Botched Oklahoma Execution

[bendog]

@meat

The 4% figure is best analysis available. Can you point out any flaws in the study? Do you have a better study or figure?

As I posted previously (if you'd read my post you would know) The 4% figure may be the best available, but whatever the true percentage it doesn't change two facts 1) If humans put other humans to death, we will - by virtue of our human imperfection - put some people to death who are not guilty of the crime we are putting them to death for and 2) the more layers of appeal we remove, the more that number will rise.

So now that you are finally up to speed, do you have something you want to discuss?

Reading comprehension...can you read English? If so, you are certainly a disingenuous twat. The 4% innocents you have quoted and intransigently insist on is fodder for dingbats like yourself who have a very tenuous grasp of fact and are so easily manipulated. That is why you are a fool.

You shouldn't call people foul names, and given your apparent lack of information on the subject, you should probably refrain from criticizing others' level of knowledge.

Exonorees/Cases | Mississippi Innocence Project

 

[Meathead]

@meat

The 4% figure is best analysis available. Can you point out any flaws in the study? Do you have a better study or figure?

As I posted previously (if you'd read my post you would know) The 4% figure may be the best available, but whatever the true percentage it doesn't change two facts 1) If humans put other humans to death, we will - by virtue of our human imperfection - put some people to death who are not guilty of the crime we are putting them to death for and 2) the more layers of appeal we remove, the more that number will rise.

So now that you are finally up to speed, do you have something you want to discuss?

Reading comprehension...can you read English? If so, you are certainly a disingenuous twat. The 4% innocents you have quoted and intransigently insist on is fodder for dingbats like yourself who have a very tenuous grasp of fact and are so easily manipulated. That is why you are a fool.

You shouldn't call people foul names, and given your apparent lack of information on the subject, you should probably refrain from criticizing others' level of knowledge.

Exonorees/Cases | Mississippi Innocence Project

You should not be opining in something you have no idea about. If you can show me any study which validates Nodog's claim that 4% of those executed are innocent, I would like to see it. I would hold the same standard to you as I would to him.

Having an internet connection and a computer is not enough.

In fact, "fool" or "ding bat" are not foul names, but I will gladly extend them to you as well.

Twat, in British English might be considered the same as pussy, so there I might apologize if you can prove that he or you are not.

That may be done by proving that 4% of those executed are innocent, otherwise I think it appropriate.

 

[bendog]

twats, not very nice. And I just proved 4% is pretty accurate for Mississippi, and you had, and have, not a clue.

 

[Zoom-boing]

An Oklahoma inmate died Tuesday evening of an apparent heart attack after authorities botched the delivery of drugs and stopped his execution.

Another execution scheduled for the same day was postponed.

Convicted murderer Clayton Lockett was sedated and then given the second and third drugs in the protocol, Oklahoma Department of Corrections Director Robert Patton told reporters.

"There was some concern at that time that the drugs were not having the effect, so the doctor observed the line and determined that the line had blown," he said.

When asked what he meant by "blown," Patton said that Lockett's vein had "exploded."
Botched execution in Oklahoma

"I notified the attorney general's office, the governor's office of my intent to stop the execution and requested a stay for 14 days for the second execution scheduled this afternoon," said Patton, referring to the execution of Charles Warner.

Lockett later suffered what appeared to be a heart attack and died, the director said.

Gov. Mary Fallin issued an executive order granting a stay for Warner and ordered an investigation.

Barbaric. I don't necessarily feel bad for the criminal although a recent study said on average 4 percent of death row inmates are innocent. I feel sorry for us as a society. The murder of a human being that has been removed as a threat from society is simply barbaric and unnecessary. I used to be pro death penalty when I was a teenager because I never really put much thought into it.

The death penalty isn't murder, it's punishment. For what? Well in this instance for the barbaric and unnecessary shooting of a 19 year old girl then standing and watching as two accomplices buried her. Alive.

 

[nodoginnafight]

@meat

The 4% figure is best analysis available. Can you point out any flaws in the study? Do you have a better study or figure?

As I posted previously (if you'd read my post you would know) The 4% figure may be the best available, but whatever the true percentage it doesn't change two facts 1) If humans put other humans to death, we will - by virtue of our human imperfection - put some people to death who are not guilty of the crime we are putting them to death for and 2) the more layers of appeal we remove, the more that number will rise.

So now that you are finally up to speed, do you have something you want to discuss?

Reading comprehension...can you read English? If so, you are certainly a disingenuous twat. The 4% innocents you have quoted and intransigently insist on is fodder for dingbats like yourself who have a very tenuous grasp of fact and are so easily manipulated. That is why you are a fool.

You shouldn't call people foul names, and given your apparent lack of information on the subject, you should probably refrain from criticizing others' level of knowledge.

Exonorees/Cases | Mississippi Innocence Project

It's ok. It's standard procedure on these boards to start calling names when someone uses statistics and scientific studies to refute false assumptions. I always take it as a win.

But I'm afraid citing the lack of deterrent and the economic realities of the death penalty have led many to make a false assumption about my position on the death penalty. So let me clarify.

If one of my family had been murdered like the victim in this Oklahoma case, I'd want that S.O.B. murderer dead. The fact that the state will do it, might shield me from the temptation of doing it myself. So the death penalty has its value imho.

From a purely logical perspective, I don't support it. From an emotional desire for vengeance - that i fully admit I would feel - I do.

I have a real problem with executing people who are not guilty of the crimes we are killing them for - and so I oppose removing any layers of appeal that would drive that number up even though I am well aware of the delays that causes makes it less of a deterrent. In short, I have very mixed feelings about it.

 

[Meathead]

twats, not very nice. And I just proved 4% is pretty accurate for Mississippi, and you had, and have, not a clue.

No, twat is not nice, but you have certainly not proved that 4% of those executed were innocent, nor can you. "Twat" as an accurate description is still very much on the table, certainly for nodog, and even for you.

 

[Zoom-boing]

What happened today was barbaric. The drugs are now difficult to come by and probably not tested properly. The guy writhed in pain and sat up, saying "something's wrong".

I bet Stephanie Neiman wished should could have sat up and shouted 'something's wrong'. Instead, she got to die a horrific death after being shot and buried. Alive. As for Lockett .... karma's a bitch.

An Oklahoma inmate died Tuesday evening of an apparent heart attack after authorities botched the delivery of drugs and stopped his execution.

Another execution scheduled for the same day was postponed.

Convicted murderer Clayton Lockett was sedated and then given the second and third drugs in the protocol, Oklahoma Department of Corrections Director Robert Patton told reporters.

"There was some concern at that time that the drugs were not having the effect, so the doctor observed the line and determined that the line had blown," he said.

When asked what he meant by "blown," Patton said that Lockett's vein had "exploded."
Botched execution in Oklahoma

"I notified the attorney general's office, the governor's office of my intent to stop the execution and requested a stay for 14 days for the second execution scheduled this afternoon," said Patton, referring to the execution of Charles Warner.

Lockett later suffered what appeared to be a heart attack and died, the director said.

Gov. Mary Fallin issued an executive order granting a stay for Warner and ordered an investigation.

Barbaric. I don't necessarily feel bad for the criminal although a recent study said on average 4 percent of death row inmates are innocent. I feel sorry for us as a society. The murder of a human being that has been removed as a threat from society is simply barbaric and unnecessary. I used to be pro death penalty when I was a teenager because I never really put much thought into it.

I saw this story covered on "Last Word w/Lawrence O'Donnell"

Yeah, this is barbaric. This is no way to treat people, the world has come a long way from Medieval Times.

Apparently not.

Lockett was convicted for the 1999 killing of 19-year-old Stephanie Nieman near Tonkawa. Authorities say Lockett shot Nieman twice and then watched as one of his two accomplices buried her alive.

Oklahoma Execution: Stephanie Neiman family issues statement after death of Clayton Lockett - KJRH.com

I hope he was scared shitless and saw satan when he croaked.

 

[OldUSAFSniper]

So I'm supposed to feel bad for a maggot that first bound a girl with duct tape, shot her and then buried her alive? Okay... whew, that was a record time to feel bad. Do I have to feel bad for the guy who was supposed to die on the same day? You know, the one that raped and then beat to death an 11 month old girl? Perhaps another day, my give-a-damn broke over the last round of 'feel bad.'

The death penalty DOES deter crime. It ensures that the perpetrator who is sentenced to death, does not commit another crime, should some panty-waste, slime-ball judge crown themselves King Soloman and pardon them down the road.

Nope, the state of Oklahoma has it right. Although a relative of mine, who is from the state of Texas and a very proud Longhorn fan, texted me: "At least in Texas, we know how to execute someone." I texted back and said, "We do too. He's dead."

 

[Wake]

Reading that she was shot and buried alive, one can easily say justice was indeed served.

 

[Meathead]

So I'm supposed to feel bad for a maggot that first bound a girl with duct tape, shot her and then buried her alive? Okay... whew, that was a record time to feel bad. Do I have to feel bad for the guy who was supposed to die on the same day? You know, the one that raped and then beat to death an 11 month old girl? Perhaps another day, my give-a-damn broke over the last round of 'feel bad.'

The death penalty DOES deter crime. It ensures that the perpetrator who is sentenced to death, does not commit another crime, should some panty-waste, slime-ball judge crown themselves King Soloman and pardon them down the road.

Nope, the state of Oklahoma has it right. Although a relative of mine, who is from the state of Texas and a very proud Longhorn fan, texted me: "At least in Texas, we know how to execute someone." I texted back and said, "We do too. He's dead."r

For all the righteous indignation, it is good to put in context the suffering of the victims of these atrocious crimes. What a case like this highlights is more often the severity and inhumanity of the crime relative to the punishment of the perpetrator and the insignificant suffering relative to the crime .

 

[Decus]

Who is the victim? On top of shooting a girl with a shotgun:

"In addition to the murder charge, Lockett was found guilty of conspiracy, first-degree burglary, three counts of assault with a dangerous weapon, three counts of forcible oral sodomy, four counts of first-degree rape, four counts of kidnapping and two counts of robbery by force and fear. The charges were after former convictions of two or more felonies, according to the court clerk's office."

Man convicted of woman's death | Amarillo.com | Amarillo Globe-News

He was garbage and is not worth a second thought.

 

[nodoginnafight]

Who is the victim? On top of shooting a girl with a shotgun:

"In addition to the murder charge, Lockett was found guilty of conspiracy, first-degree burglary, three counts of assault with a dangerous weapon, three counts of forcible oral sodomy, four counts of first-degree rape, four counts of kidnapping and two counts of robbery by force and fear. The charges were after former convictions of two or more felonies, according to the court clerk's office."

Man convicted of woman's death | Amarillo.com | Amarillo Globe-News

He was garbage and is not worth a second thought.

I agree - I haven't heard anyone mourning this guy.
I have heard people discussing the death penalty in general - pros and cons, and methods and ineptitude.

I haven't heard anyone arguing that this guy deserved anything better than he got. But I haven't read every post in this thread.

 

[cutter]

What happened today was barbaric. The drugs are now difficult to come by and probably not tested properly. The guy writhed in pain and sat up, saying "something's wrong".

Did you read what he did to a 19yr old girl? He shot her with a shotgun then watched his ppartners bury her while still alive. Whatever suffering he did, it still wasn't enough. He sure didn't worry about that young girl suffering. So he suffered, tough shit.

 

[The Breeze]

Reading that she was shot and buried alive, one can easily say justice was indeed served.

He got off to easy.

 

[Political Junky]

This could mark the end of executions -

Clayton Lockett writhed and groaned. After 43 minutes, he was pronounced dead | World news | theguardian.com

<excerpt>
It would be a full 43 minutes after the drug was administered before Lockett died &#8211; and only after he had thrashed on the gurney, writhing and groaning &#8211; as it became clear that the procedure had been botched.

The grim scenes were the culmination of an unprecedented legal and political dispute in Oklahoma that has propelled the state into a nationwide tussle over the growing secrecy surrounding the drugs used by states to kill prisoners.

 

[Vigilante]

This could mark the end of executions -

Clayton Lockett writhed and groaned. After 43 minutes, he was pronounced dead | World news | theguardian.com

<excerpt>
It would be a full 43 minutes after the drug was administered before Lockett died – and only after he had thrashed on the gurney, writhing and groaning – as it became clear that the procedure had been botched.

The grim scenes were the culmination of an unprecedented legal and political dispute in Oklahoma that has propelled the state into a nationwide tussle over the growing secrecy surrounding the drugs used by states to kill prisoners.

And it only took 43 minutes...should have gut shot him twice with a shotgun, stuck him in a hole with hungry rats, and recorded his screams of fear and pain, to be played back each night to the others on death row!

Now THAT'S a deterrent!

No secrecy, his VEIN collapsed, they simply need to put it in a bigger vein!

 

[kwc57]

This could mark the end of executions -

Clayton Lockett writhed and groaned. After 43 minutes, he was pronounced dead | World news | theguardian.com

<excerpt>
It would be a full 43 minutes after the drug was administered before Lockett died – and only after he had thrashed on the gurney, writhing and groaning – as it became clear that the procedure had been botched.

The grim scenes were the culmination of an unprecedented legal and political dispute in Oklahoma that has propelled the state into a nationwide tussle over the growing secrecy surrounding the drugs used by states to kill prisoners.

Good. He deserved it.

 

[Political Junky]

This could mark the end of executions -

Clayton Lockett writhed and groaned. After 43 minutes, he was pronounced dead | World news | theguardian.com

<excerpt>
It would be a full 43 minutes after the drug was administered before Lockett died – and only after he had thrashed on the gurney, writhing and groaning – as it became clear that the procedure had been botched.

The grim scenes were the culmination of an unprecedented legal and political dispute in Oklahoma that has propelled the state into a nationwide tussle over the growing secrecy surrounding the drugs used by states to kill prisoners.

Good. He deserved it.

Maybe the Right can run on medieval torture techniques.

 

[OKTexas]

This could mark the end of executions -

Clayton Lockett writhed and groaned. After 43 minutes, he was pronounced dead | World news | theguardian.com

<excerpt>
It would be a full 43 minutes after the drug was administered before Lockett died – and only after he had thrashed on the gurney, writhing and groaning – as it became clear that the procedure had been botched.

The grim scenes were the culmination of an unprecedented legal and political dispute in Oklahoma that has propelled the state into a nationwide tussle over the growing secrecy surrounding the drugs used by states to kill prisoners.

Good. He deserved it.

Maybe the Right can run on medieval torture techniques.

The supremes already said in a TX case that the defendant has no right to know where the drugs are made because those companies have been targeted with vandalism and death threats. Imagine, the hypocrisy of the liberal loons that threaten people with death to protest the death penalty.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

I hear this all the time....HOW? Logically it's IMPOSSIBLE, especially if the scum is kept alive, fed, housed, clothed, guarded, etc. for 25-50 years!

It costs more to prosecute, and to defend, a death penalty case. Then you have mandatory appeals, special housing and transportation, higher pay for the guards, extra medical expanses as a result of the stress for those guards. and numerous other factors. There are numerous studies that lay out the particulars.

Costs of the Death Penalty | Death Penalty Information Center

QW see the ABOVE!!!!

Do you know anything about how the criminal justice system operates? I know people that had clear cut cases that did not involve the death penalty that took years to appeal, yet you want to wave a magic wand and solve everything by saying they only have a year to appeal a death penalty case. That is so stupid I don't even know where that there is no possible insult I could use to convey to you how stupid it is.