Barstow cops are fucked!

[MikeK]

Unions were important way back in the early 20th century when sleazy democrats like FDR were giving the Country away to their rich industrial supporters but when unions got their sticky fingers into the public sector with collective bargaining that bankrupted small municipalities the education system took a nose dive.Teachers who used to care about education became virtual factory workers punching a clock and cranking out generations of ignorant kids.

You are quite correct in criticizing the Teachers' unions, along with a few others, and I would not endeavor to suggest that all unions are flawless because they aren't. But you evidently have been conditioned to accentuate the negative while wholly ignoring the positive where unions are concerned.

If you are an employer your resentment of unions is understandable. But if you are or have been an employee, where do you think the 40-hour work-week, a paid vacation, sick leave, and various other benefits you probably take for granted came from? The simple fact is, while some unions have really big warts that should be removed, the union movement is one of the best things that ever happened to the ordinary American citizen.

As for your hugely mistaken impression of FDR, if he was so inclined to support the rich why do you suppose he arranged to have a 97% income tax imposed on them? And why did he use that money to create the WPA and CCC make-work programs which served as the platform from which the Great American Middle Class took its first step? One of those programs served to put my father to work and rescue our family from homeless despair during the Great Depression.

It is truly unfortunate that someone as intelligent as you obviously are has allowed yourself to be brainwashed by interests that serve the super-rich ruling class. That is unless you happen to be one of them and your purpose here is to disseminate propaganda.

 

[Steinlight]

I doubt that it is true the police can indefinitely detain you without charges for life, and that isn't happening here.

I frankly don't know if that's true or not. But so many changes in Law have taken place in recent years that I hesitate to rely on what I know was true back in the 50s and 60s. Things I see and hear about have convinced me that a virtual web of seemingly minor impositions in the Criminal Law has been created and may operate as an inescapable trap which a motivated prosecutor can use to ensnare the most pristine individual.

Consider the Patriot Act, for one example, which indirectly but quite clearly says, "Fuck the Constutition!"

I definitely don't agree with Patriot Act or NDAA, but to compare the US to Nazi Germany, and in the context of this video, is pretty asinine and in my opinion devalues legitimate arguments against these constitutional overreaches.

 

[MikeK]

I definitely don't agree with Patriot Act or NDAA, but to compare the US to Nazi Germany, and in the context of this video, is pretty asinine and in my opinion devalues legitimate arguments against these constitutional overreaches.

I didn't compare the U.S. to Nazi Germany. But I did say we are heading in the wrong direction.

The thing to keep a watchful eye on is the political scene during and immediately after a severe economic decline, such as Bush brought about and, luckily, was forced to turn over to a Liberal like Obama. A corrupt, elitist sonofabitch like G.W. Bush could easily transform an economic disaster into a political opportunity by turning one segment of the population against another and establishing a power core. Where it goes from there depends on who is making the new rules.

 

[Steinlight]

I definitely don't agree with Patriot Act or NDAA, but to compare the US to Nazi Germany, and in the context of this video, is pretty asinine and in my opinion devalues legitimate arguments against these constitutional overreaches.

I didn't compare the U.S. to Nazi Germany. But I did say we are heading in the wrong direction.

The thing to keep a watchful eye on is the political scene during and immediately after a severe economic decline, such as Bush brought about and, luckily, was forced to turn over to a Liberal like Obama. A corrupt, elitist sonofabitch like G.W. Bush could easily transform an economic disaster into a political opportunity by turning one segment of the population against another and establishing a power core. Where it goes from there depends on who is making the new rules.

I am not talking about you, I am talking about the OP making the reference to Nazi Germany.

I don't see how we are lucky to have Obama, who has only magnified the problems left by the Bush Administration. The Syrians and Libyans, who are now in violent civil war due to the policy of the Obama administration to aid "moderate" rebels, would probably disagree with your assessment.

 

[EverCurious]

But if you are or have been an employee, where do you think the 40-hour work-week, a paid vacation, sick leave, and various other benefits you probably take for granted came from? The simple fact is, while some unions have really big warts that should be removed, the union movement is one of the best things that ever happened to the ordinary American citizen.

Unions are like a political movement that forgot to disappear when they got what they wanted... We now have laws that support what the "good" unions /used/ to fight for.

Today unions are just as greedy and unreasonable as the bad companies they sprung up to fight. They force decent businesses into impossible financial positions that are completely unsustainable, and won't let the business fire anyone, lower wages, or do anything about the fiscal problems the business has except go bankrupt (which they also try to stop.) That is ultimately just as bad for the American worker as lacking those "benefits" was when Unions were needed.

 

[saintmichaeldefendthem]

Nothing short of a Constitutional Convention can nullify the Bill of Rights.

One would like to think so. And for the record, you are right. But ever since Reagan politicized the DOJ, the Constitution is not being enforced. And ever since Bush pushed through the Patriot and Military Commissions Act's, they can take anyone off the street, without charges, and detain them indefinitely, for the rest of their lives.

Wow! How neatly you cut out all Democrat involvement in the progressive tyranny of the state. I'd be sad for you if I thought you were deceived, but you self delude, so no pity from me.

 

[RoshawnMarkwees]

But you're the one bitching about cops. Move to Baltimore.

You're the one acting like the people of Weimar, why don't you move there?

Just the opposite. You speak as though you'd thrive in today's Baltimore.

 

[saintmichaeldefendthem]

For example, I watch the tv "ride-along" reality documentary, COPS, as much as I can. I am frequently amazed to see a cop pull someone over, ask for ID, then ask where they are going and where have they been, if they have anything illegal in the car or on their person, then ask them to get out of the car, pat them down and ask if they can search the car.

You do not have to answer those questions or consent to a search.

You're quite right. But if you watch COPS, which I strongly recommend, you will see many examples of this kind of oppressive disregard for the Fourth Amendment -- and it's perfectly lawful. Unfortunately, it is clear that most Americans don't know they have a right to refuse to comply.

Again, if you don't watch COPS I recommend you do.

I used to watch cops for entertainment when I was a kid. Now I can't watch that show without screaming at the TV. I'd say that's a good political evolution. I see it too. It especially pissed me off when a cop informed a suspect that their car now belonged to their sheriff's department. Asset forfeiture works against the citizen so efficiently it can be assumed right on the streets by any cop.

 

[MikeK]

Watching COPS can be very educational if one is interested in observing the orientation and the typical forms of police behavior of police in various parts of America. Otherwise it can be rather repetitious

 

[saintmichaeldefendthem]

I stopped a black kid in a car once in Atlanta. I saw he was sweating profusely and had a little bit of blood running down his face. I asked him where he was coming from. Maybe he was in a fight. Maybe he was a victim...or suspect...in a violent robbery. It was a bad neighborhood afterall.

His answer? Football practice. He had a busted nose from it. And was sweaty. Ah. Perfect sense.

Had he said "None of your damn business" I would've been concerned. And probably investigated longer.

By the way...he went on to play for the University of Georgia and a short stint in the NFL.

Why did you stop him in the first place?

And if he had just committed a felonious assault and was smart enough to tell you he was playing football, how would you know the difference? Unless you've decided you have an unlimited right to impose yourself into his private affairs by exhaustively interrogating him.

And how did you know so much about his future successes? Do you keep in touch with all the sweaty Blacks you stop?

Technically speaking, if he'd said, "None of your damn business," he would have been quite right. Because, as you know, if you'd arrested him and it was determined he'd been playing football and just didn't feel like explaining the details of his private life to you, I think a $10,000 false arrest award would have been appropriate.

Don't you?

It's easy to judge cops when you've never been one. You've never had to wonder several times a week if the person you're dealing with is dangerous or if you were going to make it home alive. You're an asshole cop hater who throws popcorn having no idea or appreciation for what it takes to give you a safe society; that when you are afraid and call 911, the cops will come. Every time.

There's an old Indian proverb about walking in another man's moccasins. I suggest you give it a try.

 

[Jackson]

The cop was investigating a potential crime.

Ok, what was the crime?

He said it on the tape. Road Rage.

 

[saintmichaeldefendthem]

Watching COPS can be very educational if one is interested in observing the orientation and the typical forms of police behavior of police in various parts of America. Otherwise it can be rather repetitious

It isn't typical. We did some Super Troopers shit when I was a cop, but nothing like I see other cops doing on that show. Assuming all cops are the same is low brow, even for you.

 

[MikeK]

Unions are like a political movement that forgot to disappear when they got what they wanted... We now have laws that support what the "good" unions /used/ to fight for.

Right now, in spite of the dramatic reduction in union activity in recent years, there is sufficient influence remaining in the union movement to maintain the salary and benefit status quo. This is because the bosses in non-union businesses do not want the existing unions encroaching on them.

But if the union movement is successfully defeated we will see a rapid decline and the ultimate end of the American Middle Class and a return to the Gilded Age social order.

Today unions are just as greedy and unreason
able as the bad companies they sprung up to fight. They force decent businesses into impossible financial positions that are completely unsustainable, and won't let the business fire anyone, lower wages, or do anything about the fiscal problems the business has except go bankrupt (which they also try to stop.) That is ultimately just as bad for the American worker as lacking those "benefits" was when Unions were needed.

My son-in-law started working for UPS sorting packages on the 12-8 shift. Today he drives an eighteen-wheeler on 4-12 airport runs. He loves the job, which has given him a beautiful house on Long Island. My daughter has her own car and their kids are very well cared for. UPS is totally Teamsters, its members are fiercely loyal, and UPS is one of the most lucrative businesses in America.

And there are many other highly successful, fully unionized corporations and companies. So you really shouldn't allow yourself to be deceived about the value and necessity of unions.

In case you (or others) are interested in learning the facts, here is a list of good union books I highly recommend to you:

There is Power in a Union: The Epic Story of Labor in America
by Philip Dray

Triangle: The Fire That Changed America
by David von Drehle

Growing Up in Coal Country
by Susan Campbell Bartoletti

Trade Unions Under Capitalism
by Tom Clarke

Sweat and Blood: A History of U.S. Labor Unions
by Gloria Skurzynski

Power and Privilege: Labor Unions in America
by Morgan O. Reynolds

Why Unions Matter
by Michael D. Yates

Strike: Mother Jones and the Colorado Coal Field War
by Lois Ruby

Which Side Are You On?: The Story of a Song
by George Ella Lyon

 

[Billo_Really]

I definitely don't agree with Patriot Act or NDAA, but to compare the US to Nazi Germany, and in the context of this video, is pretty asinine and in my opinion devalues legitimate arguments against these constitutional overreaches.

Look, if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck...

There are a lot of similarities between what is going on in this country and what went on in Nazi Germany during the '30's.

Germany scapegoated an entire population of people (Jews), as the cause of all the problems in their country.
We scapegoat an entire population of people (Muslims), as the cause of all of ours.

Germany's leaders used a national tragedy (Reichstag Fire), to whip up support to invade a sovereign nation (Poland).
Our leaders used a national tragedy (9/11), to whip up support to invade two sovereign nations (Afghanistan and Iraq)

Germany launched an un-provoked war of aggression (Poland).
We launched an un-provoked war of aggression (Afghanistan and Iraq).

Average Germans accepted any violence against the Jews, no matter how horrific it might have been.
We accept any violence against Muslims and are not outraged by it.​

We currently have more people locked up than any country in the history of the earth. More than Stalin's Russia. More than Hitler's Germany. More than Hussein's Iraq.

That video is a microcosm of what is going on in this country. And in order to stop it, we have to become a better society.

 

[Billo_Really]

Just the opposite.

"Just the opposite."

Are you one crack? You're defending a police state where cops can do whatever the fuck they please. That's not the opposite of Weimar!

You speak as though you'd thrive in today's Baltimore.

Why is that?

BTW, the Baltimore cops started all that shit by not letting the students go home.

 

[Steinlight]

I definitely don't agree with Patriot Act or NDAA, but to compare the US to Nazi Germany, and in the context of this video, is pretty asinine and in my opinion devalues legitimate arguments against these constitutional overreaches.

Look, if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck...

There are a lot of similarities between what is going on in this country and what went on in Nazi Germany during the '30's.

Germany scapegoated an entire population of people (Jews), as the cause of all the problems in their country.
We scapegoat an entire population of people (Muslims), as the cause of all of ours.

Germany's leaders used a national tragedy (Reichstag Fire), to whip up support to invade a sovereign nation (Poland).
Our leaders used a national tragedy (9/11), to whip up support to invade two sovereign nations (Afghanistan and Iraq)

Germany launched an un-provoked war of aggression (Poland).
We launched an un-provoked war of aggression (Afghanistan and Iraq).

Average Germans accepted any violence against the Jews, no matter how horrific it might have been.
We accept any violence against Muslims and are not outraged by it.​

We currently have more people locked up than any country in the history of the earth. More than Stalin's Russia. More than Hitler's Germany. More than Hussein's Iraq.

That video is a microcosm of what is going on in this country. And in order to stop it, we have to become a better society.

Both Stalin and Hitler had ten of millions in their camps and tens of millions died, how many are in American prisons again?

Your comparison is ridiculous and insensitive to the suffering of people in both the USSR and Nazi Germany.

 

[Steinlight]

Honestly, you are a sheltered dipshit that has never truly suffered in your life. Otherwise you wouldn't be saying asinine things like that the US is like Nazi Germany, and having the irony escape you that in such a totalitarian society you would be arrested for what you are saying.

 

[Jarlaxle]

A certified lunatic.

You have some corny Bette Midler signature, but are calling me a lunatic?

No, he has a signature from a Duke Ellington song. Shut your cake flap, people won't realize how stupid you are quite as quickly.

 

[Jarlaxle]

I know I said I was out, but I'm glad to see the healthy debate on this subject!

Yes, a Cop can ASK for ID but that doesn't mean you have to give it. You only have to Identify yourself when Arrested.

Merely failing to ID when a Cop asks is NOT AN ARRESTABLE OFFENSE BY ITSELF!

When a Cop asks for your ID ask him "Officer, can my I D be used against me in a Court of Law?"

If the Officer knows the Law he'll say "Yes". You then invoke your 5th Amendment Rights.

Asking for ID is reasonable. Asking a driver where he is going and where he has been is not. But if you watch the tv "ride-along" documentary, COPS, you will see that it is commonly done by police all over America.

Surprisingly, the majority of subjects do not hesitate to go along with what should be but is not an illegal line of questioning. And when they do go along the cop moves to the next step which is to tell them to step out of the car, where he pats them down.

While it is lawful for the subjects of these encroachments to refuse, it is not unlawful for the police to impose on them. But it should be -- because too many citizens are either ignorant of their Fourth Amendment rights or, as it clearly seems, they are simply too intimidated by police to refuse. And if you watch COPS it will become clear that many law-abiding citizens are indeed intimidated by police.

Most important thing to remember: "This interaction is being recorded and saved off-site in real time."

 

[saintmichaeldefendthem]

A certified lunatic.

You have some corny Bette Midler signature, but are calling me a lunatic?

No, he has a signature from a Duke Ellington song. Shut your cake flap, people won't realize how stupid you are quite as quickly.

I wasn't planning on alleviating her (?) ignorance on that but I did think it was hilarious that she thought wind-beneath-my-wings was the originator of the 1931 hit. Even Frank Sinatra didn't have a singing career spanning that many decades. But you know how Leftists are with math.