Zone1 Broad-brush reparations to all blacks is unconstituional

[Coyote]

Yeah, 70 years ago. The scale has titled in the opposite direction now. Now colleges bend over backwards to recruit and subsidize black applicants. Corporate America spends billions on DEI and hires applicants who will bolster their “diversity”. Being black is an advantage to your success in America today. Even our VP was chosen not on their merit but the foremost criteria was that they be black.

Has it? That is certainly the perception of one of our “grievance class” groups, but is it reflected in reality? If so I would expect to see more Blacks in the top executive ranks yet they are underrepresented. They are also underrepresented in Academia.

BTW, NO VP is chosen on merit. The foremost criteria is always political: what political groups can they bring to the ticket? Pence was chosen to give the ticket credibility to the Evangelicals. Harris was chosen to appeal to Black voters. The fact that it is race is irrelevant because they aren’t chosen for merit.

 

[Coyote]

Speakimg for myself, I said that the blacks in Dad’s college and Mom’s college, back in the 1940s and 1950s, all of whom received a free education paid for by the government, should be grateful to AMERICA for providing that life-changing opportunity.

And I don’t state that as a DEMAND. I state it as an EXPECTATION. I fully expect blacks in the 40s and 50s who got a free college education, courtesy of America’s taxpayers, are indeed grateful for that.

I suspect they are as well, along with every other recipient.

 

[el midgetron]

Has it? That is certainly the perception of one of our “grievance class” groups, but is it reflected in reality? If so I would expect to see more Blacks in the top executive ranks yet they are underrepresented. They are also underrepresented in Academia.

BTW, NO VP is chosen on merit. The foremost criteria is always political: what political groups can they bring to the ticket? Pence was chosen to give the ticket credibility to the Evangelicals. Harris was chosen to appeal to Black voters. The fact that it is race is irrelevant because they aren’t chosen for merit.

Why do you expect “blacks” to have equal representation within academia (a very liberal environment btw) and amongst the top executive ranks? And more importantly what reason do you believe accounts for this disparity? Frankly, most corporate executives seem to lack fundamental humanistic qualities that we credit the majority of the general population with. The pursuit of power and money are not the most sympathetic metrics.

How did we get to a place where the color of someone skin is at the forefront of their identity and societal value? Advancement and metrics based on the color of skin is the very same historical injustice cited for the continued harm to the black community. Should we try to make a right from two societal wrongs? Or should the mistakes of the past not be repeated?

 

[AZrailwhale]

My name is not Honey, please don't address me as such.

And as IM2 has repeatedly pointed out Black people have been paying into various system via taxes and other schemes that went to help support the white middle class while being excluded from benefitting from those same programs. Don't you remember in Hidden Figures when Dorthy's son was surprised to discover that Dorothy had taken the FORTRAN programming book from the "white" library and accused her of having stolen it. She hushed him and told him that she wasn't stealing the book that her taxes paid for it and that's when it REALLY clicked for me. Apparently the library for the Black citizens didn't think computer programming books were anything that was needed and we all saw how quickly Dorothy and her son(s) were kicked out of the white library and had the police called on them. Due to the racially discriminatory "separate but equal" BS, it was apparently an arrestable offense for them to be at the library and certainly to not leave it when they demanded that they do so.

I find it mind boggling after having just discussed with another poster his observation that being a racist is not a crime, at least not an arrestable offense, while being Black is.

Stealing public property is still stealing. Being black isn't an arrestable crime. It never was. Trespass is a crime and in the deep south a black or white being in an area designated for the other race was trespass. Although I doubt very many whites were ever called on it. A couple of years ago there was a big bruhaha at (I believe) Arizona State when two white students tried to study in a multi-cultural room at the college. The two black women made threats and verbally abused the two white men.

 

[AZrailwhale]

The EEOC settles most of its cases. There is always a risk when a case goes to trial as well as costing a whole lot more money. Then if you lose, you could be on the hook for the side's attorney's fees.

As they say, a bird in the hand...a settlement is still a win for the plaintiff.

Except the EEOC is usually the plaintiff, NOT the one being sued. The black woman could have gotten far more from a jury IF she had a reasonable case.

 

[AZrailwhale]

Wouldn't be out of my pocket. It will be out of the pockets of rich people, as it should be.


Except every black person in this country is STILL affected by slavery. It's a stain that won't scrub clean.



I would say any non-immigrant black would qualify, which would exclude Harris and Obama, if that makes you happy.



Yet the people who scream loudest about it like you, Hector and Lisa are racists.

The majority of taxes are paid by the middle class. Unless you are poor, reparations ARE going to come out of your pocket.

 

[AZrailwhale]

Has it? That is certainly the perception of one of our “grievance class” groups, but is it reflected in reality? If so I would expect to see more Blacks in the top executive ranks yet they are underrepresented. They are also underrepresented in Academia.

BTW, NO VP is chosen on merit. The foremost criteria is always political: what political groups can they bring to the ticket? Pence was chosen to give the ticket credibility to the Evangelicals. Harris was chosen to appeal to Black voters. The fact that it is race is irrelevant because they aren’t chosen for merit.

It takes decades to move up the corporate ladder into the top executive ranks. Give it time.

 

[Lisa558]

The majority of taxes are paid by the middle class. Unless you are poor, reparations ARE going to come out of your pocket.

And the majority of taxes are paid by the WHITE middle class.

 

[JoeB131]

The majority of taxes are paid by the middle class. Unless you are poor, reparations ARE going to come out of your pocket.

No, they aren't. 66% of the income taxes are paid by the top 20%. The rich will pay reparations, and we'll all be better off for it.

 

[Foxfyre]

Damages are presumed, just like they are presumed for certain torts although reparations are not civil law.

You know if everybody felt justified for compensation because somebody was mean to them or denied them something they wanted or was unfair or unjust or that was the case with their parents, grandparents, other ancestors, the world would be spending all it's time compensating each other for the 'harm' that was done.

To single out one group of people as due compensation on the assumption they were somehow harmed by the cultural norms of another era would be impossible to do justly, would be an exercise in futility and unwarranted and unjustifiable entitlement. Most especially when those paying the restitution will more often than not have descended from people who not only did not participate in the injustice but descended from those who risked or gave all to see that the injustice was corrected.

 

[NewsVine_Mariyam]

And you‘re trying to say that Jim Crowe was worse than the Holocaust because it lasted longer? OMG. Disgusting. There is NO comparison to the horrors and loss of the Jews who survived the Holocaust (and the 6 million who didn’t) to the restrictive laws of Jim Crowe.

Again Lisa, it's not a contest but if you want to make it one, chew on this. For Black people in America, centuries of slavery, Jim Crow and having the laws in your homeland denying you the same civil rights as everyone else which in turned allowed Black people to be put to death in a myriad of ways with no justice to be had for their loss of life - lynchings, bombings, being hunted down & murdered by the night riders (the Klan), etc. is equally as bad, if not worse to the people and the families involved than what was heard about what Hitler did to the Jewish people. That didn't happen here in America, to none of us and certainly to you. But the racial discrimination that Black people in the U.S. were legally subjected to WAS in effect when you all arrived on our shores and it remained in effect for several decades more.

The difference between us and you is that we have no problem at all acknowledging the horrors that were done to your people, however the holocaust didn't happen here in the country that we were born into and that your people made their own while fleeing persecution at the hands of the Nazis.

Have you ever considered the slaves packed in like sardines who never made it to our shores because they died in transit? You don't think that is comparable to the concentration camps where many of the Jewish people ultimately lost their lives? That was just one incident in the overall history of the horrors carried out against the Jewish people in Germany while those transatlantic voyages suffered by the slaves were just the beginning of centuries worth of subjugation and horror.

From everything that you've written you've in all likelihood have never faced adversity of any type in your life. In fact you keep going on about how your family obtained affluence so quickly which is definitely a telltale sign that you have had a relatively easy life. You worked in management ("of course") and claim that all of your family members worked in professional fields yet look how you treat others who have also been "legally" singled out and persecuted.

In my life, the Jewish people have been allies to us, I know I told you that the congregants of one of the synagogues that we have done protection work for so strongly believes that "Black Lives Matter" that they proclaimed this in signage that stands out by the name of the synagogue. One of the houses across the street from another of our synagogues has a Black Lives Matter in the living room window of their home. An interracial couple lives there who would always speak to us while we were working.

You are an unfortunate anomaly to all of the good that I know of and have experienced with the Jewish people. I can't even imagine any of them telling me or another Black person that our suffering at the hands of our own government and fellow citizens is less or doesn't compare to the Holocaust.

 

[Lisa558]

Again Lisa, it's not a contest but if you want to make it one, chew on this. For Black people in America, centuries of slavery, Jim Crow and having the laws in your homeland denying you the same civil rights as everyone else which in turned allowed Black people to be put to death in a myriad of ways with no justice to be had for their loss of life - lynchings, bombings, being hunted down & murdered by the night riders (the Klan), etc. is equally as bad, if not worse to the people and the families involved than what was heard about what Hitler did to the Jewish people. That didn't happen here in America, to none of us and certainly to you. But the racial discrimination that Black people in the U.S. were legally subjected to WAS in effect when you all arrived on our shores and it remained in effect for several decades more.

The difference between us and you is that we have no problem at all acknowledging the horrors that were done to your people, however the holocaust didn't happen here in the country that we were born into and that your people made their own while fleeing persecution at the hands of the Nazis.

Have you ever considered the slaves packed in like sardines who never made it to our shores because they died in transit? You don't think that is comparable to the concentration camps where many of the Jewish people ultimately lost their lives? That was just one incident in the overall history of the horrors carried out against the Jewish people in Germany while those transatlantic voyages suffered by the slaves were just the beginning of centuries worth of subjugation and horror.

From everything that you've written you've in all likelihood have never faced adversity of any type in your life. In fact you keep going on about how your family obtained affluence so quickly which is definitely a telltale sign that you have had a relatively easy life. You worked in management ("of course") and claim that all of your family members worked in professional fields yet look how you treat others who have also been "legally" singled out and persecuted.

In my life, the Jewish people have been allies to us, I know I told you that the congregants of one of the synagogues that we have done protection work for so strongly believes that "Black Lives Matter" that they proclaimed this in signage that stands out by the name of the synagogue. One of the houses across the street from another of our synagogues has a Black Lives Matter in the living room window of their home. An interracial couple lives there who would always speak to us while we were working.

You are an unfortunate anomaly to all of the good that I know of and have experienced with the Jewish people. I can't even imagine any of them telling me or another Black person that our suffering at the hands of our own government and fellow citizens is less or doesn't compare to the Holocaust.

The thread was already closed once due to personal attacks. Quit it and learn to debate without all the putdowns.

And I said the experiences of CURRENT blacks, who are demanding reparations, does not compare to the Holocaust. Neither does the experiences of those who lived under Jim Crowe. Doesn’t mean I don’t think it was bad, but to try to compare that to the horrors of the concentration camps is insulting to Holocaust survivors. You are minimizing the suffering of Holocaust survivors, who saw their families murdered and were starved to death,

 

[NewsVine_Mariyam]

/---/ Any Black can say they are descended from slaves. How do you prove it? How about those who are only partially Black, say 10%? What about other races held in slavery?

This is the Middleton Place in South Carolina. I met one of my cousins before she passed whose parents were born into slavery here. We can trace our ancestry to this former planation.

 

[NewsVine_Mariyam]

You’ve been warned repeatedly that we are in Zone 1, and your false ans inflammatory attacks are against the rules.

And you are so intent on “proving” me racist that you even said I am am a racist for criticizing the pro-Palestinians screaming “Death to Jews!“

According to your deluded thinking, I am a racisr because I have said bad things about Hitler.

Oh my God, Lisa is WARNING ME, what to do, what to do!!!

You get more and more absurd with each of your responses to me. In one of your latest posts you equated being Pro-Palestinian to being an antisemite.

Pro-Palestinian = Antisemite

The equation above is patently FALSE yet you believe it to be TRUE.

If it waddles like a duck, quacks like a duck... then the duck is racist?!?

 

[Lisa558]

Oh my God, Lisa is WARNING ME, what to do, what to do!!!

You get more and more absurd with each of your responses to me. In one of your latest posts you equated being Pro-Palestinian to being an antisemite.

Pro-Palestinian = Antisemite

The equation above is patently FALSE yet you believe it to be TRUE.

If it waddles like a duck, quacks like a duck... then the duck is racist?!?

Stop the personal attacks and silly mocking. Once more and you’re being reported.

 

[Lisa558]

You know if everybody felt justified for compensation because somebody was mean to them or denied them something they wanted or was unfair or unjust or that was the case with their parents, grandparents, other ancestors, the world would be spending all it's time compensating each other for the 'harm' that was done.

To single out one group of people as due compensation on the assumption they were somehow harmed by the cultural norms of another era would be impossible to do justly, would be an exercise in futility and unwarranted and unjustifiable entitlement. Most especially when those paying the restitution will more often than not have descended from people who not only did not participate in the injustice but descended from those who risked or gave all to see that the injustice was corrected.

Well put!

What is also very insulting is that in the eagerness of certain blacks to get money, we have blacktivists here making comparisons to living under Jim Crowe laws and suffering theough the Holocaust, coming out with lifelong and severe physical disabilities, stolen property, and murdered family members. In fact, IM2 said that Jim Crowe was just as bad as the Holocaust.

Now that is REALLY diminishing the experiences of Holocaust survivors.

 

[NewsVine_Mariyam]

Trespass is a crime and in the deep south a black or white being in an area designated for the other race was trespass.

If it's not trespass for white people to be there and trespass ONLY for the Black people to be there, then yeah, being Black is an arrestable offense.

 

[NewsVine_Mariyam]

Except the EEOC is usually the plaintiff, NOT the one being sued. The black woman could have gotten far more from a jury IF she had a reasonable case.

I have a friend who is an attorney as well as a forensic investigator. He told me a long time ago, anytime you can get the government to conduct an investigation on your behalf then it's usually a good idea to allow them to do so because it's free and anything they uncover during the course of their investigation you can use in your lawsuit.

 

[NewsVine_Mariyam]

You know if everybody felt justified for compensation because somebody was mean to them or denied them something they wanted or was unfair or unjust or that was the case with their parents, grandparents, other ancestors, the world would be spending all it's time compensating each other for the 'harm' that was done.

To single out one group of people as due compensation on the assumption they were somehow harmed by the cultural norms of another era would be impossible to do justly, would be an exercise in futility and unwarranted and unjustifiable entitlement. Most especially when those paying the restitution will more often than not have descended from people who not only did not participate in the injustice but descended from those who risked or gave all to see that the injustice was corrected.

Not everything that is unfair or even unjust is a violation of the law. Nonetheless when violations do occur this is exactly what we have to contend with - a bunch of people who will work fulltime coming up with reasons that the situation being examined is not or was not caused by racism. That's part of the reason I mentioned damages that are presumed.

Our government(s) are the main parties at fault because they created a society that legally allowed their white citizens to abuse, exploit and harm their Black citizens. Because it was governmental sanctioned racial discrimination and abuse, the proper remedy for the harm caused would be reparations.

My tax dollars go to all sorts of things I'm not behind but just like I stated previously, I don't get a say in how that money is disbursed. Hell, I don't have children but some of my money goes to programs to help other people's children. I don't cry about that because it doesn't benefit me directly so why all the angst against Black people potentially receiving something financial as a way for our government to acknowledge and make amends for the human rights violations that they sanctioned and allowed to go on for centuries?

 

[MarathonMike]

Why don't you take charge of your own life, face your own problems instead of talking down to people who are more knowledgeable than you are about the subject matter at hand.

You need to calm down, you got yourself all worked up over this reparations nonsense again. It is a non-starter. Period. And FYI I've been in charge of my own life since I was 18 which is why I am now a happily retired and successful American. I also treat everyone the same and call out bullshit when I see it. You bring up isolated incidents of Racism and falsely try to claim they are relevant to Slavery Reparations. That is absurd.