Botched Oklahoma Execution

[jillian]

All justice has to have a portion of vengeance. Without it families and friends of the victims might decide to take punishment into their own hands.

The other part is punishment. For most of the population the concept of committing a serious crime like murder is unthinkable, for those who could consider doing it, the threat of punishment probably keeps alot of those from doing it as well. Once you get to the portion of the population willing to take a life regardless of the consequences, I seriously doubt true rehabilitation is possible. at that point you punish the person "pour les encouragement des autres" you isolate them from society via incarceration or death, and you do it in such a way as to give no excuses to the survivors of the victim to come after the perp with pitch-forks and a rope.

The evidence indicates that our death penalty is not swift and sure enough to be a deterrent.

No credible evidence on whether death penalty deters, experts say - The Denver Post

And I agree about vengeance. I do not discount the value of that.
I just believe it is the only remaining logical argument in support of using a death penalty.

I just think it's justice, that's enough for me, but people who fuck with it have caused it to lose value (ie libtards), it is tough because it's not applied to everyone. Trust me if it was the penalty for every first degree murder, people would get the message.we but when people say it's not a deterrent, I'll believe that when criminals want the death penalty over jail time.

the death penalty has no deterrent effect.



http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/editorials-evidence-does-not-support-death-penalty-deterrent

 

[HenryBHough]

the death penalty has no deterrent effect.

Ah, so you do believe executed killers CAN come back to kill again! That in mind, please be certain to check under the bed and put the plugs in all the sink and tub drains each night. Especially, be sure the toilet lid is down and something heavy it placed on it.

 

[kwc57]

An Oklahoma inmate died Tuesday evening of an apparent heart attack after authorities botched the delivery of drugs and stopped his execution.

Another execution scheduled for the same day was postponed.

Convicted murderer Clayton Lockett was sedated and then given the second and third drugs in the protocol, Oklahoma Department of Corrections Director Robert Patton told reporters.

"There was some concern at that time that the drugs were not having the effect, so the doctor observed the line and determined that the line had blown," he said.

When asked what he meant by "blown," Patton said that Lockett's vein had "exploded."
Botched execution in Oklahoma

"I notified the attorney general's office, the governor's office of my intent to stop the execution and requested a stay for 14 days for the second execution scheduled this afternoon," said Patton, referring to the execution of Charles Warner.

Lockett later suffered what appeared to be a heart attack and died, the director said.

Gov. Mary Fallin issued an executive order granting a stay for Warner and ordered an investigation.

Barbaric. I don't necessarily feel bad for the criminal although a recent study said on average 4 percent of death row inmates are innocent. I feel sorry for us as a society. The murder of a human being that has been removed as a threat from society is simply barbaric and unnecessary. I used to be pro death penalty when I was a teenager because I never really put much thought into it.

What was barbaric was when he raped a girl and buried her alive. While I prefer that state executions be as humane as possible, I have no problem with the karma side of his punishment.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

The evidence indicates that our death penalty is not swift and sure enough to be a deterrent.

No credible evidence on whether death penalty deters, experts say - The Denver Post

And I agree about vengeance. I do not discount the value of that.
I just believe it is the only remaining logical argument in support of using a death penalty.

I just think it's justice, that's enough for me, but people who fuck with it have caused it to lose value (ie libtards), it is tough because it's not applied to everyone. Trust me if it was the penalty for every first degree murder, people would get the message.we but when people say it's not a deterrent, I'll believe that when criminals want the death penalty over jail time.

the death penalty has no deterrent effect.

It sure deters the one that's been executed.

A 2003 study he co-authored, and a 2006 study that re-examined the data, found that each execution results in five fewer homicides, and commuting a death sentence means five more homicides. "The results are robust, they don't really go away," he said. "I oppose the death penalty. But my results show that the death penalty (deters) _ what am I going to do, hide them?"

Statistical studies like his are among a dozen papers since 2001 that capital punishment has deterrent effects. They all explore the same basic theory _ if the cost of something (be it the purchase of an apple or the act of killing someone) becomes too high, people will change their behavior (forego apples or shy from murder).

The Washington Post

 

[Brain357]

An Oklahoma inmate died Tuesday evening of an apparent heart attack after authorities botched the delivery of drugs and stopped his execution.

Another execution scheduled for the same day was postponed.

Convicted murderer Clayton Lockett was sedated and then given the second and third drugs in the protocol, Oklahoma Department of Corrections Director Robert Patton told reporters.

"There was some concern at that time that the drugs were not having the effect, so the doctor observed the line and determined that the line had blown," he said.

When asked what he meant by "blown," Patton said that Lockett's vein had "exploded."
Botched execution in Oklahoma

"I notified the attorney general's office, the governor's office of my intent to stop the execution and requested a stay for 14 days for the second execution scheduled this afternoon," said Patton, referring to the execution of Charles Warner.

Lockett later suffered what appeared to be a heart attack and died, the director said.

Gov. Mary Fallin issued an executive order granting a stay for Warner and ordered an investigation.

Barbaric. I don't necessarily feel bad for the criminal although a recent study said on average 4 percent of death row inmates are innocent. I feel sorry for us as a society. The murder of a human being that has been removed as a threat from society is simply barbaric and unnecessary. I used to be pro death penalty when I was a teenager because I never really put much thought into it.

Lets bring back the executioners axe. Cheap and effective.

 

[martybegan]

The evidence indicates that our death penalty is not swift and sure enough to be a deterrent.

No credible evidence on whether death penalty deters, experts say - The Denver Post

And I agree about vengeance. I do not discount the value of that.
I just believe it is the only remaining logical argument in support of using a death penalty.

I just think it's justice, that's enough for me, but people who fuck with it have caused it to lose value (ie libtards), it is tough because it's not applied to everyone. Trust me if it was the penalty for every first degree murder, people would get the message.we but when people say it's not a deterrent, I'll believe that when criminals want the death penalty over jail time.

the death penalty has no deterrent effect.



EDITORIALS: Evidence Does Not Support Death Penalty As Deterrent | Death Penalty Information Center

It does on the guy who's been executed. And i guess we should ban incarceration as well, because of all the perps who don't mind "three hots and a cot." Jail isn't a deterrent to them so lets just scrap it.

 

[HenryBHough]

I'm still holding for execution by stoning. Not only low cost and effective, it would get possible hundreds of stoners snouts out of the public trough and turn them into taxpaying professionals.

 

[nodoginnafight]

the death penalty has no deterrent effect.

Ah, so you do believe executed killers CAN come back to kill again! That in mind, please be certain to check under the bed and put the plugs in all the sink and tub drains each night. Especially, be sure the toilet lid is down and something heavy it placed on it.

I'd be carefully about exposing the fact that you have no clue what "deterrent" means.

A dead man doesn't have to be deterred, he has been prevented.
Unless you believe in ghosts who are afraid of getting killed again.

 

[HenryBHough]

A dead man doesn't have to be deterred, he has been prevented.
Unless you believe in ghosts who are afraid of getting killed again.

Ah, Bill, parsing words again.

Is not death the ultimate deterrent? But I can see where a liberal risk-taker would be OK with Willie Horton type deterrence.....

 

[Meathead]

What happened to the 4% who were innocent NoDog?

They were executed.

And I don't mourn any of their deaths. Maybe you should read my complete posts before making assumptions and then trying to argue with your own assumptions.

(I guess that's what happens when you try to jump into a conversation between other posters without having read the WHOLE conversation)

I did read your post you ditz, The study you referred to certainly did not suggest that 4% of those executed were innocent. To wit:

Of course. It's statistical fodder for fools. The reports says, and I quote:

The high rate of exoneration among death-sentenced defendants appears to be driven by the threat of execution, but most death-sentenced defendants are removed from death row and resentenced to life imprisonment, after which the likelihood of exoneration drops sharply. We use survival analysis to model this effect, and estimate that if all death-sentenced defendants remained under sentence of death indefinitely, at least 4.1% would be exonerated.

I suppose this is what happens when any fool with an internet connection feels entitled to "contribute". Post 106, idiot!

At least admit to being wrong, because you certainly don't have the insight or integrity to admit to being a fool.
__________________

 

[nodoginnafight]

A dead man doesn't have to be deterred, he has been prevented.
Unless you believe in ghosts who are afraid of getting killed again.

Ah, Bill, parsing words again.

Is not death the ultimate deterrent? But I can see where a liberal risk-taker would be OK with Willie Horton type deterrence.....

Is that all you got.

Tell you what - you keep deterring those ghosts and we'll let other people - who know what the words they use mean - do the grown-up talking. Ok pumpkin?

who is Bill?

 

[HenryBHough]

Tell you what - you keep deterring those ghosts and we'll let other people - who know what the words they use mean - do the grown-up talking. Ok pumpkin?

who is Bill?

Who is Bill?

I'd expect a liberal to recognize his former sweetheart - he who parsed words to try to escape from his dress-staining, cigar moistening adventures.

I don't sweat ghosts - I firmly believe that dead is dead and dead murders can't return to kill again. I also firmly believe that where liberals rule there are multiple Willie Hortons who are very much alive and waiting for opportunity. But please do not so believe and wait your turn.

 

[nodoginnafight]

@meat

The 4% figure is best analysis available. Can you point out any flaws in the study? Do you have a better study or figure?

As I posted previously (if you'd read my post you would know) The 4% figure may be the best available, but whatever the true percentage it doesn't change two facts 1) If humans put other humans to death, we will - by virtue of our human imperfection - put some people to death who are not guilty of the crime we are putting them to death for and 2) the more layers of appeal we remove, the more that number will rise.

So now that you are finally up to speed, do you have something you want to discuss?

 

[nodoginnafight]

Tell you what - you keep deterring those ghosts and we'll let other people - who know what the words they use mean - do the grown-up talking. Ok pumpkin?

who is Bill?

Who is Bill?

I'd expect a liberal to recognize his former sweetheart - he who parsed words to try to escape from his dress-staining, cigar moistening adventures.

I don't sweat ghosts - I firmly believe that dead is dead and dead murders can't return to kill again. I also firmly believe that where liberals rule there are multiple Willie Hortons who are very much alive and waiting for opportunity. But please do not so believe and wait your turn.

I didn't vote for Clinton. I voted for Bush senior. The second time I voted for Browne the Libertarian.

So please, invent the personae you'd rather debate and just go with that.

 

[HenryBHough]

I didn't vote for Clinton. I voted for Bush senior. The second time I voted for Browne the Libertarian.

Wow, that's good cover!

Keep on saying it and sooner or later you'll start to believe it.

 

[bendog]

I didn't vote for Clinton. I voted for Bush senior. The second time I voted for Browne the Libertarian.

Wow, that's good cover!

Keep on saying it and sooner or later you'll start to believe it.

Hey, I voted for BushI in 92 too. I voted for Slick in 96, as there turned out to be not much difference, and Bob Dole is a great guy, but he was done.

 

[Meathead]

@meat

The 4% figure is best analysis available. Can you point out any flaws in the study? Do you have a better study or figure?

As I posted previously (if you'd read my post you would know) The 4% figure may be the best available, but whatever the true percentage it doesn't change two facts 1) If humans put other humans to death, we will - by virtue of our human imperfection - put some people to death who are not guilty of the crime we are putting them to death for and 2) the more layers of appeal we remove, the more that number will rise.

So now that you are finally up to speed, do you have something you want to discuss?

Reading comprehension...can you read English? If so, you are certainly a disingenuous twat. The 4% innocents you have quoted and intransigently insist on is fodder for dingbats like yourself who have a very tenuous grasp of fact and are so easily manipulated. That is why you are a fool.

 

[nodoginnafight]

I didn't vote for Clinton. I voted for Bush senior. The second time I voted for Browne the Libertarian.

Wow, that's good cover!

Keep on saying it and sooner or later you'll start to believe it.

Hey, I voted for BushI in 92 too. I voted for Slick in 96, as there turned out to be not much difference, and Bob Dole is a great guy, but he was done.

I couldn't vote Clinton or Dole, so I went with Browne. Regardless of who Henry would like me to be - I've only voted Democrat twice in my life (and I'm no spring chicken).

 

[HenryBHough]

Hey, I voted for BushI in 92 too. I voted for Slick in 96, as there turned out to be not much difference, and Bob Dole is a great guy, but he was done.

There, now don't you feel better having confessed to that vote for Slick? Keep up the good work. Liberalism is not something for which there can ever be total recovery.....only ongoing recovery.

 

[buckeye45_73]

The evidence indicates that our death penalty is not swift and sure enough to be a deterrent.

No credible evidence on whether death penalty deters, experts say - The Denver Post

And I agree about vengeance. I do not discount the value of that.
I just believe it is the only remaining logical argument in support of using a death penalty.

I just think it's justice, that's enough for me, but people who fuck with it have caused it to lose value (ie libtards), it is tough because it's not applied to everyone. Trust me if it was the penalty for every first degree murder, people would get the message.we but when people say it's not a deterrent, I'll believe that when criminals want the death penalty over jail time.

the death penalty has no deterrent effect.



EDITORIALS: Evidence Does Not Support Death Penalty As Deterrent | Death Penalty Information Center

Ok, so if jail is worse than death, why do so any fight the death penalty? Why dont killers take it?

because most people dont want to die

Also why not make it consistant and say everyone that does, gets it?

and again its justice, which is the only reason i need