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Attorney General Pam Bondi caves in to Judge Hinkle’s same sex marriage tyranny!

johnwk

Gold Member
May 24, 2009
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SEE: Federal ruling clears way for same-sex marriage in Florida, starting on Tuesday

”On the first day of the New Year, a federal judge issued a landmark ruling that finally cleared the way for same-sex marriage in every county in Florida.

And, significantly, Attorney General Pam Bondi — Florida’s chief legal opponent to gay marriage — said the state would not try to block county clerks from issuing licenses, beginning as early as 12:01 a.m. Tuesday.”


While Obama’s Attorney General ignores the rule of law as set out in our Federal Constitution, Florida’s Attorney General, Pam Bondi, puts on a good show and then folds when a despotic judge tells her to fold. Pam Bondi ought to learn from Obama and issue a “memorandum” that state employees who comply with Judge Hinkle’s ruling would be violating their oath to support and defend our Federal Constitution and be submitting to judicial tyranny. And why do I say Judge Hinkle is engaging in judicial tyranny?

Early in 2014 Hinkle wrote in an opinion that it is a fundamental right to marry. What Hinkle ignores is the “fundamental right” to “marry” within a legal sense applies to one male and one female in Florida. Keep in mind that words or terms used in legislation, being dependent upon approval by a legislature adopting the legislation, must be understood in the sense most obvious to the common understanding at the time of the legislation's adoption…! The legal definition of marriage in Florida has always been defined as a union between one man and one woman. And so, the fundamental right mentioned by Judge Hinkle, unless altered by a legislative act or constitutional amendment applies to one male and one female and not a same sex couple.

Hinkle goes on to make an astounding assertion: “A state may override a fundamental right through measures that are narrowly tailored to serve a compelling state interest.” This idea, that fundamental rights may be denied if there is a “compelling state interest” involved is traced to a despotic test invented by our Supreme Court and was unknown to our founding fathers. Since its creation it has been used by our courts to impose their whims and fancies under the rubric that a “compelling state interest” is or is not involved and is used by the court to totally ignore specific provisions spelled out in our Constitution and invent rights nowhere to be found in our Constitutions.

The idea that that constitutional guarantees and fundamental rights may not be enforced if a State can show denying the right "furthers some substantial state interest" is an absurdity and such a theory if allowed to stand would allow our judges and Justices to arbitrarily invent rights or negate every guaranteed right by simply saying it "furthers some substantial state interest"!

Judge Hinkle goes on to offer long winded pros and cons about the morality or immorality of marriage, and talks about same sex couples who want to be viewed as being “married”. But these arguments touted by Hinkle are totally irrelevant in a discussion concerning the rule of law and a State refusing to issue a marriage license to a same sex couple. The only issue at hand is whether or not doing so violates the State’s or Federal Constitution!

Hinkle incorrectly asserts: ”The right to marry is as fundamental for the plaintiffs in the cases at bar as for any other person wishing to enter a marriage or have it recognized.” Hinkle’s inaccuracy comes from the assertion that the legal definition of marriage is met when applied to a same sex couple [the plaintiffs]. But the truth is, It can only apply to each of the plaintiffs if they choose to marry a person of the opposite sex which then fulfills the legal definition of marriage, or if a State chooses to amend its Constitution and/or laws to accommodate a new definition of marriage. What the plaintiffs in this case are desirous of is something far different from ‘marriage” as the term has been understood in the State of Florida for hundreds of years and the Court is not free to change the definition of words to its own liking!

In regard to the Hinkle’s notion that the 14th Amendment’s legislative intent is to forbid a State from only issuing marriage licenses to couples consisting of one male and one female, and that such an idea is "discriminatory" and violates the equal protection of a State’s laws, that notion is totally without foundation and is a fabrication of the true intent and meaning of the 14th Amendment! And just what is the true intent and meaning of the 14th Amendment? It was summarized as follows by one of its supporters:

“Its whole effect is not to confer or regulate rights, but to require that whatever of these enumerated rights and obligations are imposed by State laws shall be for and upon all citizens alike without distinctions based on race or former condition of slavery…It permits the States to say that the wife may not testify, sue or contract. It makes no law as to this. Its whole effect is to require that whatever rights as to each of the enumerated civil (not political) matters the States may confer upon one race or color of the citizens shall be held by all races in equality…It does not prohibit you from discriminating between citizens of the same race, or of different races, as to what their rights to testify, to inherit &c. shall be. But if you do discriminate, it must not be on account of race, color or former conditions of slavery. That is all. If you permit a white man who is an infidel to testify, so you must a colored infidel. Self-evidently this is the whole effect of this first section. It secures-not to all citizens, but to all races as races who are citizens- equality of protection in those enumerated civil rights which the States may deem proper to confer upon any race.” ___ SEE: Rep. Shallabarger, Congressional Globe, 1866, page 1293

So, as it turns out, the 14th Amendment was not intended to forbid states from only issuing marriage licenses to couples consisting of one male and one female, nor intended to be a bar to every imaginable type of discrimination. And to allow charlatans and despots such as Judge Hinkle who use their office of public trust to erode our Constitution and supplant their whims and fancies as being within the meaning of our Constitution, is to submit to the very tyranny and despotism which our written Constitution was designed to protect us from. And this submission is what Pam Bondi is engaging in.

If Obama can issue a memorandum to forbid 5 million illegal aliens to face deportation and grant them other benefits which are only meant for legal immigrants, then Pam Bondi and the Governor of Florida should tell Hinkle to go pound sand, that his ruling violates the true intent and meaning of our Constitution, and the State of Florida will not submit to his judicial tyranny!



JWK


"The Constitution is the act of the people, speaking in their original character, and defining the permanent conditions of the social alliance; and there can be no doubt on the point with us, that every act of the legislative power contrary to the true intent and meaning of the Constitution, is absolutely null and void. ___ Chancellor James Kent, in his Commentaries on American Law (1858)
 
While Obama’s Attorney General ignores the rule of law as set out in our Federal Constitution, Florida’s Attorney General, Pam Bondi, puts on a good show and then folds when a despotic judge tells her to fold. Pam Bondi ought to learn from Obama and issue a “memorandum” that state employees who comply with Judge Hinkle’s ruling would be violating their oath to support and defend our Federal Constitution and be submitting to judicial tyranny. And why do I say Judge Hinkle is engaging in judicial tyranny?

Disagreeing with you isn't 'judicial tyranny'.

What Hinkle ignores is the “fundamental right” to “marry” within a legal sense applies to one male and one female in Florida.

Hinkle is a federal judge. His rulings apply to federally recognized rights. Not those 'in Florida'. Do you understand the difference between Federal and State citizenship? Concurrent jurisdiction? The 14th amendments prohibition against States violating the priveledges and immunities of US citizens?

If you don't, I'd be happy to discuss it with you.

This idea, that fundamental rights may be denied if there is a “compelling state interest” involved is traced to a despotic test invented by our Supreme Court and was unknown to our founding fathers.

Or something as common as a jail. Where the fundamental right to say, travel....is denied by the State because they have a compelling State interest in punishing the convicted through incarceration as a method of enforcing law.

And the founders most definitely had jails.

And since Hinkle ruled that no such compelling state interest exists in the instance of gay marriage, your point is irrelevant to the ruling. As the standard of law that you're railing against wasn't applied in Hinkle's ruling. Quite the opposite....Hinkle found that it didn't apply.

inkle’s inaccuracy comes from the assertion that the legal definition of marriage is met when applied to a same sex couple [the plaintiffs]. But the truth is, It can only apply to each of the plaintiffs if they choose to marry a person of the opposite sex which then fulfills the legal definition of marriage, or if a State chooses to amend its Constitution and/or laws to accommodate a new definition of marriage.

Back in reality, Hinkle's decision is based on the logic of Loving V. Virginia where the State laws outlawing interracial marriage were an abrogation of individual rights. With the restrictions in the law itself being unconstitutional. The legal definitions must also meet constitutional muster.

But then, I don't know what would be the point of discussing the law with you. As your argument is extra-legal. Where you are basing it on your personal interpretations of the constitution, ignoring any ruling you don't like. And while I'm sure such a perspective can be emotionally satisfying, it doesn't really have much to do with the outcome of any case. As no one is basing their legal decisions on your personal interpretation of the constitution.

I can cite the laws, court rulings and precedent that demonstrate you're laughably wrong. But if you're intent on ignoring the law, court rulings and precedent in favor of your own interpretations of the constitution, what would be the point?

So, as it turns out, the 14th Amendment was not intended to forbid states from only issuing marriage licenses to couples consisting of one male and one female, nor intended to be a bar to every imaginable type of discrimination.

The 14th amendment isn't limited to issues of race. Its limited to what it says. And what is stays is this:

No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

From Section 1 of the 14th Amendment of the United States Constitution

If a State does any of that, the federal courts can intervene. And have, repeatedly.
 
Hinkle's decision is based on the logic of Loving V. Virginia
While Obama’s Attorney General ignores the rule of law as set out in our Federal Constitution, Florida’s Attorney General, Pam Bondi, puts on a good show and then folds when a despotic judge tells her to fold. Pam Bondi ought to learn from Obama and issue a “memorandum” that state employees who comply with Judge Hinkle’s ruling would be violating their oath to support and defend our Federal Constitution and be submitting to judicial tyranny. And why do I say Judge Hinkle is engaging in judicial tyranny?

Disagreeing with you isn't 'judicial tyranny'.

What Hinkle ignores is the “fundamental right” to “marry” within a legal sense applies to one male and one female in Florida.

Hinkle is a federal judge. His rulings apply to federally recognized rights. Not those 'in Florida'. Do you understand the difference between Federal and State citizenship? Concurrent jurisdiction? The 14th amendments prohibition against States violating the priveledges and immunities of US citizens?

If you don't, I'd be happy to discuss it with you.

This idea, that fundamental rights may be denied if there is a “compelling state interest” involved is traced to a despotic test invented by our Supreme Court and was unknown to our founding fathers.

Or something as common as a jail. Where the fundamental right to say, travel....is denied by the State because they have a compelling State interest in punishing the convicted through incarceration as a method of enforcing law.

And the founders most definitely had jails.

And since Hinkle ruled that no such compelling state interest exists in the instance of gay marriage, your point is irrelevant to the ruling. As the standard of law that you're railing against wasn't applied in Hinkle's ruling. Quite the opposite....Hinkle found that it didn't apply.

inkle’s inaccuracy comes from the assertion that the legal definition of marriage is met when applied to a same sex couple [the plaintiffs]. But the truth is, It can only apply to each of the plaintiffs if they choose to marry a person of the opposite sex which then fulfills the legal definition of marriage, or if a State chooses to amend its Constitution and/or laws to accommodate a new definition of marriage.

Back in reality, Hinkle's decision is based on the logic of Loving V. Virginia where the State laws outlawing interracial marriage were an abrogation of individual rights. With the restrictions in the law itself being unconstitutional. The legal definitions must also meet constitutional muster.

But then, I don't know what would be the point of discussing the law with you. As your argument is extra-legal. Where you are basing it on your personal interpretations of the constitution, ignoring any ruling you don't like. And while I'm sure such a perspective can be emotionally satisfying, it doesn't really have much to do with the outcome of any case. As no one is basing their legal decisions on your personal interpretation of the constitution.

I can cite the laws, court rulings and precedent that demonstrate you're laughably wrong. But if you're intent on ignoring the law, court rulings and precedent in favor of your own interpretations of the constitution, what would be the point?

So, as it turns out, the 14th Amendment was not intended to forbid states from only issuing marriage licenses to couples consisting of one male and one female, nor intended to be a bar to every imaginable type of discrimination.

The 14th amendment isn't limited to issues of race. Its limited to what it says. And what is stays is this:

No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

From Section 1 of the 14th Amendment of the United States Constitution

If a State does any of that, the federal courts can intervene. And have, repeatedly.
 
Back in reality, Hinkle's decision is based on the logic of Loving V. Virginia ....

The case you mention had nothing to do with same sex couples being married. It was about a state law which made a distinction based upon race, which the 14th Amendment’s legislative intent forbid! Does that little fact help you? In other words, the case has nothing to do with same sex marriage.

JWK
 
Back in reality, Hinkle's decision is based on the logic of Loving V. Virginia ....

The case you mention had nothing to do with same sex couples being married. It was about a state law which made a distinction based upon race, which the 14th Amendment’s legislative intent forbid! Does that little fact help you? In other words, the case has nothing to do with same sex marriage.

JWK

Says you. Per the USSC and the Hinkle ruling, its an explicit example of the Federal judiciary's authority to hold State marriage laws to the constitution. And overturn State marriage laws if they violate rights under the constitution.

With both the USSC in the Windsor ruling and Hinkle in his August 2014 ruling explicitly citing Loving as just such an example. You told us what you thought the basis of Hinkle's ruling was. I corrected you. Hinkle used the reasoning of Loving V. Virignia....when you fallaciously claimed that Hinkle asserted that the legal definition came from the plaintiffs.

You were factually incorrect.

If you agree or disagree with Loving or its application is irrelevant to the fact that it is the basis of Hinkle's reasoning. And your assertions otherwise were inaccurate.
 
Imagine how silly you are all going to look in 20 years.
Imagine how silly you're going to look standing before God.

Well... I guess in your case, it'll be more like burning in hell.

:rolleyes:

Seriously. Its one of the reasons that gay marriage opponents are having such a hard time in court. As 'God Hates Fags!' may be the motivation for many of them. But its not an argument that can be used in court.

So they're left with half assed second tier legal arguments that are easily refuted and casually specious.
 
So, as it turns out, the 14th Amendment was not intended to forbid states from only issuing marriage licenses to couples consisting of one male and one female, nor intended to be a bar to every imaginable type of discrimination.
The 14th amendment isn't limited to issues of race. Its limited to what it says. And what is stays is this:
No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.
From Section 1 of the 14th Amendment of the United States Constitution
If a State does any of that, the federal courts can intervene. And have, repeatedly.
There is nothing mentioned in what you cite from the 14th Amendment prohibiting a State to make distinctions based upon sex when issuing a marriage license. That notion is an invention of our Supreme Court and particularly Justice Ginsburg who never established her notion as fact.

For example, in delivering the Court’s opinion in the Virginia Military Institute (VMI) case, decided June 26, 1996, which commanded the Institute to accept women by citing the 14th Amendment as forbidding sex discrimination, Ginsburg pointed to a number of “tests” invented by the Court unknown to our founding fathers and asserted a party seeking to uphold government action making a distinction based upon sex must establish an "exceedingly persuasive justification" In addition, Ginsburg noted, “The justification must be genuine, not hypothesized or invented post hoc in response to litigation. And it must not rely on overbroad generalizations about the different talents, capacities, or preferences of males and females.”

But the fact remains, Ginsburg, in delivering the opinion, never established that under the 14th Amendment the people of America decided to prohibit distinctions based upon “sex” in addition to their intentional prohibition against state legislation based upon “race and color”! And, the fact remains, Justice Ginsburg couldn’t establish this constitutional prohibition (sex discrimination) because time and again during the debates which framed the 14th Amendment the intended prohibition against discrimination was identified as being limited to discrimination based upon “race, color, or former condition of slavery”, and only intended to apply in a very narrow area and protect the inalienable right of Blacks: “to make and enforce contracts, to sue...to inherit, purchase...property as was then enjoyed by white citizens. “Congress did not assume...to adjust what may be called the social rights of men...but only to declare and vindicate these fundamental rights.”___ see the Civil Rights Cases, 109 U.S. 3,22 (1883)

The argument that the wording in the 14th Amendment: (a)“all persons”, (b)"No State shall make any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of United States.", (c) "[N]or deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws", as being evidence the 14th Amendment was intended to forbid distinctions based upon sex, or intended to be a universal rule to bar every imaginable type of discrimination, such as in Martin vs. PGA Tour and also include discrimination based upon sex, falls flat on its face when reading the words of next Amendment to the Constitution! This Amendment (the 15th) prohibits a new type of discrimination not covered by the 14th Amendment! It prohibits discrimination, or to be more accurate, prohibits the right of voting to be denied or abridged on account of “race, color, or previous condition of servitude.” The intent of the 15th Amendment clearly being to enlarge the intended prohibition on state legislated race based discrimination mentioned in the 14th Amendment, and enlarging it to include the prohibition at the voting booth ---forbidding discrimination at the voting booth to be based upon “race, color, or previous condition of servitude“, while gender, and in particularly females, were not yet included in the protection.

The argument that the 14th Amendment prohibits state discrimination based upon gender, becomes even weaker when reading the 19th Amendment which specifically forbids a new kind of discrimination. In this Amendment, the People of America decide to forbid gender discrimination [the discrimination mentioned by Ginsburg] but only extend the prohibition with respect to the right to vote being “denied or abridged” on account of “sex”

If the 14th Amendment prohibited every kind of discrimination, including discrimination based upon sex as Ginsburg alleged in the VMI Case, then why were these subsequent Amendments added to the Constitution after the adoption of the 14th Amendment?


Finally, why would there have been a proposed and so-call equal rights amendment attempted to be added to the Constitution of the United States in the 1980’s to prohibit sex discrimination but which never received the required number of ratifying States, if the 14th Amendment already prohibited discrimination based upon sex as Ginsburg alleges?

Bottom line is, our SC, including Justice Ginsburg, is acting in rebellion to our written Constitution and the documented intentions and beliefs under which it was adopted. Indeed, our Supreme Court is in fact "legislating from the bench" so as to impose its own visions and court ordered social reforms using a variety of tests which switch the subject of a law’s constitutionality, to a question of the lawmakers wisdom and what the court arbitrarily decides is “reasonable“, which, as we have seen over the years reflects what progressives on the Court arbitrarily fancy as social justice, and not the rule of law as defined and limited in our Constitution.

In fact, a questioned law to pass Ginsburg’s test, must have an "exceedingly persuasive justification" and “The justification must be genuine, not hypothesized or invented post hoc in response to litigation”, regardless of whether or not the law is within the four corners of our Constitution which no longer appears to be an important factor to Ginsburg and her progressive friends on the Court.


JWK

Those who reject abiding by the intentions and beliefs under which our Constitution was agree to, as those intentions and beliefs may be documented from historical records, wish to remove the anchor and rudder of our constitutional system so they may then be free to “interpret” the Constitution to mean whatever they wish it to mean.
 
Get used to it. Once a nation starts down the road of depravity it doesn't stop until the end.
 
There is nothing mentioned in what you cite from the 14th Amendment prohibiting a State to make distinctions based upon sex when issuing a marriage license. That notion is an invention of our Supreme Court and particularly Justice Ginsburg who never established her notion as fact.

But there are portions that mandate that a State not violate the privileges and immunities of US citizens. And a part that mandates that States must provide equal protection under the law for all of its citizens.

Marriage is a fundamental right. And creating a law that restricts access to that right is an abrogation of the privileges and immuntites of US citizens. If there is a compelling state interest and a very valid reason, such a scheme may be permissible.

But the States have neither in the case of gay marriage. And as was established nearly 50 years ago in Loving V. Virginia, State marriage laws that abrogate constitutional protections are invalid.

But the fact remains, Ginsburg, in delivering the opinion, never established that under the 14th Amendment the people of America decided to prohibit distinctions based upon “sex” in addition to their intentional prohibition against state legislation based upon “race and color”!

As was mentioned earlier, the 14th amendment is limited to what it says:

No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

From Section 1 of the 14th Amendment of the United States Constitution

If a State does any of the above, they have violated the constitution. The 14th amendment doesn't list the 'privileges and immunities' anymore than it lists the laws under which there must be equal protection. It simply defines a standard: States can't violate privileges and immunities. And laws must be applied equally.

Rendering your bizarre insistence that a particular privileges or immunity must be explicitly articulated in the 14th in order to be applied invalid and illogical.

Worse, even your standards are inconsistent claptrap. As you cited the USSC's Civil Rights Cases from (1883)....demonstrating elegnantly that you recognize the authority of USSC decisions in establishing precident. And then ignore the ruling Ginsberg offered, despite it being the majority ruling of.....wait for it.....wait...for...it...

The USSC! The very body that you just used as your source of authority. If the USSC is authoritative, then Ginsburg's majority ruling is authoritative. And if it isn't, then your 1883 ruling is similarly lacking in authority. But the USSC isn't authoritative when its convenient to your argument and then suddenly lacking in authority when it doesn't.

Also, please stop spamming the same block post you've been splattering on boards all across the internet going back at least half a decade.

But the fact remains, Ginsburg, in delivering the opinion, never established that under the 14th Amendment the people of America decided to prohibit distinctions based upon gender in addition to their intentional prohibition against state legislation based upon “race and color”!

john w k,
2014

Florida marriage law struck down judge defies rule of law - Page 3

And again...

But the fact remains, Ginsburg, in delivering the opinion, never established that under the 14th Amendment the people of America decided to prohibit distinctions based upon gender in addition to their intentional prohibition against state legislation based upon “race and color”!

john w k,
2011

John Banzhaf I will address your silly comment about sex discrimination.

And again....

But the fact remains, Ginsburg, in delivering the opinion, never established that under the 14th Amendment the people of America decided to prohibit distinctions based upon gender in addition to their intentional prohibition against state legislation based upon “race and color”!

john w k,
2009
Is Alan Gura helping gun grabbers with 2nd Amendment case As Maine Goes

And again....

But the fact remains, Ginsburg, in delivering the opinion, never established that under the 14th Amendment the people of America decided to prohibit distinctions based upon gender in addition to their intentional prohibition against state legislation based upon “race and color”!

john w k,
2009
Judicial tyranny the ACLU and Justice Ginsburg 8217 s inventions exposed - National World News - Baltimore Sun Talk Forums

And again....

But the fact remains, Ginsburg, in delivering the opinion, never established that under the 14th Amendment the people of America decided to prohibit distinctions based upon gender in addition to their intentional prohibition against state legislation based upon “race and color”!

john w k,
2009

American Constitutional Research Service Judicial tyranny the ACLU and Justice Ginsburg s inventions exposed

Its the exact same blog post from 2009, word for word.....posted over and over and over again. Please stop spamming us.
 
Imagine how silly you are all going to look in 20 years.
Imagine how silly you're going to look standing before God.

Well... I guess in your case, it'll be more like burning in hell.
Jesus hates fags? Nope, Jesus probably was one dummy.

I was wondering if Jesus read the Constitution.

For that matter, what did Jesus or his old man ever say about marriage equality?
 
Imagine how silly you are all going to look in 20 years.
Imagine how silly you're going to look standing before God.

Well... I guess in your case, it'll be more like burning in hell.
Jesus hates fags? Nope, Jesus probably was one dummy.

I was wondering if Jesus read the Constitution.

For that matter, what did Jesus or his old man ever say about marriage equality?

If I'm not mistaken there weren't even church marriages back then.
 
There is nothing mentioned in what you cite from the 14th Amendment prohibiting a State to make distinctions based upon sex when issuing a marriage license. That notion is an invention of our Supreme Court and particularly Justice Ginsburg who never established her notion as fact.

But there are portions that mandate that a State not violate the privileges and immunities of US citizens. And a part that mandates that States must provide equal protection under the law for all of its citizens.
.


You are repeating yourself and offering opinions not based upon the text and legislative intent of our Constitution.

Privileges are established as each state sees fit, so long as there are no distinctions based upon race as intended to be prohibited under the 14th Amendment. And, whatever a state's laws are, no "person" within a state's jurisdiction, may be denied the equal protection of those laws.

Where, in the text our federal Constitution, or its documented legislative intent, are the states prohibited from making distinctions based upon sex?

JWK
 
Bottom line is the decision has been made, and all the whining in the world won't change it. Just add this to the long list of things the right wing fought for and lost. If I were you, I'd be spending time whining about immigration reform. You'll loose that one too, but at least that one isn't completely over yet.
 

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