupid liar. You atheists lie so much you cant even remember when you have lied and when you are not lying. But of course that assumes that you ever do not lie, which there is scant evidence for.

I proved evidence for the 1st "lie" in another post the explains why I think this is happening. So, if someone is lying, it would be the people who published those studies.
The second "lie" that I told was a question. How is asking a question a lie? You ARE old enough to grasp these concepts right?
And the 3rd "lie" was that religions worship ancient writings. So, Christians don't worship the bible? Muslims don't worship the Koran?

I've noticed that jackass calling me a liar too when I sincerely believe everything I'm saying. He can say I'm wrong or stupid but lying I am not.

 

[Rationalist1016]

You think we are, but what you really mean is you believe we are. There is nothing I see to support that belief. I personally have no problem with you being right about that, but I see no evidence of it. The very fact that you, who want to see this come about, are being driven more by your belief in it than in a rational examination of the evidence does not portend well for it.

I think we are seeing a rapid environmental change which is shifting us away from totalitarian regimes. Again, not because of any change in religion but in technology. Technology requires a higher level of education of the members of the society and that is going to result in greater freedoms. Those societies which can balance that freedom with cooperation are going to compete better. But this has nothing at all to do with whether any given individual is happy or full filled. If you have a better gene stock than I you will be more able to procreate. Sucks for me, but it improves the species. Mama Nature doesn't give a squat about me - only the species as a whole.

I'm not sure why you had to change the language in my response by changing "think" to "believe" and tell ME what I MEANT. But this is not a "belief" that I hold. Nor do I care if it is happening or not. It has no bearing on my position.
But, why I THINK it is happening is:
Growth of the Nonreligious | Pew Research Center's Religion & Public Life Project
New study says Internet could be why Americans are losing their religion - Salon.com
Americans and religion increasingly parting ways, new survey shows
Study: Young Americans Dumping Religion at Rapid Rate

So, you can see that my thinking that this is happening has nothing to do with my position. These studies are what I would point to as "evidence"

I do not care to discuss totalitarianism here. I brought it up to make a point, not to debate it's social "benefits". We can discuss that in another thread if you would like.

But we have tap danced away from what my original question is. And that is, how is having a society believe in ancient writings, that cannot be verified to be true & that contradict much of our known reality, be good for society?

Back to your original question then. I can't point to the exact benefit because there is nothing to compare it. All human societies have religion so there is no non-religious society we look at to see differences. If you accept the concept of evolution as valid, then I would say that is a pretty big clue that it is beneficial even if we don't know exactly why.

My own take on the why is that it is a counterpoint to government. It provides authority to the government and a level of stability government cannot provide. The top level of government is people and they tend to die on you. The top level of religion doesn't die.

I can agree with that. There is definitely SOMETHING to it. Otherwise, like you said, it would have died off. And in case I haven't made this clear, I am not interested in eliminating religion from the face of the earth. I just want it out of government and in turn, government stay out of it. I personally don't see the draw to it and want to understand the other side.
My take on it, is that it provides a feeling that there is something more to life. And I can understand THAT desire.

As for the "moron" thing. No need to apologize. Like you said, we all take our turn. I've had more than my share.
We tend to get caught up in trying to make our point and lose our tact sometimes.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Just think, guys, if JB was in charge of Christianity, we would all be Jews or Muslims or something.

 

[Derideo_Te]

Yes, because group guilt always works so well for you leftwing fascist when it comes time to start killing people.

Ironic given that JB's religion is based upon the group guilt that all men are born sinners!

 

[orogenicman]

So your argument here is what?

You want a theocracy?

I want theists to not take atheists so seriously and speak out against them more often.

Why? Because they don't believe what you believe? What are you afraid of?

Bump

Erm, no response? Interesting.

 

[sealybobo]

I'm not sure why you had to change the language in my response by changing "think" to "believe" and tell ME what I MEANT. But this is not a "belief" that I hold. Nor do I care if it is happening or not. It has no bearing on my position.
But, why I THINK it is happening is:
Growth of the Nonreligious | Pew Research Center's Religion & Public Life Project
New study says Internet could be why Americans are losing their religion - Salon.com
Americans and religion increasingly parting ways, new survey shows
Study: Young Americans Dumping Religion at Rapid Rate

So, you can see that my thinking that this is happening has nothing to do with my position. These studies are what I would point to as "evidence"

I do not care to discuss totalitarianism here. I brought it up to make a point, not to debate it's social "benefits". We can discuss that in another thread if you would like.

But we have tap danced away from what my original question is. And that is, how is having a society believe in ancient writings, that cannot be verified to be true & that contradict much of our known reality, be good for society?

Back to your original question then. I can't point to the exact benefit because there is nothing to compare it. All human societies have religion so there is no non-religious society we look at to see differences. If you accept the concept of evolution as valid, then I would say that is a pretty big clue that it is beneficial even if we don't know exactly why.

My own take on the why is that it is a counterpoint to government. It provides authority to the government and a level of stability government cannot provide. The top level of government is people and they tend to die on you. The top level of religion doesn't die.

I can agree with that. There is definitely SOMETHING to it. Otherwise, like you said, it would have died off. And in case I haven't made this clear, I am not interested in eliminating religion from the face of the earth. I just want it out of government and in turn, government stay out of it. I personally don't see the draw to it and want to understand the other side.
My take on it, is that it provides a feeling that there is something more to life. And I can understand THAT desire.

As for the "moron" thing. No need to apologize. Like you said, we all take our turn. I've had more than my share.
We tend to get caught up in trying to make our point and lose our tact sometimes.

My friend who converted me to atheism had to tell me "if you believe that then you are stupid or you can't be that bright if you believe that" And he pointed out to me me how I have absolutely no evidence to support this god character.

Now I had already left christianity and realized that all organized religions were bullshit but I still maintained a personal relationship with god. Then my buddy made me realize I was just talking to myself.

And it isn't that we aren't open to the idea of god. I would love to believe there is a god. I just don't. But I would love to think there was because like everyone else, we all think we're going to heaven, right? I just realize this is wishful thinking and I can not convince myself or pretend to believe when I don't.

So one day I tell my atheist friend that the most rational position is to be an agnostic atheist and he got mad at me and asked if he needed to go over it again with me, and then I pointed out that in fact he's being just as stupid as theists are when he says he is 100% sure there is no god. How does he know what's on the other side of a black hole? So he now agrees agnostic atheism is the most logical position to have.

From what we know and see, we don't believe there is a god, but could be wrong. Certainly when it comes to the organized cults we are full blown atheists but who knows beyond that? No one. That's who.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Are you rational to the point you simply ignore that you can't explain?

That's not objective empiricism, that is weak headed shallowness.

 

[Rationalist1016]

Back to your original question then. I can't point to the exact benefit because there is nothing to compare it. All human societies have religion so there is no non-religious society we look at to see differences. If you accept the concept of evolution as valid, then I would say that is a pretty big clue that it is beneficial even if we don't know exactly why.

My own take on the why is that it is a counterpoint to government. It provides authority to the government and a level of stability government cannot provide. The top level of government is people and they tend to die on you. The top level of religion doesn't die.

I can agree with that. There is definitely SOMETHING to it. Otherwise, like you said, it would have died off. And in case I haven't made this clear, I am not interested in eliminating religion from the face of the earth. I just want it out of government and in turn, government stay out of it. I personally don't see the draw to it and want to understand the other side.
My take on it, is that it provides a feeling that there is something more to life. And I can understand THAT desire.

As for the "moron" thing. No need to apologize. Like you said, we all take our turn. I've had more than my share.
We tend to get caught up in trying to make our point and lose our tact sometimes.

My friend who converted me to atheism had to tell me "if you believe that then you are stupid or you can't be that bright if you believe that" And he pointed out to me me how I have absolutely no evidence to support this god character.

Now I had already left christianity and realized that all organized religions were bullshit but I still maintained a personal relationship with god. Then my buddy made me realize I was just talking to myself.

And it isn't that we aren't open to the idea of god. I would love to believe there is a god. I just don't. But I would love to think there was because like everyone else, we all think we're going to heaven, right? I just realize this is wishful thinking and I can not convince myself or pretend to believe when I don't.

So one day I tell my atheist friend that the most rational position is to be an agnostic atheist and he got mad at me and asked if he needed to go over it again with me, and then I pointed out that in fact he's being just as stupid as theists are when he says he is 100% sure there is no god. How does he know what's on the other side of a black hole? So he now agrees agnostic atheism is the most logical position to have.

From what we know and see, we don't believe there is a god, but could be wrong. Certainly when it comes to the organized cults we are full blown atheists but who knows beyond that? No one. That's who.

That's exactly right! We just don't know. And I don't see the use of buying into any of it until there is "something" to buy into.
Like I said in a previous post, I do understand the desire or hope that there is more going on than we can experience with our senses. But until I can experience it, or have some evidence that it CAN be experienced, I am sticking with "I don't know".

 

[Gadawg73]

Worked with an atheist for many years. Taught me most all I know from 1979-late 80s in my field. Nam vet US Marines, 2 purple hearts, 20 years City of Savannah cop, 14 of them homicide investigator, 16 years licensed private detective Atlanta, Ga.
One of the most honest, ethical men I ever met and a man of the highest integrity.
You will not find a better man on this planet than him
And I am a life time Lutheran and a follower of Jesus.
Jesus taught us to focus our energies on HELPING our fellow man.

 

[PratchettFan]

What is an "atheist dogma." That God doesn't exist?

dog·ma noun \ˈdȯg-mə, ˈdäg-\

: a belief or set of beliefs that is accepted by the members of a group without being questioned or doubted

: a belief or set of beliefs that is taught by a religious organization

There is no "set of beliefs" that atheists accept, teach or adhere to without question or doubt.

Therefore there is no "atheist dogma."

You believe you lack beliefs because of a definition and you don't question it. That is dogma.

 

[PratchettFan]

What is an "atheist dogma." That God doesn't exist?

dog·ma noun \ˈdȯg-mə, ˈdäg-\

: a belief or set of beliefs that is accepted by the members of a group without being questioned or doubted

: a belief or set of beliefs that is taught by a religious organization

There is no "set of beliefs" that atheists accept, teach or adhere to without question or doubt.

Therefore there is no "atheist dogma."

Here is the Atheist bible Why there is no god

You certainly treat it that way.

 

[PratchettFan]

There is no "set of beliefs" that atheists accept, teach or adhere to without question or doubt.

Therefore there is no "atheist dogma."

If you believe that God does not exist without doubt or question, then yes you are a dogmatist.

That is not what I "believe". I clarified my position in an earlier post.

I am a spiritual atheist who has examined the "evidence" for a "creator" and found that it lacks all credibility. An omnipotent creator is a logical paradox.

The Laws of Physics account for the existence of an eternal universe. So there is no evidence and no logical reason for there to even be a need for any deity.

So I don't "believe that God does not exist". I know that there is no evidence that God exists and that is reality. I am comfortable living with reality in all respects. I have no need for any "dogma" or "creed" or anything else.

I know that I am loved by nearest and dearest and in turn I love them. That is reality and I am comfortable with that knowledge. I have no fear of death or concern about an "afterlife" either. What comprises my physical body will be recycled by the universe. What comprised my "spirit" will live on in the memories of my loved ones and be passed down to their descendants for as long as mankind survives as a species.

Beyond that the universe will continue to exist for all eternity and the part of it that came together to form me as an individual will end up in plants, rivers, fish, birds, insects and ultimately in some other parts of the universe. I am comfortable with that knowledge too.

None of the above fits the definition of "dogma" or "belief".

"I am a spiritual atheist who has examined the "evidence" for a "creator" and found that it lacks all credibility. An omnipotent creator is a logical paradox.

The Laws of Physics account for the existence of an eternal universe. So there is no evidence and no logical reason for there to even be a need for any deity."

All of that fits the definition of "belief" since you have no objective evidence for any of it. That you say you have no beliefs despite this simply because you define an atheist in a particular way is dogma.

 

[PratchettFan]

I think Pratchetfan is just another poser. His declarations that he is OK with the POTUIS being a bishop simultaneously is just horse shit or incredibly stupid, take your pick.

I am guessing he is just another atheist liar, posing as an agnostic.

Lol, do these lying atheist s ever have a shred of integrity?

Oh, I'm far worse than that. I actually believe in freedom.

Which apparently includes the freedom to lie and engage in fraudulent claims in discussions. You lie to simply amuse yourself, it appears to me.

I believe we are done. Have a nice life.

 

[Derideo_Te]

What is an "atheist dogma." That God doesn't exist?

dog·ma noun \ˈdȯg-mə, ˈdäg-\

: a belief or set of beliefs that is accepted by the members of a group without being questioned or doubted

: a belief or set of beliefs that is taught by a religious organization

There is no "set of beliefs" that atheists accept, teach or adhere to without question or doubt.

Therefore there is no "atheist dogma."

You believe you lack beliefs because of a definition and you don't question it. That is dogma.

We have already established that you lack the fundamental comprehension skills necessary to understand the definition of terminology used in this thread.

 

[Derideo_Te]

If you believe that God does not exist without doubt or question, then yes you are a dogmatist.

That is not what I "believe". I clarified my position in an earlier post.

I am a spiritual atheist who has examined the "evidence" for a "creator" and found that it lacks all credibility. An omnipotent creator is a logical paradox.

The Laws of Physics account for the existence of an eternal universe. So there is no evidence and no logical reason for there to even be a need for any deity.

So I don't "believe that God does not exist". I know that there is no evidence that God exists and that is reality. I am comfortable living with reality in all respects. I have no need for any "dogma" or "creed" or anything else.

I know that I am loved by nearest and dearest and in turn I love them. That is reality and I am comfortable with that knowledge. I have no fear of death or concern about an "afterlife" either. What comprises my physical body will be recycled by the universe. What comprised my "spirit" will live on in the memories of my loved ones and be passed down to their descendants for as long as mankind survives as a species.

Beyond that the universe will continue to exist for all eternity and the part of it that came together to form me as an individual will end up in plants, rivers, fish, birds, insects and ultimately in some other parts of the universe. I am comfortable with that knowledge too.

None of the above fits the definition of "dogma" or "belief".

"I am a spiritual atheist who has examined the "evidence" for a "creator" and found that it lacks all credibility. An omnipotent creator is a logical paradox.

The Laws of Physics account for the existence of an eternal universe. So there is no evidence and no logical reason for there to even be a need for any deity."

All of that fits the definition of "belief" since you have no objective evidence for any of it. That you say you have no beliefs despite this simply because you define an atheist in a particular way is dogma.

Once again your lack of reading comprehension does not support your out of context allegations.

I didn't "define an atheist in a particular way" at all. Instead I stated the existing objective evidence and facts and my logical deductions from that evidence and facts.

Your failure to comprehend does not equate to "beliefs".

 

[JakeStarkey]

The fact that one concludes to his own satisfaction that God does not exist is in fact a statement of dogma.

Atheism is indeed dogmatism.

 

[PratchettFan]

I'm not sure why you had to change the language in my response by changing "think" to "believe" and tell ME what I MEANT. But this is not a "belief" that I hold. Nor do I care if it is happening or not. It has no bearing on my position.
But, why I THINK it is happening is:
Growth of the Nonreligious | Pew Research Center's Religion & Public Life Project
New study says Internet could be why Americans are losing their religion - Salon.com
Americans and religion increasingly parting ways, new survey shows
Study: Young Americans Dumping Religion at Rapid Rate

So, you can see that my thinking that this is happening has nothing to do with my position. These studies are what I would point to as "evidence"

I do not care to discuss totalitarianism here. I brought it up to make a point, not to debate it's social "benefits". We can discuss that in another thread if you would like.

But we have tap danced away from what my original question is. And that is, how is having a society believe in ancient writings, that cannot be verified to be true & that contradict much of our known reality, be good for society?

Back to your original question then. I can't point to the exact benefit because there is nothing to compare it. All human societies have religion so there is no non-religious society we look at to see differences. If you accept the concept of evolution as valid, then I would say that is a pretty big clue that it is beneficial even if we don't know exactly why.

My own take on the why is that it is a counterpoint to government. It provides authority to the government and a level of stability government cannot provide. The top level of government is people and they tend to die on you. The top level of religion doesn't die.

I can agree with that. There is definitely SOMETHING to it. Otherwise, like you said, it would have died off. And in case I haven't made this clear, I am not interested in eliminating religion from the face of the earth. I just want it out of government and in turn, government stay out of it. I personally don't see the draw to it and want to understand the other side.
My take on it, is that it provides a feeling that there is something more to life. And I can understand THAT desire.

As for the "moron" thing. No need to apologize. Like you said, we all take our turn. I've had more than my share.
We tend to get caught up in trying to make our point and lose our tact sometimes.

I appreciate your understanding.

I agree it needs to stay out of government. The two systems work best in tandem but combining them usually spells disaster. I don't see it going away, though there will be people who are not attracted to it. I am one of them.

I think it goes beyond the afterlife thing. Human beings don't like blank spots. The words "I don't know" just makes us grind our teeth. The word "ignorant" is an insult. We fill up those blanks with all kinds of beliefs, both small and big. Religion does provide a lot of fillers and it seems obvious to me we need them.