Can We Please Get Rid of the Pledge?

[SYTFE]

You haven't got the slightest idea of what my "position" is. Hell, you're too stupid to figure out that I didn't compose the article in the OP, yet you keep posting as if I wrote it. You didn't know the Pledge was written by a socialist, yet you are accusing "the left" of wanting to "make the roots of socialism take root." Hilarious.

You are the OP author and have stated nothing contrary to the position taken in that OP. There is little doubt you are a liberal socialist. Socialists have devolved considerably since the writing of the pledge.

I'm definitely a liberal, but I am not a socialist. I'm more of a capitalist-liberal. I just think the pledge is silly, that's all, and uncomfortably reminiscent of nationalist regimes.

 

[saveliberty]

Why are the goal post moved on a tradition?

I have no idea, why did you move them?

The Pledge has been changed 3 times, what was wrong with the original version?

For starters a socialist wrote it.

 

[Coyote]

The Pledge of Allegiance is not an expression of patriotism. It is a loyalty oath that one normally associates with totalitarian regimes. People who love freedom, should be appalled by the idea our children are being coerced to stand and declare their support for the state. This is the worst form of indoctrination and it is completely anathema to the principals articulated in the US Constitution and the Bill of Rights. I cannot imagine outspoken libertarians like Thomas Jefferson or Tom Paine ever proclaiming their loyalty to the state when they correctly saw the state as the greatest threat to individual freedom. Which it is.

Now I know that many people think the Pledge is simply an affirmation of their respect for the flag, their love for the country, and their gratitude to the men and women who fought in America’s wars. But that’s not what it is. The Pledge is an attempt to impose conformity on the masses and compel them to click their heels and proclaim their devotion to the Fatherland. That’s not how it’s supposed to work in a democracy. In a democracy, the representatives of the state are supposed to pledge their loyalty to the people and to the laws that protect them. That’s the correct relationship between the state and the people. The Pledge turns that whole concept on its head.

Now I’d have no problem if our schoolchildren recited the Preamble to the Declaration of Independence before class every day:

“We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.”

That’s great stuff, unfortunately, the people who run this country would never allow it. They’d never allow our kids to recite an incendiary, revolutionary document like that every day for fear it would incite violence against the state. What they want is “good Germans”, not revolutionaries, not freedom-loving populists, and not well-informed, critical thinking individuals who can see through the sham of their jingoistic propaganda. They want people who are going to follow the rules, do what they’re told, fight the wars, and perform their worktime drudgery for 30 or 40 years until they’re carted off to the glue factory. That’s what they want. Reciting the Pledge fits perfectly with this dumbed-down version of permanent indentured servitude. It provides the ideological foundation for bovine acquiescence to the demands of the state and the crooks who run it behind the tri-color banner.

The fact that institutions like the Pledge are never challenged in a public format, points to deeper problems with the media and the way our kids are being educated. And while I don’t have time to talk about that now, it makes me wonder where are the people to question these silly recitations that undermine democracy and personal liberty? Why are their voices never heard?
---------------------------------

Read the rest here:
Can We Please Get Rid of the Pledge?

Interesting perspective, one that I've shared for years but never bothered to articulate as well as this author did. Your thoughts?

You pansies pick the stupidest shit to whine about. Find your nearest safe space & take shelter pussy

Not "whining" about it, prison bitch boi. I found the article and I thought it was interesting and I knew it would get you guys riled up, so I thought it would be an interesting topic.

You are indeed whining about it. There is nothing remotely interesting about the Left's agenda to dismantle the America we all grew up in. Hiding behind the article is pointless. You posted it so own it crybaby

The America my grandmother grew up in did not allow her to work after marriage. The America my mother grew up in rarely accepted women into PHD programs in sciences, or allowed women to earn credit independent of her husband...the America I grew up in, is far better but we have yet to elect a woman president. Which America are we dismantling?

Why is electing a woman president so important to you?

Don't you just want the best president possible?

I could care less if the president is a liberal or a democrat. Black, yellow, Brown or White. A woman, a guy, a lesbo, or a homo


As long as they are fair to everyone, willing to compromise across the aisle, understand /follow the constitution , not a liar. Not corrupt and a strong leader..no big deal to me who it is


.

A woman in and of itself is not important. But there have been excellent women, who could have been elected but were not. So IS the best president being elected - when a woman can't even get past the primaries? Are American women so inferior that India, the British, even Pakistan elect a woman before we do?

 

[Moonglow]

Why are the goal post moved on a tradition?

I have no idea, why did you move them?

The Pledge has been changed 3 times, what was wrong with the original version?

For starters a socialist wrote it.

And the sun rises every morning, yet it has not changed...

 

[SYTFE]

I think any American should know the pledge. If they choose for whatever reason to not recite it, that is their right. Suggesting we all be banned form using it in public is truly a dark and dangerous direction.

If anything, there should be a new pledge written for the government to recite to the citizens, pledging their allegiance to democracy. Instead, it's the other way around.

 

[saveliberty]

I'm definitely a liberal, but I am not a socialist. I'm more of a capitalist-liberal. I just think the pledge is silly, that's all, and uncomfortably reminiscent of nationalist regimes.

Well if someone comes along and puts a gun to your head and tells you to say it, come find me and I'll defend you. In the interim, relax and just tell everyone you have a bad cold.

 

[saveliberty]

Why are the goal post moved on a tradition?

I have no idea, why did you move them?

The Pledge has been changed 3 times, what was wrong with the original version?

For starters a socialist wrote it.

And the sun rises every morning, yet it has not changed...

Interesting you think a sunrise is a tradition. Pretty sure I found your problem.

 

[Coyote]

....

Why are the goal post moved on a tradition?

I have no idea, why did you move them?

The Pledge has been changed 3 times, what was wrong with the original version?

Francis Bellamy's version is best

 

[Coyote]

You haven't got the slightest idea of what my "position" is. Hell, you're too stupid to figure out that I didn't compose the article in the OP, yet you keep posting as if I wrote it. You didn't know the Pledge was written by a socialist, yet you are accusing "the left" of wanting to "make the roots of socialism take root." Hilarious.

You are the OP author and have stated nothing contrary to the position taken in that OP. There is little doubt you are a liberal socialist. Socialists have devolved considerably since the writing of the pledge.

Why is some socialism so bad? It gives morality to capitalism.

 

[saveliberty]

Hey, I can clearly not quell the anger patriotism is causing some of you. We have a liar and another slightly more objectionable person running for the highest office in the land. Frankly, your hang ups are not high on my list of issues.

 

[Wyatt earp]

[QUOT

I'll admit I tend to look unfavorably on any American who finds the Pledge or the National Anthem or displaying the flag uncomfortable or annoying or offensive. All are such symbols and expressions of liberty and all this country was intended to stand for, I can't find any reason to want any of that removed. They don't hurt anybody and I don't understand how other people enjoying the symbolism should bother anybody if they don't.

Nationalism is disgusting. Expressing extreme pride in the state -- especially when you had no fucking say in the matter -- is disgusting. What sort of idiot takes that much pride in something they had no choice in? Oh, your parents happened to have fucked in the USA? Congratulations. Wow.

As the author wrote, anything reminiscent of a totalitarian regime is wrong. I know you love authoritarianism, so you have a hard time wrapping your head around this concept. After all, you're "proud" of something you had no say in.

This is the best paragraph in the article, "Now I know that many people think the Pledge is simply an affirmation of their respect for the flag, their love for the country, and their gratitude to the men and women who fought in America’s wars. But that’s not what it is. The Pledge is an attempt to impose conformity on the masses and compel them to click their heels and proclaim their devotion to the Fatherland. That’s not how it’s supposed to work in a democracy. In a democracy, the representatives of the state are supposed to pledge their loyalty to the people and to the laws that protect them. That’s the correct relationship between the state and the people. The Pledge turns that whole concept on its head."

You fucking communist bastard...


You have no God Damn respect for the men who fought for your God Damn freedom, saved the world twice in two wars..

Promoted freedom around the world, and brought the world into the 21 st century..


No other country on earth can say that, sure we have our bad points liberals and conservatives both.


But we are human after all

No nation in the history of earth can claim all the good we did..


You are a fucking piece of shit...

.

Way to fly off the handle there, ya loon. Talk about unhinged...

1. Not a communist, you drooling moron.
2. No one fought for "my freedom" since 1776, so shut the fuck up with your bullshit.
3. "Promoted freedom around the world," like how we did in Iraq you mean? lol
4. Get fucked.

1. You are a communist prick

2.No one fought for your freedom since 1776? Read a history book..you stupid commie pig.

3. The Kurds are not free ? Iraq don't have free elections?

You uneducated moron.

4. Suck my left nut..

Just a couple of thoughts here....

Communism arose, directly, as a result of the huge gap between the haves and have nots, and the rampant abuse of the workers and poor. In it's initial formation - it was good and just and needed. There was a lot of abuse if you weren't one of the entitled. It led to horrific abuses of course - but it's origins were legitimate.

Second - this whole thing about "free elections" is bullshit. As if that is the SUPREME marker of a free and democratic society. Without all the institutions necessary for democracy - education, equality, protection of minorities, an independent judiciary, a means to tackle corruption and a peaceful transfer of power - the vote means NOTHING.

Third - your left nut is far smaller then your right nut. Is this some sort of sucko bait and switch?

Saaaaasyy what?

Lmfao


Communism was flawed at the beginning , it was an ideology that looked good on paper to intellectual morons, but any 3rd grader who ever ran a lemonade stand. could of told you it was crap.

Free elections are as free as they can be, where else but in america you need an ID to survive, but to vote all you need to say your name is joe smoe in chicago and vote early and often.



.

 

[kevinleejackson]

Hey! Let's get of the old stinkin' flag and the antiquated traditions with it. Evolve is right! Replace it with a flammable, easy to light, flag with a big rainbow on it. Maybe a quad-racial happy face dead center. Instead of a pledge, we could stand, sit, crawl and all say in unison " There's a flag, let's burn it!" Yeah, that'd be about right you bleeding from...wherever, US hating, liberallies.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk

 

[saveliberty]

You haven't got the slightest idea of what my "position" is. Hell, you're too stupid to figure out that I didn't compose the article in the OP, yet you keep posting as if I wrote it. You didn't know the Pledge was written by a socialist, yet you are accusing "the left" of wanting to "make the roots of socialism take root." Hilarious.

You are the OP author and have stated nothing contrary to the position taken in that OP. There is little doubt you are a liberal socialist. Socialists have devolved considerably since the writing of the pledge.

Why is some socialism so bad? It gives morality to capitalism.

There is no morality in creating lazy and dependent people.

 

[Coyote]

You haven't got the slightest idea of what my "position" is. Hell, you're too stupid to figure out that I didn't compose the article in the OP, yet you keep posting as if I wrote it. You didn't know the Pledge was written by a socialist, yet you are accusing "the left" of wanting to "make the roots of socialism take root." Hilarious.

You are the OP author and have stated nothing contrary to the position taken in that OP. There is little doubt you are a liberal socialist. Socialists have devolved considerably since the writing of the pledge.

Why is some socialism so bad? It gives morality to capitalism.

There is no morality in creating lazy and dependent people.

There is no morality in sweatshops either.

 

[Lucy Hamilton]

You haven't got the slightest idea of what my "position" is. Hell, you're too stupid to figure out that I didn't compose the article in the OP, yet you keep posting as if I wrote it. You didn't know the Pledge was written by a socialist, yet you are accusing "the left" of wanting to "make the roots of socialism take root." Hilarious.

You are the OP author and have stated nothing contrary to the position taken in that OP. There is little doubt you are a liberal socialist. Socialists have devolved considerably since the writing of the pledge.

Why is some socialism so bad? It gives morality to capitalism.

"Why is some socialism so bad?"

Venezuela is the latest example.

 

[Wyatt earp]

You haven't got the slightest idea of what my "position" is. Hell, you're too stupid to figure out that I didn't compose the article in the OP, yet you keep posting as if I wrote it. You didn't know the Pledge was written by a socialist, yet you are accusing "the left" of wanting to "make the roots of socialism take root." Hilarious.

You are the OP author and have stated nothing contrary to the position taken in that OP. There is little doubt you are a liberal socialist. Socialists have devolved considerably since the writing of the pledge.

Why is some socialism so bad? It gives morality to capitalism.

It gives us lazy ass workers ..that's why it sucks, what's the point of education when workers don't have the attitude or will to go the extra mile.

What's the point of getting paid the same as a lazy ass coworker who lays out all the time and when they are their just britches and moans about management, crys all the time and doesn't want to do a Damn thing.

 

[Wyatt earp]

You haven't got the slightest idea of what my "position" is. Hell, you're too stupid to figure out that I didn't compose the article in the OP, yet you keep posting as if I wrote it. You didn't know the Pledge was written by a socialist, yet you are accusing "the left" of wanting to "make the roots of socialism take root." Hilarious.

You are the OP author and have stated nothing contrary to the position taken in that OP. There is little doubt you are a liberal socialist. Socialists have devolved considerably since the writing of the pledge.

Why is some socialism so bad? It gives morality to capitalism.

There is no morality in creating lazy and dependent people.

There is no morality in sweatshops either.

Then quit letting illegals in that work under the table, under cuts poor workers low wages already.

 

[Coyote]

[QUOT

Nationalism is disgusting. Expressing extreme pride in the state -- especially when you had no fucking say in the matter -- is disgusting. What sort of idiot takes that much pride in something they had no choice in? Oh, your parents happened to have fucked in the USA? Congratulations. Wow.

As the author wrote, anything reminiscent of a totalitarian regime is wrong. I know you love authoritarianism, so you have a hard time wrapping your head around this concept. After all, you're "proud" of something you had no say in.

This is the best paragraph in the article, "Now I know that many people think the Pledge is simply an affirmation of their respect for the flag, their love for the country, and their gratitude to the men and women who fought in America’s wars. But that’s not what it is. The Pledge is an attempt to impose conformity on the masses and compel them to click their heels and proclaim their devotion to the Fatherland. That’s not how it’s supposed to work in a democracy. In a democracy, the representatives of the state are supposed to pledge their loyalty to the people and to the laws that protect them. That’s the correct relationship between the state and the people. The Pledge turns that whole concept on its head."

You fucking communist bastard...


You have no God Damn respect for the men who fought for your God Damn freedom, saved the world twice in two wars..

Promoted freedom around the world, and brought the world into the 21 st century..


No other country on earth can say that, sure we have our bad points liberals and conservatives both.


But we are human after all

No nation in the history of earth can claim all the good we did..


You are a fucking piece of shit...

.

Way to fly off the handle there, ya loon. Talk about unhinged...

1. Not a communist, you drooling moron.
2. No one fought for "my freedom" since 1776, so shut the fuck up with your bullshit.
3. "Promoted freedom around the world," like how we did in Iraq you mean? lol
4. Get fucked.

1. You are a communist prick

2.No one fought for your freedom since 1776? Read a history book..you stupid commie pig.

3. The Kurds are not free ? Iraq don't have free elections?

You uneducated moron.

4. Suck my left nut..

Just a couple of thoughts here....

Communism arose, directly, as a result of the huge gap between the haves and have nots, and the rampant abuse of the workers and poor. In it's initial formation - it was good and just and needed. There was a lot of abuse if you weren't one of the entitled. It led to horrific abuses of course - but it's origins were legitimate.

Second - this whole thing about "free elections" is bullshit. As if that is the SUPREME marker of a free and democratic society. Without all the institutions necessary for democracy - education, equality, protection of minorities, an independent judiciary, a means to tackle corruption and a peaceful transfer of power - the vote means NOTHING.

Third - your left nut is far smaller then your right nut. Is this some sort of sucko bait and switch?

Saaaaasyy what?

Lmfao


Communism was flawed at the beginning , it was an ideology that looked good on paper to intellectual morons, but any 3rd grader who ever ran a lemonade stand. could of told you it was crap.

You have the priveledge of looking at it from hindsight. And yes, I agree it was flawed as an economic model - it failed utterly to take into account human nature. However - that doesn't alter the fact that things were so bad, for such a large group of people - that something had to be done, and if that something was communism, it was considered better than the status quo.

Free elections are as free as they can be, where else but in america you need an ID to survive, but to vote all you need to say your name is joe smoe in chicago and vote early and often.

.

Free elections are meaningless without the rest. Also...there is little to know evidence that there is any voter fraud in regards to ID. Even those defending the new laws have admitted as much in the courts.

 

[Moonglow]

Why are the goal post moved on a tradition?

I have no idea, why did you move them?

The Pledge has been changed 3 times, what was wrong with the original version?

For starters a socialist wrote it.

And the sun rises every morning, yet it has not changed...

Interesting you think a sunrise is a tradition. Pretty sure I found your problem.

I am sure you did, in the trash with yours.........

 

[Coyote]

You haven't got the slightest idea of what my "position" is. Hell, you're too stupid to figure out that I didn't compose the article in the OP, yet you keep posting as if I wrote it. You didn't know the Pledge was written by a socialist, yet you are accusing "the left" of wanting to "make the roots of socialism take root." Hilarious.

You are the OP author and have stated nothing contrary to the position taken in that OP. There is little doubt you are a liberal socialist. Socialists have devolved considerably since the writing of the pledge.

Why is some socialism so bad? It gives morality to capitalism.

It gives us lazy ass workers ..that's why it sucks, what's the point of education when workers don't have the attitude or will to go the extra mile.

What's the point of getting paid the same as a lazy ass coworker who lays out all the time and when they are their just britches and moans about management, crys all the time and doesn't want to do a Damn thing.

Out of curiousity...why is "lazy ass workers" worse than abused and mistreated workers?

I think the solutions are usually somewhere in the middle.