Zone1 Broad-brush reparations to all blacks is unconstituional

[Lisa558]

If calling someone and idiot is a personal attack, then everything blacks are being called here in this thread is one also.

I was called a lot worse than an idiot, by your compadre.

 

[MarcATL]

All I know is that there's a known Aryan male white supremacist that infest these types of threads pretending to be something he is not.

 

[MisterBeale]

If calling someone and idiot is a personal attack, then everything blacks are being called here in this thread is one also.

Please report all personal attacks.

 

[IM2]

Many were not Blacks.
. “Between 1492 and 1880, between 2 and 5.5 million Native Americans were enslaved in the Americas in addition to 12.5 million African slaves.”

And Indians owned other Indians as slaves.
Among some Pacific Northwest tribes, about a quarter of the population were slaves. Other slave-owning tribes of North America were, for example, Comanche of Texas, Creek of Georgia, the fishing societies, such as the Yurok, that lived along the coast from what is now Alaska to California; the Pawnee, and Klamath.

and of course Blacks owned slaves
In 1830, there were 3,775 black (including mixed-race) slaveholders in the South who owned a total of 12,760 slaves

In his 1985 statewide study of black slaveholders in South Carolina, Larry Koger challenged this benevolent view. He found that the majority of mixed-race or black slaveholders appeared to hold at least some of their slaves for commercial reasons. For instance, he noted that in 1850 more than 80% of black slaveholders were of mixed race, but nearly 90% of their slaves were classified as black

This is a load of garbage. The poster writes that there were 3775 slaves owning a total of 12, 760 slaves. OK, that's less than 4 slaves each. But let's examine what was said more thouroughly than the disingenuous attempt done here.

So what do the actual numbers of black slave owners and their slaves tell us? In 1830, the year most carefully studied by Carter G. Woodson, about 13.7 percent (319,599) of the black population was free. Of these, 3,776 free Negroes owned 12,907 slaves, out of a total of 2,009,043 slaves owned in the entire United States, so the numbers of slaves owned by black people over all was quite small by comparison with the number owned by white people.
So out of 319,599 blacks, 3,776 owned slaves. Thats just a little more than 1 percent of the freed blacks. There were 2,009,043 slaves owned. Whites owned 2,005,267 black slaves.

In his essay, “ ‘The Known World’ of Free Black Slaveholders,” Thomas J. Pressly, using Woodson’s statistics, calculated that 54 (or about 1 percent) of these black slave owners in 1830 owned between 20 and 84 slaves; 172 (about 4 percent) owned between 10 to 19 slaves; and 3,550 (about 94 percent) each owned between 1 and 9 slaves. Crucially, 42 percent owned just one slave.
It is reasonable to assume that the 42 percent of the free black slave owners who owned just one slave probably owned a family member to protect that person, as did many of the other black slave owners who owned only slightly larger numbers of slaves. As Woodson put it in 1924's Free Negro Owners of Slaves in the United States in 1830, “The census records show that the majority of the Negro owners of slaves were such from the point of view of philanthropy. In many instances the husband purchased the wife or vice versa … Slaves of Negroes were in some cases the children of a free father who had purchased his wife. If he did not thereafter emancipate the mother, as so many such husbands failed to do, his own children were born his slaves and were thus reported to the numerators.”

Moreover, Woodson explains, “Benevolent Negroes often purchased slaves to make their lot easier by granting them their freedom for a nominal sum, or by permitting them to work it out on liberal terms.” In other words, these black slave-owners, the clear majority, cleverly used the system of slavery to protect their loved ones.

Did Black People Own Slaves?

For those who are wondering about the retro title of this black history series, please take a moment to learn about historian Joel A. Rogers

www.theroot.com

The dishonesty in the arguments waged by most of the whites in this particular thread is trifling. There was 100 years of aparthiedd enforced by laws giving states and local governments the right to oppress blacks at their leisure. So to continue arguing as if slavery is the only issue is arguing a lie. And then if people want to pretend that Jim Crow was too long ago even as millions live today whowere born during JimnCrow or influenced by people who were, there is this:

Citygroup did a study focusing on U.S. GDP from 2000 until 2020.The study revealed huge losses in GDP due to continuing discrimination against blacks in business revenue, education, housing credit, and income.

“Closing the Black racial wage gap 20 years ago might have provided an additional $2.7 trillion in income available for consumption and investment.

Improving access to housing credit might have added an additional 770,000 Black homeowners over the last 20 years, with combined sales and expenditures adding another $218 billion to GDP over that time.

Facilitating increased access to higher education (college, graduate,and vocational schools) for Black students might have bolstered lifetime incomes that in aggregate sums to $90 to $113 billion.

Providing fair and equitable lending to Black entrepreneurs might have resulted in the creation of an additional $13 trillion in business revenue over the last 20 years. This could have been used for investments in labor, technology, capital equipment, and structures and 6.1 million jobs might have been created per year.”

In one analysis of the racial wealth gap I read it said that ending the racial wealth gap would create 9 million jobs for blacks. These reparations that you oppose (after whites gave been given no less than the equivalent of 500 trillion dollars in economic assistance from the government in the last century alone), would be used as venture capital by a lot of black people to create the businesses that end up creating those 9 million jobs. You guys talk about what you won't pay but you will continue paying for the marginal public assistance given because of your refusal to see the big picture of what reparations can do. Your racism does not allow you to see that reparations are indeed the solution.

 

[el midgetron]

And you know why IM2 xxxxxx says I’m not a Jew? Because he has no answer as to why my uneducated, immigrant grandparents arrived on this shores without a penny, and fleeing horrific and barbaric antisemitism, settling in walk-up tenements, and by the next generation their kids were all college graduates owning 5-bedroom colonials in the suburbs.

And my family wasn’t unusual. MILLIONS of impoverished Jews immigrated here under similar circumstances, and by the next generation, the kids are all upper-middle class. They achieved that despite the worst antisemitism imaginable, having their own parents and siblings murdered by Hitler, but STILL applying themselves and becoming successful within a decade.

IM2 has no valid way to explain how a persecuted, impoverished minority, not even able to speak the language, had “all the right stuff” to succeed, and succeed above average, so he reverts to ”Lisa lies.”

Exactly. The vast majority of our ancestors arrived here poor and hungry. They worked hard and made a better life for their families. It was not due to the color of their skin that they succeeded. Second generation Asians, financially outperform white people who have been here for generations.

Black people have a cultural problem.

 

[el midgetron]

Hey, the one thing I've seen in my life is that White folks only do the right thing, when black people riot and threaten to burn their stuff. (1968, 1992, 2020)

And you have a degree in history? White people are responsible for ending the universal-since-the-beginning-of-time practice of slavery. The philosophy of abolition came from Western Culture. White people fought wars to end slavery. The first people on the planet to abolish slavery were white people. And it wasn’t because black people looted a Footlocker.

 

[el midgetron]

The Japanese interrment lasted 3 years. Blacks had slavery and Jim Crow for 340 years. Jim Crow alone was 100 years So if Japanese got 25,000 for 3 years, blacks should get at least 25,000 x 33, or 825,000. You can quit pretending that signing legislation fixed the lost incomes creaed by Jim Crow. And then there is this:

 

[JoeB131]

The Japanese interrment lasted 3 years. Blacks had slavery and Jim Crow for 340 years. Jim Crow alone was 100 years So if Japanese got 25,000 for 3 years, blacks should get at least 25,000 x 33, or 825,000. You can quit pretending that signing legislation fixed the lost incomes creaed by Jim Crow. And then there is this:

I think your math is off. If Japanese Americans got 25K for 3 years, that would be 8333.33 a year. So if you multiply that by 33 years (not sure why you picked that number, exactly) your number would be $274,989

That said, living with bias is not the same as living in a hastily constructed prison camp with poor food and facilities. Its bad, and we should acknowledge is was bad and wrong, but let's come up with a sensible number.

Is the purpose of Reparations to make amends and acknowledge guilt, or is it to actually change the economic direction of people? Middle Class black people don't really need the money, they've already made it. Poor black people don't have the life skills to manage it, and you hear about poor people winning the lottery who are dead broke a couple years later.

“I can say for sure that happens because I did it. Before retirement, I was an Engineer. For the last 20 years of my career, I was a Manager and Director and I hired hundreds of people. I reviewed well over a thousand resumes for all kinds of positions. Everything from Secretaries to Engineering Managers. Both Salary and Hourly. I always culled out the resumes with Black Ethnic names. Never shortlisted anybody with a Black Ethnic name. Never hired them.

Since the Fortune 50 company I worked for had a stupid “affirmative action” hiring policies I never mentioned it to anybody and I always got away with it. A couple of times I was instructed to improve my departmental“diversity” demographics but I always ignored it and never got into any trouble. My stereotype is that anybody with a stupid ghetto Black ethnic name is probably worthless. I could have been wrong a couple of times but I was also probably right 99% of the time.

Glad I did it. I would do it again.”

He kind of has a point. I've worked with a lot of black professionals. None of them had names like "Jamal" or "LaKeisha". They had names like Corey and Tracey and Bobbi. Don't give your kids goofy names. That seems like good advice for anyone.

 

[JoeB131]

And you have a degree in history?

Yes, I do.

I'm also done talking to you.

 

[Lisa558]

View attachment 888080

Now he’s going by length of time rather than the depths of the bigotry. According to him, blacks should get more than the Jewish survivors of the Holocaust, because the latter only lasted a few years.

 

[JoeB131]

Now he’s going by length of time rather than the depths of the bigotry. According to him, blacks should get more than the Jewish survivors of the Holocaust, because the latter only lasted a few years.

Jews got someone else's country, and not even a country that did anything bad to them.

 

[martybegan]

Wrong. Because Jim Crow existed then and after the war blacks were forced to relocate because highways were built through black communities. You have no argument.

The Verrazano Narrows bridge cut through a heavily Italian neighborhood, so blacks weren't the only ones dislocated during the road push of the 30's to 60's.

 

[martybegan]

And then you can take it up with the Vatican, who will check their records and say, "Um, nope, we were never in charge of Naples!"



No such things as a religious bigot. Either you think the universe works a certain way or you don't. If your working off bronze age superstitions, you will be mocked.


Naw, we make the rich pay for it by rolling back the Trump and Bush tax giveaways.


Hey, the one thing I've seen in my life is that White folks only do the right thing, when black people riot and threaten to burn their stuff. (1968, 1992, 2020)

Standard lefty tropes from the standard lefty.

 

[martybegan]

I don’t see how that makes a difference if a law deprives people of their constitutional rights bases solely on their race/ethnicity. When Japanese Americans received reparation, it was the same whether they adults who lost assets or infants born there, who never had any to begin with.





Were reparations to Japanese Americans a payoff then?

Familial assists, and the reparations were limited.

The type described by those idiots in San Fran sure seem like it.

 

[IM2]

The Verrazano Narrows bridge cut through a heavily Italian neighborhood, so blacks weren't the only ones dislocated during the road push of the 30's to 60's.

Please STFU with your false equivalences.

 

[martybegan]

Your opinion is false. You have been shown cases where groups were paid reparations for things that included past wrongs committed in the 1800's.

ALL RISE!

This afternoons lesson:

Why Marty Begans opinion is without merit.

I am quite sure no one living in 1980 was alive when the U.S.government made the Fort Laramie treaty with the Sioux Nation or were participants in Custers violation of that treaty. Nor were they alive when President Grant decided it was OK to let settlers and people prospecting for gold tresspass into land promised to the Sioux thereby violating the treaty. No one in 1980 was alive when the U.S. government decided to take the land from the Sioux by military force. No one in 1980 was alive when the U.S. government decided to cut off supplies they promised the Sioux as condition for their surrender after whipping the U.S. Army at The Battleof Little Bighorn. But in 1980, the government of the United States decided reparations were due to the Sioux Nation for what was done to them in the 1800’s. They awarded the Sioux nation 105 million dollars..

United States v. Sioux Nation of Indians :: 448 U.S. 371 (1980) :: Justia US Supreme Court Center,

United States v. Sioux Nation of Indians, 448 U.S. 371 (1980)

United States v. Sioux Nation of Indians

supreme.justia.com

Marty, your opinion is a load of white race baited manure.

That was a specific treaty violation, and the treaty just didn't cover the parties alive at the time of signing.

Show me the treaty the US government had with former slaves. A Ratified treaty.

 

[IM2]

Familial assists, and the reparations were limited.

The type described by those idiots in San Fran sure seem like it.

Idiots oppose reparations. Your arguments against them do not make any sense.

 

[martybegan]

But it was fine for us to pay part of the equivalent of 500 trillion dollars of government economic assistance whites were provided by the government in the JimnCrow Era that blacks were excluded from. That's evil.

That's reality. Paying you off for it is just grift.

 

[martybegan]

The Japanese interrment lasted 3 years. Blacks had slavery and Jim Crow for 340 years. Jim Crow alone was 100 years So if Japanese got 25,000 for 3 years, blacks should get at least 25,000 x 33, or 825,000. You can quit pretending that signing legislation fixed the lost incomes creaed by Jim Crow. And then there is this:

“I can say for sure that happens because I did it. Before retirement, I was an Engineer. For the last 20 years of my career, I was a Manager and Director and I hired hundreds of people. I reviewed well over a thousand resumes for all kinds of positions. Everything from Secretaries to Engineering Managers. Both Salary and Hourly. I always culled out the resumes with Black Ethnic names. Never shortlisted anybody with a Black Ethnic name. Never hired them.

Since the Fortune 50 company I worked for had a stupid “affirmative action” hiring policies I never mentioned it to anybody and I always got away with it. A couple of times I was instructed to improve my departmental“diversity” demographics but I always ignored it and never got into any trouble. My stereotype is that anybody with a stupid ghetto Black ethnic name is probably worthless. I could have been wrong a couple of times but I was also probably right 99% of the time.

Glad I did it. I would do it again.”

This was said in 2020. According to you this was fixed in the 1960's. But it wasn't and you know it.

I see that quote a lot, but never with any actual backup to it.

 

[martybegan]

Idiots oppose reparations. Your arguments against them do not make any sense.

Grifters support reparations.