Brexit

[Tilly]

How to waste £6 billion: a story of 'Wales in Europe'


.....'Objective 1' was a massive programme funded by the EU Commission and designed to alleviate poverty and promote economic growth in those European regions which had been hardest hit by the decline of heavy industry from the mid- 20th century onwards. Defining the exact geographical boundaries of these areas proved to be controversial and difficult- since even the poorest regions have pockets of comparative prosperity. In the case of Wales some politicians seemed to want the whole country defined as a disaster area and therefore a suitable recipient for Objective 1 monies.

Eventually, the south Wales valleys and west Wales were declared the winners in the contest to be top of the misery league. And there was enough evidence of socio-economic trauma to support that judgement. The money started to roll in, and the magnitude of the sums are worth dwelling on. £1.2 billion in 2000-6 was matched, under EU rules, by an equal amount from the Welsh Assembly and UK government. 'Objective 1' carried on under a new name from 2006 onwards,with the EU's 'Convergence' programme producing £1bn of European Regional Development Fund (ERDF) money together with £690 million from the European Social Fund ( ESF). This again was matched by Assembly and UK government sources to produce a total of some £3.5 billion. So from 2000 onwards an aid package amounting to a little under £6 billion in its entirety was spent on the worthy and necessary goal of economic development in the Valleys and West Wales.

The recent release of data measuring GDP in these regions means we can calculate the effectiveness of the aid programme. In 2005 GDP per head of the population in the two areas, and expressed as a percentage of the European average, was 79%. The real shocker of a statistic is the fact that in 2009 things had got far worse- and that the same analysis yielded a GDP which was 68.4% of the Euro average. Northern Ireland and Scotland- areas which usually compete with Wales as under-performing economies- weigh in at 83% and 107.5% respectively for 2009. Scotland therefore seems to be pulling away from the all European average, and is not far off the figure for the UK as a whole. In 2009 GDP per head of the population in the UK was 110.7% of the Euro-average.

Statistics: Scotland appears to be pulling away from the European average

What went wrong in Wales ? It is not possible to plead, as Welsh politicians have been doing, that the recession hit hard. The downturn was an all-European phenomenon in 2008-9. And the European average GDP diminished accordingly. What we have here therefore is a comparison with other European areas which have also suffered because of the recession. Other European regions which qualified for Objective 1 status and the Convergence programme money managed to increase their GDP percentages and get closer to the EU average. The south Wales valleys and west Wales join just three other instances where that did not happen- and where the economy deteriorated despite the aid package: Malta, two regions of Portugal, and four areas in southern Italy. Greece has become, most unfairly, a whipping boy recently for the failure in European economic and fiscal strategy.But it's worth pointing out that all the Greek regions did better than the two Welsh ones...

The £6 billion that was wasted should, in any wellrun country, be the subject of a government inquiry. But since it was the Welsh Assembly government that administered the money that will not be happening any time soon. About two-thirds of the Objective 1 money went to projects run by Assembly government's own organisations and by Local Authorities, and £190 million was spent on training and educational courses run by Wales's further and higher education bodies. Once it disappeared within the winding ways of that bureaucracy the money was just used to keep the training and skill organisations in business - the very organisations that are part of the Welsh economic problem...

How to waste £6 billion: a story of 'Wales in Europe'

 

[Decus]

Wales is lost without the massive welfare provided by the EU. No hope and no ambition seem to be part of the Welsh culture. Maybe it's time to reopen the coal mines:

"The overall investment in regeneration since then is incalculable. Many billions have been spent and continue to be spent in the effort to stem the changing economic tide."


"And the result of all these efforts? The Valleys are now the largest severely deprived area in the UK, with among the highest levels of economic inactivity, lowest standards of educational attainment, worst health and shortest life expectancy."

'Clear the Valleys? I'm saying nothing of the sort...'

.

 

[frigidweirdo]

You havent seen the characters leading the "out" campaign. They have zero credibility.

The Scots and Welsh will vote to stay in and so will people who work in the private sector. The outers make a lot of noise but it doesnt tally with support. Bottom line is that leaving would be a disaster for the economy and nobody wants that.

Gove backed the out campaign, that's the last thing they needed, a total and utter crackpot of a man on their side.

 

[eagle1462010]

Wales is lost without the massive welfare provided by the EU. No hope and no ambition seem to be part of the Welsh culture. Maybe it's time to reopen the coal mines:

"The overall investment in regeneration since then is incalculable. Many billions have been spent and continue to be spent in the effort to stem the changing economic tide."


"And the result of all these efforts? The Valleys are now the largest severely deprived area in the UK, with among the highest levels of economic inactivity, lowest standards of educational attainment, worst health and shortest life expectancy."

'Clear the Valleys? I'm saying nothing of the sort...'

.

LOL

And so it begins.........without the EU you are doomed...............

LOL

Same tactics as always................If the UK returns to the Pound they will have their own central bank again that will rise or fall on their on accord..................Not having to pander to the IMF and the EU for permission on their own path.....................

If the welsh are screwed.......they are screwed.........doesn't matter which central bank gets to hit the enter key for a loan to save them................Like the IMF banks really have that money to begin with............LOL

 

[eagle1462010]

 

[eagle1462010]

Rut Ro.............here comes the IMF.............

LOOK OUT...............

 

[eagle1462010]

 

[Decus]

Wales is lost without the massive welfare provided by the EU. No hope and no ambition seem to be part of the Welsh culture. Maybe it's time to reopen the coal mines:

"The overall investment in regeneration since then is incalculable. Many billions have been spent and continue to be spent in the effort to stem the changing economic tide."


"And the result of all these efforts? The Valleys are now the largest severely deprived area in the UK, with among the highest levels of economic inactivity, lowest standards of educational attainment, worst health and shortest life expectancy."

'Clear the Valleys? I'm saying nothing of the sort...'

.

LOL

And so it begins.........without the EU you are doomed...............

LOL

Same tactics as always................If the UK returns to the Pound they will have their own central bank again that will rise or fall on their on accord..................Not having to pander to the IMF and the EU for permission on their own path.....................

If the welsh are screwed.......they are screwed.........doesn't matter which central bank gets to hit the enter key for a loan to save them................Like the IMF banks really have that money to begin with............LOL

You said: "If the UK returns to the Pound". The UK has never "left" the Pound (it never switched to the Euro). The Bank of England is also the central bank of the UK. Not sure if you understand the dynamics at work.

.

.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Invoking nationalistic stuff instead of an argument. The leave the EU side is worse than the stay in the EU side for the most part. The Express is always coming out with "the Euro's going to die this year" and has been peddling this crap for a decade already, and every year they're wrong, and every year they come back.

That's not to say there aren't some seriously bad points to the EU, there are, however the arguments for an against should not be down to one liners.

 

[eagle1462010]

Wales is lost without the massive welfare provided by the EU. No hope and no ambition seem to be part of the Welsh culture. Maybe it's time to reopen the coal mines:

"The overall investment in regeneration since then is incalculable. Many billions have been spent and continue to be spent in the effort to stem the changing economic tide."


"And the result of all these efforts? The Valleys are now the largest severely deprived area in the UK, with among the highest levels of economic inactivity, lowest standards of educational attainment, worst health and shortest life expectancy."

'Clear the Valleys? I'm saying nothing of the sort...'

.

LOL

And so it begins.........without the EU you are doomed...............

LOL

Same tactics as always................If the UK returns to the Pound they will have their own central bank again that will rise or fall on their on accord..................Not having to pander to the IMF and the EU for permission on their own path.....................

If the welsh are screwed.......they are screwed.........doesn't matter which central bank gets to hit the enter key for a loan to save them................Like the IMF banks really have that money to begin with............LOL

You said: "If the UK returns to the Pound". The UK has never "left" the Pound (it never switched to the Euro). The Bank of England is also the central bank of the UK. Not sure if you understand the dynamics at work.

.

.

Oops............oh well.........sue me..................

Makes it easier to get out of the EU then.............

My point still stands that if the Welsh are screwed they are screwed either way...............the UK shouldn't let a foreign ruler decide their ways and laws.

 

[eagle1462010]

Invoking nationalistic stuff instead of an argument. The leave the EU side is worse than the stay in the EU side for the most part. The Express is always coming out with "the Euro's going to die this year" and has been peddling this crap for a decade already, and every year they're wrong, and every year they come back.

That's not to say there aren't some seriously bad points to the EU, there are, however the arguments for an against should not be down to one liners.

I beg to differ...........Nationalism is the core of this dispute.

 

[eagle1462010]

Imagine no EU....................

 

[Decus]

Wales is lost without the massive welfare provided by the EU. No hope and no ambition seem to be part of the Welsh culture. Maybe it's time to reopen the coal mines:

"The overall investment in regeneration since then is incalculable. Many billions have been spent and continue to be spent in the effort to stem the changing economic tide."


"And the result of all these efforts? The Valleys are now the largest severely deprived area in the UK, with among the highest levels of economic inactivity, lowest standards of educational attainment, worst health and shortest life expectancy."

'Clear the Valleys? I'm saying nothing of the sort...'

.

LOL

And so it begins.........without the EU you are doomed...............

LOL

Same tactics as always................If the UK returns to the Pound they will have their own central bank again that will rise or fall on their on accord..................Not having to pander to the IMF and the EU for permission on their own path.....................

If the welsh are screwed.......they are screwed.........doesn't matter which central bank gets to hit the enter key for a loan to save them................Like the IMF banks really have that money to begin with............LOL

You said: "If the UK returns to the Pound". The UK has never "left" the Pound (it never switched to the Euro). The Bank of England is also the central bank of the UK. Not sure if you understand the dynamics at work.

.

.

Oops............oh well.........sue me..................

Makes it easier to get out of the EU then.............

My point still stands that if the Welsh are screwed they are screwed either way...............the UK shouldn't let a foreign ruler decide their ways and laws.

My observation regarding the Welsh wasn't an argument for the British to stay in the EU. The op argued that billions of Euros hadn't been given to Wales. I simply pointed out that not only had billions been given to the Welsh but this massive infusion of welfare failed to produce a positive impact.

The Welsh are increasingly dependent on welfare and will continue to be irrespective of whether the UK stays in the EU or not.

.

 

[eagle1462010]

Again............Imagine no EU...............no UK........................

 

[eagle1462010]

Wales is lost without the massive welfare provided by the EU. No hope and no ambition seem to be part of the Welsh culture. Maybe it's time to reopen the coal mines:

"The overall investment in regeneration since then is incalculable. Many billions have been spent and continue to be spent in the effort to stem the changing economic tide."


"And the result of all these efforts? The Valleys are now the largest severely deprived area in the UK, with among the highest levels of economic inactivity, lowest standards of educational attainment, worst health and shortest life expectancy."

'Clear the Valleys? I'm saying nothing of the sort...'

.

LOL

And so it begins.........without the EU you are doomed...............

LOL

Same tactics as always................If the UK returns to the Pound they will have their own central bank again that will rise or fall on their on accord..................Not having to pander to the IMF and the EU for permission on their own path.....................

If the welsh are screwed.......they are screwed.........doesn't matter which central bank gets to hit the enter key for a loan to save them................Like the IMF banks really have that money to begin with............LOL

You said: "If the UK returns to the Pound". The UK has never "left" the Pound (it never switched to the Euro). The Bank of England is also the central bank of the UK. Not sure if you understand the dynamics at work.

.

.

Oops............oh well.........sue me..................

Makes it easier to get out of the EU then.............

My point still stands that if the Welsh are screwed they are screwed either way...............the UK shouldn't let a foreign ruler decide their ways and laws.

My observation regarding the Welsh wasn't an argument for the British to stay in the EU. The op argued that billions of Euros hadn't been given to Wales. I simply pointed out that not only had billions been given to the Welsh but this massive infusion of welfare failed to produce a positive impact.

The Welsh are increasingly dependent on welfare and will continue to be irrespective of whether the UK stays in the EU or not.

.

We have the same problem here......................It matters not..............the issue is should the UK rule themselves or be ruled by an EU parliament.

 

[Lucy Hamilton]

Where is this mythical £6bn nazi girl ?

 

[Lucy Hamilton]

German poll finds one in three firms would leave UK after Brexit
This is the basis of my confidence. People may have some concerns about immigration but the danger of losing your job outweighs that.
When you add in the companies from the US,China,Canada, India and so on. They have all set up in the UK to give them access to the EU.If the UK leaves then so might they.
Who is going to take that risk?
Remember that as we get closer to the vote the louder these voices will become.

They used the same tactic in Scotlnd last year.

This sums up the feelings of many. There is nothing to get excited abut here.

Can we sustain a black hole in our health care budget caused by those who have never paid in and have no intention of paying in. The latest forecast is for the NHS to collapse under the strain and for the migrants to still keep demanding treatment. We are paying £4 million a week in some London hospitals for translation services that could be better used on proper health care. We are seeing the disabled and frail having to struggle because migrants are taking all the social services time and money. And most telling of all we see housing stock being given to migrants who then destroy it and sell the brand new white goods to pay their families back home. We cant afford the EU anymore, just as we cant afford the greedy, lazy, ungrateful racist scots and welsh who see the English as their personal bank accounts. So let the EU sink under its own weight and take the scots and welsh with it, England will prevail as it always has and come out on top.


The feelings of the majority is that the EU is overran with neo Marxists who don't care about anything but their champagne lifestyles. So they want out before we are destroyed and become Europes prison island

You see when you use such hysterical figures your whole case evaporates.And then the usual racist agenda becomes clear. Idiot.

 

[Lucy Hamilton]

If the UK likes being dictated to by the rest of Europe in the EU then they will stay............If not, then they will leave..............Personally, I think they lost part of themselves when they joined the EU.............They will be punished should they leave.............as this poster already stated...............

If you leave the EU......our companies will pack up and leave you.................Tis a threat now isn't it..........

Do you Brits succumb to threats like this...........................Or stand up and say we make our decisions and not you..........If you are unhappy here then leave.............

Grow a set............Regain your Nation.....................Don't do it..............bow down to your masters..........

I would prefer to be governed from Brussels than Eton. My interests are better looked after.
This pic was taken in 1987 not 1887 and there are a handful of cabinet ministers in it. This is the reality of Britain today where the privileged few shit on everybody else..

Lol. You are so jealous and bitter

Where is your holocaust, nazi girl ?

 

[Decus]

Wales is lost without the massive welfare provided by the EU. No hope and no ambition seem to be part of the Welsh culture. Maybe it's time to reopen the coal mines:

"The overall investment in regeneration since then is incalculable. Many billions have been spent and continue to be spent in the effort to stem the changing economic tide."


"And the result of all these efforts? The Valleys are now the largest severely deprived area in the UK, with among the highest levels of economic inactivity, lowest standards of educational attainment, worst health and shortest life expectancy."

'Clear the Valleys? I'm saying nothing of the sort...'

.

LOL

And so it begins.........without the EU you are doomed...............

LOL

Same tactics as always................If the UK returns to the Pound they will have their own central bank again that will rise or fall on their on accord..................Not having to pander to the IMF and the EU for permission on their own path.....................

If the welsh are screwed.......they are screwed.........doesn't matter which central bank gets to hit the enter key for a loan to save them................Like the IMF banks really have that money to begin with............LOL

You said: "If the UK returns to the Pound". The UK has never "left" the Pound (it never switched to the Euro). The Bank of England is also the central bank of the UK. Not sure if you understand the dynamics at work.

.

.

Oops............oh well.........sue me..................

Makes it easier to get out of the EU then.............

My point still stands that if the Welsh are screwed they are screwed either way...............the UK shouldn't let a foreign ruler decide their ways and laws.

My observation regarding the Welsh wasn't an argument for the British to stay in the EU. The op argued that billions of Euros hadn't been given to Wales. I simply pointed out that not only had billions been given to the Welsh but this massive infusion of welfare failed to produce a positive impact.

The Welsh are increasingly dependent on welfare and will continue to be irrespective of whether the UK stays in the EU or not.

.

We have the same problem here......................It matters not..............the issue is should the UK rule themselves or be ruled by an EU parliament.

The lion share of the UK economy is built around services and London's financial services is one of the largest, if not the largest in the world. The UK wants to maintain their leadership in this sector. The EU on the other hand seems intent on reducing the UK's dominance in finance. If an agreement can't be found to provide the UK greater control over its economy than I can understand a decision by the UK to leave the EU.

.

 

[Lucy Hamilton]

Looks like the referendum will take place in June.

It should end with a wide majority staying in the EU and we can put this crap behind us for good.

The uncertainty has cost the UK jobs and investment for several years.

Boiled down the "outers" case is that they dont like foreigners. Its not nearly enough to get people to put their job and security on the line.

Camerons "deal" is a load of bollocks. He has delivered nothing of value. But then again he didnt need to.

So raise a glass to more European integration and prosperity for all of Europe.