Breaking News: Restaurants Closing All Over Seattle As $15 Minimum Wage Mandate Starts April 1st.

[sealybobo]

The idea that outsiders should dictate how the people of a specific city determine a minimum wage, or even have an interest seems totally opposed to conservative or Republican ideology. The people of Seattle are making a determination based on what they want for their city. As long as it adheres to state and federal guidelines and laws everyone else in America should mind their own business.

The idea that outsiders should dictate the wage (minimum, maximum, or otherwise) for any individual is an affront to personal liberty. The wages negotiated between an employer and an employee are no one else's business.

I agree but then a company doesnt give out raises and we see the execs all got a raise we'll have problems.

 

[Lakhota]

No, the minimum wage isn't forcing these Seattle restaurants to close

Anti-minimum wage conservatives are in full gloat over a recent report in a Seattle magazine that lots of Seattle restaurants have closed lately or are due to close in the next weeks or months.

The conservatives gleefully associate this phenomenon with the coming increase in the city's minimum wage, which kicks in April 1 with a rise to $11 an hour from $9.32. (Employers whose workers earn tips get a break--they can pay $10 if the workers make up at least another dollar from their tips.) The wage hike builds over time; for employers with fewer than 500 workers, which would probably cover every full-service Seattle restaurant, the ultimate increase to $16.49--or $15 for tip earners--doesn't happen until 2021.

avid Watkins of the Lawyers, Guns & Money blog points out that the minimum wage opponents are declaring "We told you so" way too soon. In fact, the article that inspired the gloating doesn't ascribe any of the closings to the minimum wage increase and, indeed, points to different reasons in every case. As for the idea that Seattle restaurants are "closing in record number" (sic), as the Tea Party News Network proclaims, it's just not so.

Here's the rundown. Of the seven restaurants specifically mentioned in Seattle Magazine's March 4 post, one was reported by its owner to be located in the wrong neighborhood for its particular mix of bar space and atmosphere. Another is being offloaded by an owner who has three other restaurants in the city and is opening two more. (A neighboring restaurant is expanding into its space.) A third turned out to be too big for the clientele at its location. Three aren't closing at all, but are getting new chefs because their old boss is moving to Spain to join his partner.

How many owners cited the minimum wage as a factor in their actions? None.

More: No, the minimum wage isn't forcing these Seattle restaurants to close - LA Times

Another Steve_McGarrett lie debunked.

 

[danielpalos]

Just the right proclaiming their gospel Truth in public venues.

 

[dblack]

Just the right proclaiming their gospel Truth in public venues.

Commerce Clause.

 

[danielpalos]

Just the right proclaiming their gospel Truth in public venues.

Commerce Clause.

complaining about taxes and using it as an excuse to cease engaging in Commerce; no longer involves our Commerce Clause.

 

[sealybobo]

No, the minimum wage isn't forcing these Seattle restaurants to close

Anti-minimum wage conservatives are in full gloat over a recent report in a Seattle magazine that lots of Seattle restaurants have closed lately or are due to close in the next weeks or months.

The conservatives gleefully associate this phenomenon with the coming increase in the city's minimum wage, which kicks in April 1 with a rise to $11 an hour from $9.32. (Employers whose workers earn tips get a break--they can pay $10 if the workers make up at least another dollar from their tips.) The wage hike builds over time; for employers with fewer than 500 workers, which would probably cover every full-service Seattle restaurant, the ultimate increase to $16.49--or $15 for tip earners--doesn't happen until 2021.

avid Watkins of the Lawyers, Guns & Money blog points out that the minimum wage opponents are declaring "We told you so" way too soon. In fact, the article that inspired the gloating doesn't ascribe any of the closings to the minimum wage increase and, indeed, points to different reasons in every case. As for the idea that Seattle restaurants are "closing in record number" (sic), as the Tea Party News Network proclaims, it's just not so.

Here's the rundown. Of the seven restaurants specifically mentioned in Seattle Magazine's March 4 post, one was reported by its owner to be located in the wrong neighborhood for its particular mix of bar space and atmosphere. Another is being offloaded by an owner who has three other restaurants in the city and is opening two more. (A neighboring restaurant is expanding into its space.) A third turned out to be too big for the clientele at its location. Three aren't closing at all, but are getting new chefs because their old boss is moving to Spain to join his partner.

How many owners cited the minimum wage as a factor in their actions? None.

More: No, the minimum wage isn't forcing these Seattle restaurants to close - LA Times

Another Steve_McGarrett lie debunked.

I dont tip. Mr Pink from Reservoir Dogs

 

[Rexx Taylor]

and to think that Laverne and Shirley worked their tiny asses off for 24 cents an hour in 1955 !!!

 

[Politico]

Still not seeing that sudden rash of restaurant closings due to higher wages. But even if it does happen, i think we'll survive it. Life goes on.

Lifting the ball right before its kicked there Lucy?

So don't own a restaurant or eat in one in Seattle. Or eat in restaurants where they pay their workers shit wages and they spit on your cheeseburger. Problem solved. Bon Appetit.

What is a shit wage? Once they get $15, they'll still be on minimum and demand more. They'll spit in burgers regardless of money they make.

$15? That is $31k a year. According to the gubbermint that is upper middle class for a family of three and does qualify for any benefits or ACA subsidies.

"Gubbermint" of what country? We are talking about the USA. How many decades back are you going to find that 31k being upper middle class?

Last week.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Hey genius...There is an endless supply of low skilled workers. Every single fast food restaurant, dept store and convenience store employs them. And for every one that thinks like you, there are 10 more willing to roll that asshole across the parking lot to take their job.

How's that a good thing for Workers? Not seeing where they're coming out ahead on that. Low skilled Workers wanna get paid too. See, Workers know not to depend on greedy folks like you to help them out. That's why they're standing up for themselves. And good for them. If they don't stand up for themselves, who will?... You?? Ha, not gonna happen.

The entry level/low skilled worker "gets ahead" by increasing their skill set, learning a trade or furthering their education.
The Seattle low skill worker is not standing up for anything. They lean on the crutch of government to "get" them something.
The concept of the prevailing market rate wage is not intended to be a good or bad thing. It is an island. It operates exclusively of opinion. It is what it is. And no government mandate can change that fact.
There may eventually be some workers that will be paid the unrealistic minimum wage in Seattle, but one thing is clear, there will be a lot fewer of them....Full time employment for this skill level will all but disappear. This will also reduce teen employment. Kids that want to work for a little spending money or to save up, will be excluded from the job market because no business is going to pay a high school kid fifteen or even ten dollars per hour.

They said the same thing back when they were talking about raising minimum wage from $4 to $5 and the sky didn't fall.

You do realize that a 9 to 15 raise is much more significant don't you?

And 15 an hour or 31200 a year is a salary that requires some skill and training.

So you are basically saying that people who have worked to increase their skill set are no better than those who can't do anything but stuff crap into a bag

You need those people stuffing crap into bags. Most Americans are way too fat and lazy to do it themselves. It's Supply & Demand. Low skilled workers wanna get paid too. Nothing wrong with that.

They do get paid they just get paid in accordance with the job

If they want more money then they should make themselves more valuable to their employer

The reason they get paid MW is because any moron off the street can do what they do

 

[Skull Pilot]

Hey genius...There is an endless supply of low skilled workers. Every single fast food restaurant, dept store and convenience store employs them. And for every one that thinks like you, there are 10 more willing to roll that asshole across the parking lot to take their job.

How's that a good thing for Workers? Not seeing where they're coming out ahead on that. Low skilled Workers wanna get paid too. See, Workers know not to depend on greedy folks like you to help them out. That's why they're standing up for themselves. And good for them. If they don't stand up for themselves, who will?... You?? Ha, not gonna happen.

The entry level/low skilled worker "gets ahead" by increasing their skill set, learning a trade or furthering their education.
The Seattle low skill worker is not standing up for anything. They lean on the crutch of government to "get" them something.
The concept of the prevailing market rate wage is not intended to be a good or bad thing. It is an island. It operates exclusively of opinion. It is what it is. And no government mandate can change that fact.
There may eventually be some workers that will be paid the unrealistic minimum wage in Seattle, but one thing is clear, there will be a lot fewer of them....Full time employment for this skill level will all but disappear. This will also reduce teen employment. Kids that want to work for a little spending money or to save up, will be excluded from the job market because no business is going to pay a high school kid fifteen or even ten dollars per hour.

They said the same thing back when they were talking about raising minimum wage from $4 to $5 and the sky didn't fall.

You do realize that a 9 to 15 raise is much more significant don't you?

And 15 an hour or 31200 a year is a salary that requires some skill and training.

So you are basically saying that people who have worked to increase their skill set are no better than those who can't do anything but stuff crap into a bag

What do you take home $20k a year making $15 hr?

What difference does that make?

If you can't pay your bills on what you make then you have to do something about it.
It's not an employers job to make sure you pay your own bills all your employer does is offer a job and a place to do it. You accept the wages when you agree to work there.

If the wages aren't enough for you to live on it is your responsibility to earn more by working another job, or improving your skill set so as to warrant a higher salary.

I for one don't want to hire anyone with no ambition other than stuffing crap into bags his whole life

 

[Mac1958]

If you can't pay your bills on what you make then you have to do something about it.
It's not an employers job to make sure you pay your own bills all your employer does is offer a job and a place to do it. You accept the wages when you agree to work there.

If the wages aren't enough for you to live on it is your responsibility to earn more by working another job, or improving your skill set so as to warrant a higher salary.

I for one don't want to hire anyone with no ambition other than stuffing crap into bags his whole life

It used to be that way. It no longer is.

Through constant lowering of standards and expectations, we have created a large underclass of people who are (a) unequipped to be a productive member of the workforce, and (b) tapping into the growing grievance culture and feeling that they are entitled to "more".

So, we either put it on the backs of business to pay them clearly more than they are worth or we put them on the public dole. There are no other options, since the option of increasing standards and expectations is no longer on the table. And putting more on the public dole will only exacerbate the decay.

As for businesses? Well, it's an extension of "you didn't build that, someone else made that happen" - they provide the jobs, a culprit needs to be identified (regardless of how untrue the attack is), and they simply have to pay more than people are worth. Antithetical to the very nature of business? Yep, but that's where we are.

Not being sarcastic here, I'm dead serious. Either we make American business pay up or all these people end up on the streets and on the dole. Making American business pay is the lesser of two evils. Now, watch as this unfolds, and fewer businesses can afford the increase in costs. Oh well.

.

 

[sealybobo]

How's that a good thing for Workers? Not seeing where they're coming out ahead on that. Low skilled Workers wanna get paid too. See, Workers know not to depend on greedy folks like you to help them out. That's why they're standing up for themselves. And good for them. If they don't stand up for themselves, who will?... You?? Ha, not gonna happen.

The entry level/low skilled worker "gets ahead" by increasing their skill set, learning a trade or furthering their education.
The Seattle low skill worker is not standing up for anything. They lean on the crutch of government to "get" them something.
The concept of the prevailing market rate wage is not intended to be a good or bad thing. It is an island. It operates exclusively of opinion. It is what it is. And no government mandate can change that fact.
There may eventually be some workers that will be paid the unrealistic minimum wage in Seattle, but one thing is clear, there will be a lot fewer of them....Full time employment for this skill level will all but disappear. This will also reduce teen employment. Kids that want to work for a little spending money or to save up, will be excluded from the job market because no business is going to pay a high school kid fifteen or even ten dollars per hour.

They said the same thing back when they were talking about raising minimum wage from $4 to $5 and the sky didn't fall.

You do realize that a 9 to 15 raise is much more significant don't you?

And 15 an hour or 31200 a year is a salary that requires some skill and training.

So you are basically saying that people who have worked to increase their skill set are no better than those who can't do anything but stuff crap into a bag

You need those people stuffing crap into bags. Most Americans are way too fat and lazy to do it themselves. It's Supply & Demand. Low skilled workers wanna get paid too. Nothing wrong with that.

They do get paid they just get paid in accordance with the job

If they want more money then they should make themselves more valuable to their employer

The reason they get paid MW is because any moron off the street can do what they do

What do you do? I'm OK with people making minimum as long as its a fair wage. Can't trust owners so the gov decides that number.

 

[sealybobo]

How's that a good thing for Workers? Not seeing where they're coming out ahead on that. Low skilled Workers wanna get paid too. See, Workers know not to depend on greedy folks like you to help them out. That's why they're standing up for themselves. And good for them. If they don't stand up for themselves, who will?... You?? Ha, not gonna happen.

The entry level/low skilled worker "gets ahead" by increasing their skill set, learning a trade or furthering their education.
The Seattle low skill worker is not standing up for anything. They lean on the crutch of government to "get" them something.
The concept of the prevailing market rate wage is not intended to be a good or bad thing. It is an island. It operates exclusively of opinion. It is what it is. And no government mandate can change that fact.
There may eventually be some workers that will be paid the unrealistic minimum wage in Seattle, but one thing is clear, there will be a lot fewer of them....Full time employment for this skill level will all but disappear. This will also reduce teen employment. Kids that want to work for a little spending money or to save up, will be excluded from the job market because no business is going to pay a high school kid fifteen or even ten dollars per hour.

They said the same thing back when they were talking about raising minimum wage from $4 to $5 and the sky didn't fall.

You do realize that a 9 to 15 raise is much more significant don't you?

And 15 an hour or 31200 a year is a salary that requires some skill and training.

So you are basically saying that people who have worked to increase their skill set are no better than those who can't do anything but stuff crap into a bag

What do you take home $20k a year making $15 hr?

What difference does that make?

If you can't pay your bills on what you make then you have to do something about it.
It's not an employers job to make sure you pay your own bills all your employer does is offer a job and a place to do it. You accept the wages when you agree to work there.

If the wages aren't enough for you to live on it is your responsibility to earn more by working another job, or improving your skill set so as to warrant a higher salary.

I for one don't want to hire anyone with no ambition other than stuffing crap into bags his whole life

Then dont own a grocery store

 

[Camp]

Lifting the ball right before its kicked there Lucy?

So don't own a restaurant or eat in one in Seattle. Or eat in restaurants where they pay their workers shit wages and they spit on your cheeseburger. Problem solved. Bon Appetit.

What is a shit wage? Once they get $15, they'll still be on minimum and demand more. They'll spit in burgers regardless of money they make.

$15? That is $31k a year. According to the gubbermint that is upper middle class for a family of three and does qualify for any benefits or ACA subsidies.

"Gubbermint" of what country? We are talking about the USA. How many decades back are you going to find that 31k being upper middle class?

Last week.

I can not find any link that comes even close to that. I don't think "upper middle class" would qualify for any kind of government benefits or ACA. Pretty sure the figure for upper middle class is up over $100,000 a year. Both Obama and Romney put the figure at $200,000 or $250,000. Am I misreading your comment about the $31,000 per year?

 

[Skull Pilot]

The entry level/low skilled worker "gets ahead" by increasing their skill set, learning a trade or furthering their education.
The Seattle low skill worker is not standing up for anything. They lean on the crutch of government to "get" them something.
The concept of the prevailing market rate wage is not intended to be a good or bad thing. It is an island. It operates exclusively of opinion. It is what it is. And no government mandate can change that fact.
There may eventually be some workers that will be paid the unrealistic minimum wage in Seattle, but one thing is clear, there will be a lot fewer of them....Full time employment for this skill level will all but disappear. This will also reduce teen employment. Kids that want to work for a little spending money or to save up, will be excluded from the job market because no business is going to pay a high school kid fifteen or even ten dollars per hour.

They said the same thing back when they were talking about raising minimum wage from $4 to $5 and the sky didn't fall.

You do realize that a 9 to 15 raise is much more significant don't you?

And 15 an hour or 31200 a year is a salary that requires some skill and training.

So you are basically saying that people who have worked to increase their skill set are no better than those who can't do anything but stuff crap into a bag

You need those people stuffing crap into bags. Most Americans are way too fat and lazy to do it themselves. It's Supply & Demand. Low skilled workers wanna get paid too. Nothing wrong with that.

They do get paid they just get paid in accordance with the job

If they want more money then they should make themselves more valuable to their employer

The reason they get paid MW is because any moron off the street can do what they do

What do you do? I'm OK with people making minimum as long as its a fair wage. Can't trust owners so the gov decides that number.

Define fair

 

[zeke]

Define fair

Any number that pisses you off. Is today's minimum wage number "fair"? Define your version of "fair" skull.
Is a CEO getting 10 million a year "fair" skull?

If I can get paid more money using legal means, what's not "fair" about that skull? Happens all the time.

 

[danielpalos]

I still believe reserving labor through a form of minimum wage that clears our poverty guidelines, is more efficient than our current regime; simply because, we could be solving simply poverty and a natural rate of unemployment and reducing a regulatory burden for the private sector.

 

[danielpalos]

They said the same thing back when they were talking about raising minimum wage from $4 to $5 and the sky didn't fall.

You do realize that a 9 to 15 raise is much more significant don't you?

And 15 an hour or 31200 a year is a salary that requires some skill and training.

So you are basically saying that people who have worked to increase their skill set are no better than those who can't do anything but stuff crap into a bag

You need those people stuffing crap into bags. Most Americans are way too fat and lazy to do it themselves. It's Supply & Demand. Low skilled workers wanna get paid too. Nothing wrong with that.

They do get paid they just get paid in accordance with the job

If they want more money then they should make themselves more valuable to their employer

The reason they get paid MW is because any moron off the street can do what they do

What do you do? I'm OK with people making minimum as long as its a fair wage. Can't trust owners so the gov decides that number.

Define fair

War time tax rates on the wealthiest merely to Prove the exigency exists under our form of Capitalism; especially for our wars on crime, drugs, poverty, and terror.

 

[Redfish]

I don't think they're doing it to good customers. Now if you're an asshole to them, then you should worry.

Trust me, you really do want happy & prosperous workers waiting on you in restaurants especially. But happy & prosperous workers make for better workers overall. They're proud of their work and happy to serve.

You never told us how much is a fair wage. Lets say that everyone is doing exactly the same job, how much should they be paid? Is it the same in NYC as in Fargo ND? Is it the same for a single guy living with his parents as for a married guy with 4 kids? Is it the same for a teenager working for pocket money as for a single mom?

And finally, who decides what is a fair wage? Who is this omnipitant wage setter?

How about no less than 60x less than the CEO takes home. Or whatever is a living wage. Its all just funny money anyways.

why? why not 70x or 30x or 90x. whats magic about 60x? Who should invoke those limits, the govt? the shareholders? Should the CEO stop working and go on vacation when he/she kits the magic 60x?

this is foolishness, but you jealousy of successful people is noted.

No ones worth 600x the lowest paid workers. My bro makes over $500k a year. That's ridiculous. But good for him. And good for the union guys getting their fair share.

Is Beyonce worth what society pays her? How about Aaron Rodgers? What does it say about a society when its most valuable members are athletes and entertainers?

But to your point, who should decide how much any person can make? How would you limit Bill Gates income?

 

[Redfish]

Define fair

Any number that pisses you off. Is today's minimum wage number "fair"? Define your version of "fair" skull.
Is a CEO getting 10 million a year "fair" skull?

If I can get paid more money using legal means, what's not "fair" about that skull? Happens all the time.

how much is "fair" ? is it the same in NYC as in Tuscaloosa? is it the same for a single guy as for a married guy with 4 kids? Who do you want to appoint to make the decision as to what is fair for every job?