Brexit busted.

[Mindful]

And again, it didn't happen because it was a duel system. Had he said that ALL PEOPLE regardless would have to wait four years, then there wouldn't have been a problem.

Latest polls say this and that, I could probably find a latest poll that says something different.

If the UK stays in, how will you know the difference from how much the UK would pay if it had left? That's just a silly idea.

Like I said, all it takes is for UK politicians to figure things out. The problem is, and always has been, that in the EU or out of the EU, you're still run by politicians.

And that was it the rule applied to all non British migrants. Why should a migrant come here with the sole intention of claiming from our welfare budget and have no intention to pay anything back in

Very easy just look at the sums for the other nations and work it out. Say if Germany paid £10 trillion this year and the UK paid £8 trillion then we would have paid 80% of what Germany pays. A simple enough equation. Same for the fines imposed and the returns.

The UK public have figured it out already and have shown that we are being screwed by the EU because the left handed everything to them on a plate.

Yeah, why should a person go to the UK just to apply for welfare. Same for kids, why should kids leave school and just apply for welfare. Don't you think anyone who is applying for welfare and isn't willing to work should just not be given it, regardless of nationality?

You think it's easy huh? Well.... what you said doesn't work it out.

The UK public have figured what out? Most of them don't have a clue because the facts are not getting out and are being lost in bullshit.

It is very easy unless you are one of the indigenous that has worked all their lives and find themselves unemployed because of EU meddling. The migrants have government funded quango's that will fill out the paperwork, get the details and submit the claim. Try using them as in indigenous and you will be expelled aggressively. The migrants are given first place in the queue when in comes to housing and health, and you caqn tell when the latest batch have been allocated to an area as brand new kitchen goods appear on gumtree and car boot sales. Then they will move to another area and claim the same again

I remember a local left wing politician being asked at a public meeting if it was true that the council ( local government ) was giving the recent Iraqi migrants fully furnished social housing complete with the latest kitchen appliances, T.V's, computer games and cell phones. He answered that the council was not funding any such thing. After the meeting he was sat in a club drinking whiskey as was his normal behaviour and he let slip that he was glad no one asked if central government was funding it as he would have to have answered YES.

The problems started in the late 1960's early 1970's when we took in Ugandan refugee's and muslim lawyers filled out the forms for them to get everything they could with a commission of 15% for as long as they received the monies.

Again, as I've stated, there are ways of dealing with such a thing and still being in the EU. This isn't about the EU, this is about the UK govt being unable to make laws that work.

If migrants are given first place in the queue now, why wouldn't they be given first place in the queue once the UK leaves the EU? It's not the EU that's putting them in first place you know. The EU actually has almost no power in the UK. The UK govt decides what to do and what not to do based on pressure from the EU. The UK govt could tell the EU to get stuffed, or it could make more intelligent laws that allow them to do as they wish.

Yes, the problem started ages ago. And it had NOTHING to do with the EU.

So while you bring very valid points for things that are severely wrong with the UK and how it is governed, it doesn't have much to do with the EU.

This is a problem. People are associating the immigration crisis with the EU. I don't. I associate it with poor governance, both from Labour and the Tories (though more Labour than Tories), on this issue.

If you knew what you were talking about you would be dangerous. The last neo Marxist government of the UK gave away our rights to make our own laws. So we became just another money pot for the EU to dip into as and when needed. WE WERE GLAD THEY DID NOT JOIN THE EUROZONE AS WE WOULD HAVE BEEN SELLING PARTS OF THE UK TO FRANCE AND GERMANY TO BUILD POWER STATIONS TO SUPPLY THE NEEDS OF MAINLAND EUROPE.

Germany has already built a nuclear power station in either Poland or the Czech Republic (forget which). Whilst busy dismantling its own.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Both sides are playing on fear.

Those favouring subservience to Brussels thumping on fear of economic loss.

Those favouring independence thumping on loss of freedom....or, rather, gaining back some lost freedoms.

Hey, when Obama gets America into the EU (He seems to be jonesing to become president of that syphilitic afterbirth of a Mongolian Gang Fuck) you'll like measuring distances and speed in kilometers, meat by the kilogram and putting an end to all those antiquated figures on US dollars.....won't you?

Well, the reality is that those who want to leave should be giving a message of hope. Those who want to stay should be giving a message of fear at what leaving would do. But the Brexit people aren't doing very well on the message of hope, mostly it's just made up stuff that has no basis in reality.

And you can prove this can you, that it is made up

Yes I can.

Though proving it all would take a long time. But just about anything anyone on the Brexit side says, and you'll see there being a lot of bull. I've already shown stuff from the Express and how they manipulate stories and make up stuff.

WATCH: Politicians go head-to-head over Brexit - and Leave campaign WINS audience vote

Here was this debate. Reported by the Express like this:

"UKIP leader Nigel Farage, Tory MEP Daniel Hannan and Labour MP Kate Hoey gave rousing speeches in favour of leaving the EU while former Lib Dem leader Nick Clegg and Labour MPs Liz Kendall and Chuka Umunna campaigned to stay seemingly withering in comparison."

As if we should all vote to leave because someone can deliver a rousing speech and for no other reason.

""Every continent on this planet has grown over the past decade except Antartica and the European Union."

Maybe so... but it's missing the truth that half of our trade goes to the EU (based on a long term assessment rather than simply what happens today). Just because the EU has gone through a recession since 2008, (notice how they hand pick their dates?) doesn't mean the EU won't come back and be strong at a time when the Far East is looking rather sketchy right now when it comes to their economies.

International Trade in Services - Office for National Statistics

Trade with the EU is 52 billion pounds. Compare that with Asia at only 16 billion, Africa 4 and Australia 2 billion and you see how important that trade is.

Trade with Ireland alone is 6 billion, that's Africa AND Australia together. Ireland Switzerland and Germany are more than the whole of Asia.

To lose a small percentage of trade with the EU is far more damaging than losing it anywhere else.

:"And that means as long as we’re in the European Union, we cannot sign independent trade deals with non-EU countries."

This is false. At present this is the case. This doesn't mean it will always be case. If those who are Euro Skeptic were to come together and become a force within the EU, rather than just taking the money and then moaning about it, then maybe, just maybe, the Federalists in the EU would have a force to fight them, instead all there is is a force to moan at them.

"
"The EU deal with Australia is being held up because some Italian tomato-growers are challenging it.

"The EU deal with Canada is being held up due to an unrelated dispute about Romanian visas.

"How have we put ourselves in a position where we can’t do those deals?"

Then again the deals with the EU will be significantly BETTER than deals with just the UK, because as an economic force the EU is stronger. So, deals get held up because of issues. That doesn't mean that if the UK were alone it would make a better deal that would benefit the UK more.
No, all they've done is present the argument by taking a few issues they feel comfortable with and not assessing the whole issue.

This is a complex issue. Making statements based on only one factor of the whole thing is going to lead to a distorted picture. When the politicians are making distorted pictures then you know the people don't know what is right and what is not either.

""It’s not just the financial price of EU membership – it’s the democratic price."

They talk about Democracy. Yet the people have elected those in the EU parliament, people like Farage, and they do NOTHING. They sit there and take the money and don't try and make things better, don't try and push an agenda that would help the UK, no, they do nothing and moan. That's democracy?

""We fought a civil war in this country to establish the principle that laws should not be passed nor taxes raised except by our own elected representatives."

This is flipping hilarious. When the Civil War was fought and then Cromwell was put in power and basically became a dictator, it had nothing to do with THE PEOPLE deciding what was going to happen. After Cromwell it was Charles II back in power, and still it was only the rich who voted and played their political game. To bring the Civil War into this is just nationalistic bullcrap and has nothing to do with this debate whatsoever.

""And now supreme power is held by people who tend to owe their positions to having just lost elections: Peter Mandelson, Neil Kinnock and what have you."

Okay, there's an issue with how the EU is run. Should it be Democratic? No, I don't think it should. It just should be about the elected governments of each country representing the people so it doesn't turn into the USA, I mean, who would want to end up with an election with Trump v. Hillary? Jeez. That's be like having a choice between Gove and Gove's wife.

Again, the problem here is people like Farage who get paid for going to Brussels and don't represent the UK at all. They sit there and do nothing and then wonder why the Federalists have so much power.

That they bring up Kinnock, well, what does Kinnock actually do? Nothing in the EU. He was in the EU, but not any more.
What about Madelson? He left in 2008. So why are they bring up these people who don't work in the EU?

Beats me.

So here are a few things I can show you where they're manipulating people and distorting the truth, or just plain lying, either way it's unethical.

 

[frigidweirdo]

And again, it didn't happen because it was a duel system. Had he said that ALL PEOPLE regardless would have to wait four years, then there wouldn't have been a problem.

Latest polls say this and that, I could probably find a latest poll that says something different.

If the UK stays in, how will you know the difference from how much the UK would pay if it had left? That's just a silly idea.

Like I said, all it takes is for UK politicians to figure things out. The problem is, and always has been, that in the EU or out of the EU, you're still run by politicians.

And that was it the rule applied to all non British migrants. Why should a migrant come here with the sole intention of claiming from our welfare budget and have no intention to pay anything back in

Very easy just look at the sums for the other nations and work it out. Say if Germany paid £10 trillion this year and the UK paid £8 trillion then we would have paid 80% of what Germany pays. A simple enough equation. Same for the fines imposed and the returns.

The UK public have figured it out already and have shown that we are being screwed by the EU because the left handed everything to them on a plate.

Yeah, why should a person go to the UK just to apply for welfare. Same for kids, why should kids leave school and just apply for welfare. Don't you think anyone who is applying for welfare and isn't willing to work should just not be given it, regardless of nationality?

You think it's easy huh? Well.... what you said doesn't work it out.

The UK public have figured what out? Most of them don't have a clue because the facts are not getting out and are being lost in bullshit.

It is very easy unless you are one of the indigenous that has worked all their lives and find themselves unemployed because of EU meddling. The migrants have government funded quango's that will fill out the paperwork, get the details and submit the claim. Try using them as in indigenous and you will be expelled aggressively. The migrants are given first place in the queue when in comes to housing and health, and you caqn tell when the latest batch have been allocated to an area as brand new kitchen goods appear on gumtree and car boot sales. Then they will move to another area and claim the same again

I remember a local left wing politician being asked at a public meeting if it was true that the council ( local government ) was giving the recent Iraqi migrants fully furnished social housing complete with the latest kitchen appliances, T.V's, computer games and cell phones. He answered that the council was not funding any such thing. After the meeting he was sat in a club drinking whiskey as was his normal behaviour and he let slip that he was glad no one asked if central government was funding it as he would have to have answered YES.

The problems started in the late 1960's early 1970's when we took in Ugandan refugee's and muslim lawyers filled out the forms for them to get everything they could with a commission of 15% for as long as they received the monies.

Again, as I've stated, there are ways of dealing with such a thing and still being in the EU. This isn't about the EU, this is about the UK govt being unable to make laws that work.

If migrants are given first place in the queue now, why wouldn't they be given first place in the queue once the UK leaves the EU? It's not the EU that's putting them in first place you know. The EU actually has almost no power in the UK. The UK govt decides what to do and what not to do based on pressure from the EU. The UK govt could tell the EU to get stuffed, or it could make more intelligent laws that allow them to do as they wish.

Yes, the problem started ages ago. And it had NOTHING to do with the EU.

So while you bring very valid points for things that are severely wrong with the UK and how it is governed, it doesn't have much to do with the EU.

This is a problem. People are associating the immigration crisis with the EU. I don't. I associate it with poor governance, both from Labour and the Tories (though more Labour than Tories), on this issue.

If you knew what you were talking about you would be dangerous. The last neo Marxist government of the UK gave away our rights to make our own laws. So we became just another money pot for the EU to dip into as and when needed. WE WERE GLAD THEY DID NOT JOIN THE EUROZONE AS WE WOULD HAVE BEEN SELLING PARTS OF THE UK TO FRANCE AND GERMANY TO BUILD POWER STATIONS TO SUPPLY THE NEEDS OF MAINLAND EUROPE.

Ah, yeah, now bring out the attacks.

Did I think you would be able to stay on the debate? Not really, but I gave it a go.

About power stations, what the fuck are you going on about? Have you given up trying to debate already? Jeez, you've inserted almost no facts, you've proven nothing and already onto attacking. Well..... I thought your case was so strong, if it were, then you wouldn't resort to such attacks.

 

[Tommy Tainant]

And that was it the rule applied to all non British migrants. Why should a migrant come here with the sole intention of claiming from our welfare budget and have no intention to pay anything back in

Very easy just look at the sums for the other nations and work it out. Say if Germany paid £10 trillion this year and the UK paid £8 trillion then we would have paid 80% of what Germany pays. A simple enough equation. Same for the fines imposed and the returns.

The UK public have figured it out already and have shown that we are being screwed by the EU because the left handed everything to them on a plate.

Yeah, why should a person go to the UK just to apply for welfare. Same for kids, why should kids leave school and just apply for welfare. Don't you think anyone who is applying for welfare and isn't willing to work should just not be given it, regardless of nationality?

You think it's easy huh? Well.... what you said doesn't work it out.

The UK public have figured what out? Most of them don't have a clue because the facts are not getting out and are being lost in bullshit.

It is very easy unless you are one of the indigenous that has worked all their lives and find themselves unemployed because of EU meddling. The migrants have government funded quango's that will fill out the paperwork, get the details and submit the claim. Try using them as in indigenous and you will be expelled aggressively. The migrants are given first place in the queue when in comes to housing and health, and you caqn tell when the latest batch have been allocated to an area as brand new kitchen goods appear on gumtree and car boot sales. Then they will move to another area and claim the same again

I remember a local left wing politician being asked at a public meeting if it was true that the council ( local government ) was giving the recent Iraqi migrants fully furnished social housing complete with the latest kitchen appliances, T.V's, computer games and cell phones. He answered that the council was not funding any such thing. After the meeting he was sat in a club drinking whiskey as was his normal behaviour and he let slip that he was glad no one asked if central government was funding it as he would have to have answered YES.

The problems started in the late 1960's early 1970's when we took in Ugandan refugee's and muslim lawyers filled out the forms for them to get everything they could with a commission of 15% for as long as they received the monies.

Again, as I've stated, there are ways of dealing with such a thing and still being in the EU. This isn't about the EU, this is about the UK govt being unable to make laws that work.

If migrants are given first place in the queue now, why wouldn't they be given first place in the queue once the UK leaves the EU? It's not the EU that's putting them in first place you know. The EU actually has almost no power in the UK. The UK govt decides what to do and what not to do based on pressure from the EU. The UK govt could tell the EU to get stuffed, or it could make more intelligent laws that allow them to do as they wish.

Yes, the problem started ages ago. And it had NOTHING to do with the EU.

So while you bring very valid points for things that are severely wrong with the UK and how it is governed, it doesn't have much to do with the EU.

This is a problem. People are associating the immigration crisis with the EU. I don't. I associate it with poor governance, both from Labour and the Tories (though more Labour than Tories), on this issue.

If you knew what you were talking about you would be dangerous. The last neo Marxist government of the UK gave away our rights to make our own laws. So we became just another money pot for the EU to dip into as and when needed. WE WERE GLAD THEY DID NOT JOIN THE EUROZONE AS WE WOULD HAVE BEEN SELLING PARTS OF THE UK TO FRANCE AND GERMANY TO BUILD POWER STATIONS TO SUPPLY THE NEEDS OF MAINLAND EUROPE.

Ah, yeah, now bring out the attacks.

Did I think you would be able to stay on the debate? Not really, but I gave it a go.

About power stations, what the fuck are you going on about? Have you given up trying to debate already? Jeez, you've inserted almost no facts, you've proven nothing and already onto attacking. Well..... I thought your case was so strong, if it were, then you wouldn't resort to such attacks.

Brexit facts are a cloak to bring in a Little Englander white anglo saxon agenda.Thousands of people could lose their jobs but that is just collateral damage and anyway they can take all those jobs the "darkies" did before we booted them out.

 

[Phoenall]

And that was it the rule applied to all non British migrants. Why should a migrant come here with the sole intention of claiming from our welfare budget and have no intention to pay anything back in

Very easy just look at the sums for the other nations and work it out. Say if Germany paid £10 trillion this year and the UK paid £8 trillion then we would have paid 80% of what Germany pays. A simple enough equation. Same for the fines imposed and the returns.

The UK public have figured it out already and have shown that we are being screwed by the EU because the left handed everything to them on a plate.

Yeah, why should a person go to the UK just to apply for welfare. Same for kids, why should kids leave school and just apply for welfare. Don't you think anyone who is applying for welfare and isn't willing to work should just not be given it, regardless of nationality?

You think it's easy huh? Well.... what you said doesn't work it out.

The UK public have figured what out? Most of them don't have a clue because the facts are not getting out and are being lost in bullshit.

It is very easy unless you are one of the indigenous that has worked all their lives and find themselves unemployed because of EU meddling. The migrants have government funded quango's that will fill out the paperwork, get the details and submit the claim. Try using them as in indigenous and you will be expelled aggressively. The migrants are given first place in the queue when in comes to housing and health, and you caqn tell when the latest batch have been allocated to an area as brand new kitchen goods appear on gumtree and car boot sales. Then they will move to another area and claim the same again

I remember a local left wing politician being asked at a public meeting if it was true that the council ( local government ) was giving the recent Iraqi migrants fully furnished social housing complete with the latest kitchen appliances, T.V's, computer games and cell phones. He answered that the council was not funding any such thing. After the meeting he was sat in a club drinking whiskey as was his normal behaviour and he let slip that he was glad no one asked if central government was funding it as he would have to have answered YES.

The problems started in the late 1960's early 1970's when we took in Ugandan refugee's and muslim lawyers filled out the forms for them to get everything they could with a commission of 15% for as long as they received the monies.

Again, as I've stated, there are ways of dealing with such a thing and still being in the EU. This isn't about the EU, this is about the UK govt being unable to make laws that work.

If migrants are given first place in the queue now, why wouldn't they be given first place in the queue once the UK leaves the EU? It's not the EU that's putting them in first place you know. The EU actually has almost no power in the UK. The UK govt decides what to do and what not to do based on pressure from the EU. The UK govt could tell the EU to get stuffed, or it could make more intelligent laws that allow them to do as they wish.

Yes, the problem started ages ago. And it had NOTHING to do with the EU.

So while you bring very valid points for things that are severely wrong with the UK and how it is governed, it doesn't have much to do with the EU.

This is a problem. People are associating the immigration crisis with the EU. I don't. I associate it with poor governance, both from Labour and the Tories (though more Labour than Tories), on this issue.

If you knew what you were talking about you would be dangerous. The last neo Marxist government of the UK gave away our rights to make our own laws. So we became just another money pot for the EU to dip into as and when needed. WE WERE GLAD THEY DID NOT JOIN THE EUROZONE AS WE WOULD HAVE BEEN SELLING PARTS OF THE UK TO FRANCE AND GERMANY TO BUILD POWER STATIONS TO SUPPLY THE NEEDS OF MAINLAND EUROPE.

Germany has already built a nuclear power station in either Poland or the Czech Republic (forget which). Whilst busy dismantling its own.

If they wanted to play hardball they could wait until Germany had no power generation of their own and then cut the supply. This would leave the Germans in a very tricky situation, do they mobilise and head east or do they pay the price asked. Who would win in the long run, and could the EU exist after such a thing.

 

[Phoenall]

Both sides are playing on fear.

Those favouring subservience to Brussels thumping on fear of economic loss.

Those favouring independence thumping on loss of freedom....or, rather, gaining back some lost freedoms.

Hey, when Obama gets America into the EU (He seems to be jonesing to become president of that syphilitic afterbirth of a Mongolian Gang Fuck) you'll like measuring distances and speed in kilometers, meat by the kilogram and putting an end to all those antiquated figures on US dollars.....won't you?

Well, the reality is that those who want to leave should be giving a message of hope. Those who want to stay should be giving a message of fear at what leaving would do. But the Brexit people aren't doing very well on the message of hope, mostly it's just made up stuff that has no basis in reality.

And you can prove this can you, that it is made up

Yes I can.

Though proving it all would take a long time. But just about anything anyone on the Brexit side says, and you'll see there being a lot of bull. I've already shown stuff from the Express and how they manipulate stories and make up stuff.

WATCH: Politicians go head-to-head over Brexit - and Leave campaign WINS audience vote

Here was this debate. Reported by the Express like this:

"UKIP leader Nigel Farage, Tory MEP Daniel Hannan and Labour MP Kate Hoey gave rousing speeches in favour of leaving the EU while former Lib Dem leader Nick Clegg and Labour MPs Liz Kendall and Chuka Umunna campaigned to stay seemingly withering in comparison."

As if we should all vote to leave because someone can deliver a rousing speech and for no other reason.

""Every continent on this planet has grown over the past decade except Antartica and the European Union."

Maybe so... but it's missing the truth that half of our trade goes to the EU (based on a long term assessment rather than simply what happens today). Just because the EU has gone through a recession since 2008, (notice how they hand pick their dates?) doesn't mean the EU won't come back and be strong at a time when the Far East is looking rather sketchy right now when it comes to their economies.

International Trade in Services - Office for National Statistics

Trade with the EU is 52 billion pounds. Compare that with Asia at only 16 billion, Africa 4 and Australia 2 billion and you see how important that trade is.

Trade with Ireland alone is 6 billion, that's Africa AND Australia together. Ireland Switzerland and Germany are more than the whole of Asia.

To lose a small percentage of trade with the EU is far more damaging than losing it anywhere else.

:"And that means as long as we’re in the European Union, we cannot sign independent trade deals with non-EU countries."

This is false. At present this is the case. This doesn't mean it will always be case. If those who are Euro Skeptic were to come together and become a force within the EU, rather than just taking the money and then moaning about it, then maybe, just maybe, the Federalists in the EU would have a force to fight them, instead all there is is a force to moan at them.

"
"The EU deal with Australia is being held up because some Italian tomato-growers are challenging it.

"The EU deal with Canada is being held up due to an unrelated dispute about Romanian visas.

"How have we put ourselves in a position where we can’t do those deals?"

Then again the deals with the EU will be significantly BETTER than deals with just the UK, because as an economic force the EU is stronger. So, deals get held up because of issues. That doesn't mean that if the UK were alone it would make a better deal that would benefit the UK more.
No, all they've done is present the argument by taking a few issues they feel comfortable with and not assessing the whole issue.

This is a complex issue. Making statements based on only one factor of the whole thing is going to lead to a distorted picture. When the politicians are making distorted pictures then you know the people don't know what is right and what is not either.

""It’s not just the financial price of EU membership – it’s the democratic price."

They talk about Democracy. Yet the people have elected those in the EU parliament, people like Farage, and they do NOTHING. They sit there and take the money and don't try and make things better, don't try and push an agenda that would help the UK, no, they do nothing and moan. That's democracy?

""We fought a civil war in this country to establish the principle that laws should not be passed nor taxes raised except by our own elected representatives."

This is flipping hilarious. When the Civil War was fought and then Cromwell was put in power and basically became a dictator, it had nothing to do with THE PEOPLE deciding what was going to happen. After Cromwell it was Charles II back in power, and still it was only the rich who voted and played their political game. To bring the Civil War into this is just nationalistic bullcrap and has nothing to do with this debate whatsoever.

""And now supreme power is held by people who tend to owe their positions to having just lost elections: Peter Mandelson, Neil Kinnock and what have you."

Okay, there's an issue with how the EU is run. Should it be Democratic? No, I don't think it should. It just should be about the elected governments of each country representing the people so it doesn't turn into the USA, I mean, who would want to end up with an election with Trump v. Hillary? Jeez. That's be like having a choice between Gove and Gove's wife.

Again, the problem here is people like Farage who get paid for going to Brussels and don't represent the UK at all. They sit there and do nothing and then wonder why the Federalists have so much power.

That they bring up Kinnock, well, what does Kinnock actually do? Nothing in the EU. He was in the EU, but not any more.
What about Madelson? He left in 2008. So why are they bring up these people who don't work in the EU?

Beats me.

So here are a few things I can show you where they're manipulating people and distorting the truth, or just plain lying, either way it's unethical.

And who can say that the same trade wont carry on, just without the terms and conditions imposed by the EU. So the UK would not lose that as the stay lobby keeps saying it will. With it being a two way street the EU relies on the UK to take its goods, and if the UK leaves the EU will still need that market for its goods. The MEP's that support their parties will be the ones most vociferous as they will lose their wages and have to get a proper job instead. Some have screwed as much as £1 million out of the EU coffers. That is what the money goes towards the greedy fraudsters that are supposed to represent their countries, and not on bettering the lives of the people. The common market was a better deal as it made everything a level playing field and set wholesale prices for the growers that were fair. It also set quota's and the excess was stored against times of hardship, so the elderly of the EU would receive a pound of butter every week because there was a surplus and it was close to its "sell by date"

 

[frigidweirdo]

Yeah, why should a person go to the UK just to apply for welfare. Same for kids, why should kids leave school and just apply for welfare. Don't you think anyone who is applying for welfare and isn't willing to work should just not be given it, regardless of nationality?

You think it's easy huh? Well.... what you said doesn't work it out.

The UK public have figured what out? Most of them don't have a clue because the facts are not getting out and are being lost in bullshit.

It is very easy unless you are one of the indigenous that has worked all their lives and find themselves unemployed because of EU meddling. The migrants have government funded quango's that will fill out the paperwork, get the details and submit the claim. Try using them as in indigenous and you will be expelled aggressively. The migrants are given first place in the queue when in comes to housing and health, and you caqn tell when the latest batch have been allocated to an area as brand new kitchen goods appear on gumtree and car boot sales. Then they will move to another area and claim the same again

I remember a local left wing politician being asked at a public meeting if it was true that the council ( local government ) was giving the recent Iraqi migrants fully furnished social housing complete with the latest kitchen appliances, T.V's, computer games and cell phones. He answered that the council was not funding any such thing. After the meeting he was sat in a club drinking whiskey as was his normal behaviour and he let slip that he was glad no one asked if central government was funding it as he would have to have answered YES.

The problems started in the late 1960's early 1970's when we took in Ugandan refugee's and muslim lawyers filled out the forms for them to get everything they could with a commission of 15% for as long as they received the monies.

Again, as I've stated, there are ways of dealing with such a thing and still being in the EU. This isn't about the EU, this is about the UK govt being unable to make laws that work.

If migrants are given first place in the queue now, why wouldn't they be given first place in the queue once the UK leaves the EU? It's not the EU that's putting them in first place you know. The EU actually has almost no power in the UK. The UK govt decides what to do and what not to do based on pressure from the EU. The UK govt could tell the EU to get stuffed, or it could make more intelligent laws that allow them to do as they wish.

Yes, the problem started ages ago. And it had NOTHING to do with the EU.

So while you bring very valid points for things that are severely wrong with the UK and how it is governed, it doesn't have much to do with the EU.

This is a problem. People are associating the immigration crisis with the EU. I don't. I associate it with poor governance, both from Labour and the Tories (though more Labour than Tories), on this issue.

If you knew what you were talking about you would be dangerous. The last neo Marxist government of the UK gave away our rights to make our own laws. So we became just another money pot for the EU to dip into as and when needed. WE WERE GLAD THEY DID NOT JOIN THE EUROZONE AS WE WOULD HAVE BEEN SELLING PARTS OF THE UK TO FRANCE AND GERMANY TO BUILD POWER STATIONS TO SUPPLY THE NEEDS OF MAINLAND EUROPE.

Ah, yeah, now bring out the attacks.

Did I think you would be able to stay on the debate? Not really, but I gave it a go.

About power stations, what the fuck are you going on about? Have you given up trying to debate already? Jeez, you've inserted almost no facts, you've proven nothing and already onto attacking. Well..... I thought your case was so strong, if it were, then you wouldn't resort to such attacks.

Brexit facts are a cloak to bring in a Little Englander white anglo saxon agenda.Thousands of people could lose their jobs but that is just collateral damage and anyway they can take all those jobs the "darkies" did before we booted them out.

Well, this debate requires a lot of facts, a lot of pointing out what is what, what COULD be what is also extremely important. But I don't see this happening. Just people playing politics for the sake of winning. And those on both sides perhaps don't understand the implications of what is happening.

 

[Phoenall]

And that was it the rule applied to all non British migrants. Why should a migrant come here with the sole intention of claiming from our welfare budget and have no intention to pay anything back in

Very easy just look at the sums for the other nations and work it out. Say if Germany paid £10 trillion this year and the UK paid £8 trillion then we would have paid 80% of what Germany pays. A simple enough equation. Same for the fines imposed and the returns.

The UK public have figured it out already and have shown that we are being screwed by the EU because the left handed everything to them on a plate.

Yeah, why should a person go to the UK just to apply for welfare. Same for kids, why should kids leave school and just apply for welfare. Don't you think anyone who is applying for welfare and isn't willing to work should just not be given it, regardless of nationality?

You think it's easy huh? Well.... what you said doesn't work it out.

The UK public have figured what out? Most of them don't have a clue because the facts are not getting out and are being lost in bullshit.

It is very easy unless you are one of the indigenous that has worked all their lives and find themselves unemployed because of EU meddling. The migrants have government funded quango's that will fill out the paperwork, get the details and submit the claim. Try using them as in indigenous and you will be expelled aggressively. The migrants are given first place in the queue when in comes to housing and health, and you caqn tell when the latest batch have been allocated to an area as brand new kitchen goods appear on gumtree and car boot sales. Then they will move to another area and claim the same again

I remember a local left wing politician being asked at a public meeting if it was true that the council ( local government ) was giving the recent Iraqi migrants fully furnished social housing complete with the latest kitchen appliances, T.V's, computer games and cell phones. He answered that the council was not funding any such thing. After the meeting he was sat in a club drinking whiskey as was his normal behaviour and he let slip that he was glad no one asked if central government was funding it as he would have to have answered YES.

The problems started in the late 1960's early 1970's when we took in Ugandan refugee's and muslim lawyers filled out the forms for them to get everything they could with a commission of 15% for as long as they received the monies.

Again, as I've stated, there are ways of dealing with such a thing and still being in the EU. This isn't about the EU, this is about the UK govt being unable to make laws that work.

If migrants are given first place in the queue now, why wouldn't they be given first place in the queue once the UK leaves the EU? It's not the EU that's putting them in first place you know. The EU actually has almost no power in the UK. The UK govt decides what to do and what not to do based on pressure from the EU. The UK govt could tell the EU to get stuffed, or it could make more intelligent laws that allow them to do as they wish.

Yes, the problem started ages ago. And it had NOTHING to do with the EU.

So while you bring very valid points for things that are severely wrong with the UK and how it is governed, it doesn't have much to do with the EU.

This is a problem. People are associating the immigration crisis with the EU. I don't. I associate it with poor governance, both from Labour and the Tories (though more Labour than Tories), on this issue.

If you knew what you were talking about you would be dangerous. The last neo Marxist government of the UK gave away our rights to make our own laws. So we became just another money pot for the EU to dip into as and when needed. WE WERE GLAD THEY DID NOT JOIN THE EUROZONE AS WE WOULD HAVE BEEN SELLING PARTS OF THE UK TO FRANCE AND GERMANY TO BUILD POWER STATIONS TO SUPPLY THE NEEDS OF MAINLAND EUROPE.

Ah, yeah, now bring out the attacks.

Did I think you would be able to stay on the debate? Not really, but I gave it a go.

About power stations, what the fuck are you going on about? Have you given up trying to debate already? Jeez, you've inserted almost no facts, you've proven nothing and already onto attacking. Well..... I thought your case was so strong, if it were, then you wouldn't resort to such attacks.

The usual LIES when you cant keep track of reality, just look at Greece, Portugal and Ireland that have all faced swinging cuts to balance the books because of stupid governments in the past. The Greeks were on the verge of having to sell its land to pay the debts imposed by the EU. The only interest shown was for the lucrative holiday destinations and the uninhabited islands. Work it out ?

 

[Tommy Tainant]

It is very easy unless you are one of the indigenous that has worked all their lives and find themselves unemployed because of EU meddling. The migrants have government funded quango's that will fill out the paperwork, get the details and submit the claim. Try using them as in indigenous and you will be expelled aggressively. The migrants are given first place in the queue when in comes to housing and health, and you caqn tell when the latest batch have been allocated to an area as brand new kitchen goods appear on gumtree and car boot sales. Then they will move to another area and claim the same again

I remember a local left wing politician being asked at a public meeting if it was true that the council ( local government ) was giving the recent Iraqi migrants fully furnished social housing complete with the latest kitchen appliances, T.V's, computer games and cell phones. He answered that the council was not funding any such thing. After the meeting he was sat in a club drinking whiskey as was his normal behaviour and he let slip that he was glad no one asked if central government was funding it as he would have to have answered YES.

The problems started in the late 1960's early 1970's when we took in Ugandan refugee's and muslim lawyers filled out the forms for them to get everything they could with a commission of 15% for as long as they received the monies.

Again, as I've stated, there are ways of dealing with such a thing and still being in the EU. This isn't about the EU, this is about the UK govt being unable to make laws that work.

If migrants are given first place in the queue now, why wouldn't they be given first place in the queue once the UK leaves the EU? It's not the EU that's putting them in first place you know. The EU actually has almost no power in the UK. The UK govt decides what to do and what not to do based on pressure from the EU. The UK govt could tell the EU to get stuffed, or it could make more intelligent laws that allow them to do as they wish.

Yes, the problem started ages ago. And it had NOTHING to do with the EU.

So while you bring very valid points for things that are severely wrong with the UK and how it is governed, it doesn't have much to do with the EU.

This is a problem. People are associating the immigration crisis with the EU. I don't. I associate it with poor governance, both from Labour and the Tories (though more Labour than Tories), on this issue.

If you knew what you were talking about you would be dangerous. The last neo Marxist government of the UK gave away our rights to make our own laws. So we became just another money pot for the EU to dip into as and when needed. WE WERE GLAD THEY DID NOT JOIN THE EUROZONE AS WE WOULD HAVE BEEN SELLING PARTS OF THE UK TO FRANCE AND GERMANY TO BUILD POWER STATIONS TO SUPPLY THE NEEDS OF MAINLAND EUROPE.

Ah, yeah, now bring out the attacks.

Did I think you would be able to stay on the debate? Not really, but I gave it a go.

About power stations, what the fuck are you going on about? Have you given up trying to debate already? Jeez, you've inserted almost no facts, you've proven nothing and already onto attacking. Well..... I thought your case was so strong, if it were, then you wouldn't resort to such attacks.

Brexit facts are a cloak to bring in a Little Englander white anglo saxon agenda.Thousands of people could lose their jobs but that is just collateral damage and anyway they can take all those jobs the "darkies" did before we booted them out.

Well, this debate requires a lot of facts, a lot of pointing out what is what, what COULD be what is also extremely important. But I don't see this happening. Just people playing politics for the sake of winning. And those on both sides perhaps don't understand the implications of what is happening.

Yup, but its not going to happen.
There are two leave campaigns funded by different interests and they loathe each other.On the remain side you have the two most hated men in Britain heading up the campaign and they have massive credibility issues.
The large majority of the parties support remain in general but all are compromised in some way.
Corbyn is at best ambivalent.Sturgeon would love a Brexit for obvious reasons whilst Leanne is tied up in a real battle with the assembly elections.

Nobody is standing up and making the case.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Both sides are playing on fear.

Those favouring subservience to Brussels thumping on fear of economic loss.

Those favouring independence thumping on loss of freedom....or, rather, gaining back some lost freedoms.

Hey, when Obama gets America into the EU (He seems to be jonesing to become president of that syphilitic afterbirth of a Mongolian Gang Fuck) you'll like measuring distances and speed in kilometers, meat by the kilogram and putting an end to all those antiquated figures on US dollars.....won't you?

Well, the reality is that those who want to leave should be giving a message of hope. Those who want to stay should be giving a message of fear at what leaving would do. But the Brexit people aren't doing very well on the message of hope, mostly it's just made up stuff that has no basis in reality.

And you can prove this can you, that it is made up

Yes I can.

Though proving it all would take a long time. But just about anything anyone on the Brexit side says, and you'll see there being a lot of bull. I've already shown stuff from the Express and how they manipulate stories and make up stuff.

WATCH: Politicians go head-to-head over Brexit - and Leave campaign WINS audience vote

Here was this debate. Reported by the Express like this:

"UKIP leader Nigel Farage, Tory MEP Daniel Hannan and Labour MP Kate Hoey gave rousing speeches in favour of leaving the EU while former Lib Dem leader Nick Clegg and Labour MPs Liz Kendall and Chuka Umunna campaigned to stay seemingly withering in comparison."

As if we should all vote to leave because someone can deliver a rousing speech and for no other reason.

""Every continent on this planet has grown over the past decade except Antartica and the European Union."

Maybe so... but it's missing the truth that half of our trade goes to the EU (based on a long term assessment rather than simply what happens today). Just because the EU has gone through a recession since 2008, (notice how they hand pick their dates?) doesn't mean the EU won't come back and be strong at a time when the Far East is looking rather sketchy right now when it comes to their economies.

International Trade in Services - Office for National Statistics

Trade with the EU is 52 billion pounds. Compare that with Asia at only 16 billion, Africa 4 and Australia 2 billion and you see how important that trade is.

Trade with Ireland alone is 6 billion, that's Africa AND Australia together. Ireland Switzerland and Germany are more than the whole of Asia.

To lose a small percentage of trade with the EU is far more damaging than losing it anywhere else.

:"And that means as long as we’re in the European Union, we cannot sign independent trade deals with non-EU countries."

This is false. At present this is the case. This doesn't mean it will always be case. If those who are Euro Skeptic were to come together and become a force within the EU, rather than just taking the money and then moaning about it, then maybe, just maybe, the Federalists in the EU would have a force to fight them, instead all there is is a force to moan at them.

"
"The EU deal with Australia is being held up because some Italian tomato-growers are challenging it.

"The EU deal with Canada is being held up due to an unrelated dispute about Romanian visas.

"How have we put ourselves in a position where we can’t do those deals?"

Then again the deals with the EU will be significantly BETTER than deals with just the UK, because as an economic force the EU is stronger. So, deals get held up because of issues. That doesn't mean that if the UK were alone it would make a better deal that would benefit the UK more.
No, all they've done is present the argument by taking a few issues they feel comfortable with and not assessing the whole issue.

This is a complex issue. Making statements based on only one factor of the whole thing is going to lead to a distorted picture. When the politicians are making distorted pictures then you know the people don't know what is right and what is not either.

""It’s not just the financial price of EU membership – it’s the democratic price."

They talk about Democracy. Yet the people have elected those in the EU parliament, people like Farage, and they do NOTHING. They sit there and take the money and don't try and make things better, don't try and push an agenda that would help the UK, no, they do nothing and moan. That's democracy?

""We fought a civil war in this country to establish the principle that laws should not be passed nor taxes raised except by our own elected representatives."

This is flipping hilarious. When the Civil War was fought and then Cromwell was put in power and basically became a dictator, it had nothing to do with THE PEOPLE deciding what was going to happen. After Cromwell it was Charles II back in power, and still it was only the rich who voted and played their political game. To bring the Civil War into this is just nationalistic bullcrap and has nothing to do with this debate whatsoever.

""And now supreme power is held by people who tend to owe their positions to having just lost elections: Peter Mandelson, Neil Kinnock and what have you."

Okay, there's an issue with how the EU is run. Should it be Democratic? No, I don't think it should. It just should be about the elected governments of each country representing the people so it doesn't turn into the USA, I mean, who would want to end up with an election with Trump v. Hillary? Jeez. That's be like having a choice between Gove and Gove's wife.

Again, the problem here is people like Farage who get paid for going to Brussels and don't represent the UK at all. They sit there and do nothing and then wonder why the Federalists have so much power.

That they bring up Kinnock, well, what does Kinnock actually do? Nothing in the EU. He was in the EU, but not any more.
What about Madelson? He left in 2008. So why are they bring up these people who don't work in the EU?

Beats me.

So here are a few things I can show you where they're manipulating people and distorting the truth, or just plain lying, either way it's unethical.

And who can say that the same trade wont carry on, just without the terms and conditions imposed by the EU. So the UK would not lose that as the stay lobby keeps saying it will. With it being a two way street the EU relies on the UK to take its goods, and if the UK leaves the EU will still need that market for its goods. The MEP's that support their parties will be the ones most vociferous as they will lose their wages and have to get a proper job instead. Some have screwed as much as £1 million out of the EU coffers. That is what the money goes towards the greedy fraudsters that are supposed to represent their countries, and not on bettering the lives of the people. The common market was a better deal as it made everything a level playing field and set wholesale prices for the growers that were fair. It also set quota's and the excess was stored against times of hardship, so the elderly of the EU would receive a pound of butter every week because there was a surplus and it was close to its "sell by date"

Yeah, sure. Who can say trade won't carry on?

Basically the British people need to vote and it's playing poker. You have so much money riding on this one hand. Who's to say the EU doesn't have two aces and the last card on the flop won't be another ace, and you've got a 2 and 6 and there's a 3 in the first three cards up.

You might win. You might lose.

Now, the people need to make this gamble. A good gambler knows his stuff. He knows the percentages, he knows the risks, he can eye up his opponent and see what's happening.

The British people need to be told the percentages. They need to see what the opponent is doing. They need all this information. And what's happening? They're not getting it. They getting "come on, he doesn't have anything, I know it, I can feel it in my bones, he's got nothing, you'll win, just go all in". That's bull.

If the British people make a decision, it should be made for the right reasons. Not because Obama moved Churchill's bust to a different room, and the Civil War didn't kill Neil Kinnock.

You make claims that MEPs who support their parties will be the best off. Farage's who career is on the line. If the UK leave the EU then he's out of a job. So who's to say that Farage isn't trying to make the stay camp do well while trying to make himself look good? What's in it for Farage? He's a politician too.

Where will UKIP go if the UK leave? Who'd vote for a party like that? Or are they gambling that they'd take over the Tories? The Express thinks so.

So, in the past things have been better with the EU. So why doesn't Farage and his buddies go out and try and restore this? Why don't they go and try and make the EU what we want it to be instead of just moaning?

 

[frigidweirdo]

Yeah, why should a person go to the UK just to apply for welfare. Same for kids, why should kids leave school and just apply for welfare. Don't you think anyone who is applying for welfare and isn't willing to work should just not be given it, regardless of nationality?

You think it's easy huh? Well.... what you said doesn't work it out.

The UK public have figured what out? Most of them don't have a clue because the facts are not getting out and are being lost in bullshit.

It is very easy unless you are one of the indigenous that has worked all their lives and find themselves unemployed because of EU meddling. The migrants have government funded quango's that will fill out the paperwork, get the details and submit the claim. Try using them as in indigenous and you will be expelled aggressively. The migrants are given first place in the queue when in comes to housing and health, and you caqn tell when the latest batch have been allocated to an area as brand new kitchen goods appear on gumtree and car boot sales. Then they will move to another area and claim the same again

I remember a local left wing politician being asked at a public meeting if it was true that the council ( local government ) was giving the recent Iraqi migrants fully furnished social housing complete with the latest kitchen appliances, T.V's, computer games and cell phones. He answered that the council was not funding any such thing. After the meeting he was sat in a club drinking whiskey as was his normal behaviour and he let slip that he was glad no one asked if central government was funding it as he would have to have answered YES.

The problems started in the late 1960's early 1970's when we took in Ugandan refugee's and muslim lawyers filled out the forms for them to get everything they could with a commission of 15% for as long as they received the monies.

Again, as I've stated, there are ways of dealing with such a thing and still being in the EU. This isn't about the EU, this is about the UK govt being unable to make laws that work.

If migrants are given first place in the queue now, why wouldn't they be given first place in the queue once the UK leaves the EU? It's not the EU that's putting them in first place you know. The EU actually has almost no power in the UK. The UK govt decides what to do and what not to do based on pressure from the EU. The UK govt could tell the EU to get stuffed, or it could make more intelligent laws that allow them to do as they wish.

Yes, the problem started ages ago. And it had NOTHING to do with the EU.

So while you bring very valid points for things that are severely wrong with the UK and how it is governed, it doesn't have much to do with the EU.

This is a problem. People are associating the immigration crisis with the EU. I don't. I associate it with poor governance, both from Labour and the Tories (though more Labour than Tories), on this issue.

If you knew what you were talking about you would be dangerous. The last neo Marxist government of the UK gave away our rights to make our own laws. So we became just another money pot for the EU to dip into as and when needed. WE WERE GLAD THEY DID NOT JOIN THE EUROZONE AS WE WOULD HAVE BEEN SELLING PARTS OF THE UK TO FRANCE AND GERMANY TO BUILD POWER STATIONS TO SUPPLY THE NEEDS OF MAINLAND EUROPE.

Ah, yeah, now bring out the attacks.

Did I think you would be able to stay on the debate? Not really, but I gave it a go.

About power stations, what the fuck are you going on about? Have you given up trying to debate already? Jeez, you've inserted almost no facts, you've proven nothing and already onto attacking. Well..... I thought your case was so strong, if it were, then you wouldn't resort to such attacks.

The usual LIES when you cant keep track of reality, just look at Greece, Portugal and Ireland that have all faced swinging cuts to balance the books because of stupid governments in the past. The Greeks were on the verge of having to sell its land to pay the debts imposed by the EU. The only interest shown was for the lucrative holiday destinations and the uninhabited islands. Work it out ?

No, you've jumped to a different topic that doesn't have anything to do with power stations.

Look, Greece shouldn't have been allowed into the EU, it was a mistake of great proportions that the Greek govt made as much as the EU made.

Greece has been run badly by the Greek government. So that isn't an EU issue.

Ireland had cuts because of a recession which affected many of its new industries, like computing.

Portugal is just a poor country and relies a lot on tourism.

So what's your point?

 

[Drummond]

Yeah, why should a person go to the UK just to apply for welfare. Same for kids, why should kids leave school and just apply for welfare. Don't you think anyone who is applying for welfare and isn't willing to work should just not be given it, regardless of nationality?

You think it's easy huh? Well.... what you said doesn't work it out.

The UK public have figured what out? Most of them don't have a clue because the facts are not getting out and are being lost in bullshit.

It is very easy unless you are one of the indigenous that has worked all their lives and find themselves unemployed because of EU meddling. The migrants have government funded quango's that will fill out the paperwork, get the details and submit the claim. Try using them as in indigenous and you will be expelled aggressively. The migrants are given first place in the queue when in comes to housing and health, and you caqn tell when the latest batch have been allocated to an area as brand new kitchen goods appear on gumtree and car boot sales. Then they will move to another area and claim the same again

I remember a local left wing politician being asked at a public meeting if it was true that the council ( local government ) was giving the recent Iraqi migrants fully furnished social housing complete with the latest kitchen appliances, T.V's, computer games and cell phones. He answered that the council was not funding any such thing. After the meeting he was sat in a club drinking whiskey as was his normal behaviour and he let slip that he was glad no one asked if central government was funding it as he would have to have answered YES.

The problems started in the late 1960's early 1970's when we took in Ugandan refugee's and muslim lawyers filled out the forms for them to get everything they could with a commission of 15% for as long as they received the monies.

Again, as I've stated, there are ways of dealing with such a thing and still being in the EU. This isn't about the EU, this is about the UK govt being unable to make laws that work.

If migrants are given first place in the queue now, why wouldn't they be given first place in the queue once the UK leaves the EU? It's not the EU that's putting them in first place you know. The EU actually has almost no power in the UK. The UK govt decides what to do and what not to do based on pressure from the EU. The UK govt could tell the EU to get stuffed, or it could make more intelligent laws that allow them to do as they wish.

Yes, the problem started ages ago. And it had NOTHING to do with the EU.

So while you bring very valid points for things that are severely wrong with the UK and how it is governed, it doesn't have much to do with the EU.

This is a problem. People are associating the immigration crisis with the EU. I don't. I associate it with poor governance, both from Labour and the Tories (though more Labour than Tories), on this issue.

If you knew what you were talking about you would be dangerous. The last neo Marxist government of the UK gave away our rights to make our own laws. So we became just another money pot for the EU to dip into as and when needed. WE WERE GLAD THEY DID NOT JOIN THE EUROZONE AS WE WOULD HAVE BEEN SELLING PARTS OF THE UK TO FRANCE AND GERMANY TO BUILD POWER STATIONS TO SUPPLY THE NEEDS OF MAINLAND EUROPE.

Ah, yeah, now bring out the attacks.

Did I think you would be able to stay on the debate? Not really, but I gave it a go.

About power stations, what the fuck are you going on about? Have you given up trying to debate already? Jeez, you've inserted almost no facts, you've proven nothing and already onto attacking. Well..... I thought your case was so strong, if it were, then you wouldn't resort to such attacks.

Brexit facts are a cloak to bring in a Little Englander white anglo saxon agenda.Thousands of people could lose their jobs but that is just collateral damage and anyway they can take all those jobs the "darkies" did before we booted them out.

Charming. You've injected race into this discussion, you seem intent on that, and totally needlessly. Unless, of course, you have to, because you're not confident of your stance ?

This is understandable ......

 

[Tommy Tainant]

It is very easy unless you are one of the indigenous that has worked all their lives and find themselves unemployed because of EU meddling. The migrants have government funded quango's that will fill out the paperwork, get the details and submit the claim. Try using them as in indigenous and you will be expelled aggressively. The migrants are given first place in the queue when in comes to housing and health, and you caqn tell when the latest batch have been allocated to an area as brand new kitchen goods appear on gumtree and car boot sales. Then they will move to another area and claim the same again

I remember a local left wing politician being asked at a public meeting if it was true that the council ( local government ) was giving the recent Iraqi migrants fully furnished social housing complete with the latest kitchen appliances, T.V's, computer games and cell phones. He answered that the council was not funding any such thing. After the meeting he was sat in a club drinking whiskey as was his normal behaviour and he let slip that he was glad no one asked if central government was funding it as he would have to have answered YES.

The problems started in the late 1960's early 1970's when we took in Ugandan refugee's and muslim lawyers filled out the forms for them to get everything they could with a commission of 15% for as long as they received the monies.

Again, as I've stated, there are ways of dealing with such a thing and still being in the EU. This isn't about the EU, this is about the UK govt being unable to make laws that work.

If migrants are given first place in the queue now, why wouldn't they be given first place in the queue once the UK leaves the EU? It's not the EU that's putting them in first place you know. The EU actually has almost no power in the UK. The UK govt decides what to do and what not to do based on pressure from the EU. The UK govt could tell the EU to get stuffed, or it could make more intelligent laws that allow them to do as they wish.

Yes, the problem started ages ago. And it had NOTHING to do with the EU.

So while you bring very valid points for things that are severely wrong with the UK and how it is governed, it doesn't have much to do with the EU.

This is a problem. People are associating the immigration crisis with the EU. I don't. I associate it with poor governance, both from Labour and the Tories (though more Labour than Tories), on this issue.

If you knew what you were talking about you would be dangerous. The last neo Marxist government of the UK gave away our rights to make our own laws. So we became just another money pot for the EU to dip into as and when needed. WE WERE GLAD THEY DID NOT JOIN THE EUROZONE AS WE WOULD HAVE BEEN SELLING PARTS OF THE UK TO FRANCE AND GERMANY TO BUILD POWER STATIONS TO SUPPLY THE NEEDS OF MAINLAND EUROPE.

Ah, yeah, now bring out the attacks.

Did I think you would be able to stay on the debate? Not really, but I gave it a go.

About power stations, what the fuck are you going on about? Have you given up trying to debate already? Jeez, you've inserted almost no facts, you've proven nothing and already onto attacking. Well..... I thought your case was so strong, if it were, then you wouldn't resort to such attacks.

Brexit facts are a cloak to bring in a Little Englander white anglo saxon agenda.Thousands of people could lose their jobs but that is just collateral damage and anyway they can take all those jobs the "darkies" did before we booted them out.

Charming. You've injected race into this discussion, you seem intent on that, and totally needlessly. Unless, of course, you have to, because you're not confident of your stance ?

This is understandable ......

C'mon..................... Brexit is all about race. Try making a case without mentioning immigration.

 

[frigidweirdo]

It is very easy unless you are one of the indigenous that has worked all their lives and find themselves unemployed because of EU meddling. The migrants have government funded quango's that will fill out the paperwork, get the details and submit the claim. Try using them as in indigenous and you will be expelled aggressively. The migrants are given first place in the queue when in comes to housing and health, and you caqn tell when the latest batch have been allocated to an area as brand new kitchen goods appear on gumtree and car boot sales. Then they will move to another area and claim the same again

I remember a local left wing politician being asked at a public meeting if it was true that the council ( local government ) was giving the recent Iraqi migrants fully furnished social housing complete with the latest kitchen appliances, T.V's, computer games and cell phones. He answered that the council was not funding any such thing. After the meeting he was sat in a club drinking whiskey as was his normal behaviour and he let slip that he was glad no one asked if central government was funding it as he would have to have answered YES.

The problems started in the late 1960's early 1970's when we took in Ugandan refugee's and muslim lawyers filled out the forms for them to get everything they could with a commission of 15% for as long as they received the monies.

Again, as I've stated, there are ways of dealing with such a thing and still being in the EU. This isn't about the EU, this is about the UK govt being unable to make laws that work.

If migrants are given first place in the queue now, why wouldn't they be given first place in the queue once the UK leaves the EU? It's not the EU that's putting them in first place you know. The EU actually has almost no power in the UK. The UK govt decides what to do and what not to do based on pressure from the EU. The UK govt could tell the EU to get stuffed, or it could make more intelligent laws that allow them to do as they wish.

Yes, the problem started ages ago. And it had NOTHING to do with the EU.

So while you bring very valid points for things that are severely wrong with the UK and how it is governed, it doesn't have much to do with the EU.

This is a problem. People are associating the immigration crisis with the EU. I don't. I associate it with poor governance, both from Labour and the Tories (though more Labour than Tories), on this issue.

If you knew what you were talking about you would be dangerous. The last neo Marxist government of the UK gave away our rights to make our own laws. So we became just another money pot for the EU to dip into as and when needed. WE WERE GLAD THEY DID NOT JOIN THE EUROZONE AS WE WOULD HAVE BEEN SELLING PARTS OF THE UK TO FRANCE AND GERMANY TO BUILD POWER STATIONS TO SUPPLY THE NEEDS OF MAINLAND EUROPE.

Ah, yeah, now bring out the attacks.

Did I think you would be able to stay on the debate? Not really, but I gave it a go.

About power stations, what the fuck are you going on about? Have you given up trying to debate already? Jeez, you've inserted almost no facts, you've proven nothing and already onto attacking. Well..... I thought your case was so strong, if it were, then you wouldn't resort to such attacks.

Brexit facts are a cloak to bring in a Little Englander white anglo saxon agenda.Thousands of people could lose their jobs but that is just collateral damage and anyway they can take all those jobs the "darkies" did before we booted them out.

Charming. You've injected race into this discussion, you seem intent on that, and totally needlessly. Unless, of course, you have to, because you're not confident of your stance ?

This is understandable ......

I don't think he injected race into this. Race has been there a loooooooong time.

 

[anotherlife]

The only way the stupid little englanders will learn is if they have to buy a visa to go to benidorm.

You mean like we had to do until recently.

The original plan was signed in June 1985 by 5 of the 10 UE nations. Then in 1990 the Schengen convention abolished visas forf travel between member states. Then in 1999 they became law under the Amsterdan treaty with UK and Ireland opting out

Good luck going back to 1999. The internet alone has globalized the world since that time so much, that separating yourself out of it is just asking to become a Mexico.

Like I said, little englanders want to give up all decision influence and play into the hands of britain's competitors. Bravo.

Not that long ago is it, just 16 years, and we need a visa if we travel outside the EU so no hardship at all.


Our neo Marxist politicians have already done that, which is why no British goods are available anymore. The British companies have been sold, asset stripped and names kept to fool American wannabee's and arab oil shieks. Names like Jaguar, Mini, Land Rover and Rolls Royce. All now in foreign ownership

That visa doesn't allow you to work or stay over 3 month. So much for your retirement condo. Hehehe.

 

[Drummond]

Again, as I've stated, there are ways of dealing with such a thing and still being in the EU. This isn't about the EU, this is about the UK govt being unable to make laws that work.

If migrants are given first place in the queue now, why wouldn't they be given first place in the queue once the UK leaves the EU? It's not the EU that's putting them in first place you know. The EU actually has almost no power in the UK. The UK govt decides what to do and what not to do based on pressure from the EU. The UK govt could tell the EU to get stuffed, or it could make more intelligent laws that allow them to do as they wish.

Yes, the problem started ages ago. And it had NOTHING to do with the EU.

So while you bring very valid points for things that are severely wrong with the UK and how it is governed, it doesn't have much to do with the EU.

This is a problem. People are associating the immigration crisis with the EU. I don't. I associate it with poor governance, both from Labour and the Tories (though more Labour than Tories), on this issue.

If you knew what you were talking about you would be dangerous. The last neo Marxist government of the UK gave away our rights to make our own laws. So we became just another money pot for the EU to dip into as and when needed. WE WERE GLAD THEY DID NOT JOIN THE EUROZONE AS WE WOULD HAVE BEEN SELLING PARTS OF THE UK TO FRANCE AND GERMANY TO BUILD POWER STATIONS TO SUPPLY THE NEEDS OF MAINLAND EUROPE.

Ah, yeah, now bring out the attacks.

Did I think you would be able to stay on the debate? Not really, but I gave it a go.

About power stations, what the fuck are you going on about? Have you given up trying to debate already? Jeez, you've inserted almost no facts, you've proven nothing and already onto attacking. Well..... I thought your case was so strong, if it were, then you wouldn't resort to such attacks.

Brexit facts are a cloak to bring in a Little Englander white anglo saxon agenda.Thousands of people could lose their jobs but that is just collateral damage and anyway they can take all those jobs the "darkies" did before we booted them out.

Charming. You've injected race into this discussion, you seem intent on that, and totally needlessly. Unless, of course, you have to, because you're not confident of your stance ?

This is understandable ......

C'mon..................... Brexit is all about race. Try making a case without mentioning immigration.

You're saying that anyone of another nationality isn't of the same race as many here in the UK ??

For example, there are no white, caucasian, people in Poland ? France ? Germany ? Italy ? Belgium ? Shall I go on ?

This isn't about race (much though you wish you could legitimately claim it was). It's about people of other nationalities, from other cultures, who are allowed to feel that they have a 'free pass' to settle down here in the UK, regardless of numbers coming to these shores, and regardless of our capacity (and willingness !!) to take them all ... which, it seems, we will be learning a lot more of in the coming weeks !

Why haven't you yet tried to tell us how many immigrants here would be TOO MANY for us to take ? Is it because, in your world, the UK has an infinite capacity to take everyone ??

 

[Phoenall]

Both sides are playing on fear.

Those favouring subservience to Brussels thumping on fear of economic loss.

Those favouring independence thumping on loss of freedom....or, rather, gaining back some lost freedoms.

Hey, when Obama gets America into the EU (He seems to be jonesing to become president of that syphilitic afterbirth of a Mongolian Gang Fuck) you'll like measuring distances and speed in kilometers, meat by the kilogram and putting an end to all those antiquated figures on US dollars.....won't you?

Well, the reality is that those who want to leave should be giving a message of hope. Those who want to stay should be giving a message of fear at what leaving would do. But the Brexit people aren't doing very well on the message of hope, mostly it's just made up stuff that has no basis in reality.

And you can prove this can you, that it is made up

Yes I can.

Though proving it all would take a long time. But just about anything anyone on the Brexit side says, and you'll see there being a lot of bull. I've already shown stuff from the Express and how they manipulate stories and make up stuff.

WATCH: Politicians go head-to-head over Brexit - and Leave campaign WINS audience vote

Here was this debate. Reported by the Express like this:

"UKIP leader Nigel Farage, Tory MEP Daniel Hannan and Labour MP Kate Hoey gave rousing speeches in favour of leaving the EU while former Lib Dem leader Nick Clegg and Labour MPs Liz Kendall and Chuka Umunna campaigned to stay seemingly withering in comparison."

As if we should all vote to leave because someone can deliver a rousing speech and for no other reason.

""Every continent on this planet has grown over the past decade except Antartica and the European Union."

Maybe so... but it's missing the truth that half of our trade goes to the EU (based on a long term assessment rather than simply what happens today). Just because the EU has gone through a recession since 2008, (notice how they hand pick their dates?) doesn't mean the EU won't come back and be strong at a time when the Far East is looking rather sketchy right now when it comes to their economies.

International Trade in Services - Office for National Statistics

Trade with the EU is 52 billion pounds. Compare that with Asia at only 16 billion, Africa 4 and Australia 2 billion and you see how important that trade is.

Trade with Ireland alone is 6 billion, that's Africa AND Australia together. Ireland Switzerland and Germany are more than the whole of Asia.

To lose a small percentage of trade with the EU is far more damaging than losing it anywhere else.

:"And that means as long as we’re in the European Union, we cannot sign independent trade deals with non-EU countries."

This is false. At present this is the case. This doesn't mean it will always be case. If those who are Euro Skeptic were to come together and become a force within the EU, rather than just taking the money and then moaning about it, then maybe, just maybe, the Federalists in the EU would have a force to fight them, instead all there is is a force to moan at them.

"
"The EU deal with Australia is being held up because some Italian tomato-growers are challenging it.

"The EU deal with Canada is being held up due to an unrelated dispute about Romanian visas.

"How have we put ourselves in a position where we can’t do those deals?"

Then again the deals with the EU will be significantly BETTER than deals with just the UK, because as an economic force the EU is stronger. So, deals get held up because of issues. That doesn't mean that if the UK were alone it would make a better deal that would benefit the UK more.
No, all they've done is present the argument by taking a few issues they feel comfortable with and not assessing the whole issue.

This is a complex issue. Making statements based on only one factor of the whole thing is going to lead to a distorted picture. When the politicians are making distorted pictures then you know the people don't know what is right and what is not either.

""It’s not just the financial price of EU membership – it’s the democratic price."

They talk about Democracy. Yet the people have elected those in the EU parliament, people like Farage, and they do NOTHING. They sit there and take the money and don't try and make things better, don't try and push an agenda that would help the UK, no, they do nothing and moan. That's democracy?

""We fought a civil war in this country to establish the principle that laws should not be passed nor taxes raised except by our own elected representatives."

This is flipping hilarious. When the Civil War was fought and then Cromwell was put in power and basically became a dictator, it had nothing to do with THE PEOPLE deciding what was going to happen. After Cromwell it was Charles II back in power, and still it was only the rich who voted and played their political game. To bring the Civil War into this is just nationalistic bullcrap and has nothing to do with this debate whatsoever.

""And now supreme power is held by people who tend to owe their positions to having just lost elections: Peter Mandelson, Neil Kinnock and what have you."

Okay, there's an issue with how the EU is run. Should it be Democratic? No, I don't think it should. It just should be about the elected governments of each country representing the people so it doesn't turn into the USA, I mean, who would want to end up with an election with Trump v. Hillary? Jeez. That's be like having a choice between Gove and Gove's wife.

Again, the problem here is people like Farage who get paid for going to Brussels and don't represent the UK at all. They sit there and do nothing and then wonder why the Federalists have so much power.

That they bring up Kinnock, well, what does Kinnock actually do? Nothing in the EU. He was in the EU, but not any more.
What about Madelson? He left in 2008. So why are they bring up these people who don't work in the EU?

Beats me.

So here are a few things I can show you where they're manipulating people and distorting the truth, or just plain lying, either way it's unethical.

And who can say that the same trade wont carry on, just without the terms and conditions imposed by the EU. So the UK would not lose that as the stay lobby keeps saying it will. With it being a two way street the EU relies on the UK to take its goods, and if the UK leaves the EU will still need that market for its goods. The MEP's that support their parties will be the ones most vociferous as they will lose their wages and have to get a proper job instead. Some have screwed as much as £1 million out of the EU coffers. That is what the money goes towards the greedy fraudsters that are supposed to represent their countries, and not on bettering the lives of the people. The common market was a better deal as it made everything a level playing field and set wholesale prices for the growers that were fair. It also set quota's and the excess was stored against times of hardship, so the elderly of the EU would receive a pound of butter every week because there was a surplus and it was close to its "sell by date"

Yeah, sure. Who can say trade won't carry on?

Basically the British people need to vote and it's playing poker. You have so much money riding on this one hand. Who's to say the EU doesn't have two aces and the last card on the flop won't be another ace, and you've got a 2 and 6 and there's a 3 in the first three cards up.

You might win. You might lose.

Now, the people need to make this gamble. A good gambler knows his stuff. He knows the percentages, he knows the risks, he can eye up his opponent and see what's happening.

The British people need to be told the percentages. They need to see what the opponent is doing. They need all this information. And what's happening? They're not getting it. They getting "come on, he doesn't have anything, I know it, I can feel it in my bones, he's got nothing, you'll win, just go all in". That's bull.

If the British people make a decision, it should be made for the right reasons. Not because Obama moved Churchill's bust to a different room, and the Civil War didn't kill Neil Kinnock.

You make claims that MEPs who support their parties will be the best off. Farage's who career is on the line. If the UK leave the EU then he's out of a job. So who's to say that Farage isn't trying to make the stay camp do well while trying to make himself look good? What's in it for Farage? He's a politician too.

Where will UKIP go if the UK leave? Who'd vote for a party like that? Or are they gambling that they'd take over the Tories? The Express thinks so.

So, in the past things have been better with the EU. So why doesn't Farage and his buddies go out and try and restore this? Why don't they go and try and make the EU what we want it to be instead of just moaning?

And we are prepared to make this gamble, tighten our belts and ride out the storm. The stay brigade are doing their ostrich impersonation and hiding from the reality, so don't want to know about what good may come out of an exit. If the worst comes to the worst we could always create a new grouping that would be ran along Common Market lines and give the member states full control as long as they followed the rules for trade within the group.

 

[Phoenall]

The only way the stupid little englanders will learn is if they have to buy a visa to go to benidorm.

You mean like we had to do until recently.

The original plan was signed in June 1985 by 5 of the 10 UE nations. Then in 1990 the Schengen convention abolished visas forf travel between member states. Then in 1999 they became law under the Amsterdan treaty with UK and Ireland opting out

Good luck going back to 1999. The internet alone has globalized the world since that time so much, that separating yourself out of it is just asking to become a Mexico.

Like I said, little englanders want to give up all decision influence and play into the hands of britain's competitors. Bravo.

Not that long ago is it, just 16 years, and we need a visa if we travel outside the EU so no hardship at all.


Our neo Marxist politicians have already done that, which is why no British goods are available anymore. The British companies have been sold, asset stripped and names kept to fool American wannabee's and arab oil shieks. Names like Jaguar, Mini, Land Rover and Rolls Royce. All now in foreign ownership

That visa doesn't allow you to work or stay over 3 month. So much for your retirement condo. Hehehe.

Not really as I could move to the Channel Islands or the English Riviera. Nah I think I will stay in Gods own County and drink proper beer and eat proper Yorkshire puds and free range beef

 

[Phoenall]

If you knew what you were talking about you would be dangerous. The last neo Marxist government of the UK gave away our rights to make our own laws. So we became just another money pot for the EU to dip into as and when needed. WE WERE GLAD THEY DID NOT JOIN THE EUROZONE AS WE WOULD HAVE BEEN SELLING PARTS OF THE UK TO FRANCE AND GERMANY TO BUILD POWER STATIONS TO SUPPLY THE NEEDS OF MAINLAND EUROPE.

Ah, yeah, now bring out the attacks.

Did I think you would be able to stay on the debate? Not really, but I gave it a go.

About power stations, what the fuck are you going on about? Have you given up trying to debate already? Jeez, you've inserted almost no facts, you've proven nothing and already onto attacking. Well..... I thought your case was so strong, if it were, then you wouldn't resort to such attacks.

Brexit facts are a cloak to bring in a Little Englander white anglo saxon agenda.Thousands of people could lose their jobs but that is just collateral damage and anyway they can take all those jobs the "darkies" did before we booted them out.

Charming. You've injected race into this discussion, you seem intent on that, and totally needlessly. Unless, of course, you have to, because you're not confident of your stance ?

This is understandable ......

C'mon..................... Brexit is all about race. Try making a case without mentioning immigration.

You're saying that anyone of another nationality isn't of the same race as many here in the UK ??

For example, there are no white, caucasian, people in Poland ? France ? Germany ? Italy ? Belgium ? Shall I go on ?

This isn't about race (much though you wish you could legitimately claim it was). It's about people of other nationalities, from other cultures, who are allowed to feel that they have a 'free pass' to settle down here in the UK, regardless of numbers coming to these shores, and regardless of our capacity (and willingness !!) to take them all ... which, it seems, we will be learning a lot more of in the coming weeks !

Why haven't you yet tried to tell us how many immigrants here would be TOO MANY for us to take ? Is it because, in your world, the UK has an infinite capacity to take everyone ??

To tainted tommy and his fellow neo Marxist goons there can never be too many immigrants. That is until they take over and then he and his fellow neo Marxists will demand the opposition do something about it.

 

[Phoenall]

It is very easy unless you are one of the indigenous that has worked all their lives and find themselves unemployed because of EU meddling. The migrants have government funded quango's that will fill out the paperwork, get the details and submit the claim. Try using them as in indigenous and you will be expelled aggressively. The migrants are given first place in the queue when in comes to housing and health, and you caqn tell when the latest batch have been allocated to an area as brand new kitchen goods appear on gumtree and car boot sales. Then they will move to another area and claim the same again

I remember a local left wing politician being asked at a public meeting if it was true that the council ( local government ) was giving the recent Iraqi migrants fully furnished social housing complete with the latest kitchen appliances, T.V's, computer games and cell phones. He answered that the council was not funding any such thing. After the meeting he was sat in a club drinking whiskey as was his normal behaviour and he let slip that he was glad no one asked if central government was funding it as he would have to have answered YES.

The problems started in the late 1960's early 1970's when we took in Ugandan refugee's and muslim lawyers filled out the forms for them to get everything they could with a commission of 15% for as long as they received the monies.

Again, as I've stated, there are ways of dealing with such a thing and still being in the EU. This isn't about the EU, this is about the UK govt being unable to make laws that work.

If migrants are given first place in the queue now, why wouldn't they be given first place in the queue once the UK leaves the EU? It's not the EU that's putting them in first place you know. The EU actually has almost no power in the UK. The UK govt decides what to do and what not to do based on pressure from the EU. The UK govt could tell the EU to get stuffed, or it could make more intelligent laws that allow them to do as they wish.

Yes, the problem started ages ago. And it had NOTHING to do with the EU.

So while you bring very valid points for things that are severely wrong with the UK and how it is governed, it doesn't have much to do with the EU.

This is a problem. People are associating the immigration crisis with the EU. I don't. I associate it with poor governance, both from Labour and the Tories (though more Labour than Tories), on this issue.

If you knew what you were talking about you would be dangerous. The last neo Marxist government of the UK gave away our rights to make our own laws. So we became just another money pot for the EU to dip into as and when needed. WE WERE GLAD THEY DID NOT JOIN THE EUROZONE AS WE WOULD HAVE BEEN SELLING PARTS OF THE UK TO FRANCE AND GERMANY TO BUILD POWER STATIONS TO SUPPLY THE NEEDS OF MAINLAND EUROPE.

Ah, yeah, now bring out the attacks.

Did I think you would be able to stay on the debate? Not really, but I gave it a go.

About power stations, what the fuck are you going on about? Have you given up trying to debate already? Jeez, you've inserted almost no facts, you've proven nothing and already onto attacking. Well..... I thought your case was so strong, if it were, then you wouldn't resort to such attacks.

The usual LIES when you cant keep track of reality, just look at Greece, Portugal and Ireland that have all faced swinging cuts to balance the books because of stupid governments in the past. The Greeks were on the verge of having to sell its land to pay the debts imposed by the EU. The only interest shown was for the lucrative holiday destinations and the uninhabited islands. Work it out ?

No, you've jumped to a different topic that doesn't have anything to do with power stations.

Look, Greece shouldn't have been allowed into the EU, it was a mistake of great proportions that the Greek govt made as much as the EU made.

Greece has been run badly by the Greek government. So that isn't an EU issue.

Ireland had cuts because of a recession which affected many of its new industries, like computing.

Portugal is just a poor country and relies a lot on tourism.

So what's your point?

That the EU took in all the lame ducks and expected the rest of the nations to bail them out. Then they could hold the lame ducks to ransom and force them to become slaves of the regime. The first step would be to relax EU laws regarding pollution controls and ecology fines for the lame ducks so they could build power stations and filthy industrial complexes. But the costs would be factored into the loan agreement that they could never pay of.