border security a reflection of where we're headed?

[pismoe]

THE ABSOLUTE IRONY IN ALL THIS, IS THAT ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION HAS ACTUALLY INCREASED UNDER TRUMP.....LOLOL

and the left has fought him every step of the way in even trying to deal with it.

trump said he'd compromise on the wall, they didn't care. he says it's a crisis, they say "not it isn't..."

our gov is so dysfunctional and our hate for the other side is driving us into a fall.

----------------------------- shoulda taken the issue serioulsy right after the repubs 'reagan and bush' caused the whole problem 40 years ago Iceberg . You and Americans had a fairly clean USA after 'IKE' and my parents 'OPERATION Wetback' in the 50s Iceberg .

 

[iceberg]

THE ABSOLUTE IRONY IN ALL THIS, IS THAT ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION HAS ACTUALLY INCREASED UNDER TRUMP.....LOLOL

and the left has fought him every step of the way in even trying to deal with it.

trump said he'd compromise on the wall, they didn't care. he says it's a crisis, they say "not it isn't..."

our gov is so dysfunctional and our hate for the other side is driving us into a fall.

----------------------------- shoulda taken the issue serioulsy right after the repubs 'reagan and bush' caused the whole problem 40 years ago Iceberg . You and Americans had a fairly clean USA after 'IKE' and my parents 'OPERATION Wetback' in the 50s Iceberg .

well you could tell me more about it as that does seem to be the history i'm interested in, or you can get after me cause i'm not familiar with it.

 

[pismoe]

already does mimic a third world country since the 80s and thats when Sanctuary Cities started i think . Go see Downtown Los angeles , Van Nuys and the whole of 'southern kalifornia' up to Lancaster and Palmdale Kalifornia Iceberg , TRed .

 

[S.J.]

Sorry, Iceberg, but you are assuming the left WANTS to solve this problem. They don't, they want to exacerbate it. You're failing to see that their goal is to destroy our system of governing and that this is one of the methods they have chosen.

how am i failing to see that? i don't directly address it no, but i'm trying to NOT get into a YOU DID NO YOU DID crapfest of a discussion. we've got more than enough of those. if you want to skip history and go straight to blame, great have fun. but that isn't what i'm trying to get out of this thread.

I realize you're attempting to arrive at a solution that both sides can agree to but expecting that to happen assumes that both sides are interested in arriving at a solution. Both sides are not, only one side is. So it doesn't matter what solutions make sense, they will never happen. The problem is not in finding a solution, the problem is figuring out how to get one of the sides to WANT to find a solution, and that is not going to happen because that side has a completely different agenda and that agenda is not in the best interests of our country. That's the reality we're facing. If we want to save our country, the Democrat Party has to go. They're not going to change.

today no they are not. i go into this fully realizing that fact and my eyes wide open.

but i'm not going to bitch and scream NOTHING IS BEING DONE if i'm not doing what little i can along the way to try.

and i do not feel a wall is a solution so i don't see that viewpoint as arriving as a solution in as much as an action.

They're coming here because they're being invited and are being given a free ride by the taxpayers, courtesy of the Dem Party. The problem is not a lack of solutions, the problem is the Democrat Party. Defeat them and the problem goes away.

 

[iceberg]

Sorry, Iceberg, but you are assuming the left WANTS to solve this problem. They don't, they want to exacerbate it. You're failing to see that their goal is to destroy our system of governing and that this is one of the methods they have chosen.

how am i failing to see that? i don't directly address it no, but i'm trying to NOT get into a YOU DID NO YOU DID crapfest of a discussion. we've got more than enough of those. if you want to skip history and go straight to blame, great have fun. but that isn't what i'm trying to get out of this thread.

I realize you're attempting to arrive at a solution that both sides can agree to but expecting that to happen assumes that both sides are interested in arriving at a solution. Both sides are not, only one side is. So it doesn't matter what solutions make sense, they will never happen. The problem is not in finding a solution, the problem is figuring out how to get one of the sides to WANT to find a solution, and that is not going to happen because that side has a completely different agenda and that agenda is not in the best interests of our country. That's the reality we're facing. If we want to save our country, the Democrat Party has to go. They're not going to change.

today no they are not. i go into this fully realizing that fact and my eyes wide open.

but i'm not going to bitch and scream NOTHING IS BEING DONE if i'm not doing what little i can along the way to try.

and i do not feel a wall is a solution so i don't see that viewpoint as arriving as a solution in as much as an action.

They're coming here because they're being invited and are being given a free ride by the taxpayers, courtesy of the Dem Party. The problem is not a lack of solutions, the problem is the Democrat Party. Defeat them and the problem goes away.

AND that is pretty much what the article i referenced and talked about in the OP said.

since they're not going to "go away" and defeating them in such a manner isn't a viable goal - now what?

 

[pismoe]

seems to me that FORCE is needed Iceberg . Yeah , friendly Force with 'bimbo cakes' and 'mexican soda' . [chuckle]

 

[iceberg]

seems to me that FORCE is needed Iceberg .

how's force been working so far?

 

[pismoe]

seems to me that FORCE is needed Iceberg .

how's force been working so far?

------------------------------- [chuckle] !!

 

[iceberg]

seems to me that FORCE is needed Iceberg .

how's force been working so far?

------------------------------- [chuckle] !!

both sides are forcing their will and we're being overrun.

wheee. more force please.

 

[LoneLaugher]

i'm going to try and avoid doing this left or right based and just see if we can talk about the issue, conditions that have led up to it and what we can do from here.

first - i think a wall is pointless. it's akin to putting your hands over your ears and going NAH NAH NAH I CAN'T HEAR YOU ANYMORE. most walls through time were mixed in results. israel gets kudos for their big massive wall and it is. big and massive that is. in parts. at other times it's a home depot special and given we still have violence, explosions and problems - well it's not working now is it? slows down yes but fixing the problem would do the same and alleviate the need for the wall.

there are places a wall makes sense and there are places it makes much more sense to simply drone and use technology.

now - what make our immigration system so complex that people feel illegal entry is their only hope?

this makes some sense:
Why Immigration is Such a Hard Problem | The Stream
We all know that in the last few decades the US has grown lax in securing its borders and enforcing immigration laws. It’s also become a vast entitlement state, so that even immigrants who want to make a life for themselves can end up on the public dole. Many of our institutions encourage relativism and treat assimilation as some sort of racist plot.

so - we don't enforce our laws (and we don't. when trump tried he got crucified for separating families, EVEN THOUGH that's what we do in the US to our own citizens) and when we try, it gets political.

why? why is enforcing our laws so political? all i can say is it comes down to our individual insecurities and the way we've simply divided over the last 12+ years. we can't let the other side have what they want or somehow we lose what we want.

one side wants you to work for a living, the other side wants to give a basic income and welcome over millions of people w/o work or effort. i tell ya, $1k a month to a family from honduras would go a long long way wouldn't it? hell live here a year and keep 1/2 and send 1/2 home we're now exporting money to these families who are going to use it in their own country. at least i can see that scenario. hard to prove at this juncture but why wouldn't a family come over, get free $ and send it home then go back home when we run out?

one side is storing nuts for the winter and the other side is throwing their nuts at anyone they can. but it still comes back to not letting the other side have what they feel they want. other said side digs in and suddenly they won't let the first side do things and the only thing left is to spiral off into more stupidity.

and here we are.

so the border issue is much larger than a wall. at least to me and from what i know. we have a congress who refuses to work together to resolve issues and creates stances that are diametrically opposed to whatever the other side wants, even if it makes sense. our government is in chaos and the border is a reflection of people picking up the pieces as we tear things down around us.

a wall won't fix our fundamental problems of simply not trusting each other. that's on us. until we can find a way to focus on where we agree vs. where we don't this will only get worse.

the border is a crisis point. however, the border alone isn't what will kill this country. we're doing that ourselves and that's the crisis we need to understand.

given our penchant to never dig deep into problems and just react emotionally, i don't see this ending well at all.

You started off with such promise. I really had hopes.

But your "one side / other side" examples fucked it all up.

Sad. Believe me.

 

[S.J.]

Sorry, Iceberg, but you are assuming the left WANTS to solve this problem. They don't, they want to exacerbate it. You're failing to see that their goal is to destroy our system of governing and that this is one of the methods they have chosen.

how am i failing to see that? i don't directly address it no, but i'm trying to NOT get into a YOU DID NO YOU DID crapfest of a discussion. we've got more than enough of those. if you want to skip history and go straight to blame, great have fun. but that isn't what i'm trying to get out of this thread.

I realize you're attempting to arrive at a solution that both sides can agree to but expecting that to happen assumes that both sides are interested in arriving at a solution. Both sides are not, only one side is. So it doesn't matter what solutions make sense, they will never happen. The problem is not in finding a solution, the problem is figuring out how to get one of the sides to WANT to find a solution, and that is not going to happen because that side has a completely different agenda and that agenda is not in the best interests of our country. That's the reality we're facing. If we want to save our country, the Democrat Party has to go. They're not going to change.

today no they are not. i go into this fully realizing that fact and my eyes wide open.

but i'm not going to bitch and scream NOTHING IS BEING DONE if i'm not doing what little i can along the way to try.

and i do not feel a wall is a solution so i don't see that viewpoint as arriving as a solution in as much as an action.

They're coming here because they're being invited and are being given a free ride by the taxpayers, courtesy of the Dem Party. The problem is not a lack of solutions, the problem is the Democrat Party. Defeat them and the problem goes away.

AND that is pretty much what the article i referenced and talked about in the OP said.

since they're not going to "go away" and defeating them in such a manner isn't a viable goal - now what?

I disagree that it's not a viable goal but aside from that, even though a wall will not stop ALL illegal immigration it's not a reason to do nothing. It WILL stop a lot of them and it WILL slow them down and free up resources and manpower. AND it'll still be there after Trump is out of office. Back to defeating the Dems...I believe that building the wall will show the American people that Republicans are willing to do SOMETHING to curb this invasion. The people want it and once those barriers go up and illegal immigration starts slowing down, I think they'll start voting Republican more. All we need to do is reduce the power of the Dems and better laws can be passed to deal with our border problem.

 

[pismoe]

what TACTICS are there , what tactics exist and what do other nations like Israel do eh ?? One thing the Israeli do from what i hear is to use silenced .22 Ruger Rifles to kneecap their enemies that are called 'palis' and that attempt to invade Israel from what i hear . -------------- just some info Iceberg !!

 

[iceberg]

how am i failing to see that? i don't directly address it no, but i'm trying to NOT get into a YOU DID NO YOU DID crapfest of a discussion. we've got more than enough of those. if you want to skip history and go straight to blame, great have fun. but that isn't what i'm trying to get out of this thread.

I realize you're attempting to arrive at a solution that both sides can agree to but expecting that to happen assumes that both sides are interested in arriving at a solution. Both sides are not, only one side is. So it doesn't matter what solutions make sense, they will never happen. The problem is not in finding a solution, the problem is figuring out how to get one of the sides to WANT to find a solution, and that is not going to happen because that side has a completely different agenda and that agenda is not in the best interests of our country. That's the reality we're facing. If we want to save our country, the Democrat Party has to go. They're not going to change.

today no they are not. i go into this fully realizing that fact and my eyes wide open.

but i'm not going to bitch and scream NOTHING IS BEING DONE if i'm not doing what little i can along the way to try.

and i do not feel a wall is a solution so i don't see that viewpoint as arriving as a solution in as much as an action.

They're coming here because they're being invited and are being given a free ride by the taxpayers, courtesy of the Dem Party. The problem is not a lack of solutions, the problem is the Democrat Party. Defeat them and the problem goes away.

AND that is pretty much what the article i referenced and talked about in the OP said.

since they're not going to "go away" and defeating them in such a manner isn't a viable goal - now what?

I disagree that it's not a viable goal but aside from that, even though a wall will not stop ALL illegal immigration it's not a reason to do nothing. It WILL stop a lot of them and it WILL slow them down and free up resources and manpower. AND it'll still be there after Trump is out of office. Back to defeating the Dems...I believe that building the wall will show the American people that Republicans are willing to do SOMETHING to curb this invasion. The people want it and once those barriers go up and illegal immigration starts slowing down, I think they'll start voting Republican more. All we need to do is reduce the power of the Dems and better laws can be passed to deal with our border problem.

and that is why i believe a wall in proper places makes sense. out in the middle of nowhere not so much. use technology and what we know we can do to stem the tide.

i'd rather see that "something" be working together to get back to the core of the issue and resolving it at it's root cause. i don't disagree that's a near impossible dream, no. but that is my own feeling on what we should be doing.

doing something for the sake of doing something historically has simply never worked as well.

 

[pismoe]

seems to me that FORCE is needed Iceberg .

how's force been working so far?

---------------------------------- FORCE is not being used Iceberg .

 

[james bond]

The problem is still the open border policy, and this is what the Democrats are advocating and it has let in criminals and hurt the economy of the US. All in order to win elections for their candidates. The fight is still for the wall. The Pubs need a wall in order to make the economy strong again and reduce violent and heinous crime. Just deporting isn't enough.

Open border - Wikipedia

 

[pismoe]

thanks , USA needs to WALL if only to send a message . But a Wall also makes the Border easier to defend plus to exclude enemy invaders JBond .

 

[toomuchtime_]

i'm going to try and avoid doing this left or right based and just see if we can talk about the issue, conditions that have led up to it and what we can do from here.

first - i think a wall is pointless. it's akin to putting your hands over your ears and going NAH NAH NAH I CAN'T HEAR YOU ANYMORE. most walls through time were mixed in results. israel gets kudos for their big massive wall and it is. big and massive that is. in parts. at other times it's a home depot special and given we still have violence, explosions and problems - well it's not working now is it? slows down yes but fixing the problem would do the same and alleviate the need for the wall.

there are places a wall makes sense and there are places it makes much more sense to simply drone and use technology.

now - what make our immigration system so complex that people feel illegal entry is their only hope?

this makes some sense:
Why Immigration is Such a Hard Problem | The Stream
We all know that in the last few decades the US has grown lax in securing its borders and enforcing immigration laws. It’s also become a vast entitlement state, so that even immigrants who want to make a life for themselves can end up on the public dole. Many of our institutions encourage relativism and treat assimilation as some sort of racist plot.

so - we don't enforce our laws (and we don't. when trump tried he got crucified for separating families, EVEN THOUGH that's what we do in the US to our own citizens) and when we try, it gets political.

why? why is enforcing our laws so political? all i can say is it comes down to our individual insecurities and the way we've simply divided over the last 12+ years. we can't let the other side have what they want or somehow we lose what we want.

one side wants you to work for a living, the other side wants to give a basic income and welcome over millions of people w/o work or effort. i tell ya, $1k a month to a family from honduras would go a long long way wouldn't it? hell live here a year and keep 1/2 and send 1/2 home we're now exporting money to these families who are going to use it in their own country. at least i can see that scenario. hard to prove at this juncture but why wouldn't a family come over, get free $ and send it home then go back home when we run out?

one side is storing nuts for the winter and the other side is throwing their nuts at anyone they can. but it still comes back to not letting the other side have what they feel they want. other said side digs in and suddenly they won't let the first side do things and the only thing left is to spiral off into more stupidity.

and here we are.

so the border issue is much larger than a wall. at least to me and from what i know. we have a congress who refuses to work together to resolve issues and creates stances that are diametrically opposed to whatever the other side wants, even if it makes sense. our government is in chaos and the border is a reflection of people picking up the pieces as we tear things down around us.

a wall won't fix our fundamental problems of simply not trusting each other. that's on us. until we can find a way to focus on where we agree vs. where we don't this will only get worse.

the border is a crisis point. however, the border alone isn't what will kill this country. we're doing that ourselves and that's the crisis we need to understand.

given our penchant to never dig deep into problems and just react emotionally, i don't see this ending well at all.

First, it is not a wall but a fence and a smart fence at that. Second, the Israeli fence the President has referred to is the fence between Israel and the Sinai, not the fence that separates Israel and the Palestinians. Third, the Israeli fence between Israel and Sinai has worked flawlessly since it was completed in 2013. Before this fence was completed tens of thousands of Africans entered Israel illegally from Sinai, but since the fence was completed in 2013, not one has successfully entered Israel illegally. A smart fence along our southern border is not only the most efficient way to stop illegals from entering the US, it is the only way. Other measures may discourage some of the illegals from trying to enter the US, but only a well maintained smart fence can stop all of them.

Don't believe me? Ask the Democrats. In 2013, Chuck Schumer introduced Senate bill, S. 744, which provided billions of dollars to build hundreds of miles of border fence and billions more to buy surveillance equipment to make it a smart fence and the Democrats claimed at the time it would stop at least 90% of illegal immigration across our southern border. Every Democrat in the Senate voted for it, but it died in the House. In her 2014 book, Hard Choices, Hillary of "I want to build bridges not walls" fame lamented that the bill had not passed.

 

[tigerred59]

There is a human solution, discouraging illegals by putting resources in their gov. hands or opposing leaders. But to open our gates and say everyone is welcome is not the way. My God in a few more years this country will mimic a 3rd world country.

---------------------------- Is that really YOU TRed ?? But yeah , your post just above makes sense and i've been saying the same for years . Course , i'm not willing to HELP any of these countries with more Free money TRed .

I live and work with illegals all day long and I don't want to hate on anybody, but its so frustrating to see my own country fellow people work like dogs to make a living, with no raises, no real benefits while these people come here and take good jobs and work for less. Its just not right. And the reason I know they're here illegally, no effin english at all. Just smiles and nods.

 

[pismoe]

i don't care about Hate , just don't let it become violence . i'm only concerned with Sovereignty of the USA and its Borders . And importing these people or letting them into the USA just hurts Americans and especially American kids TRed .

 

[pismoe]

i don't care about Hate , just don't let it become violence . i'm only concerned with Sovereignty of the USA and its Borders . And importing these people or letting them into the USA just hurts Americans and especially American kids TRed .

---------------------------- whoops !!