Follow along with the video below to see how to install our site as a web app on your home screen.
Note: This feature may not be available in some browsers.
thank you for restoring balance to the universe.----------------------------- Americans like ME all know that the 'dems' are unAmerican scum . So there you go Iceberg .if you want to be taken seriously, talk over the faults of all sides. pretending only 1 side is responsible is fucked up.'reagan' was either Stupid or conniving or his rumored 'alzheimers' was kicking in . And 'old man bush' was just conniving because its my opinion that he and the entire 'bush' familia wants as many 'mex' and hispanics , latinos in the country as possible . Purpose of that is to make 'jebito bushs' mexican wife 'columba' and family feel comfortable Iceberg .
I seen where your coming from and even agree somewhat.i'm going to try and avoid doing this left or right based and just see if we can talk about the issue, conditions that have led up to it and what we can do from here.
first - i think a wall is pointless. it's akin to putting your hands over your ears and going NAH NAH NAH I CAN'T HEAR YOU ANYMORE. most walls through time were mixed in results. israel gets kudos for their big massive wall and it is. big and massive that is. in parts. at other times it's a home depot special and given we still have violence, explosions and problems - well it's not working now is it? slows down yes but fixing the problem would do the same and alleviate the need for the wall.
there are places a wall makes sense and there are places it makes much more sense to simply drone and use technology.
now - what make our immigration system so complex that people feel illegal entry is their only hope?
this makes some sense:
Why Immigration is Such a Hard Problem | The Stream
We all know that in the last few decades the US has grown lax in securing its borders and enforcing immigration laws. It’s also become a vast entitlement state, so that even immigrants who want to make a life for themselves can end up on the public dole. Many of our institutions encourage relativism and treat assimilation as some sort of racist plot.
so - we don't enforce our laws (and we don't. when trump tried he got crucified for separating families, EVEN THOUGH that's what we do in the US to our own citizens) and when we try, it gets political.
why? why is enforcing our laws so political? all i can say is it comes down to our individual insecurities and the way we've simply divided over the last 12+ years. we can't let the other side have what they want or somehow we lose what we want.
one side wants you to work for a living, the other side wants to give a basic income and welcome over millions of people w/o work or effort. i tell ya, $1k a month to a family from honduras would go a long long way wouldn't it? hell live here a year and keep 1/2 and send 1/2 home we're now exporting money to these families who are going to use it in their own country. at least i can see that scenario. hard to prove at this juncture but why wouldn't a family come over, get free $ and send it home then go back home when we run out?
one side is storing nuts for the winter and the other side is throwing their nuts at anyone they can. but it still comes back to not letting the other side have what they feel they want. other said side digs in and suddenly they won't let the first side do things and the only thing left is to spiral off into more stupidity.
and here we are.
so the border issue is much larger than a wall. at least to me and from what i know. we have a congress who refuses to work together to resolve issues and creates stances that are diametrically opposed to whatever the other side wants, even if it makes sense. our government is in chaos and the border is a reflection of people picking up the pieces as we tear things down around us.
a wall won't fix our fundamental problems of simply not trusting each other. that's on us. until we can find a way to focus on where we agree vs. where we don't this will only get worse.
the border is a crisis point. however, the border alone isn't what will kill this country. we're doing that ourselves and that's the crisis we need to understand.
given our penchant to never dig deep into problems and just react emotionally, i don't see this ending well at all.
not their money to do it with.I seen where your coming from and even agree somewhat.i'm going to try and avoid doing this left or right based and just see if we can talk about the issue, conditions that have led up to it and what we can do from here.
first - i think a wall is pointless. it's akin to putting your hands over your ears and going NAH NAH NAH I CAN'T HEAR YOU ANYMORE. most walls through time were mixed in results. israel gets kudos for their big massive wall and it is. big and massive that is. in parts. at other times it's a home depot special and given we still have violence, explosions and problems - well it's not working now is it? slows down yes but fixing the problem would do the same and alleviate the need for the wall.
there are places a wall makes sense and there are places it makes much more sense to simply drone and use technology.
now - what make our immigration system so complex that people feel illegal entry is their only hope?
this makes some sense:
Why Immigration is Such a Hard Problem | The Stream
We all know that in the last few decades the US has grown lax in securing its borders and enforcing immigration laws. It’s also become a vast entitlement state, so that even immigrants who want to make a life for themselves can end up on the public dole. Many of our institutions encourage relativism and treat assimilation as some sort of racist plot.
so - we don't enforce our laws (and we don't. when trump tried he got crucified for separating families, EVEN THOUGH that's what we do in the US to our own citizens) and when we try, it gets political.
why? why is enforcing our laws so political? all i can say is it comes down to our individual insecurities and the way we've simply divided over the last 12+ years. we can't let the other side have what they want or somehow we lose what we want.
one side wants you to work for a living, the other side wants to give a basic income and welcome over millions of people w/o work or effort. i tell ya, $1k a month to a family from honduras would go a long long way wouldn't it? hell live here a year and keep 1/2 and send 1/2 home we're now exporting money to these families who are going to use it in their own country. at least i can see that scenario. hard to prove at this juncture but why wouldn't a family come over, get free $ and send it home then go back home when we run out?
one side is storing nuts for the winter and the other side is throwing their nuts at anyone they can. but it still comes back to not letting the other side have what they feel they want. other said side digs in and suddenly they won't let the first side do things and the only thing left is to spiral off into more stupidity.
and here we are.
so the border issue is much larger than a wall. at least to me and from what i know. we have a congress who refuses to work together to resolve issues and creates stances that are diametrically opposed to whatever the other side wants, even if it makes sense. our government is in chaos and the border is a reflection of people picking up the pieces as we tear things down around us.
a wall won't fix our fundamental problems of simply not trusting each other. that's on us. until we can find a way to focus on where we agree vs. where we don't this will only get worse.
the border is a crisis point. however, the border alone isn't what will kill this country. we're doing that ourselves and that's the crisis we need to understand.
given our penchant to never dig deep into problems and just react emotionally, i don't see this ending well at all.
One slight correction however one side does not want to give a basic income to people or throw out their nuts to others
Instead that side wants the productive class to give others a basic income and wants them to give away their nuts.
It's not about selfishness vs altruism
or i could be like you and ignore it and watch it get worse.you know ICEBERG . Even on this board and with the border invasion these last 40 years since 'reagan - bush' i still hear immigration advocates advocating for immigration for a country [the USA] with 310 million in the 2010 census and uncounted millions of illegal aliens . Go ahead , talk till your heart is content Iceberg .
how am i failing to see that? i don't directly address it no, but i'm trying to NOT get into a YOU DID NO YOU DID crapfest of a discussion. we've got more than enough of those. if you want to skip history and go straight to blame, great have fun. but that isn't what i'm trying to get out of this thread.Sorry, Iceberg, but you are assuming the left WANTS to solve this problem. They don't, they want to exacerbate it. You're failing to see that their goal is to destroy our system of governing and that this is one of the methods they have chosen.
Being pissed is a fake emotion? Well, okay then..are you more of a tiff kinda guy over border security?well first - i'm not pissed. why you have to assign some mock-faux emotion is beyond me. now you attack me and not the issue itself.The laws are being followed at the border which is what is pissing you off..Trump plays the game well in hiding the fact that nothing has changed.so nothing specific. i'll go dig up asylum laws later today when i can to try and get what you're saying - but again what laws can be passed if they don't follow them and we don't enforce them that will make a difference?The asylum laws they passed in the 1990's when Congress wanted groups to come to the US...which laws?Laws must be changed that accommodate the large groups of asylum seekers and those that flood the border..No amount of wall will stop what the law can....
the # of people we allow per year?
the process by which they must go through to become citizens?
and how will we change them?
if they're coming over here because of our "entitlement" mantra these days, will changing laws stop that? they're going to break them anyway so what laws would we put in place they'll follow? not being a dick - just asking honestly if they're going to break laws anyway what laws can we change to get them to stop? also, what laws are we no longer enforcing out of fear of being called "racist"? if we don't enforce the laws we have now, why will more help?
man, sounds like gun control and immigration control share some common problems.
usually means you don't have a lot to say - just like to get some shots in.
first - i think a wall is pointless. it's akin to putting your hands over your ears and going NAH NAH NAH I CAN'T HEAR YOU ANYMORE. most walls through time were mixed in results. israel gets kudos for their big massive wall and it is. big and massive that is. in parts. at other times it's a home depot special and given we still have violence, explosions and problems - well it's not working now is it? slows down yes but fixing the problem would do the same and alleviate the need for the wall.
building something cause it will do SOME good is a bullshit "mushy" argument. cost vs. benefit and the fact we're not fixing a problem but hiding it to me means you don't want to think about it - just giggle and band aid up and say FIXED.first - i think a wall is pointless. it's akin to putting your hands over your ears and going NAH NAH NAH I CAN'T HEAR YOU ANYMORE. most walls through time were mixed in results. israel gets kudos for their big massive wall and it is. big and massive that is. in parts. at other times it's a home depot special and given we still have violence, explosions and problems - well it's not working now is it? slows down yes but fixing the problem would do the same and alleviate the need for the wall.
A good example of mushy "thinking." Among other things, opposing a wall because it would not be 100% effective is a classic straw man argument. Cutting down illegal border crossing by 90% or even 50% would still be beneficial.
Bottom line is this, the US can not continue to support millions upon millions of people wanting better for themselves and their families. The impact on tax payers, poor communities and decreased resources effect us to much and only those who feel this impact can understand this. I get the liberals wanting to engage and help these people, but wages will never increase due to immigrants, jobs will be few for kids wanting to work during the summer and housing sky rockets in poor neighborhoods, all this from illegal immigrants coming into this country. We must step back and see how it impacts us before we continue to dis Tramp and conservatives....the struggle is real, PennyThe republicans have been in charge since 2013 and have done nothing. The first 2 years of Tramp they refused to work with the Dems. You didn't want to get partisan, but you sure did.
when i'm not mad at all and just simply talking over an issue and you choose to characterize me as being PISSED - then yes. it's fake.Being pissed is a fake emotion? Well, okay then..are you more of a tiff kinda guy over border security?well first - i'm not pissed. why you have to assign some mock-faux emotion is beyond me. now you attack me and not the issue itself.The laws are being followed at the border which is what is pissing you off..Trump plays the game well in hiding the fact that nothing has changed.so nothing specific. i'll go dig up asylum laws later today when i can to try and get what you're saying - but again what laws can be passed if they don't follow them and we don't enforce them that will make a difference?The asylum laws they passed in the 1990's when Congress wanted groups to come to the US...which laws?
the # of people we allow per year?
the process by which they must go through to become citizens?
and how will we change them?
if they're coming over here because of our "entitlement" mantra these days, will changing laws stop that? they're going to break them anyway so what laws would we put in place they'll follow? not being a dick - just asking honestly if they're going to break laws anyway what laws can we change to get them to stop? also, what laws are we no longer enforcing out of fear of being called "racist"? if we don't enforce the laws we have now, why will more help?
man, sounds like gun control and immigration control share some common problems.
usually means you don't have a lot to say - just like to get some shots in.
I realize you're attempting to arrive at a solution that both sides can agree to but expecting that to happen assumes that both sides are interested in arriving at a solution. Both sides are not, only one side is. So it doesn't matter what solutions make sense, they will never happen. The problem is not in finding a solution, the problem is figuring out how to get one of the sides to WANT to find a solution, and that is not going to happen because that side has a completely different agenda and that agenda is not in the best interests of our country. That's the reality we're facing. If we want to save our country, the Democrat Party has to go. They're not going to change.how am i failing to see that? i don't directly address it no, but i'm trying to NOT get into a YOU DID NO YOU DID crapfest of a discussion. we've got more than enough of those. if you want to skip history and go straight to blame, great have fun. but that isn't what i'm trying to get out of this thread.Sorry, Iceberg, but you are assuming the left WANTS to solve this problem. They don't, they want to exacerbate it. You're failing to see that their goal is to destroy our system of governing and that this is one of the methods they have chosen.
today no they are not. i go into this fully realizing that fact and my eyes wide open.I realize you're attempting to arrive at a solution that both sides can agree to but expecting that to happen assumes that both sides are interested in arriving at a solution. Both sides are not, only one side is. So it doesn't matter what solutions make sense, they will never happen. The problem is not in finding a solution, the problem is figuring out how to get one of the sides to WANT to find a solution, and that is not going to happen because that side has a completely different agenda and that agenda is not in the best interests of our country. That's the reality we're facing. If we want to save our country, the Democrat Party has to go. They're not going to change.how am i failing to see that? i don't directly address it no, but i'm trying to NOT get into a YOU DID NO YOU DID crapfest of a discussion. we've got more than enough of those. if you want to skip history and go straight to blame, great have fun. but that isn't what i'm trying to get out of this thread.Sorry, Iceberg, but you are assuming the left WANTS to solve this problem. They don't, they want to exacerbate it. You're failing to see that their goal is to destroy our system of governing and that this is one of the methods they have chosen.
and the left has fought him every step of the way in even trying to deal with it.THE ABSOLUTE IRONY IN ALL THIS, IS THAT ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION HAS ACTUALLY INCREASED UNDER TRUMP.....LOLOL
---------------------------- Is that really YOU TRed ?? But yeah , your post just above makes sense and i've been saying the same for years . Course , i'm not willing to HELP any of these countries with more Free money TRed .There is a human solution, discouraging illegals by putting resources in their gov. hands or opposing leaders. But to open our gates and say everyone is welcome is not the way. My God in a few more years this country will mimic a 3rd world country.
