Boom!!!! Judge in Manafort case says Mueller only wants to hurt Trump

[JakeStarkey]

Mueller's ethical behavior is up to the Court to weigh.

 

[Hutch Starskey]

The memo remit allows Mueller to go where the evidence goes.

You need to read the whole transcript of the exchange between the Judge and SC lawyer. Ellis was smoking the shit out of them. That memo was produced only after the raid. You know like "OMG I need a memo for the raid Ron!!!!!!!".

By the way that raid was truly Stasi. That's police state shit right there Jake.

Bullshit. It says clearly that Mueller had this authority since his appointment.

His authority allows him to go anywhere he pleases.................which is what he's doing.......

Hey pal................the Judge called their asses out on it............which part of decade old accusations apply to Russia ..............hmmmmm

NONE.

What part of a land deal does a blowjob apply to?

 

[westwall]

Mueller's ethical behavior is up to the Court to weight.

Indeed it is, and in TWO separate occasions his ethical behavior has been found lacking. Costing we the taxpayers a combined 106 MILLION dollars. That's one fine scumbag you've hitched your wagon to.

 

[eagle1462010]

Mueller's ethical behavior is up to the Court to weight.

The Court weighs the law............scope and legality of the charges..............

He has questioned the scope.........and requested a sealed file of that from the Prosecution.

He has questioned why many of the charges were in his court and not in a lesser court.

He has questioned why accusations that were over a decade before were in his court.

He easily saw what was going on and blasted the prosecution for it.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Then the judge will have to decide that consideration of ethics.

However, considering that we are now in May of 2018, years after the anthrax case, that issue is probably a non-starter.

The judge is correct, I think, the Mueller wants to convict ("hurt" according to the Judge) Trump by getting at Manafort.

 

[eagle1462010]

The memo remit allows Mueller to go where the evidence goes.

You need to read the whole transcript of the exchange between the Judge and SC lawyer. Ellis was smoking the shit out of them. That memo was produced only after the raid. You know like "OMG I need a memo for the raid Ron!!!!!!!".

By the way that raid was truly Stasi. That's police state shit right there Jake.

Bullshit. It says clearly that Mueller had this authority since his appointment.

His authority allows him to go anywhere he pleases.................which is what he's doing.......

Hey pal................the Judge called their asses out on it............which part of decade old accusations apply to Russia ..............hmmmmm

NONE.

What part of a land deal does a blowjob apply to?

 

[westwall]

Then the judge will have to decide that consideration of ethics.

However, considering that we are now in May of 2018, years after the anthrax case, that issue is probably a non-starter.

The judge is correct, I think, the Mueller wants to convict ("hurt" according to the Judge) Trump by getting at Manafort.

No, it isn't. I guarantee you that the judge in the manofort case has looked at muellers behavior in the prior case and that is why he is asking for ALL the details. Not just accepting the spoonfed details that mueller wishes him to receive.

 

[Hutch Starskey]

Beholden? The court has no authority to tell the Deputy AG how to conduct investigations.

He made the statement of why these cases aren't in the lower courts and not his............He also questioned the authority under the special council. Just as he questioned cases over a decade old that have no bearing on their scope of the special council........

He made the statement of why these cases aren't in the lower courts and not his............He also questioned the authority under the special council. Just as he questioned cases over a decade old that have no bearing on their scope of the special council........

Damn, dude. I've posted a link on this like three freaking times now.
Read it!

Rosenstein decides the scope. Not the judge.
Rosenstein gave Mueller the aurhority to investigate and indict Manafort on his Ukraine dealings. That is what was in question in the motion filed by the defense.

This blows that up.

Prosecutors: Rosenstein gave Mueller OK to probe, indict Manafort

"However, Mueller's team submitted a previously undisclosed memo to a federal court in Washington showing that a few months after Mueller was appointed last May, Rosenstein gave him explicit authority to target Manafort over the financial aspects of his lobbying work for the Ukrainian government — in addition to allegations he was linked to Russian interference in the 2016 election.

"The May 17, 2017 [appointment] order was worded categorically in order to permit its release without confirming specific investigations involving specific individuals," Rosenstein wrote in the Aug. 2, 2017 memo. "The following allegations were within the scope of the Investigation at the time of your appointment and are within the scope of the Order: ... Allegations that Paul Manafort: Committed a crime or crimes by colluding with Russian government officials with respect to the Russian government's efforts to interfere with the 2016 election for President of the United States, in violation of United States law. Committed a crime or crimes arising out of payments he received from the Ukrainian government before and during the tenure of President Viktor Yanukovych."

"Every key step in this case — including the investigative path and the Indictment itself — has been authorized by the Acting Attorney General through ongoing consultation," Mueller's team wrote in a brief opposing Manafort's bid to throw out the D.C. case.

The new disclosures about the Justice Department's internal handling of the Manafort investigation came in response to a motion Manafort's lawyers filed last month in U.S. District Court in Washington asking to have the criminal charges pending against him there thrown out on the grounds that Mueller's appointment was defective and that he exceeded his authority in going after Manafort."

And again..........there are 3 Branches of Gov't...........The DOJ is in the Executive Dept............Not the Judiciary...........

The Judiciary decides the legality of Court matters including whether or not the Scope by Rosenstein gives unfettered power to the Special Council. A special council that went back over 10 years to dig up a charge against Manafort. Nothing to do with Russia Investigation.

The Judge Challenged that...........because he could see the abuse of power with the Special Council and chastised them for it.

In regards to the Russia Collusion.......YOU HAVE NOTHING. But it is clear that Mueller is trying to crucify Manafort to find anything on Trump. Which is what the Judge said.

In regards to this case........drag Manafort out into the street and have the MSM and FBI beat him to death. because this is a political LINCHING AND NOT A CRIMINAL CASE FOR JUSTICE.

The Judge SAW THAT...........We see it.............and SO DO THE PEOPLE.

The Judiciary decides the legality of Court matters including whether or not the Scope by Rosenstein gives unfettered power to the Special Council. A special council that went back over 10 years to dig up a charge against Manafort. Nothing to do with Russia Investigation.

Bullshit.

The scope is the scope the AG decides it will be. Period.
The judge has no authority in that regard at all.

By definition, if the scope is set by the AG, then it is not "unfettered power" but clearly limited to the scope set by the AG.

You can spin all you like, but Rosenstein has said clearly that Manafort's dealings with Ukraine were within the scope since the day Mueller was appointed.

The scope is controlled by federal law NOT THE DOJ.. Rosenetine is only allowed to tighten the scope or limit it to keep political witch hunts from happening.

IN this case Mueller over-reached went out side of his authority and Rosenstine, in an effort to keep the whole charade alive, expanded it to allow the witch hunt.

The point being, Mueller and his team committed prosecutorial over-reach which violated federal law. And the judge recognized it.

The scope is controlled by federal law NOT THE DOJ.. Rosenetine is only allowed to tighten the scope or limit it to keep political witch hunts from happening.

Bullshit.

The special counsel is appointed by and overseen by the AG. Including the scope of the investigation. Mueller cannot act on anything without the approval of the AG.
Rosenstein signed off on the Manafort raid, charges and indictments. That would not have happened if Mueller was acting without approval.

Explain what federal law you are speaking of.

 

[Hutch Starskey]

Damn, dude. I've posted a link on this like three freaking times now.
Read it!

Rosenstein decides the scope. Not the judge.
Rosenstein gave Mueller the aurhority to investigate and indict Manafort on his Ukraine dealings. That is what was in question in the motion filed by the defense.

This blows that up.

Prosecutors: Rosenstein gave Mueller OK to probe, indict Manafort

"However, Mueller's team submitted a previously undisclosed memo to a federal court in Washington showing that a few months after Mueller was appointed last May, Rosenstein gave him explicit authority to target Manafort over the financial aspects of his lobbying work for the Ukrainian government — in addition to allegations he was linked to Russian interference in the 2016 election.

"The May 17, 2017 [appointment] order was worded categorically in order to permit its release without confirming specific investigations involving specific individuals," Rosenstein wrote in the Aug. 2, 2017 memo. "The following allegations were within the scope of the Investigation at the time of your appointment and are within the scope of the Order: ... Allegations that Paul Manafort: Committed a crime or crimes by colluding with Russian government officials with respect to the Russian government's efforts to interfere with the 2016 election for President of the United States, in violation of United States law. Committed a crime or crimes arising out of payments he received from the Ukrainian government before and during the tenure of President Viktor Yanukovych."

"Every key step in this case — including the investigative path and the Indictment itself — has been authorized by the Acting Attorney General through ongoing consultation," Mueller's team wrote in a brief opposing Manafort's bid to throw out the D.C. case.

The new disclosures about the Justice Department's internal handling of the Manafort investigation came in response to a motion Manafort's lawyers filed last month in U.S. District Court in Washington asking to have the criminal charges pending against him there thrown out on the grounds that Mueller's appointment was defective and that he exceeded his authority in going after Manafort."

And again..........there are 3 Branches of Gov't...........The DOJ is in the Executive Dept............Not the Judiciary...........

The Judiciary decides the legality of Court matters including whether or not the Scope by Rosenstein gives unfettered power to the Special Council. A special council that went back over 10 years to dig up a charge against Manafort. Nothing to do with Russia Investigation.

The Judge Challenged that...........because he could see the abuse of power with the Special Council and chastised them for it.

In regards to the Russia Collusion.......YOU HAVE NOTHING. But it is clear that Mueller is trying to crucify Manafort to find anything on Trump. Which is what the Judge said.

In regards to this case........drag Manafort out into the street and have the MSM and FBI beat him to death. because this is a political LINCHING AND NOT A CRIMINAL CASE FOR JUSTICE.

The Judge SAW THAT...........We see it.............and SO DO THE PEOPLE.

The Judiciary decides the legality of Court matters including whether or not the Scope by Rosenstein gives unfettered power to the Special Council. A special council that went back over 10 years to dig up a charge against Manafort. Nothing to do with Russia Investigation.

Bullshit.

The scope is the scope the AG decides it will be. Period.
The judge has no authority in that regard at all.

By definition, if the scope is set by the AG, then it is not "unfettered power" but clearly limited to the scope set by the AG.

You can spin all you like, but Rosenstein has said clearly that Manafort's dealings with Ukraine were within the scope since the day Mueller was appointed.

Tax evasion charges from 10 years ago are dealings with Ukraine.............

and dealings with the Ukraine was dealings with Russia....

And following the money of those dealings in the Ukraine and with the Russian government's support, is following the money in to the USA and in to Manafort's accounts and purchases of homes all over the place, in the USA, by fraudulent means....

Worse that can happen if the judge does not see the connection, is it is handed over to another state justice department to prosecute Manafort.

After reading the entire transcript, I am not so certain which way the Judge will rule....

How can he see the connection on cold cases over a decade old....................The issue was collusion in an election 2016.....Not in a time when Bush was in office..........Has nothing to do with Trump Collusion or Obstruction.............

Those were cases that he basically said should have been in a different court and not his.

How can he see the connection on cold cases over a decade old.......

Because the prosecution presents their case, dope.

 

[Care4all]

Mueller's ethical behavior is up to the Court to weight.

The Court weighs the law............scope and legality of the charges..............

He has questioned the scope.........and requested a sealed file of that from the Prosecution.

He has questioned why many of the charges were in his court and not in a lesser court.

He has questioned why accusations that were over a decade before were in his court.

He easily saw what was going on and blasted the prosecution for it.

and when the judge decides to let the special counsel continue with the case, what will you say then? The judge was crooked?

 

[eagle1462010]

Mueller's ethical behavior is up to the Court to weight.

The Court weighs the law............scope and legality of the charges..............

He has questioned the scope.........and requested a sealed file of that from the Prosecution.

He has questioned why many of the charges were in his court and not in a lesser court.

He has questioned why accusations that were over a decade before were in his court.

He easily saw what was going on and blasted the prosecution for it.

and when the judge decides to let the special counsel continue with the case, what will you say then? The judge was crooked?

No.............but I highly doubt he's gonna let all those cases go through his court.......especially the very old ones.............

It was a breath of fresh air for the Judge to say the things he said..............He will proceed as the laws prescribe............and he simply stated a lot of what we have been saying for quite some time.......And you have too from time to time...........You understand they are out to Crucify Manafort to try and shake the tree to get Trump.

 

[Care4all]

How can he see the connection on cold cases over a decade old....................

ahem.... did you read the transcript of the hearing?

it was not a cold case, the FBI was already investigating it....it got moved over to Mueller when the special counsel was appointed.

 

[eagle1462010]

And again..........there are 3 Branches of Gov't...........The DOJ is in the Executive Dept............Not the Judiciary...........

The Judiciary decides the legality of Court matters including whether or not the Scope by Rosenstein gives unfettered power to the Special Council. A special council that went back over 10 years to dig up a charge against Manafort. Nothing to do with Russia Investigation.

The Judge Challenged that...........because he could see the abuse of power with the Special Council and chastised them for it.

In regards to the Russia Collusion.......YOU HAVE NOTHING. But it is clear that Mueller is trying to crucify Manafort to find anything on Trump. Which is what the Judge said.

In regards to this case........drag Manafort out into the street and have the MSM and FBI beat him to death. because this is a political LINCHING AND NOT A CRIMINAL CASE FOR JUSTICE.

The Judge SAW THAT...........We see it.............and SO DO THE PEOPLE.

The Judiciary decides the legality of Court matters including whether or not the Scope by Rosenstein gives unfettered power to the Special Council. A special council that went back over 10 years to dig up a charge against Manafort. Nothing to do with Russia Investigation.

Bullshit.

The scope is the scope the AG decides it will be. Period.
The judge has no authority in that regard at all.

By definition, if the scope is set by the AG, then it is not "unfettered power" but clearly limited to the scope set by the AG.

You can spin all you like, but Rosenstein has said clearly that Manafort's dealings with Ukraine were within the scope since the day Mueller was appointed.

Tax evasion charges from 10 years ago are dealings with Ukraine.............

and dealings with the Ukraine was dealings with Russia....

And following the money of those dealings in the Ukraine and with the Russian government's support, is following the money in to the USA and in to Manafort's accounts and purchases of homes all over the place, in the USA, by fraudulent means....

Worse that can happen if the judge does not see the connection, is it is handed over to another state justice department to prosecute Manafort.

After reading the entire transcript, I am not so certain which way the Judge will rule....

How can he see the connection on cold cases over a decade old....................The issue was collusion in an election 2016.....Not in a time when Bush was in office..........Has nothing to do with Trump Collusion or Obstruction.............

Those were cases that he basically said should have been in a different court and not his.

How can he see the connection on cold cases over a decade old.......

Because the prosecution presents their case, dope.

Perhaps they could present their case in a lesser court as the Judge Stated...............

This Special Council is about Collusion.....

Where is it....................

 

[Hutch Starskey]

Can someone show how Mueller and the anthrax investigation impacts the Trump investigation?

Some one is going to have to prove that the suspect was absolutely innocent to the (1) "detriment of the American taxpayer" and (2) "who has had to fork over 4.5 million dollars to settle the lawsuit brought against mueller and Co."

That Mueller supposedly would keep exculpatory evidence from Trump's lawyers is inflammatory and without evidence.

Trump's character is at question far more than that of Mueller.

Time will tell and need not be further discussed here.

Sure............just as soon as you show why a tax evasion charge from a decade before this issue was at hand relates to Russian Collusion.

Sure............just as soon as you show why a tax evasion charge from a decade before this issue was at hand relates to Russian Collusion.

Who has ever said the investigation must only include russian collusion and ignore anything else found?

Prosecutors: Rosenstein gave Mueller OK to probe, indict Manafort

" Rosenstein wrote in the Aug. 2, 2017 memo. "The following allegations were within the scope of the Investigation at the time of your appointment and are within the scope of the Order: ... Allegations that Paul Manafort: Committed a crime or crimes by colluding with Russian government officials with respect to the Russian government's efforts to interfere with the 2016 election for President of the United States, in violation of United States law. Committed a crime or crimes arising out of payments he received from the Ukrainian government before and during the tenure of President Viktor Yanukovych."

 

[Care4all]

Mueller's ethical behavior is up to the Court to weight.

The Court weighs the law............scope and legality of the charges..............

He has questioned the scope.........and requested a sealed file of that from the Prosecution.

He has questioned why many of the charges were in his court and not in a lesser court.

He has questioned why accusations that were over a decade before were in his court.

He easily saw what was going on and blasted the prosecution for it.

and when the judge decides to let the special counsel continue with the case, what will you say then? The judge was crooked?

No.............but I highly doubt he's gonna let all those cases go through his court.......especially the very old ones.............

It was a breath of fresh air for the Judge to say the things he said..............He will proceed as the laws prescribe............and he simply stated a lot of what we have been saying for quite some time.......And you have too from time to time...........You understand they are out to Crucify Manafort to try and shake the tree to get Trump.

yes, that is possible, but the Judge also said, that this was normal procedure for the Justice dept....trying to get defendants to talk on others....he did not say it was against the law or constitution.

 

[eagle1462010]

How can he see the connection on cold cases over a decade old....................

ahem.... did you read the transcript of the hearing?

it was not a cold case, the FBI was already investigating it....it got moved over to Mueller when the special counsel was appointed.

Over a decade after the fact........yeah they dug it up...........

 

[Hutch Starskey]

Bullshit.

The scope is the scope the AG decides it will be. Period.
The judge has no authority in that regard at all.

By definition, if the scope is set by the AG, then it is not "unfettered power" but clearly limited to the scope set by the AG.

You can spin all you like, but Rosenstein has said clearly that Manafort's dealings with Ukraine were within the scope since the day Mueller was appointed.

Tax evasion charges from 10 years ago are dealings with Ukraine.............

and dealings with the Ukraine was dealings with Russia....

And following the money of those dealings in the Ukraine and with the Russian government's support, is following the money in to the USA and in to Manafort's accounts and purchases of homes all over the place, in the USA, by fraudulent means....

Worse that can happen if the judge does not see the connection, is it is handed over to another state justice department to prosecute Manafort.

After reading the entire transcript, I am not so certain which way the Judge will rule....

How can he see the connection on cold cases over a decade old....................The issue was collusion in an election 2016.....Not in a time when Bush was in office..........Has nothing to do with Trump Collusion or Obstruction.............

Those were cases that he basically said should have been in a different court and not his.

How can he see the connection on cold cases over a decade old.......

Because the prosecution presents their case, dope.

Perhaps they could present their case in a lesser court as the Judge Stated...............

This Special Council is about Collusion.....

Where is it....................

The special counsel is about whatever the AG determines it to be about.

 

[candycorn]

Unfreaking real. Awesome development.

"You don't really care about Mr. Manafort's bank fraud," District Judge T.S. Ellis said to prosecutor Michael Dreeben, at times losing his temper. Ellis said prosecutors were interested in Manafort because of his potential to provide material that would lead to Trump's "prosecution or impeachment," Ellis said.

"That's what you're really interested in," said Ellis, who was appointed by President Ronald Reagan.

He repeated his suspicion several times in the hour-long court hearing."

Judge in Manafort case says Mueller's aim is to hurt Trump - CNNPolitics

Mueller’s mandate from Republican DOJ officials allows him to go after any issue that arises from his investigation:

Rosenstein letter appointing Mueller special counsel

Whether it hurts Trump or not is immaterial.

All that letter does is appoint someone to investigate the Russia thing. Has nothing to do with Manafort. This is not a scope memo.

Items 2 and 3 contradict you completely, cohesively, and consistently.

 

[tinydancer]

The memo remit allows Mueller to go where the evidence goes.

You need to read the whole transcript of the exchange between the Judge and SC lawyer. Ellis was smoking the shit out of them. That memo was produced only after the raid. You know like "OMG I need a memo for the raid Ron!!!!!!!".

By the way that raid was truly Stasi. That's police state shit right there Jake.

Bullshit. It says clearly that Mueller had this authority since his appointment.

Rosenstein wrote that memo in August.

He made the statement of why these cases aren't in the lower courts and not his............He also questioned the authority under the special council. Just as he questioned cases over a decade old that have no bearing on their scope of the special council........

He made the statement of why these cases aren't in the lower courts and not his............He also questioned the authority under the special council. Just as he questioned cases over a decade old that have no bearing on their scope of the special council........

Damn, dude. I've posted a link on this like three freaking times now.
Read it!

Rosenstein decides the scope. Not the judge.
Rosenstein gave Mueller the aurhority to investigate and indict Manafort on his Ukraine dealings. That is what was in question in the motion filed by the defense.

This blows that up.

Prosecutors: Rosenstein gave Mueller OK to probe, indict Manafort

"However, Mueller's team submitted a previously undisclosed memo to a federal court in Washington showing that a few months after Mueller was appointed last May, Rosenstein gave him explicit authority to target Manafort over the financial aspects of his lobbying work for the Ukrainian government — in addition to allegations he was linked to Russian interference in the 2016 election.

"The May 17, 2017 [appointment] order was worded categorically in order to permit its release without confirming specific investigations involving specific individuals," Rosenstein wrote in the Aug. 2, 2017 memo. "The following allegations were within the scope of the Investigation at the time of your appointment and are within the scope of the Order: ... Allegations that Paul Manafort: Committed a crime or crimes by colluding with Russian government officials with respect to the Russian government's efforts to interfere with the 2016 election for President of the United States, in violation of United States law. Committed a crime or crimes arising out of payments he received from the Ukrainian government before and during the tenure of President Viktor Yanukovych."

"Every key step in this case — including the investigative path and the Indictment itself — has been authorized by the Acting Attorney General through ongoing consultation," Mueller's team wrote in a brief opposing Manafort's bid to throw out the D.C. case.

The new disclosures about the Justice Department's internal handling of the Manafort investigation came in response to a motion Manafort's lawyers filed last month in U.S. District Court in Washington asking to have the criminal charges pending against him there thrown out on the grounds that Mueller's appointment was defective and that he exceeded his authority in going after Manafort."

And again..........there are 3 Branches of Gov't...........The DOJ is in the Executive Dept............Not the Judiciary...........

The Judiciary decides the legality of Court matters including whether or not the Scope by Rosenstein gives unfettered power to the Special Council. A special council that went back over 10 years to dig up a charge against Manafort. Nothing to do with Russia Investigation.

The Judge Challenged that...........because he could see the abuse of power with the Special Council and chastised them for it.

In regards to the Russia Collusion.......YOU HAVE NOTHING. But it is clear that Mueller is trying to crucify Manafort to find anything on Trump. Which is what the Judge said.

In regards to this case........drag Manafort out into the street and have the MSM and FBI beat him to death. because this is a political LINCHING AND NOT A CRIMINAL CASE FOR JUSTICE.

The Judge SAW THAT...........We see it.............and SO DO THE PEOPLE.

The Judiciary decides the legality of Court matters including whether or not the Scope by Rosenstein gives unfettered power to the Special Council. A special council that went back over 10 years to dig up a charge against Manafort. Nothing to do with Russia Investigation.

Bullshit.

The scope is the scope the AG decides it will be. Period.
The judge has no authority in that regard at all.

By definition, if the scope is set by the AG, then it is not "unfettered power" but clearly limited to the scope set by the AG.

You can spin all you like, but Rosenstein has said clearly that Manafort's dealings with Ukraine were within the scope since the day Mueller was appointed.

The scope is controlled by federal law NOT THE DOJ.. Rosenetine is only allowed to tighten the scope or limit it to keep political witch hunts from happening.

IN this case Mueller over-reached went out side of his authority and Rosenstine, in an effort to keep the whole charade alive, expanded it to allow the witch hunt.

The point being, Mueller and his team committed prosecutorial over-reach which violated federal law. And the judge recognized it.

The scope is controlled by federal law NOT THE DOJ.. Rosenetine is only allowed to tighten the scope or limit it to keep political witch hunts from happening.

Bullshit.

The special counsel is appointed by and overseen by the AG. Including the scope of the investigation. Mueller cannot act on anything wothout the approval of the AG.
Rosenstein signed off on the Manafort raid, charges and indictments. That would not have happened if Mueller was acting without approval.

Explain what federal law you are speaking of.

Why did Rosentstein feel compelled to issue the memo in August after the raid if the original in May covered the Manafort investigation.

Another sticking point is why did the DOJ who already was investigating Manafort turn over their criminal investigation to Mueller? That's the big question the Judge wants answered.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Good questions, imo, td.